Flake Russell: what's the point?

[charltom]

No no, really I don't.

He's an amazing player who sometimes plays averagely. You're annoyed that he doesn't always play amazingly. That's understandable, but not worth investing this much emotional energy over.

It would of course be better always to play averagely, because that would mean he wasn't a flake. Of course.

[Yr Alban]

That’s where your logic falls down though, isn’t it? The picture you paint is that he should shine in easier games and struggle in tougher ones. Actually it’s the other way round, so your theory is wrong. The truth is that he is a high risk player and he doesn’t always perform, but when he does he can win big games by himself. If we had a slightly less talented but steadier option, he might not have as many caps, but we don’t (although Hastings is maybe getting there).

Think about that sentence. Because any professional whose performances are that way around ought to be having serious questions being asked over attitude.

Italic bit. Errr.... yes. Which is pretty much my point although I'm further down the slider in regards how many "win big games by himself" there actually are.

Oh, FFS Torq. It was pretty clear what I meant - the games he has excelled in most have been against big sides. Not that he always underperforms against other teams.

[Torquemada 1420]

This made I laugh from
https://actu.fr/sports/rugby/xv-de-fran ... 20283.html

Mais je suis probablement aussi naïf que Finn Russell au moment où il arme une quadruple passe sautée en se disant « tout va bien se passer ».

Basically, but I'm probably as naive as Finn Russell when he throws a quadruple miss pass and thinks everything is going to be okay.

[Begbie]

Courtesy of Top of the moon.

Finn Russell's last 6 games for @Scotlandteam against England and France:

W W W D W W

#AsOne

[Torquemada 1420]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

Pas de quoi lui ôter, en somme, cette image de joueur trop inconstant pour remporter des titres...

=
Nothing to remove the perception that he is a player too inconsistent with which to win titles.

Epitomised when Beale took a quick tap from a 22 take and passed to Flake with plenty of time to clear........ only for Russell to decide to take on 1 against 5 LaR players in front of him. Which did not end well...... try for LaR. Thereafter he imploded and created a stream of f**k ups.

So, that's one Euro Cup Final he almost single handedly lost Racing and now a T14 semi.

[Tichtheid]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

Pas de quoi lui ôter, en somme, cette image de joueur trop inconstant pour remporter des titres...

=

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

[SaintK]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

Pas de quoi lui ôter, en somme, cette image de joueur trop inconstant pour remporter des titres...

=

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

[Tichtheid]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

=

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

It’s unprovable of course, but peak Dan Carter wouldn’t have turned that game around last night - Russell wasn’t getting mullered in the scrum, he wasn’t getting smashed back in the tackle in every collision or getting roasted at the breakdown.
Biggar is a lower risk player, so I suspect he will start the tour as favourite for the ten jersey, but it would be a terrible shame if the Lions are going to South Africa to roost the pill, “get it in the facking mixer” and hope to win by aerial bombardment

[clydecloggie]

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

It’s unprovable of course, but peak Dan Carter wouldn’t have turned that game around last night - Russell wasn’t getting mullered in the scrum, he wasn’t getting smashed back in the tackle in every collision or getting roasted at the breakdown.
Biggar is a lower risk player, so I suspect he will start the tour as favourite for the ten jersey, but it would be a terrible shame if the Lions are going to South Africa to roost the pill, “get it in the facking mixer” and hope to win by aerial bombardment

Need to run those Boks ragged with exquisite ball placement. A bit like Price/Russell/Hogg did in the 6N with their windscreen wiper kicking tactics. Worked a treat as well, away to England and France. Just saying...

[Big D]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

Pas de quoi lui ôter, en somme, cette image de joueur trop inconstant pour remporter des titres...

=
Nothing to remove the perception that he is a player too inconsistent with which to win titles.

Epitomised when Beale took a quick tap from a 22 take and passed to Flake with plenty of time to clear........ only for Russell to decide to take on 1 against 5 LaR players in front of him. Which did not end well...... try for LaR. Thereafter he imploded and created a stream of f**k ups.

So, that's one Euro Cup Final he almost single handedly lost Racing and now a T14 semi.

Why is a 90 cap international taking a quick tap to allow Finn to clear when he should just do it himself? Looks as if the decision making was lacking from both.

[Big D]

And Russell has another stinker in the Top 14 semi final.

=

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

I agree that Biggar will likely be the starting 10. I do think though that Russell offers a good option from the bench though and I wont be surprised when Farrell is in the test squad instead of Russell.

SA may try and bully the Lions up front but looking at the pack the Lions have chosen (and midfield) I expect the Lions will be challenging the Boks from 12 out rather than in the tight. If that is the case it is a game that Russell can play pretty well he has a good range of disguised passes that can challenge the gain line.

[SaintK]

Yer talking shite, mate, Glasgow won the Pro12 with Russell at the helm.

If you think Russell was the reason Racing lost tonight you don't know rugby. They were bullied up front all game long, that is the first second and third rule of rugby, you don't win on the back foot.

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

I agree that Biggar will likely be the starting 10. I do think though that Russell offers a good option from the bench though and I wont be surprised when Farrell is in the test squad instead of Russell.

SA may try and bully the Lions up front but looking at the pack the Lions have chosen (and midfield) I expect the Lions will be challenging the Boks from 12 out rather than in the tight. If that is the case it is a game that Russell can play pretty well he has a good range of disguised passes that can challenge the gain line.

I think everyone is in there for tests selection to be honest
Interesting comments by Gatland on Farrell. I'd forgotten it's his 3rd tour

British & Irish Lions head coach Warren Gatland has revealed England captain Owen Farrell received a vast majority of the players’ vote as the team decided on its leadership group.
“I thought it was interesting that he ended up with the most votes out of anyone in the leadership group, so that speaks volumes for the respect in which he is held by all the players in the group, not just the England players.

[Big D]

Which is exactly how S Africa will try and play against the Lions and why Biggar will be the starting 10

I agree that Biggar will likely be the starting 10. I do think though that Russell offers a good option from the bench though and I wont be surprised when Farrell is in the test squad instead of Russell.

SA may try and bully the Lions up front but looking at the pack the Lions have chosen (and midfield) I expect the Lions will be challenging the Boks from 12 out rather than in the tight. If that is the case it is a game that Russell can play pretty well he has a good range of disguised passes that can challenge the gain line.

I think everyone is in there for tests selection to be honest
Interesting comments by Gatland on Farrell. I'd forgotten it's his 3rd tour

British & Irish Lions head coach Warren Gatland has revealed England captain Owen Farrell received a vast majority of the players’ vote as the team decided on its leadership group.
“I thought it was interesting that he ended up with the most votes out of anyone in the leadership group, so that speaks volumes for the respect in which he is held by all the players in the group, not just the England players.

I think Farrell is a leader, not necessarily a great captain but clearly a good leader. I don't get the hate that goes in his direction at times. I'll probably be removed from the Scottish thread for that. I just don't think at times his performances have been all that great. It really wouldn't surprise me to see him starting in the first test.

There must be a handful on tour no. 3; Farrell, Hogg, Faletau, AWJ (4), Williams and Murray at a guess.

I have always enjoyed the Lions even with so few Scots on tour. I am feeling optimistic that the test series will be good and close.

[Slick]

Bump

[Biffer]

Might not hear from Torq for a while.

[ScarfaceClaw]

What did he do in the second half?

[Ymx]

Nearly saved the lions

[dpedin]

Passed the ball more in first 5 mins he was on that Biggar did in whole of 2nd test - enabled the Lions to get behind the SA defence. Unfortunately the Lions didnt know what to do with the ball, like off load or pass!

[Blackmac]

What did he do in the second half?

You missed the penalties and the great line kicks

[Slick]

What did he do in the second half?

I know you watched the game so I’m at a bit of a loss on how to answer you

[Ymx]

What did he do in the second half?

I know you watched the game so I’m at a bit of a loss on how to answer you

He’s not joined the field yet. Scarface is still watching the first half.

[ScarfaceClaw]

What did he do in the second half?

I know you watched the game so I’m at a bit of a loss on how to answer you

He’s not joined the field yet. Scarface is still watching the first half.

I’ll watch the second half in four hours. I’ll update you all as I get through it.

[Yr Alban]

Might not hear from Torq for a while.

I knew there was a silver lining!

[Begbie]

Might not hear from Torq for a while.

I knew there was a silver lining!

[Begbie]

[Ymx]

[Chilli]

I would, personally, like to thank Gatland for not picking Russell in the first 2 tests. If you supply an address I'll post a cheap gold watch.

Russell is the reall deal.

[Torquemada 1420]

Passed the ball more in first 5 mins he was on that Biggar did in whole of 2nd test - enabled the Lions to get behind the SA defence. Unfortunately the Lions didnt know what to do with the ball, like off load or pass!

I did see some of the game and agree that Russell's accidental inclusion sped the Lions up markedly and will leave many wondering why they didn't play that way more from outset. However, would not blame Biggar because he would have been playing under instruction. Russell cannot play any other way so Gatland's anti-rugby rule set was never going to apply if he came on.

This was as much a case of Gatland losing the Lions the series than Russell almost saving it.

[Biffer]

Can hear the teeth grinding from here.

[Yr Alban]

Passed the ball more in first 5 mins he was on that Biggar did in whole of 2nd test - enabled the Lions to get behind the SA defence. Unfortunately the Lions didnt know what to do with the ball, like off load or pass!

I did see some of the game and agree that Russell's accidental inclusion sped the Lions up markedly and will leave many wondering why they didn't play that way more from outset. However, would not blame Biggar because he would have been playing under instruction. Russell cannot play any other way so Gatland's anti-rugby rule set was never going to apply if he came on.

This was as much a case of Gatland losing the Lions the series than Russell almost saving it.

The grudge is strong in this one!

I agree with your last sentence though.

[dpedin]

Passed the ball more in first 5 mins he was on that Biggar did in whole of 2nd test - enabled the Lions to get behind the SA defence. Unfortunately the Lions didnt know what to do with the ball, like off load or pass!

I did see some of the game and agree that Russell's accidental inclusion sped the Lions up markedly and will leave many wondering why they didn't play that way more from outset. However, would not blame Biggar because he would have been playing under instruction. Russell cannot play any other way so Gatland's anti-rugby rule set was never going to apply if he came on.

This was as much a case of Gatland losing the Lions the series than Russell almost saving it.

The grudge is strong in this one!

I agree with your last sentence though.

Ditto

[Monk]

yesterday Russell was particularly good at drawing teammates into good carrying positions

i doubt Biggar would have done that although he probably had the benefit of most of the preparation

[westport]

The same Finn that Marcus Smith - who is going to be a super star - couldn't wait to meet up with in the Lions camp to pick his brains.

[Yr Alban]

The same Finn that Marcus Smith - who is going to be a super star - couldn't wait to meet up with in the Lions camp to pick his brains.

Smith is going to be a star, no doubt. I am really hoping that Eddie Jones remains England coach and refuses to pick him!

[Torquemada 1420]

The same Finn that Marcus Smith - who is going to be a super star - couldn't wait to meet up with in the Lions camp to pick his brains.

Smith is going to be a star, no doubt. I am really hoping that Eddie Jones remains England coach and refuses to pick him!

Yes. Another anti-rugby coach.

[Sandstorm]

The same Finn that Marcus Smith - who is going to be a super star - couldn't wait to meet up with in the Lions camp to pick his brains.

Smith is going to be a star, no doubt. I am really hoping that Eddie Jones remains England coach and refuses to pick him!

“When Owen Farrell walks into a room, you can see he is a leader of men”

[Ymx]

These are your rugby headlines on Wednesday, August 11.

Dawson: 'Gatland still the mane man' and Russell 'the next Dan Carter'

Matt Dawson believes Warren Gatland is the man to lead the Lions for a fourth time and believes Finn Russell would be dubbed "the next Dan Carter" if he were an All Black.

Former scrum-half Dawson says Gatland's record as the tourists' coach should count in his favour and hopes he sticks around the for the 2025 Australia tour.

"He’s obviously very good at it and given the time constraints and general constraints around this tour, the adversity that he, the players, the staff and the Lions as a whole overcame was magnificent, and they were a whisker away from winning a Test series," he told William Hill.

"He’s won in Australia so he’s got that under his belt, he’s got a drawn series in New Zealand, he’s been nicked at the death with the last kick of the game in South Africa – he’s got a very good record as Lions coach.

"Why would we want to change that? This is not just about rugby coaching, this is about bringing elite players together to go down to the southern hemisphere and win. It takes more than just the players.

[Gumboot]

“ Dawson: 'Gatland still the mane man' and Russell 'the next Dan Carter'

Matt Dawson believes Warren Gatland is the man to lead the Lions for a fourth time and believes Finn Russell would be dubbed "the next Dan Carter" if he were an All Black.”

I haven't seen much of Russell playing, but the main criticism of him seems to be over his apparent flakiness - "he can win you the game by 20 points, or lose it by 20 points" etc...Can't recall Carter ever getting accused of being flaky.

[Ymx]

Sssshhhhhh bro.

It was just adding salt to Torqs wounds who had been trying to start a hate campaign against Russell. So it’s amusing how in the main stream it’s all blowing up so nicely.

[Slick]

Finn is not a new Dan Carter. Carter is arguably the best rugby player in the history of the game, Finn, for all I love him, is not.

However, Finn is utterly unique and a brilliant counterpoint to modern, dull, play by numbers rugby. I think that the 3rd test is going to catapult him into being one of the greatest players of this generation and I can’t wait to keep watching him.