Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[Slick]

At least Henshaw gets to play in his best position. He's been decent in these Tests.

He has done very well, particularly as he came in a bit undercooked

[Uncle fester]

All going to be for nothing unless Biggar passes the ball.

[dpedin]

All going to be for nothing unless Biggar passes the ball.

You mean 3 passes in the last game weren't enough for you?

[Biffer]

All going to be for nothing unless Biggar passes the ball.

You mean 3 passes in the last game weren't enough for you?

You want the moon on a stick.

[JM2K6]

To be fair he was reading a book waiting for Murray to get to the rucks...

[Yr Alban]

Quite mystified by this selection. Why make most of the changes in the backs when the battle was lost up front? The back row were completely anonymous, so no changes there at all? Haven’t Beirne or Watson earned a chance? Is Owens really the best performing hooker? Does AWJ really merit another start?

Happy to see Price back in, though it makes his non-selection last week all the odder. He also has an established partnership with Russell, and starting one and putting the other on the bench ensures the Lions will extract the minimum of benefit from this.

Was wondering what Harris had done wrong, but I’d missed that Henshaw has moved to 13, so that at least makes some sense.

The Hogg issue has been done to death here. What’s weird is that he gets dropped and VDM doesn’t, when VDM was worse, and is also completely unsuited to the 10-man game plan. Dropping both might make sense, but if I were dropping one then it would have been VDM. Adams deserves a shot. I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Quite mystified by this selection. Why make most of the changes in the backs when the battle was lost up front? The back row were completely anonymous, so no changes there at all? Haven’t Beirne or Watson earned a chance? Is Owens really the best performing hooker? Does AWJ really merit another start?

Happy to see Price back in, though it makes his non-selection last week all the odder. He also has an established partnership with Russell, and starting one and putting the other on the bench ensures the Lions will extract the minimum of benefit from this.

Was wondering what Harris had done wrong, but I’d missed that Henshaw has moved to 13, so that at least makes some sense.

The Hogg issue has been done to death here. What’s weird is that he gets dropped and VDM doesn’t, when VDM was worse, and is also completely unsuited to the 10-man game plan. Dropping both might make sense, but if I were dropping one then it would have been VDM. Adams deserves a shot. I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

Also mystified. Surely there are options with the back row, rather than doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Changes to the centres suggests some Warrenball bosh from 12 (so not exactly putting width or injecting creativity), but only if Biggar actually passes the ball this time. Picking Price ahead of Murray and keeping VdM in the 15 suggests they're hoping the kick-chase works like it did in the first test - so no change of approach there except using Price to do it better than Murray did.

It's almost as if Gatland isn't expecting to have quick ball from the breakdown. Which means I fear that Russell will have no impact on the game when/if he gets on.

[MaccTaff]

I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

Good news and we’re delighted to hear it. More than one would be an improvement.

I’m not quoting the rest of that partisan shite.

[Tichtheid]

I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

Good news and we’re delighted to hear it. More than one would be an improvement.

I’m not quoting the rest of that partisan shite.

As a bench mark for Williams to improve on, and we have to measure for time the ball is in the air, the number of players contesting the catch etc - how many high balls did Hoggy take last weekend?

If I remember correctly it was more than one

[C T]

I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

Good news and we’re delighted to hear it. More than one would be an improvement.

I’m not quoting the rest of that partisan shite.

As a bench mark for Williams to improve on, and we have to measure for time the ball is in the air, the number of players contesting the catch etc - how many high balls did Hoggy take last weekend?

If I remember correctly it was more than one

I suspect it was fielded 5, dropped 3. That said I'm really not up for watching again the check!

Williams cameo in the first test I think it was fielded 0 dropped 2. In Williams defence he does have form of being ridiculous good under the high ball, but we've not seen it on tour yet.

Full back was always such a close call, both are great players. One picking up 2 starts and the other 1 start seems fair to me.

[Begbie]

[Yr Alban]

I’m fine with Williams starting, but he had better catch every high ball after everything that’s been said on here.

Good news and we’re delighted to hear it. More than one would be an improvement.

I’m not quoting the rest of that partisan shite.

I’m assuming you didn’t read it, either. The bit you quoted is the only potentially partisan bit. And it amuses me that you are having a go about me being partisan… by being partisan.

If Williams takes one ball in the air on Saturday then it will be one more than he managed in Test 1. That’s not partisan, it’s a fact. Hopefully he will perform slightly better in Test 3.

[Openside]

You just know Russell is going to get thrown on with 9 minutes left when the Lions are 10 points down and there'll be a barrage of criticism when he doesn't pull something out of his arse to win it.

Oh yes - absolutely bonkers far better to start him to see if he can shake things up and then shore up the defence rather than expecting him to throw hail Marys to save the match.

[Cartman]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

[Hal Jordan]

All well and good, but the ball needs to get to the wingers in the first place, and preferably not by attempting repeated bomb kicks until one works.

[Niegs]

[Jock42]

[Blackmac]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

I said this after the 1st test. People are howling because he is not taking spectacular clean catches, but every time he competed under a high ball, both defensively and offensively, the outcome was positive for the Lions

[ScarfaceClaw]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

I said this after the 1st test. People are howling because he is not taking spectacular clean catches, but every time he competed under a high ball, both defensively and offensively, the outcome was positive for the Lions

But he’s a better winger than just competing under a high ball. Get him with some space, room to run and actually make use of what is his better strength.

[Sandstorm]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

I said this after the 1st test. People are howling because he is not taking spectacular clean catches, but every time he competed under a high ball, both defensively and offensively, the outcome was positive for the Lions

He bettered Kolbe the Giant and Willie the Pea-heart in the air? Well damn, he’s basically a flying machine!

[Jock42]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

I said this after the 1st test. People are howling because he is not taking spectacular clean catches, but every time he competed under a high ball, both defensively and offensively, the outcome was positive for the Lions

But he’s a better winger than just competing under a high ball. Get him with some space, room to run and actually make use of what is his better strength.

You don't need to convince an Embra fan of that.

[Begbie]

[Blackmac]

His selection does make sense to me
Five yards out in traffic he is likely to score probably more than the other wingers
He can also truck it up from a deep kick, and be a crash ball runner or decoy
NZ way isnt it. One big ass winger on the left and a more subtle one on the right

I said this after the 1st test. People are howling because he is not taking spectacular clean catches, but every time he competed under a high ball, both defensively and offensively, the outcome was positive for the Lions

He bettered Kolbe the Giant and Willie the Pea-heart in the air? Well damn, he’s basically a flying machine!

The kicking game is not just about competing for a high ball in the air. In addition to fielding a couple cleanly, he forced three knock ons, two turnovers and a penalty. All pretty positive outcomes.

Plus he can only beat who the Boks are pitting against him so your point is pretty much crap. As someone says, as an Edinburgh supporter I know he can barely catch a cold but it's nonsense to say he didn't have a big impact.

[Margin__Walker]

Key takeaway for me form the series illustrated here in a couple of tweets. There was very little rugby played in the test series. Even though England tanked in the 6n, I found it a more enjoyable loss watching experience in general





As far as silver linings go, I can't see Gatland getting another series. Things definitely need a freshen up on that front.

[Slick]

Lions player of the series?

I might have to go for Henshaw. He was consistent and giving it all throughout

[Margin__Walker]

I think most players were giving it their all, but he would be in with a good shout. Touch of class here and there and didn't put much of a foot wrong at any point.

No one really hit it out the park and had a real breakout series.

[Blake]

Lions player of the series?

I might have to go for Henshaw. He was consistent and giving it all throughout

Itoje or AWJ for me. Both really troubled the Boks.

[Sandstorm]

Henshaw (criminally underused) or Itoje for me.

[boere wors]

Finn Russel. His 70 min cameo was better than what any other Lions player did in three tests.

[Slick]

Finn Russel. His 70 min cameo was better than what any other Lions player did in three tests.

I was tempted.

Looking forward to see what he can do at Murrayfield in November

[Sandstorm]

Finn Russel. His 70 min cameo was better than what any other Lions player did in three tests.

I was tempted.

Looking forward to see what he can do at Murrayfield in November

3 Tests in a row is too much for Finn not to have a complete meltdown at least once.

[SaintK]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

[ASMO]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Would be the end of any interest in the Lions for me if that happenned.

[Yr Alban]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Oh Jesus, I really hope this isn’t true. The man now has the complete set of Lions tours, let someone else have a shot. Especially after some of the ‘rugby’ we’ve been forced to watch.

[Biffer]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Oh Jesus, I really hope this isn’t true. The man now has the complete set of Lions tours, let someone else have a shot. Especially after some of the ‘rugby’ we’ve been forced to watch.

And, frankly, he’s lost a series he could have won here, and drew a series he could have won in NZ.

[JM2K6]

Fuck knows why they're so desperate for the guy who's won one series out of three and made this one eye-bleedingly unwatchable to be there again

[JM2K6]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Oh Jesus, I really hope this isn’t true. The man now has the complete set of Lions tours, let someone else have a shot. Especially after some of the ‘rugby’ we’ve been forced to watch.

And, frankly, he’s lost a series he could have won here, and drew a series he could have won in NZ.

Not sure about the NZ one, he was extraordinarily lucky with the referee changing his mind in order to rob NZ of the series win. Kurtley Beale slipping over as he went to kick the winner in the first Oz Test too.

[Glaston]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

Eddie will be free of commitments come 2025

[Brazil]

Thanks, but no thanks Warren! Time for someone else to have a crack.

Warren Gatland has been told by the British & Irish Lions hierarchy that the job of head coach for the 2025 tour of Australia is his if he wants it, despite the series defeat by South Africa. Gatland refused to rule out a fourth tour as head coach in the aftermath of the defeat by the Springboks and he has subsequently received the firm backing of the Lions chairman, Jason Leonard, and the managing director, Ben Calveley.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/202 ... lia-tour

The Lions have shot themselves in the foot by insisting the coach be committed full time in the year leading up, meaning it restricts the pool of options to, basically, Gatland. There's no way on earth he should get the gig next time round, and it's absurd to be talking about it so soon after the tour. Far better to look at the options in two years time when hopefully O'Shea, Townsend or another Home Nations coach will have shown their worth.

Not Eddie though, obviously.

[boere wors]

It is time for a change for the Lions.