So, coronavirus...

[Paddington Bear]

Face masks is essentially a red herring given that wherever we all go on public transport the place will be heated and unventilated.

[tc27]

Before everyone piles in I am open minded about further measures (would have no problem with stricter mask rules and vaccine passports right now) and the government needs to really get boosters done with the same urgency it got the first doses done in the spring...but the important metric here is hospital admissions and ventilated beds in use not just cases.



I know I will be absolutely belted for this but we twice completely changed everyone's way of life, closed down the economy and added billions to our debt burden - there is a discussion to be had about how many times we do this even if it places the NHS under pressure (albeit far less than in the previous spikes).

Anecdotally speaking to a friend in Germany we are far more open here than they are - our vaccines were administered earlier so the effect is wearing off faster.

[Tichtheid]

The spike around 1950 came from post war debt plus building the NHS and the Welfare State. We repaid debt to the U during that period too.
I'm not saying "sod the debt" but it's not the most pressing concern right now.

[tabascoboy]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

[Tichtheid]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

My mum had her booster jab along with a flu jab last week in Edinburgh

[tabascoboy]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

My mum had her booster jab along with a flu jab last week in Edinburgh

That's another thing actually, no invite for a flu jab either ( usually get reminders for the freebie in the post as I'm "of an age")

[Tichtheid]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

My mum had her booster jab along with a flu jab last week in Edinburgh

That's another thing actually, no invite for a flu jab either ( usually get reminders for the freebie in the post as I'm "of an age")

I had my flu jab last week, my wife is with a different surgery but hasn't heard anything yet

[Biffer]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

My mum had her booster jab along with a flu jab last week in Edinburgh

My Mum has her booster scheduled for next week and had her flu vaccine a couple of weeks ago (Highland Perthshire).

[Biffer]

The spike around 1950 came from post war debt plus building the NHS and the Welfare State. We repaid debt to the U during that period too.
I'm not saying "sod the debt" but it's not the most pressing concern right now.

The public net debt thing has a few different ways to look at it as well though. If you consider how much it costs to service that debt, it currently costs us less to service the total amount of debt we have now than it has done at any point since the fifties. So even though we owe more, it's costing us less than it did before.

[dpedin]

Before everyone piles in I am open minded about further measures (would have no problem with stricter mask rules and vaccine passports right now) and the government needs to really get boosters done with the same urgency it got the first doses done in the spring...but the important metric here is hospital admissions and ventilated beds in use not just cases.



I know I will be absolutely belted for this but we twice completely changed everyone's way of life, closed down the economy and added billions to our debt burden - there is a discussion to be had about how many times we do this even if it places the NHS under pressure (albeit far less than in the previous spikes).

Anecdotally speaking to a friend in Germany we are far more open here than they are - our vaccines were administered earlier so the effect is wearing off faster.

I dont disagree with the numbers you show and that we should do everything possible to avoid another lock down. However ...

Looking at the number of covid patients in the NHS at a point in time is problematic - the ongoing cumulative effect of all these additional high risk cases that require intensive infection control and significant nursing, medical, etc support on the NHS has been huge. It has had a huge impact on NHS capacity, the loss of beds and capacity due to the covid patient numbers has been enormous - even the simple process of individual members of staff having to robe and mask up and then change all that every time on ward/ICU etc is exhausting for the individual care worker, takes a lot of time and effort and ultimately requires more staff time. Hospitals have been split into red and green zones, bed numbers have been reduced due to infection control, throughput in many diagnostic areas has been reduced, staff availability due to shielding/testing/infection/caring responsibilities has been hammered, etc. The impact of this on 'routine' emergency and elective care has been staggering witnessed by the long wait times at A&E and for elective work. It will take 5+ years for the NHS to recover and address the existing backlogs and get waiting times back to pre pandemic levels.

Covid patients in hospital is not a very good metric for determining if the NHS is under pressure. For example paeds A&E and ICU are under pressure at the moment not because of covid but due to the 40% increase in RSV cases that have arisen months before the usual peak, probably arising because lock down prevented RSV spread last winter. Many paeds ICU staff worked all last winter in adult ICUs because of covid.

Running any system red hot and at 100% for a lengthy period of time will break the system and the people in that system. It's a bit like the retail sector trying to run at peak Xmas levels for 52 weeks a year - they can't do it with the existing systems, resources and staff in place. My local pub has decided because of lack of staff it is shutting on a Monday and Tuesday. The NHS cant do that it is open 24/7 for 52 weeks a year. There is no down time and as soon as covid numbers reduce they turn to addressing the huge backlogs and continue to run at 100% to try and catch up and that is with lists getting ever bigger because of lock downs and demographics adding more patients.

I honestly can't understand why the Blonde Bumblecunt decided to withdraw all PH mitigations and tell everyone the pandemic was over and to get back to work. From a PH and economic stance this was a disaster. He should have adopted a more gradual approach, as many European countries have done, and retained basic PH mitigations like masks, distancing, ventilation, work from home, etc, pushed for earlier vaccination of kids before they went back to school, pushed hard on booster jabs and introduced vaccine passports. This would have slowed any growth in covid over the autumn/winter, allowed the economy to continue to open up with only very minor interruptions and hopefully avoided any need for a lock down this winter. The outcomes of the approach they have adopted - comparable European leading growth in cases, hospitalisations and deaths - is the most likely to lead to what they have said they didnt want - another lock down! Some might think it was a deliberate policy to achieve herd immunity through infection of the younger members of our society? It might have back fired?

PS Lets not even mention long covid.

[Paddington Bear]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

[Sandstorm]

Anyone in the UK who has had an invite for the booster jab? Certainly on neighbourhood social media in my locale not one person says they've had the invite let alone the jab.

Our local GP surgery is getting flu jabs out the the way first and waiting for stocks of boosters before issuing them.

God knows how that helps 80+ year olds who had their second Covid shot 7+ months ago......

[tc27]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

I think the consent for a further full on lockdown simply does not exist - at least amongst people I know. Government could of course drop its 'get back to the office' rhetoric and re-introduce mask rules. Also personally happy for vaccine passports to be introduced across the UK if it works in Scotland.

[Sandstorm]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

I think the consent for a further full on lockdown simply does not exist - at least amongst people I know.

The Laws to lock-up pub landlords & gym owners for opening during lockdown still exist. Of course that won't help for people who will just mix with whoever they want privately over the winter.

[Paddington Bear]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

I think the consent for a further full on lockdown simply does not exist - at least amongst people I know.

The Laws to lock-up pub landlords & gym owners for opening during lockdown still exist. Of course that won't help for people who will just mix with whoever they want privately over the winter.

Yeah I think I'd just continue to see my friends this time - the last lockdown was utterly brutal.

[robmatic]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

If you're fully vaccinated it does change the equation somewhat compared to the previous lockdowns as well. You've already dramatically reduced the risk to your own health as well as that of transmitting to other people and of putting an additional load on the health service.

[Paddington Bear]

Honestly not convinced I can do another lockdown and would strongly consider rule breaking (I haven't in previous ones). Doubt I'm alone but the government promising there won't be one is essentially the bat signal that there will be one.

If you're fully vaccinated it does change the equation somewhat compared to the previous lockdowns as well. You've already dramatically reduced the risk to your own health as well as that of transmitting to other people and of putting an additional load on the health service.

Pretty much. Will obviously take a booster as and when.

[tc27]

Reasonable number of boosters today (200k).

If the government can get this number up higher over the next month it may well stop this getting much worse.

[Insane_Homer]

[SaintK]

Reasonable number of boosters today (200k).

If the government can get this number up higher over the next month it may well stop this getting much worse.

Thought they'd been stuck on 200k for a few days?
Listening to to interviews with NHS personnel on lunchtime news there appears to be rampant confusion as to who should be doing what and where. Lack of leadership and direction once again

[GogLais]

Having listened to Sajid Javid saying that the Gov’t is basing its policy on the vaccine and the public voluntarily taking proper precautions they are either reckless or are extremely well-advised and have nerves of steel. Who knows which?

[dpedin]

Having listened to Sajid Javid saying that the Gov’t is basing its policy on the vaccine and the public voluntarily taking proper precautions they are either reckless or are extremely well-advised and have nerves of steel. Who knows which?

I thought that briefing was mind numbingly awful ... the Gov is increasingly trying to shift the blame onto everyone else for the pandemic, first GPs, then the NHS and now the public for not doing what they are told and copying the Gov instead by not wearing masks in crowded indoor places such as the HoC , HoL and the Tory Party Conference. Just feckin unbelievable!

[Paddington Bear]

Screams we’ll lockdown but too late to make a meaningful difference and then we’re just in time to shit the bed over Christmas again.
Still, might get to Twickenham

[Slick]

Having just got back from a couple of days in London it seems most have stopped any kind of mitigation.

Was particularly amazed that it was probably 50/50 mask wearing on the tube despite constant announcements and posters everywhere. Several times I was the only person in a shop/pub/restaurant wearing one.

[Dogbert]

No furlough, no lockdown, and I can't see furlough being reintroduced

[salanya]

We won't lockdown, Tories won't accept that politically/economically. They'll just watch the NHS slowly buckle, and in a few months the army will be doing most of the ambulance and transport truck driving. Not sure if we'll have any teachers left, but they left Gavin in charge of education for ages, which shows how much they value the education sector

With the vaccines we shouldn't have to lock down either, but we should have been managing this so much better.
At least there is more reference again of the basic measures, and NHS leads have clearly decided to start communicating the seriousness of the situation themselves.

But the hypocricy of the government is awful. No masks in the House of Commons, or in any of their meetings, but then will complain that numbers are going up and the difficulty of handling the situation.
And this has not been some sudden increase; numbers have been going up for months, and they just ignored it, because 9 months ago they had such a great start with the vaccinations.
They must all be followers of good old General Melchett: If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

[JM2K6]

Yeah, the difference now is that those who would've been a bit saner about lockdowns and messaging have either been discredited by other actions, booted out of their positions, or both (hi Matt). So we're left with the likes of Javid and Sunak who are full-bore "cry freedom and let the virus rip" types

[salanya]

Yeah, the difference now is that those who would've been a bit saner about lockdowns and messaging have either been discredited by other actions, booted out of their positions, or both (hi Matt). So we're left with the likes of Javid and Sunak who are full-bore "cry freedom and let the virus rip" types

It's the patronising tone of it all - 'get Covid jab or restrictions more likely'
a) 80% of people are double jabbed, many of them can't do much more and can't prevent these threatened restrictions
b) the booster jab has only recently been added, and may not be available for many yet anyway (and note that Dorset had to stop vaccinating teenagers as they don't have sufficient staff).
c) vaccinations don't make you totally immune to catching/spreading Covid, especially when it's been longer since the jabs.

And most importantly in this context: d) restrictions aren't a punishment, they are a preventitive measure to stop the spread of illness and protect health services. The government aren't our parents or teachers, whatever some of these entitled arses may think.

rant over - that government message got me really annoyed.

[GogLais]

Having listened to Sajid Javid saying that the Gov’t is basing its policy on the vaccine and the public voluntarily taking proper precautions they are either reckless or are extremely well-advised and have nerves of steel. Who knows which?

I thought that briefing was mind numbingly awful ... the Gov is increasingly trying to shift the blame onto everyone else for the pandemic, first GPs, then the NHS and now the public for not doing what they are told and copying the Gov instead by not wearing masks in crowded indoor places such as the HoC , HoL and the Tory Party Conference. Just feckin unbelievable!

Yes, looking back I’m not sure what the point of it was really. Talk of 100k cases per day (3m a month!) as if it’s so what?

[tabascoboy]

So apparently the booster jab becomes available 6 months after your 2nd jab which in my case was in June, thus have to wait until December. The number of centres has drastically reduced though so it won't be as easy for some to get to them. Should be able to get a flu jab before then more easily though as the usual places like local pharmacies will be offering them (I hope anyway).

[SaintK]

Quite!!

Politicians have a responsibility to set an example in the battle against Covid, including wearing masks in crowded spaces, Sajid Javid has suggested as he predicted new infections could hit a record 100,000 a day.

[SaintK]

So apparently the booster jab becomes available 6 months after your 2nd jab which in my case was in June, thus have to wait until December. The number of centres has drastically reduced though so it won't be as easy for some to get to them. Should be able to get a flu jab before then more easily though as the usual places like local pharmacies will be offering them (I hope anyway).

Health Minister Agar doing the press rounds this morning saying everyone ove the age of 50 can book their booster immediately
They obviously forgot to tell the NHS as they haven't changed the website and computer still says "NO"

[Sandstorm]

So apparently the booster jab becomes available 6 months after your 2nd jab which in my case was in June, thus have to wait until December. The number of centres has drastically reduced though so it won't be as easy for some to get to them. Should be able to get a flu jab before then more easily though as the usual places like local pharmacies will be offering them (I hope anyway).

Health Minister Agar doing the press rounds this morning saying everyone ove the age of 50 can book their booster immediately
They obviously forgot to tell the NHS as they haven't changed the website and computer still says "NO"

Our local Boots Pharmacy are giving jabs and boosters. Went in yesterday, had to show my Covid app and when they saw when I had the second shot, said "See you 1st week of December, mate."

[weegie01]

So apparently the booster jab becomes available 6 months after your 2nd jab which in my case was in June, thus have to wait until December. The number of centres has drastically reduced though so it won't be as easy for some to get to them. Should be able to get a flu jab before then more easily though as the usual places like local pharmacies will be offering them (I hope anyway).

Health Minister Agar doing the press rounds this morning saying everyone ove the age of 50 can book their booster immediately
They obviously forgot to tell the NHS as they haven't changed the website and computer still says "NO"

Our local Boots Pharmacy are giving jabs and boosters. Went in yesterday, had to show my Covid app and when they saw when I had the second shot, said "See you 1st week of December, mate."

You become eligible 6 months after the second jab, at least here in Scotland.

[GrahamWa]

You become eligible 6 months after the second jab, at least here in Scotland.

You might be eligible (I am, 6 months and 3 days) but you need to wait on your health board inviting you to get it. According to my surgery they are still hoping to get the flu jab invites out by the end of October, so not holding out much hope. I understand the Health Board (in NHS Highland anyway) are sending out the letters directly. I suppose I am happy that they are targeting the more at risk first, but just say we'll get to you as soon as we can don't put an arbitrary date on it that can't be met.

[SaintK]

So apparently the booster jab becomes available 6 months after your 2nd jab which in my case was in June, thus have to wait until December. The number of centres has drastically reduced though so it won't be as easy for some to get to them. Should be able to get a flu jab before then more easily though as the usual places like local pharmacies will be offering them (I hope anyway).

Health Minister Agar doing the press rounds this morning saying everyone ove the age of 50 can book their booster immediately
They obviously forgot to tell the NHS as they haven't changed the website and computer still says "NO"

Our local Boots Pharmacy are giving jabs and boosters. Went in yesterday, had to show my Covid app and when they saw when I had the second shot, said "See you 1st week of December, mate."

But it's all our fault according the the Blonde Slug

Boris Johnson has blamed a failure of people to come forward for booster jabs for the slow rollout of the programme, calling it “a demand issue”.
The NHS and the department of health are both in the firing line for the low number of vaccinations – with Labour claiming two million eligible people have yet to receive an invitation.
But the prime minister insisted there is adequate supply, saying: “It’s a demand issue. We really urge people to come and do it.”

[JM2K6]

As long as we're holding ministers to account in Parliament...

[dpedin]

As long as we're holding ministers to account in Parliament...

Nah nothing compared to this - raise you!




Mr Rees-Mogg joked, when asked why they are not wearing masks, that the SNP MP might not like "mixing with his own side" but the Conservatives "have a more convivial, fraternal spirit and therefore are following the guidance of Her Majesty's government".

[vball]

You become eligible 6 months after the second jab, at least here in Scotland.

You might be eligible (I am, 6 months and 3 days) but you need to wait on your health board inviting you to get it. According to my surgery they are still hoping to get the flu jab invites out by the end of October, so not holding out much hope. I understand the Health Board (in NHS Highland anyway) are sending out the letters directly. I suppose I am happy that they are targeting the more at risk first, but just say we'll get to you as soon as we can don't put an arbitrary date on it that can't be met.

I had my flu jab a couple of weeks ago as requested by NHS Highland but being a portly fellow and over 50, I am towards the front of the queue. She who must be obeyed is also over 50, no weight and health issues, also got jabbed too. We went on the 2nd day of the 3 day event at Black Isle Showground and it was empty. No queues, etc. Those workign there said people were coming in on time, etc and it went swimmingly well.

[tabascoboy]

Covid: UK cases top 50,000 for first time in three months

More than 50,000 Covid cases have been recorded in the UK for the first time since 17 July.

Amid calls for more restrictions, Boris Johnson urged people to come forward for booster jabs when their time comes.

The prime minister said those who become eligible for a third dose of vaccine should organise an appointment straight away.

The UK recorded 52,009 new Covid cases on Thursday - alongside 115 deaths within 28 days of a positive test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58999796