Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[JM2K6]

Not sure I'm getting the love for Harris, three tackles and no metres doesn't exactly put him in front of Henshaw's shift (27m and 11 tackles). The game largely passed him by - primarily because of the approach from both sides.

[Blackmac]

Not sure I'm getting the love for Harris, three tackles and no metres doesn't exactly put him in front of Henshaw's shift (27m and 11 tackles). The game largely passed him by - primarily because of the approach from both sides.

12 is always making more tackles and metres than 13 in a game like that. I can't see what Harris did wrong. Two huge defensive tackles and very busy. Easily the best of the backs behind Henshaw.

[JM2K6]

Not sure I'm getting the love for Harris, three tackles and no metres doesn't exactly put him in front of Henshaw's shift (27m and 11 tackles). The game largely passed him by - primarily because of the approach from both sides.

12 is always making more tackles and metres than 13 in a game like that. I can't see what Harris did wrong. Two huge defensive tackles and very busy. Easily the best of the backs behind Henshaw.

I did say it was primarily because of the approach. I just don't see why people are claiming he was the best of the backs. He was, two tackles aside, just largely present. Henshaw was streets ahead.

[JM2K6]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

[Blackmac]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

Perfectly put. In years gone by I would have crawled over hot coals to watch these games. That is no longer the case and whilst I'm still interested in the outcome the actual games struggle to hold my attention.

[Margin__Walker]

I know they are keeping it simple, but boy is it terrible rugby to watch from the Lions.

Box kick, box kick, bomb, fumble, scrum, collapsed scrum, pen. Rinse and repeat.

No idea what Gatland does for the third test. Probably past the point of changing too much game plan wise. Few changes and hope they out muscle/out catch SA next time.

[Margin__Walker]

Jesus, he's a terrible winner too. Just enjoy the win fella and lay off the shitposting. This series can't be over soon enough.

[notfatcat]

Some god awful performances today.

Murray, Biggar, VdM, Watson and Hogg in thr backs should all be under pressure for their places. Watson probably keeping his spot.

AWJ, Conan, Curry at least from the forwards should be looked at being replaced.

Said on the match thread that we should stick Smith and/or Finn in. No point dying by a thousand papaercuts.

Got to admit that I think Watson was the worst of the back three. I wasn't counting but I think the high balls taken/not taken must have looked a bit like this:

Hogg - 5/3
Watson 0 or 1?/3
IrnDu 0 or 1?/2

Hogg of course missed the tackle for the Boks try, but Watson missed a tackle in exactly the same move, 1 tackle before Hogg missed his. You then of course have Watson's rotten potato of a pass which Hogg was getting crucified for earlier on tour.

All of the back 3 were mince to be fair, but Hogg wasn't clearly the worst. I'd make a case for him being the best of a bad bunch. Wouldn't mind at all seeing Williams in, probably for Watson, or IrnDu if the game plan is the same.

Funny how quickly the back three have gone from being such an area of strength to a big concern. Game plan doesn't exactly help them showcase their strengths.

Mate, Hogg was fucking shockingly bad. Doesn't excuse the other two useless cunts though. The trio were utterly pathetic.

[fishfoodie]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

Picking a coach who wasn't in a current setup was a moronic idea to begin with.

It was almost inevitable that he'd pick a number of players on how they were playing when he last saw them; rather than how they were playing before the tour.

Add to that a God awful anti-rugby game plan; & Bob's your Uncle !

[notfatcat]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

Picking a coach who wasn't in a current setup was a moronic idea to begin with.

It was almost inevitable that he'd pick a number of players on how they were playing when he last saw them; rather than how they were playing before the tour.

Add to that a God awful anti-rugby game plan; & Bob's your Uncle !

I disagree. Gatland was the best choice by a country mile considering his Lions experience.

[Begbie]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

[Yr Alban]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

Wow, hell officially froze over.

TBH they have to do something different. Trying to play SA’s game didn’t work, so they need to get the backs involved. That means Russell or Smith, and it would be a hell of a game to drop Smith into.

[Lobby]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

I bailed at half time yesterday, having already sat through 60 minutes of one of the worst games I have ever seen. If the Lions are going to play the same brand of turgid anti-rugby in the next test, I’m not sure I can be bothered to watch at all.

[tc27]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

Part of his MO is to call for selections he knows will never happen so he can perpetually claim to be some kind of rugby sage.

[Yr Alban]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

Part of his MO is to call for selections he knows will never happen so he can perpetually claim to be some kind of rugby sage.

Fair point. He isn’t calling for Williams over Hogg any more, because there is now a decent chance of that happening, and he will look silly if Williams is rubbish.

[sockwithaticket]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

I often practice bass while watching games. if it's compelling enough (eg. Quins in the Prem knock outs) I'll switch the amp off and fully focus on the match, but if they're the turgid shite from yesterday I'll end up learning a new song or two.

[Uncle fester]

If history is any guide, Gatland will go full Welsh.

[Big D]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

Part of his MO is to call for selections he knows will never happen so he can perpetually claim to be some kind of rugby sage.

Fair point. He isn’t calling for Williams over Hogg any more, because there is now a decent chance of that happening, and he will look silly if Williams is rubbish.

He also knows Finn has played 90min of rugby in 6 weeks so if he is rusty he can criticise next week.

[SaintK]

The Walrus calling for "mercurial" Finn Russell to start the 3rd test is not a headline I thought I'd ever see.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merc ... -glxqxg62f

Part of his MO is to call for selections he knows will never happen so he can perpetually claim to be some kind of rugby sage.

Fair point. He isn’t calling for Williams over Hogg any more, because there is now a decent chance of that happening, and he will look silly if Williams is rubbish.

He is in my newspaper as are Stuart Barnes and several other pundits. Along with with Adams for VdM

TBH I don't care who he picks as long as we play proper LIons rugby and not the poorly executed, negative, turgid anti-rugby we played yesterday

[Line6 HXFX]

Well we tried the English and the Scottish "please don't leave the Union", political players..time to get serious and rescue the series.

Incredible after all that hype and publicity, and THAT is all our English sky sports vanity players could do.
Though tbh, they couldn't even come fourth in the six nations.
Not even Gatland could Polish that turd.
Navidi, Beard, Adams, LRZ and Liam William's, with the Sheriff, Gareth Davies, Wyn Jones, and Falatau.

[Begbie]

Well we tried the English and the Scottish "please don't leave the Union", political players..time to get serious and rescue the series.

Incredible after all that hype and publicity, and THAT is all our English sky sports vanity players could do.
Though tbh, they couldn't even come fourth in the six nations.
Not even Gatland could Polish that turd.
Navidi, Beard, Adams, LRZ and Liam William's, with the Sheriff, Gareth Davies, Wyn Jones, and Falatau.

Still on it from yesterday? Good shift.

[Yr Alban]

Part of his MO is to call for selections he knows will never happen so he can perpetually claim to be some kind of rugby sage.

Fair point. He isn’t calling for Williams over Hogg any more, because there is now a decent chance of that happening, and he will look silly if Williams is rubbish.

He is in my newspaper as are Stuart Barnes and several other pundits. Along with with Adams for VdM

TBH I don't care who he picks as long as we play proper LIons rugby and not the poorly executed, negative, turgid anti-rugby we played yesterday

Fine. I have zero intention of paying to read the Times, so I haven’t seen the article.

All of the pundits were calling for Williams over Hogg before the Tests, on the basis of ability under the high ball and little else. They all went a bit quiet last week when Hogg had a decent (not great) game and Williams failed to gather a single high ball, but they’ll be trumpeting it from the ramparts again now.

Hogg didn’t play well yesterday. If that means he gets dropped then fair enough, but he wasn’t any worse than anyone else on the Lions team and shouldn’t be taking all the blame.

[dpedin]

TBH 'losing the arial battle' is just papering over the big cracks in the Lions team, its an easy excuse to make. We lost the game long before SA were putting high kicks into our 22, these are just the inevitable end result of a poor gameplan and even poorer execution. We lost the battle up front, we lost the set piece, we didn't put them under any pressure with our kicking and we didn't attack them out wide when we knew that won us yards and created opportunities in first test.

Defending the high ball is more than just the guy catching the ball, it is about preventing the opposition getting into positions to kick into your 22, putting pressure on the kicker, running lines back to protect your receiver and having support to defend the ball once the kick has been taken - we did very little of any of this. I suspect you could have put Adams, Daly and Zammet in the back 3 yesterday and they would have struggled as well with the kicks and lack of protection. If folk think all we need to do is change the back 3 to 'win the arial battle' next week and everything will be all right then they are sadly deluded.

Next week I would suggest the Lions need to keep the ball in hand a lot more, speed up play away from the contact point, go through more phases, move the points of contact around the pitch and bring our outside backs into the game more and when required kick a bit more intelligently. We need a more mobile back row to get to and secure ball at the breakdown so I would play Curry at 8 and Watson at 7. If we think doing the same again with different personnel is going to win the game then we are fecked!

[Margin__Walker]

Really don't think Curry at at 8 is the answer to anything. He's bench cover there at best for me. I'd give Watson a shot at 7 and have Beirne at 6 to provide a little more breakdown threat.

Potential for deck chairs on the Titanic though. Change too much and you're panicking. Change too little and it's hard to see them arresting the momentum shift that's occurred.

Something has to change in that backline though. Will never happen, but I'd go for it. Play the likes of Smith/Russell, LRZ. Have Simmonds on the bench. Not the % play, but would at least provide a bit more interest. I'm not sure I can sit through another game like that.

[ASMO]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

[handyman]

Anyway, my problem with Gatland has traditionally been that he had made a mockery of the tour matches and served up several shitshows as everything has been sacrificed for the Tests. The Tests on his previous tours were good, though.

These two have been fucking diabolical. Just horrendous anti-rugby. I do not at this stage care about the result of the final game (didn't really care today either). I would just like to feel like I haven't wasted yet more hours of my life.

I bailed at half time yesterday, having already sat through 60 minutes of one of the worst games I have ever seen. If the Lions are going to play the same brand of turgid anti-rugby in the next test, I’m not sure I can be bothered to watch at all.

What kind of fan are you?

[Yr Alban]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

I’ll live with Hogg and VdM being dropped if we get that team. Which we won’t, of course. One change though - if fit, Russell to start and Smith to bench. Smith is a huge talent, but he hasn’t played a single competitive minute for the England team yet.

[And 1 guest]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

I’ll live with Hogg and VdM being dropped if we get that team. Which we won’t, of course. One change though - if fit, Russell to start and Smith to bench. Smith is a huge talent, but he hasn’t played a single competitive minute for the England team yet.

What's Smith like as a goal kicker. Not seen much of him but he looks a real talent. Murray can row the boat home with daly and Biggar in the back.
Back row and back 3 we thought Lions were so strong. Looks like several good players is less than a few better ones.
Still think the game plan is all wrong. These players are not untalented, just playing the wrong type of game

[Yr Alban]

On second thoughts, if that team were picked, VdM should keep his place, because it would mean the Lions were actually going to run the ball, and that’s what he is supposed to be there for. Also, Watson was as bad as anyone else yesterday. LRZ would be the other option.

[Yr Alban]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

I’ll live with Hogg and VdM being dropped if we get that team. Which we won’t, of course. One change though - if fit, Russell to start and Smith to bench. Smith is a huge talent, but he hasn’t played a single competitive minute for the England team yet.

What's Smith like as a goal kicker. Not seen much of him but he looks a real talent. Murray can row the boat home with daly and Biggar in the back.
Back row and back 3 we thought Lions were so strong. Looks like several good players is less than a few better ones.
Still think the game plan is all wrong. These players are not untalented, just playing the wrong type of game

Seems pretty good. Kicked 7 conversions in his Lions tour game.

[And 1 guest]

Would pick Smith ahead of finn then. Hogg and the bokjock had their chance and blew it. Mish has to be involved, maybe itoje at 6 and Henderson starting

[C T]

Just Kyle Sinckler that has been cited, for biting. Can't think what the incident was... no way I'm re-watching any of that to try and find it.

[sorCrer]

Just Kyle Sinckler that has been cited, for biting. Can't think what the incident was... no way I'm re-watching any of that to try and find it.

64th minute on Mostert whilst Itoje was kneeing De Allende.



You can hear the ref discussing this with Kolisi a few seconds in. Sinckler looks miles away from anyone though.

[Big D]

https://www.ruck.co.uk/video-emerges-of ... rop-cited/

[Biffer]

Matt Dawson thinks the Lions need more creativity in the backs.

So he would play Farrell at 12.

How do you get paid for shitty opinions like that? asking for a friend.

[dpedin]

Matt Dawson thinks the Lions need more creativity in the backs.

So he would play Farrell at 12.

How do you get paid for shitty opinions like that? asking for a friend.

So England who came 5th in 6Ns and got beat by Wales, Ireland and Scotland will supply the creativity? Dawson is a twat but there again everyone knows that!

[dpedin]

I’ll live with Hogg and VdM being dropped if we get that team. Which we won’t, of course. One change though - if fit, Russell to start and Smith to bench. Smith is a huge talent, but he hasn’t played a single competitive minute for the England team yet.

What's Smith like as a goal kicker. Not seen much of him but he looks a real talent. Murray can row the boat home with daly and Biggar in the back.
Back row and back 3 we thought Lions were so strong. Looks like several good players is less than a few better ones.
Still think the game plan is all wrong. These players are not untalented, just playing the wrong type of game

Seems pretty good. Kicked 7 conversions in his Lions tour game.

Not entirely sure what Watson has done to retain a place, dropped every ball as well. I would retain Hogg and put Williams on the wing. Daly gets nowhere any team of mine, so Harris at 13. If we are going all out then Finn goes to 10, he can kick the penalties, long range can be kicked by Hogg.

Looks like Sinker won't be on the bench, but he got blasted yesterday so regardless of his Hannibal Lecter impersonation he wouldn't have been picked anyway.

[Kawazaki]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

Sutherland?

[Yr Alban]

I would go for broke for the last test.

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Curry (at 6)
Watson
Simmonds
Price
Smith
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Adams
Williams

Go hard or go home, but no chance Gatland will do that, i guarantee it will be more of the same as last game.

Sutherland?

Has to be someone. Pack did better in game 1 when Sutherland started. Unless Wyn Jones gets fit in a hurry?

[tc27]

What's Smith like as a goal kicker. Not seen much of him but he looks a real talent. Murray can row the boat home with daly and Biggar in the back.
Back row and back 3 we thought Lions were so strong. Looks like several good players is less than a few better ones.
Still think the game plan is all wrong. These players are not untalented, just playing the wrong type of game

Seems pretty good. Kicked 7 conversions in his Lions tour game.

Not entirely sure what Watson has done to retain a place, dropped every ball as well. I would retain Hogg and put Williams on the wing. Daly gets nowhere any team of mine, so Harris at 13. If we are going all out then Finn goes to 10, he can kick the penalties, long range can be kicked by Hogg.

Looks like Sinker won't be on the bench, but he got blasted yesterday so regardless of his Hannibal Lecter impersonation he wouldn't have been picked anyway.

I am a big fan of Hogg but hard to see how you can call for Watson to be dropped based on that performance and not Hogg - both pretty bad IMO - infact we could probably do this for the entire team save maybe Biggar and Itoje. Also the actual level of talent on the pitch compared to the performance is a strong indicator the coaching is off here.

England fans have known for a while that Mako and Sinckler are props you 'get away with' in the scrum in order to have them in the pitch.


I suspect Gatland will fall back on his Welsh favourites next week but the result will be largely the same