Players still not learning on illegal tackles.

[Torquemada 1420]

1) European Cup Final. LaR lose against Toulouse in a game they would have won but for a PI descendent centre (Bothia) trying to take Medard's head off and getting a red in the 28th minute.

2) Top14 Semi-final. Bordeaux lose against Toulouse in a game they would have won but for a PI descendent centre (Seuteni) trying to take Ntamack's head off and getting a red in the 58th minute.

It seems no mater how severe the consequences, some players are learning nothing about contact to the head a year on.

[Ymx]

Why do you feel the need to mention race (PI descendant)?

[Insane_Homer]

Seems like a French problem to me.

[laurent]

Torq has a few issues...

[Torquemada 1420]

Why do you feel the need to mention race (PI descendant)?

a) Because it was another similarity.
b) Because the very physical nature of the way PI players play seems to result in them being disproportionately involved in these types of incidents.

[Ymx]

So summing up your observations, and thread purpose.

So your thinly veiled point about “some players” you’re talking about PI players. Not French league players.

Specifically, PI players still don’t learn, even after consequences, and try to take head off their opponents.

[Ymx]

For the record, I’m not ruling out any possible correlation between PI rugby mentality and potential high tackles. Though, I would certain argue the deliberate angle of “trying to take head off” which is a pretty nasty insinuation.

But mostly, what the actual fuck do we stand to gain by having this shitty negative stereotyping thread along racial lines?

Im out…

[sockwithaticket]

Given we just had 2 bans for Exeter players over this, a controversial non-decision in the Quins-Bris semi and Tuilagi receiving a yellow after mitigation it's very much a live issue beyond PI players in the French league. Ref's in the Prem have been issuing yelows for things that would've been reds earlier in the season (especially Karl Dickson...). At various points in the season we've had incidents like Ollie Thorley's card for running face first into Rob Miller despite having had time to get lower and effect a tackle widely condemned by various pundits and players for being too harsh.

At the moment it's clear that coaches and players still view going high to stop offloads and passes out the tackle or to complete a two man hit as more important than not hitting other players in the head. It doesn't seem like red cards and bans are helping them get beyond that view.

The impending mass lawsuit from now ex-players and the example of those players' neurological struggles also don't seem to have done much to change the outlook.

They really don't seem to get that this could potentially turn into an existential threat to rugby as a professional sport. World rugby's action so far on HIA protocols, head contact sanction framework etc. go some way to mitigating their particular liability, but it's a sticking plaster for the issue.

[Kawazaki]

Tuilagi should arguably been sent off yesterday as well.

Is it a PI origin player problem greater than the total professional player pool average?

I think it probably is.

[Uncle fester]

When you look at world cups, the likes of Tonga and Samoa pick up more reds then other countries for tackling people in the head. Torq worded it clumsily but it is a valid point.

[Sandstorm]

I’m not touching this thread. No way.

[Un Pilier]

Given we just had 2 bans for Exeter players over this, a controversial non-decision in the Quins-Bris semi and Tuilagi receiving a yellow after mitigation it's very much a live issue beyond PI players in the French league. Ref's in the Prem have been issuing yelows for things that would've been reds earlier in the season (especially Karl Dickson...). At various points in the season we've had incidents like Ollie Thorley's card for running face first into Rob Miller despite having had time to get lower and effect a tackle widely condemned by various pundits and players for being too harsh.

At the moment it's clear that coaches and players still view going high to stop offloads and passes out the tackle or to complete a two man hit as more important than not hitting other players in the head. It doesn't seem like red cards and bans are helping them get beyond that view.

The impending mass lawsuit from now ex-players and the example of those players' neurological struggles also don't seem to have done much to change the outlook.

They really don't seem to get that this could potentially turn into an existential threat to rugby as a professional sport. World rugby's action so far on HIA protocols, head contact sanction framework etc. go some way to mitigating their particular liability, but it's a sticking plaster for the issue.

Sound post. I have nothing much to add but felt compelled to comment that imo Karl Dickson has a lot to learn if he is to become a competent referee.

[Torquemada 1420]

So summing up your observations, and thread purpose.

So your thinly veiled point about “some players” you’re talking about PI players. Not French league players.

Specifically, PI players still don’t learn, even after consequences, and try to take head off their opponents.

Bored of stupid c**ts like you seeking to be offended on others behalf.

[Slick]

When you look at world cups, the likes of Tonga and Samoa pick up more reds then other countries for tackling people in the head. Torq worded it clumsily but it is a valid point.

No, they get reffed completely differently because they are not tier 1, but that’s a different point

[Torquemada 1420]

Though, I would certain argue the deliberate angle of “trying to take head off” which is a pretty nasty insinuation.

https://www.youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=LQq8wEpeN3s

[Niegs]

Ash Dixon’s lucky-not-to-be-red hit in the Super showed that even more aren’t even bothering to adjust.

[Kiap]

Ash Dixon’s lucky-not-to-be-red hit in the Super showed that even more aren’t even bothering to adjust.

The "lucky-not-to-be-red" part of that is important because there have many (too many) officiating failures on it this season.

When guys are regularly playing on after making such hits without paying the price, well, what incentive is there in bothering to adjust?

No excuses either for refs bottling it in Super because a red card won't destroy the contest now. Offenders should be getting sent off (and vacationed) every time.

In terms of learning as per the thread title, this will start happening with players when the officiating gets it right. We really don't see spear tackles much now, for instance, and even minor tip tackles are increasingly rare. I'd also say there has been player adjustments with high ball contests of late.

Collision sports need to be doing this stuff now, lest they become massively financially liable in the near future.

[Niegs]

Ash Dixon’s lucky-not-to-be-red hit in the Super showed that even more aren’t even bothering to adjust.

The "lucky-not-to-be-red" part of that is important because there have many (too many) officiating failures on it this season.

When guys are regularly playing on after making such hits without paying the price, well, what incentive is there in bothering to adjust?

No excuses either for refs bottling it in Super because a red card won't destroy the contest now. Offenders should be getting sent off (and vacationed) every time.

In terms of learning as per the thread title, this will start happening with players when the officiating gets it right. We really don't see spear tackles much now, for instance, and even minor tip tackles are increasingly rare. I'd also say there has been player adjustments with high ball contests of late.

Collision sports need to be doing this stuff now, lest they become massively financially liable in the near future.

That's exactly the point Dr Tucker makes about the dangerous tackle framework and the need for consistency of application where severe penalties come into play. You can't completely eradicate high/dangerous tackles in a sport like rugby. Even with the best of intentions and practices, accidents will happen. But strict and consistent penalties are meant to 'nudge' players into more consistently using good technique.

I still have the Dixon hit in mind and there was no attempt to get low. I can picture his legs being fairly straight, slight bend at the waist, upward trajectory. Lazy, if not malicious (but it's the sort of big hit stance that people seem to love in League down there, especially, but which also still seems to be part of the culture in a lot of places - that would make Bone Crushers and Rib Ticklers highlights on RugbyDump back in the day) ... and it needs to be eradicated for the sake of the game, as you say.

[JM2K6]

Ash Dixon’s lucky-not-to-be-red hit in the Super showed that even more aren’t even bothering to adjust.

The "lucky-not-to-be-red" part of that is important because there have many (too many) officiating failures on it this season.

When guys are regularly playing on after making such hits without paying the price, well, what incentive is there in bothering to adjust?

No excuses either for refs bottling it in Super because a red card won't destroy the contest now. Offenders should be getting sent off (and vacationed) every time.

In terms of learning as per the thread title, this will start happening with players when the officiating gets it right. We really don't see spear tackles much now, for instance, and even minor tip tackles are increasingly rare. I'd also say there has been player adjustments with high ball contests of late.

Collision sports need to be doing this stuff now, lest they become massively financially liable in the near future.

That's exactly the point Dr Tucker makes about the dangerous tackle framework and the need for consistency of application where severe penalties come into play. You can't completely eradicate high/dangerous tackles in a sport like rugby. Even with the best of intentions and practices, accidents will happen. But strict and consistent penalties are meant to 'nudge' players into more consistently using good technique.

I still have the Dixon hit in mind and there was no attempt to get low. I can picture his legs being fairly straight, slight bend at the waist, upward trajectory. Lazy, if not malicious (but it's the sort of big hit stance that people seem to love in League down there, especially, but which also still seems to be part of the culture in a lot of places - that would make Bone Crushers and Rib Ticklers highlights on RugbyDump back in the day) ... and it needs to be eradicated for the sake of the game, as you say.

I genuinely thought England's approach at the world cup would see a sea change in how teams approached tackling. Eddie had clearly decided that high tackles were going to be huge in terms of discipline, so England tackled low and hard and drove horizontally. Curry and Underhill led the way but other players did the same. The result was pretty devastating defence that was safe, legal, and seriously fucking effective.

Shame it never caught on.

[ScarfaceClaw]

*cough* Owen Farrell *cough*

[JM2K6]

*cough* Owen Farrell *cough*

Who somehow managed to tackle well and legally during the world cup, proving he could do it after all.