Rugby Championship Match Thread - Sat 2nd - SA v NZ / Arg v Aus

[Grandpa]

That performance in the world cup final was the best Bok performance I had seen in over a decade. They played multi-dimensional rugby. Adapted well, played it tight when they needed to and cut loose when the opportunities arose. It was brilliant top notch rugby, that very few teams are capable of. But I haven't seen it since... it could have been a spring-board to a great Springbok team rather than just being remembered for that world cup performance...

I hope it comes back as at the moment SA seem to have regressed to the old pre-Rassie game plan that wins them some matches and loses them almost as many. In that final in 2019 they had a plan A,B and C... now they seem eternally stuck in Plan A. Maybe Rassie needs to come back as fulltime coach?

We were a bit rusted on sunday, havent played for a month. It will come back next week.

Do you think it's still there? I haven't seen it since 2019... I hope you are right...

[assfly]

Someone on Twitter mentioned that Willemse's kick was his first in a pro match since November 2020. If true, that puts the miss into a bit more context.

[handyman]

Never thought I would ever say this, but we missed Elton Jantjies. Time to go back to the 5-3 split.

[OomStruisbaai]

Never thought I would ever say this, but we missed Elton Jantjies. Time to go back to the 5-3 split.

Jantjies has been promoted to nr1 waterboy in Rassie's place

[Blake]

Never thought I would ever say this, but we missed Elton Jantjies. Time to go back to the 5-3 split.

I don't think that was the problem. A 6-2 split is fine, but not when the 6 is made up of 3 front rowers and 3 back-rowers. It works when you sub out the tight 5, not this nonsense we did over the weekend. Having 3 loosies on the bench was stupid.
2 backs on the bench is also fine, but you need to keep your 1 utility back in the pocket until the last 5 minutes

[handyman]

Never thought I would ever say this, but we missed Elton Jantjies. Time to go back to the 5-3 split.

I don't think that was the problem. A 6-2 split is fine, but not when the 6 is made up of 3 front rowers and 3 back-rowers. It works when you sub out the tight 5, not this nonsense we did over the weekend. Having 3 loosies on the bench was stupid.
2 backs on the bench is also fine, but you need to keep your 1 utility back in the pocket until the last 5 minutes

It is a problem when Pollard is off his game and we don't have a reliable 10 on the bench or a reliable kicker.

[Sandstorm]

Never thought I would ever say this, but we missed Elton Jantjies. Time to go back to the 5-3 split.

I don't think that was the problem. A 6-2 split is fine, but not when the 6 is made up of 3 front rowers and 3 back-rowers. It works when you sub out the tight 5, not this nonsense we did over the weekend. Having 3 loosies on the bench was stupid.
2 backs on the bench is also fine, but you need to keep your 1 utility back in the pocket until the last 5 minutes

It is a problem when Pollard is off his game and we don't have a reliable 10 on the bench or a reliable kicker.

The problem is there isn't a 9 or 15 in SA who is good enough to take pots at goal (like in France or NZ) when our 10 is off the boil. Bringing a better kicker off the bench in the 68th minute is a bad plan and often too late.

[Sards]

I don't think that was the problem. A 6-2 split is fine, but not when the 6 is made up of 3 front rowers and 3 back-rowers. It works when you sub out the tight 5, not this nonsense we did over the weekend. Having 3 loosies on the bench was stupid.
2 backs on the bench is also fine, but you need to keep your 1 utility back in the pocket until the last 5 minutes

It is a problem when Pollard is off his game and we don't have a reliable 10 on the bench or a reliable kicker.

The problem is there isn't a 9 or 15 in SA who is good enough to take pots at goal (like in France or NZ) when our 10 is off the boil. Bringing a better kicker off the bench in the 68th minute is a bad plan and often too late.

In normal condition I suspect if Pollard has shown the form he did on the weekend he would have been subbed halftime by a more reliable kicker

[FalseBayFC]

I don't think that was the problem. A 6-2 split is fine, but not when the 6 is made up of 3 front rowers and 3 back-rowers. It works when you sub out the tight 5, not this nonsense we did over the weekend. Having 3 loosies on the bench was stupid.
2 backs on the bench is also fine, but you need to keep your 1 utility back in the pocket until the last 5 minutes

It is a problem when Pollard is off his game and we don't have a reliable 10 on the bench or a reliable kicker.

The problem is there isn't a 9 or 15 in SA who is good enough to take pots at goal (like in France or NZ) when our 10 is off the boil. Bringing a better kicker off the bench in the 68th minute is a bad plan and often too late.

There is always Ruan who can play 9 or 15.

inpho-01668179-1024x726.jpg (90.13 KiB) Viewed 926 times

[FalseBayFC]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

[assfly]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of bringing him into the picture.

Only 29, which makes him 31 come the next world cup.

Too late for TRC, so perhaps he can be given a shot on the EOYT.

[Blake]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of bringing him into the picture.

Only 29, which makes him 31 come the next world cup.

Too late for TRC, so perhaps he can be given a shot on the EOYT.

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

[assfly]

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Ja that's fair enough. Perhaps Willemse isn't an impact player? Maybe he needs to start and be given 60 minutes to play instead of his usual 10.

[Sards]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of bringing him into the picture.

Only 29, which makes him 31 come the next world cup.

Too late for TRC, so perhaps he can be given a shot on the EOYT.

Experience cannot be bought. And he has been playing against top rugby players...not our local Currie Cup players

[Sards]

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Ja that's fair enough. Perhaps Willemse isn't an impact player? Maybe he needs to start and be given 60 minutes to play instead of his usual 10.

I am all for him starting at 10 this weekend. As far as I am concerned we are finished in this RC. Let's see if he is a 10....haal uit en wys

[handyman]

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Ja that's fair enough. Perhaps Willemse isn't an impact player? Maybe he needs to start and be given 60 minutes to play instead of his usual 10.

I am all for him starting at 10 this weekend. As far as I am concerned we are finished in this RC. Let's see if he is a 10....haal uit en wys

He is not even a proper 10 for WP, now you want to start him there in a test...At least we know he can tackle and not a pea-heart.

[FalseBayFC]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of bringing him into the picture.

Only 29, which makes him 31 come the next world cup.

Too late for TRC, so perhaps he can be given a shot on the EOYT.

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Willemse has become a good example of the sunk cost fallacy. But he is only 23 years old though and maybe worth a little more investment. Who might we turn to after De Allende? Andre Esterhuizen? I'm not a big fan of players who haven't found their specialist position after a couple of years of senior rugby. Tana Umaga and Nonu became great centres after moving in from the wing though as did Jaques Fourie. So I wouldn't mind seeing Willemse being given a chance. Apart from our wingers we really don't have a lot of pace in the backline, Am has a bit of toe but I was just watching Andre Snyman's highlights and it struck me how devastating midfield pace can be.

[handyman]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of bringing him into the picture.

Only 29, which makes him 31 come the next world cup.

Too late for TRC, so perhaps he can be given a shot on the EOYT.

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Willemse has become a good example of the sunk cost fallacy. But he is only 23 years old though and maybe worth a little more investment. Who might we turn to after De Allende? Andre Esterhuizen? I'm not a big fan of players who haven't found their specialist position after a couple of years of senior rugby. Tana Umaga and Nonu became great centres after moving in from the wing though as did Jaques Fourie. So I wouldn't mind seeing Willemse being given a chance. Apart from our wingers we really don't have a lot of pace in the backline, Am has a bit of toe but I was just watching Andre Snyman's highlights and it struck me how devastating midfield pace can be.

Steaks Snyman, ons of my favorite players.

[Grandpa]

On current form Goosen seems to be a good inclusion in the Bok squad for sure. But I do find it amazing people are calling for Willemse to get axed for one missed kick at goal, and Pollard gets a pass because "he had an off day". That's bullshit. We didn't lose because of Willemse; if he hit his kick it would have been a draw. We lost because of Pollard who left a ton of points on the field, kicked badly out of hand and made some terrible decisions in general.

Not calling for him to be dropped either; just saying that all this talk of laying it on Willemse is BS, and I'm not even a Willemse fan.

Ja that's fair enough. Perhaps Willemse isn't an impact player? Maybe he needs to start and be given 60 minutes to play instead of his usual 10.

I am all for him starting at 10 this weekend. As far as I am concerned we are finished in this RC. Let's see if he is a 10....haal uit en wys

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

[Sards]

Ja that's fair enough. Perhaps Willemse isn't an impact player? Maybe he needs to start and be given 60 minutes to play instead of his usual 10.

I am all for him starting at 10 this weekend. As far as I am concerned we are finished in this RC. Let's see if he is a 10....haal uit en wys

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

[boere wors]

Seriously though. Goosen could become the 10/12/15 utility back we're seeking.

I have seen him play 10, 12, 13 and 15 for Montpellier, and he was class in either position. He has a massive boot and his goalkicking is really good. He is the man to go to.

Willemse for me is a 12, and a 12 only. I have said it before, he should go to France and settle in that position there. Needs to get out of his bubble here in SA. 2 years in Europe and he will be a star.

[Chilli]

Honestly I think that way too much time has been spent discussing Willemse.
Some say he is a 10
Some say he is a 12
Some say he is a 15
some say he is a utility option
Some say he is vastly talented
Some say that he must be sent overseas to mature
Some say that he is vastly overrated

But all we know is that he ain't the Stig.

[boere wors]

All say he is talented
All want to find a position for him
All would like him to excel

[Grandpa]

I am all for him starting at 10 this weekend. As far as I am concerned we are finished in this RC. Let's see if he is a 10....haal uit en wys

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

[Sards]

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Nah...not buying that. What I saw this weekend was very very impressive. There wasn't a single aspect of your game, except the first half when you dropped so many tries , that is faulty

[Chilli]

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

Did you watch how the World Champion, Lion Slaying, Bok$ were beaten buy the Aussies?

The All Blacks put the Aussies to the sword twice.

We will be lucky to get within 20 points of the All Blacks.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not twice, three times

[Chilli]

Not twice, three times

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

[Chilli]

You wankers disrespecting a handicapped person.

[OomStruisbaai]

Not twice, three times

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

At least we don't have the moaning about Rassie & videos & refs.

[Ymx]

Not twice, three times

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

I reckon you will this week. You’re often a bit ropey off the plane.

[Chilli]

Not twice, three times

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

At least we don't have the moaning about Rassie & videos & refs.

Yet. One of them will bring it up at some stage

[Chilli]

Not twice, three times

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

I reckon you will this week. You’re often a bit ropey off the plane.

We were too nice. Which is not often what you expect to hear about us.

[Gumboot]

Even worse.....................................

How do they expect the Bok$ to put pressure on the All Blacks if we can't even beat a dismal Aussie team.

I reckon you will this week. You’re often a bit ropey off the plane.

We were too nice. Which is not often what you expect to hear about us.

Every excuse in the book. You lot are desperate to blame anything except the real culprit - your rigid, one dimensional, kick the fucking ball away every fucking time, dull as dishwater game plan.

"But, but...it's in our DNA!!!"

[sorCrer]

I reckon you will this week. You’re often a bit ropey off the plane.

We were too nice. Which is not often what you expect to hear about us.

Every excuse in the book. You lot are desperate to blame anything except the real culprit - your rigid, one dimensional, kick the fucking ball away every fucking time, dull as dishwater game plan.

"But, but...it's in our DNA!!!"

I can guarantee that every one of us is shouting 'DON'T FUCKING KICK IT' throughout the game. In fact, I heard someone in a house several away from mine screaming, 'hy gaan die fokken ding weer skop!' On Sunday.

[Gumboot]

I fully expect the Boks to smash the Wallabies this weekend. But I sincerely hope they do it by playing at least some running rugby, leave their goddamn army of water boys locked in their hotel basement, and at least try to limit each half to roughly 40 minutes, rather than the hour-long versions they clearly prefer.

Just a thought...

[Grandpa]

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Nah...not buying that. What I saw this weekend was very very impressive. There wasn't a single aspect of your game, except the first half when you dropped so many tries , that is faulty

They looked good in the World Cup too until they got their arses handed to them by England. SA are much better as under-dogs... so the best thing for NZ is that SA put 50 past Australia this weekend... and get a bit cocky.... NZ will perform better against an over-confident SA...

[Grandpa]

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

Did you watch how the World Champion, Lion Slaying, Bok$ were beaten buy the Aussies?

The All Blacks put the Aussies to the sword twice.

We will be lucky to get within 20 points of the All Blacks.

NZ beat SA in the World Cup... lot of good that did them...

SA are definitely trying to make sure they are not favourites ahead of the NZ game... but NZ must believe they are World Champions and the best team in the world... take no notice of the imposter from last weekend... else SA will smash em...

[Certain Navigator]

After one loss? What if you win this Saturday and then beat the All Blacks twice? Not beyond the realms of possibility...

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Probably not quite that bad. As the Aussies showed, the lineout is easily fixed — just put Jacobson up the front and throw it to him (although this becomes problematical if Savea is put back at 8 — Ioane might be able to do the lineout job in that case). I don't rate Perenara but he was surprisingly effective at the weekend and Weber has been playing well. At least they don't repeatedly kick the ball away a la Faf. And while B Barrett is no RMo, against Argentina he played as well at 10 as I've seen him do in 5 years. Certainly better than Pollard. So I think the glass is half full...

[Grandpa]

Can't see it. ABs are going to dismantle us. Watching this weekend I felt a lot of pain for Argentina. The AB runners are hard and big and hit the line at pace . The scrum was steady and in comparison the Aussies held our scrum. Lineouts of the ABS was outstanding....

Yeah. Can't see 2 victories at all. Might sneak one

NZ are green. Loosies are novices at test level and Beaudan Barrett (if fit) chokes with a decent rush defence. If not him, then Damian McKenzie will gift you a try or two... The lineout with Taylor and Coles injured.. and no Sam Whitelock looks very shakey... and Weber and TJP are average half backs.. SA have a good chance...

Probably not quite that bad. As the Aussies showed, the lineout is easily fixed — just put Jacobson up the front and throw it to him (although this becomes problematical if Savea is put back at 8 — Ioane might be able to do the lineout job in that case). I don't rate Perenara but he was surprisingly effective at the weekend and Weber has been playing well. At least they don't repeatedly kick the ball away a la Faf. And while B Barrett is no RMo, against Argentina he played as well at 10 as I've seen him do in 5 years. Certainly better than Pollard. So I think the glass is half full...

Don't be so positive... we need to stop SA'n fans from feeling like underdogs...