War with Russia

[tabascoboy]

Will the usual gammon suspects on Twitter now be demanding we sink a few Russian ships then? "EU? Russia? We'l take them all on!"

Russia 'fires warning shots at British warship'

A Russian patrol ship and fighter jet fired warning shots towards a British destroyer in the Black Sea, reports in Russia say.

The Interfax news agency quoted the defence ministry as saying that HMS Defender entered Russian territorial waters near Crimea.

The UK's Ministry of Defence has not yet commented.

Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 but this has not been recognised internationally.

HMS Defender changed course after the warning shots, Moscow said. It said the incident happened near Cape Fiolent in the south of Crimea.

A patrol ship fired twice and the Su24-M jet dropped four bombs in its path.

The British embassy's defence attaché has been summoned to the Russian defence ministry, Interfax quoted the ministry as saying.

[Insane_Homer]

misunderstanding OBVS

Once Bojo gets a message to Pootin, via Baron Lebedev, of Hampton in the London Borough of Richmond on Thames and of Siberia in the Russian Federation, all will be fine.

[tabascoboy]

Apparently NATO ships patrol the Black Sea to provide security for Ukrainian merchant vessels. Crossing into Russian waters (if that did really take place) and ignoring warnings is a pretty stupid thing to do even by accident unless there was an emergency of some kind we haven't been told.

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

[tabascoboy]

The plot thickens!

Britain has denied Russian reports that its military fired warning shots at a UK destroyer in the Black Sea.

Moscow's defence ministry was quoted as saying that HMS Defender entered Russian territorial waters near Crimea while a patrol ship fired warning shots and a jet dropped bombs in its path.

But Britain's Ministry of Defence (MoD) said no warning shots had been fired at HMS Defender.

It added that the ship was sailing in Ukrainian waters.

British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said in a statement that HMS Defender was carrying out a "routine transit" and entered an internationally recognised traffic corridor.

"As is routine, Russian vessels shadowed her passage and she was made aware of training exercises in her wider vicinity," he added.

The MoD said the Russians were carrying out a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided prior warning of their activity.

"No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognise the claim that bombs were dropped in her path," it added.

Russia said the incident happened near Cape Fiolent in the south of Crimea and - according to a defence ministry statement to Russian news agencies - claimed the British vessel subsequently changed course.

[Enzedder]

I wouldn't recommend a war eh. Cool your jets, keep calm and carry on please.

[Ymx]

As always with Russia it’s just

[Insane_Homer]

The plot thickens!

Britain has denied Russian reports that its military fired warning shots at a UK destroyer in the Black Sea.

Someone at the Mail didn't read the memo!?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -fire.html

MARK NICOL witnesses bullets fly as Putin's forces target British warship after tensions boil in the Black Sea
After a second burst of enemy cannon fire I overhear an update intended for her captain that we have 'two hard-kill missiles effective'. For a second I wonder just what might happen next. Wars have started over less.

Amazing stroke of luck to have him on board during all of this and of course being allowed to freely report on it

[Hal Jordan]

Did anyone lose an ear?

[tabascoboy]

Amazing stroke of luck to have him on board during all of this and of course being allowed to freely report on it

And a BBC reporter as well.

[Insane_Homer]

indeed no truth to the rumours that dead cats were fired...

[Line6 HXFX]

In a conventional war, Nato Forces in Europe will be able to hold back the Russians for...















70 hours.

Best not get all "Rule Britania" on this huh.

[Niegs]

Did anyone lose an ear?

Seaman Jenkins reports he still has both!

[tc27]

The usual suspects going 'huh huh gammons' not asking whybthe Russians are mooching about inside Ukrainian waters?

[laurent]

In a conventional war, Nato Forces in Europe will be able to hold back the Russians for...















70 hours.

Best not get all "Rule Britania" on this huh.

Not sure it works that easily considering that a lot of the Russian arsenal is decrepit.

[JM2K6]

The usual suspects going 'huh huh gammons' not asking whybthe Russians are mooching about inside Ukrainian waters?

Probably because no-one has reported that the Russians were inside Ukrainian waters?

[Uncle fester]

Apparently NATO ships patrol the Black Sea to provide security for Ukrainian merchant vessels. Crossing into Russian waters (if that did really take place) and ignoring warnings is a pretty stupid thing to do even by accident unless there was an emergency of some kind we haven't been told.

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

To call it Russian waters would be formally recognising the annexed portions of east Ukraine as Russian territory.

[Lemoentjie]

Lol, would love to see the Poms and their tinpot armed forces taught a lesson by the Russians.

[GogLais]

Mixed feelings really. Of course the RN should be free to sail in international waters but we wouldn’t like if the Russians were swanning around in the Irish Sea.

[JM2K6]

Mixed feelings really. Of course the RN should be free to sail in international waters but we wouldn’t like if the Russians were swanning around in the Irish Sea.

Let's not be too hasty - are you saying there's a chance they might want to annex Ireland?

[tabascoboy]

Apparently NATO ships patrol the Black Sea to provide security for Ukrainian merchant vessels. Crossing into Russian waters (if that did really take place) and ignoring warnings is a pretty stupid thing to do even by accident unless there was an emergency of some kind we haven't been told.

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

To call it Russian waters would be formally recognising the annexed portions of east Ukraine as Russian territory.

Well, "disputed" waters making the point that we regard it as international waters - apparently we're going to try the same trick in the South China Sea too.

All about seeing who has the biggest

[Hal Jordan]

By-election coming up, rattle those sabres!

[inactionman]

Not sure what else the Russians would reasonably expect the RN to do, they can't have not noticed the rest of the world (maybe with exception of Belarus and other basket cases) don't recognise Crimea as anything other than Ukrainian, and failing to make claim to transit rights would set difficult precedent.

It's why the USN steams through most of the disputed areas in the South China Sea.

[tc27]

Mixed feelings really. Of course the RN should be free to sail in international waters but we wouldn’t like if the Russians were swanning around in the Irish Sea.

Well for a start they frequently do but various rules of the sea and straights conventions means they are not actually breaking treaties/conventions.

Lol, would love to see the Poms and their tinpot armed forces taught a lesson by the Russians.

Type 45 could have easily swatted down the Su24 fencers that were buzzing it

The usual suspects going 'huh huh gammons' not asking whybthe Russians are mooching about inside Ukrainian waters?

Probably because no-one has reported that the Russians were inside Ukrainian waters?

The indication is HMS Defender passed within 12 miles of the Crimea landmass. Most of the world does not recognise Russia annexation of this area and regards it as still legally Ukrainian.

[Niegs]

Whatever happens, I'm ready...

[JM2K6]

Mixed feelings really. Of course the RN should be free to sail in international waters but we wouldn’t like if the Russians were swanning around in the Irish Sea.

Well for a start they frequently do but various rules of the sea and straights conventions means they are not actually breaking treaties/conventions.

Lol, would love to see the Poms and their tinpot armed forces taught a lesson by the Russians.

Type 45 could have easily swatted down the Su24 fencers that were buzzing it

The usual suspects going 'huh huh gammons' not asking whybthe Russians are mooching about inside Ukrainian waters?

Probably because no-one has reported that the Russians were inside Ukrainian waters?

The indication is HMS Defender passed within 12 miles of the Crimea landmass. Most of the world does not recognise Russia annexation of this area and regards it as still legally Ukrainian.

Sure but they annexed it in 2014, it's not news that Russia considers it theirs. "Why are the Russian mooching around inside Ukrainian waters" is a silly question if by "Ukrainian waters" you mean "Crimean waters", regardless of what you think about the legality of it in the first place.

[tc27]

I think its salient that the UK alongside most of the world outside Russia's immediate sphere of influence consider the Crimea to be de jure Ukrainian and would consider being within 12 miles of the coast of said region to be Ukrainian waters - I mean its the entire reason NATO ships are in the Black sea and why Russia is assertively responding. All the reports not coming from the Kremlin mention this.

Talking about 'Crimean waters' is meaningless in this context - Crimea is not a sovereign state with a 12 mile sea limit.

[JM2K6]

I think its salient that the UK alongside most of the world outside Russia's immediate sphere of influence consider the Crimea to be de jure Ukrainian and would consider being within 12 miles of the coast of said region to be Ukrainian waters - I mean its the entire reason NATO ships are in the Black sea and why Russia is assertively responding. All the reports not coming from the Kremlin mention this.

Talking about 'Crimean waters' is meaningless in this context - Crimea is not a sovereign state with a 12 mile sea limit.

Yes, I know. But it's also painfully obvious. "Why are Russians in Ukranian waters!" is a meaningless statement when we're talking about the Crimea. Like it or not, it's de facto part of Russia now. Russian vessels being there and considering it Russian waters is entirely to be expected, right?

Talking about being in Ukrainian waters is only of actual interest if it's not the Crimean bit, otherwise it's business as usual for the last 6 years or so

[tc27]

The point of these freedom of navigation exercises alongside those in the South China Sea is to make the point that's there is not defacto acknowledgement of sovereignty. If you find the subject tiresome my advice is to avoid forum discussions about these subjects.

[tabascoboy]

All very well to make a point that we don't consider Russia's annexation in any way legal and the waters thereby still international and open to our ships but what are we going to do if a ship is actually fired upon? I doubt if Russia seriously want an escalation but it only takes one hothead on either side or a bit of carelessness for things to get ugly quickly. We haven't shown any true resolve to intervene militarily for several years after all, if we end up scuttling off under fire it only serves to boost Vlad even further and has our 1SL/CNS even got and /or given the authority from the PM to fire back if under attack?

Reality is that Russia (and China and US for that matter) can do what they want where and when they want but all we can do is buzz around like flies. I don't like it and none of us should tolerate that, but all we can do it seems is make token gestures and hope the consequences aren't worse than what we have now.

[JM2K6]

The point of these freedom of navigation exercises alongside those in the South China Sea is to make the point that's there is not defacto acknowledgement of sovereignty. If you find the subject tiresome my advice is to avoid forum discussions about these subjects.

Where did I say it was tiresome? I said it was just obvious, that's all. There's no point in acting like the news that Russia annexed Crimea and are acting like it's their sovereign territory is, well, news - it's not like the West actually did anything about it at the time! And that's why no-one's talking about "Russians mooching about in Ukrainian waters" - because everyone understands the situation that has existed for years now.

[Ymx]

Lol, would love to see the Poms and their tinpot armed forces taught a lesson by the Russians.

Why’s that?

[Paddington Bear]

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

Lol the absolute state of this

[tabascoboy]

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

Lol the absolute state of this

Yep, I know, ridiculous. But currently with each passing day the absurd and unbelievable seem harder to dismiss as merely the province of the hatstand brigade, and to think with proper rational reasoning.

Poll Q. How do you feel about your future?
1) Positive
2) Negative
3) Just fucken kill me right now ☑

[Uncle fester]

I think its salient that the UK alongside most of the world outside Russia's immediate sphere of influence consider the Crimea to be de jure Ukrainian and would consider being within 12 miles of the coast of said region to be Ukrainian waters - I mean its the entire reason NATO ships are in the Black sea and why Russia is assertively responding. All the reports not coming from the Kremlin mention this.

Talking about 'Crimean waters' is meaningless in this context - Crimea is not a sovereign state with a 12 mile sea limit.

I wonder would the Russians have tried this move with a ship from a different NATO nation?

[Paddington Bear]

The cynic in me wonders if if was coincidental it happened on PMQs day under orders almost to provide a distraction from Boris's weekly beasting...?

Lol the absolute state of this

Yep, I know, ridiculous. But currently with each passing day the absurd and unbelievable seem harder to dismiss as merely the province of the hatstand brigade, and to think with proper rational reasoning.

Poll Q. How do you feel about your future?
1) Positive
2) Negative
3) Just fucken kill me right now ☑

‘The Government are shit’ and ‘The Government have created an incident that if poorly handled would be an act of war against a nuclear armed nation to distract from Prime Minister’s Questions four years from a General Election’ are two very distinct statements.

[tabascoboy]

Lol the absolute state of this

Yep, I know, ridiculous. But currently with each passing day the absurd and unbelievable seem harder to dismiss as merely the province of the hatstand brigade, and to think with proper rational reasoning.

Poll Q. How do you feel about your future?
1) Positive
2) Negative
3) Just fucken kill me right now ☑

‘The Government are shit’ and ‘The Government have created an incident that if poorly handled would be an act of war against a nuclear armed nation to distract from Prime Minister’s Questions four years from a General Election’ are two very distinct statements.

Well yes, but I thought I'd made it clear I wasn't being entirely serious by alluding to the rush to conspiracy theories. I'll be less subtle next time then.

[Slick]

The point of these freedom of navigation exercises alongside those in the South China Sea is to make the point that's there is not defacto acknowledgement of sovereignty. If you find the subject tiresome my advice is to avoid forum discussions about these subjects.

Where did I say it was tiresome? I said it was just obvious, that's all. There's no point in acting like the news that Russia annexed Crimea and are acting like it's their sovereign territory is, well, news - it's not like the West actually did anything about it at the time! And that's why no-one's talking about "Russians mooching about in Ukrainian waters" - because everyone understands the situation that has existed for years now.

I think that’s the salient point here, no one did a thing about it at the time so to start puffing our chests out now in defence of Ukraine is a bit pathetic

[Sandstorm]

I think its salient that the UK alongside most of the world outside Russia's immediate sphere of influence consider the Crimea to be de jure Ukrainian and would consider being within 12 miles of the coast of said region to be Ukrainian waters - I mean its the entire reason NATO ships are in the Black sea and why Russia is assertively responding. All the reports not coming from the Kremlin mention this.

Talking about 'Crimean waters' is meaningless in this context - Crimea is not a sovereign state with a 12 mile sea limit.

I wonder would the Russians have tried this move with a ship from a different NATO nation?

Montenegro would fuck them up

[Blackmac]

Lol, would love to see the Poms and their tinpot armed forces taught a lesson by the Russians.

Do your mum and dad know you are using the computer.

[fishfoodie]

I think its salient that the UK alongside most of the world outside Russia's immediate sphere of influence consider the Crimea to be de jure Ukrainian and would consider being within 12 miles of the coast of said region to be Ukrainian waters - I mean its the entire reason NATO ships are in the Black sea and why Russia is assertively responding. All the reports not coming from the Kremlin mention this.

Talking about 'Crimean waters' is meaningless in this context - Crimea is not a sovereign state with a 12 mile sea limit.

I wonder would the Russians have tried this move with a ship from a different NATO nation?

Montenegro would fuck them up

Probably true. I don't recall the Montenegrin Navy having to set to sail .... followed by a fleet of tugs; for when they inevitably break down ?

The Russian armed forces, are largely a paper tiger; but that doesn't make their nukes any less effective as a deterrent against any conflict; & while their conventional forces, don't match up, unit to unit; they have lots of them.