Gunman in Plymouth - at least 5 dead

[Ymx]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... mouth.html

[Ymx]

Gunman 'kills five' in Plymouth before being shot dead as local MP warns residents to stay indoors - but incident is NOT terror-related

At least five people have been killed after a gunman went on the rampage in Plymouth tonight before turning his weapon on himself.

Armed police, the Hazardous Area Response Unit (HART), National Police Air Service and around three air ambulances raced to the scene in North Prospect following reports of multiple fatalities in the area near St Levan Road just after 6pm.

Police confirmed there were 'a number of fatalities at the scene', with other people left injured and needing treatment following the bloodbath.

Several of the shooter's relatives along with unconnected members of the public are believed to be among the victims.

Locals are now being warned to stay indoors as police officers and paramedics attend the 'ongoing incident' in the Keyham area tonight, with local Labour MP Luke Pollard describing the shocking scenes as 'a very grim day for our city and our community.

The incident, which is thought to involve a number of victims, is 'not terror related' and the suspect involved is not 'on the run', Plymouth MP Johnny Mercer has said.

[Blackmac]

Astonished by the lack of coverage about this on all the main morning news channels. Been watching between a few for about an hour and not a mention.
Not in London and not a muslim so move on.

[inactionman]

Astonished by the lack of coverage about this on all the main morning news channels. Been watching between a few for about an hour and not a mention.
Not in London and not a muslim so move on.

Very little information published by those who have covered it.

Wondering if matey might have a navy connection, and some suppression on immediate reporting? Will-arsed guess, but it is a bit odd.

[JM2K6]

Pinch of salt given the source but some of the trashier papers are reporting his social media was filled with trump quotes, US gun obsession, and incel shit

[Torquemada 1420]

Pinch of salt given the source but some of the trashier papers are reporting his social media was filled with trump quotes, US gun obsession, and incel shit

Never heard of the term "incel" until your post and had to look it up.

[Slick]

Astonished by the lack of coverage about this on all the main morning news channels. Been watching between a few for about an hour and not a mention.
Not in London and not a muslim so move on.

Eh? It’s been on every TV, radio and newspaper I’ve seen this morning

[JM2K6]

Pinch of salt given the source but some of the trashier papers are reporting his social media was filled with trump quotes, US gun obsession, and incel shit

Never heard of the term "incel" until your post and had to look it up.

Entered the mainstream with a bunch of US shootings in the last few years, and some media exposés and that

[Blackmac]

Astonished by the lack of coverage about this on all the main morning news channels. Been watching between a few for about an hour and not a mention.
Not in London and not a muslim so move on.

Very little information published by those who have covered it.

Wondering if matey might have a navy connection, and some suppression on immediate reporting? Will-arsed guess, but it is a bit odd.

It's incredibly difficult for the authorities in the UK to surpress any news, never mind an ongoing incident like this. 23 year old crane operator by all account who worked in the dockyard.

[Blackmac]

Astonished by the lack of coverage about this on all the main morning news channels. Been watching between a few for about an hour and not a mention.
Not in London and not a muslim so move on.

Eh? It’s been on every TV, radio and newspaper I’ve seen this morning

Not working today so maybe missed the earlier news but by 0830 BBC1 and ITV seemed to have moved on to shit like Les Dennis and 35 years of casualty.

[robmatic]

Pinch of salt given the source but some of the trashier papers are reporting his social media was filled with trump quotes, US gun obsession, and incel shit

Never heard of the term "incel" until your post and had to look it up.

Pretty poisonous ideology but it's not Islamic so there's no way we can make a connection between the isolated incidents when incels go on murderous rampages.

[I like neeps]

Pinch of salt given the source but some of the trashier papers are reporting his social media was filled with trump quotes, US gun obsession, and incel shit

Never heard of the term "incel" until your post and had to look it up.

Pretty poisonous ideology but it's not Islamic so there's no way we can make a connection between the isolated incidents when incels go on murderous rampages.

They aren't that isolated though. The Australian wacko in NZ, a few in Canada, this guy. They'll be incels behind US school shootings I'd bet. Also reckon Islamic incels are the most prone to joining Isis. They just won't call themselves incels and be extremisists instead. I'm sure the guy in Norway won't have had a girlfriend too.

Aggressive weirdo lonely men who can't find their place in this world are the most likely to be radicalised. Whether it's by Reddit or Islamist preachers.

[tabascoboy]

Gunman's name revealed ( only just seen this, sorry if it's old news...)

Plymouth shooting: Jake Davison named as gunman who killed five

[JM2K6]

Never heard of the term "incel" until your post and had to look it up.

Pretty poisonous ideology but it's not Islamic so there's no way we can make a connection between the isolated incidents when incels go on murderous rampages.

They aren't that isolated though. The Australian wacko in NZ, a few in Canada, this guy. They'll be incels behind US school shootings I'd bet. Also reckon Islamic incels are the most prone to joining Isis. They just won't call themselves incels and be extremisists instead. I'm sure the guy in Norway won't have had a girlfriend too.

Aggressive weirdo lonely men who can't find their place in this world are the most likely to be radicalised. Whether it's by Reddit or Islamist preachers.

He was being facetious, I suspect.

[Blackmac]

Gunman's name revealed ( only just seen this, sorry if it's old news...)

Plymouth shooting: Jake Davison named as gunman who killed five

Firearms licence holder. Nervous times for the local licencing lads, although it is very difficult nowadays to deny a licence if they have no previous convictions or intelligence concerns.

[tabascoboy]

Gunman's name revealed ( only just seen this, sorry if it's old news...)

Plymouth shooting: Jake Davison named as gunman who killed five

Firearms licence holder. Nervous times for the local licencing lads, although it is very difficult nowadays to deny a licence if they have no previous convictions or intelligence concerns.

Info still seems hazy but the weapon used appears to have been a shotgun for which I guess the usual reason is pest control - somewhat less worrying than proliferation of pistols/revolvers/semi-automatics - before people start jumping on the "see gun restrictions don't work" bandwagon. Though 5 victims is still 5 too many, the poor families.

[Ymx]

Was he going from house to house killing people. Just trying to understand how he killed 5 people with a double barrel shotgun. Or was it a pump action?

[Ymx]

Just reading up further on this


“ Shotgun Laws in the UK

In the UK, single, double and tripled-barrelled shotguns as well as those which have a lever action, pump-action, semiautomatic and fixed magazine capacity of no more than three cartridges are legal with a valid Shotgun certificate and meeting the basic safety requirements for firearm possession in the UK”

It seems 3 cartridges is the limit, but semi automatic.

[Sinkers]

Yes - all auto or pump action are restricted to 3 cartridge capacity in the U.K.
The press I’ve read says that this was a pump action.

Was always a bit of a red flag for me when someone would chose a pump action over an auto as there’s absolutely no benefit and quite a bit of downside. Except for the nacho, villain/bank robber vibe.

[Ymx]

Sequence of events

Davison shot his 51-year-old mother, Maxine, at a house in Biddick Drive before he went into the street and shot dead Sophie, aged three, and her father, Lee Martyn, 43.

In the 12-minute attack, Davison then killed Mr Washington, 59, in a nearby park before shooting 66-year-old Kate Shepherd, who later died at Derriford Hospital.

[Blackmac]

I see that snake Patel has stated that they are going to review how all forces grant Firearms and shotgun licences. Ehhh, they use home office guidelines you backsliding bitch.

[fishfoodie]

I see that snake Patel has stated that they are going to review how all forces grant Firearms and shotgun licences. Ehhh, they use home office guidelines you backsliding bitch.

I'm sure she also promised to undo cuts to police levels; to allow for these increased checks too ?

[Yr Alban]

I see that snake Patel has stated that they are going to review how all forces grant Firearms and shotgun licences. Ehhh, they use home office guidelines you backsliding bitch.

Latest thing is that they’re going to push this onto GPs. Who, frankly, should refuse to have anything to do with it, as it’s a non-NHS duty.

I honestly don’t see why anyone should be granted a firearms licence unless they can actually provide convincing evidence that they need to own a gun, which basically nobody does. (People say farmers do, though I’ve never been that convinced).

[Blackmac]

I see that snake Patel has stated that they are going to review how all forces grant Firearms and shotgun licences. Ehhh, they use home office guidelines you backsliding bitch.

Latest thing is that they’re going to push this onto GPs. Who, frankly, should refuse to have anything to do with it, as it’s a non-NHS duty.

I honestly don’t see why anyone should be granted a firearms licence unless they can actually provide convincing evidence that they need to own a gun, which basically nobody does. (People say farmers do, though I’ve never been that convinced).

Totally agree. And the farmer argument is rubbish. Most will poison or trap vermin.

[Sandstorm]

I know almost a dozen people in England with firearms licenses. None are farmers. All shoot clays regularly, half shoot birds or deer every season.

Only a couple have the potential to go postal and only if you take their beer away.

[mat the expat]

I know almost a dozen people in England with firearms licenses. None are farmers. All shoot clays regularly, half shoot birds or deer every season.

Only a couple have the potential to go postal and only if you take their beer away.

Bullshit

The Guns should be at a range.

[TB63]

I know almost a dozen people in England with firearms licenses. None are farmers. All shoot clays regularly, half shoot birds or deer every season.

Only a couple have the potential to go postal and only if you take their beer away.

Bullshit

The Guns should be at a range.

Nope, disagree with you there.
I've had shotgun licence for over 30 years. Used for shoots during the season, and when I was looking after an estate, used to control fox, rabbits and pigeon through the year. I don't agree with using poison in the country as a poisoned carcass could potentially kill Red Kites and other carrion birds. An air rifle doesn't have the power..

[charltom]

I see that snake Patel has stated that they are going to review how all forces grant Firearms and shotgun licences. Ehhh, they use home office guidelines you backsliding bitch.

Latest thing is that they’re going to push this onto GPs. Who, frankly, should refuse to have anything to do with it, as it’s a non-NHS duty.

It's not exactly the "latest thing". It's been a requirement for five years now for GPs to provide a factual medical report, and to note any concerns, at the time of firearm certificate grant or renewal. The BMA agreed to this, and the Home Office agreed that doctors could charge a fee for it. That's not great for FAC and Shotgun Certificate holders (who, after all, also fund the NHS), but it's good for doctors who can earn in a few minutes for this service what many of us earn in a few hours. Fees are not standardised. Doctors can opt out because of conscientious objection to firearms ownership, in which case FAC holders/the police can turn to a separate service that can also access their medical records.

I honestly don’t see why anyone should be granted a firearms licence unless they can actually provide convincing evidence that they need to own a gun, which basically nobody does. (People say farmers do, though I’ve never been that convinced).

You may not be able to see why, but many can. There are more than 600,000 certificate holders in the UK. I'm one of them and know hundreds of others. You probably do too, without realising it. For me, a rifle is a long range hole-punching device. It's certainly not a weapon. I use it for competitive shooting at distances up to 1200 yards, and have shot in several long range world championships (800, 900 and 1000 yards or 700, 800 and 900m depending on the host country). Do I need to do that? Only as much as anyone needs to play golf, or cricket, or rugby etc. I would bet that each of those sports (or the use of related equipment) is responsible for many more KSIs than legal shooting each year.

The firearm death rate in the UK each year, depending on what source you use, is between 0.2 and 0.5 per 100,000 people. That's tiny - among the dozen lowest in the world. That includes the use of illegal firearms (which is responsible for almost all gun crime).

The reason Plymouth is such big news is its rarity. This was the second mass shooting since Dunblane (a 25 year period). In the case of both Plymouth and Dunblane, the police had reason to deny the holder access to firearms, but for some reason apparently chose not to do so. That may simply be about not having sufficient manpower to do all of the checks required (including home visits), which is a shame given the process involves 1% of all Britons. But it's also notable how infrequently they have got it wrong.

One thing I would point out: in general, there are not many more responsible groups of people than Firearms Certificate holders.

[mat the expat]

I know almost a dozen people in England with firearms licenses. None are farmers. All shoot clays regularly, half shoot birds or deer every season.

Only a couple have the potential to go postal and only if you take their beer away.

Bullshit

The Guns should be at a range.

Nope, disagree with you there.
I've had shotgun licence for over 30 years. Used for shoots during the season, and when I was looking after an estate, used to control fox, rabbits and pigeon through the year. I don't agree with using poison in the country as a poisoned carcass could potentially kill Red Kites and other carrion birds. An air rifle doesn't have the power..

I'm talking about Sports shooters.

[Line6 HXFX]

First thing I thought is if taking an interest in weapons gets you labelled as highly suspect, by the media, then I am guilty.
One of my favourite YouTube channels is forgotten weapons..

Gun Jesus is awesome. A highly informative and educational chappy.

His stuff about British rifles, both modern and historic is fascinating.

[inactionman]

First thing I thought is if taking an interest in weapons gets you labelled as highly suspect, by the media, then I am guilty.
One of my favourite YouTube channels is forgotten weapons..

Gun Jesus is awesome. A highly informative and educational chappy.

His stuff about British rifles, both modern and historic is fascinating.

Seconded - I'm not a gun nut in any way, but their videos are part military, part engineering, part history and they're clearly utterly fascinated by their subjects.

[fishfoodie]

Point of Order !

The L85A1 wasn't a rifle; it was a cleverly disguised club.

[laurent]

Gun Jesus knows were the cool guns are :P

I have been meaning to order his first book reedition

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Point of Order !

The L85A1 wasn't a rifle; it was a cleverly disguised club.

L85A1 a.k.a "The Civil Servant" because it doesn't work and you can't fire it.

I have very much enjoyed the Forgotten Weapons channel.