French squad for AIs

[Torquemada 1420]

Le groupe du XV de France :

Piliers : Bamba, Baille, Hounkpatin, Gros, Paiva, Atonio.

Talonneurs : Barlot, Mauvaka, Marchand.

Deuxième ligne : Willemse, Le Roux, R. Taofifenua, Geraci, Vanverberghe, Flament, Verhaeghe.

Troisième ligne : Alldritt, Jelonch, Woki, Cretin, Cros, Macalou, Diallo.

Demis de mêlée : Dupont, Couilloud, Lucu.

Demis d'ouverture : Ntamack, Jalibert, Hastoy.

Centres : Fickou, Vakatawa, Vili, Moefana, Danty.

Ailiers : Villière, Penaud, Lebel, D. Taofifenua.

Arrières : Dulin, Jaminet, Buros, Ramos.

- No Chat or Bourgarit is bizarre. Both have been on fire.
- Glad to see Macalou in there who has been the best player in T14 along with Dupont.
- Danty is just a weird choice.
- Glad to see the Montpellier hard on diminishing.

[Tichtheid]

Le groupe du XV de France :

Piliers : Bamba, Baille, Hounkpatin, Gros, Paiva, Atonio.

Talonneurs : Barlot, Mauvaka, Marchand.

Deuxième ligne : Willemse, Le Roux, R. Taofifenua, Geraci, Vanverberghe, Flament, Verhaeghe.

Troisième ligne : Alldritt, Jelonch, Woki, Cretin, Cros, Macalou, Diallo.

Demis de mêlée : Dupont, Couilloud, Lucu.

Demis d'ouverture : Ntamack, Jalibert, Hastoy.

Centres : Fickou, Vakatawa, Vili, Moefana, Danty.

Ailiers : Villière, Penaud, Lebel, D. Taofifenua.

Arrières : Dulin, Jaminet, Buros, Ramos.

- No Chat or Bourgarit is bizarre. Both have been on fire.
- Glad to see Macalou in there who has been the best player in T14 along with Dupont.
- Danty is just a weird choice.
- Glad to see the Montpellier hard on diminishing.

Chat was the glaring-by-omission one that leapt out in that list

oh hang on, just looking up Teddy Thomas brought up this

France will have a new captain, as yet unnamed, in the absence of Charles Ollivon, who suffered an ACL injury while playing for Toulon in June.
Further injuries see hooker Camille Chat (Racing 92), centre Pierre-Louis Barassi (Lyon) and winger Teddy Thomas (Racing 92) also miss out through injury.

[Torquemada 1420]

Bourgarit, i like him, athletic hooker, smart behind the mauls, has some good runs with the ball but he can’t throw a straight ball into the lineout.
Macalou, instead of whom? my opinion hasn’t changed. Shouldn’t be in the team.
Danty, I agree, yellow card magnet, mini Bastaraud wannabe.

10 toulousains, Hugo Mola is going to be pissed off, Christo Furios too with 6 Bordelais .

None of the damned hookers can throw reliably. Including Marchand.

Macalou deserves a chance.

Danty is almost a big a liability as Vaahaa was.

[laurent]

Bourgarit, i like him, athletic hooker, smart behind the mauls, has some good runs with the ball but he can’t throw a straight ball into the lineout.
Macalou, instead of whom? my opinion hasn’t changed. Shouldn’t be in the team.
Danty, I agree, yellow card magnet, mini Bastaraud wannabe.

10 toulousains, Hugo Mola is going to be pissed off, Christo Furios too with 6 Bordelais

None of the damned hookers can throw reliably. Including Marchand.

Macalou deserves a chance.

Danty is almost a big a liability as Vaahaa was.

Have Dupont doing it. Seriously, is it a rule somewhere saying that only the hookers can throw the ball?

Sadly Mo haouas is out also.

No rules on Hooker throwing.

[Torquemada 1420]

Bourgarit, i like him, athletic hooker, smart behind the mauls, has some good runs with the ball but he can’t throw a straight ball into the lineout.
Macalou, instead of whom? my opinion hasn’t changed. Shouldn’t be in the team.
Danty, I agree, yellow card magnet, mini Bastaraud wannabe.

10 toulousains, Hugo Mola is going to be pissed off, Christo Furios too with 6 Bordelais

None of the damned hookers can throw reliably. Including Marchand.

Macalou deserves a chance.

Danty is almost a big a liability as Vaahaa was.

Have Dupont doing it. Seriously, is it a rule somewhere saying that only the hookers can throw the ball?

Sadly Mo haouas is out also.

I agree with you. Have always said it's f**king stupid having a short arse throwing it anyway. Use a lock. You lose one lineout option but massively reduce the arc trajectory as well as cutting out oppo jumpers at the front of the lineout.

[Torquemada 1420]

^
And cerise sur le cake, it’s Wayne fucking Barnes who will be the ref for FR - NZ

At least it can't be the cheating, god botherer Joubert.

[JM2K6]

None of the damned hookers can throw reliably. Including Marchand.

Macalou deserves a chance.

Danty is almost a big a liability as Vaahaa was.

Have Dupont doing it. Seriously, is it a rule somewhere saying that only the hookers can throw the ball?

Sadly Mo haouas is out also.

I agree with you. Have always said it's f**king stupid having a short arse throwing it anyway. Use a lock. You lose one lineout option but massively reduce the arc trajectory as well as cutting out oppo jumpers at the front of the lineout.

It is actually a skill and I imagine locks aren't the most dextrous of players

[Torquemada 1420]

Have Dupont doing it. Seriously, is it a rule somewhere saying that only the hookers can throw the ball?

Sadly Mo haouas is out also.

I agree with you. Have always said it's f**king stupid having a short arse throwing it anyway. Use a lock. You lose one lineout option but massively reduce the arc trajectory as well as cutting out oppo jumpers at the front of the lineout.

It is actually a skill and I imagine locks aren't the most dextrous of players

And hookers are? You ever watched basketball?

[handyman]

France have exited the last 2 RWC's at the quarter finals stage. When are we going to see them deliver on the big stage when it matters? Surely with all that talent they should be much better?

[JM2K6]

I agree with you. Have always said it's f**king stupid having a short arse throwing it anyway. Use a lock. You lose one lineout option but massively reduce the arc trajectory as well as cutting out oppo jumpers at the front of the lineout.

It is actually a skill and I imagine locks aren't the most dextrous of players

And hookers are? You ever watched basketball?

In general hookers are better ball handlers than locks, yes. And hookers will have also developed the skill over a period of time. It's far more common to find hookers who are decent-to-good passers and offloaders than it is to find locks who are the same.

No-one who talks about making non-hookers throw in at the lineout ever spent much time thinking about it (or doing it themselves). Besides, if you take a lock out, that's one big body you've no longer got as a potential target!

[laurent]

It is actually a skill and I imagine locks aren't the most dextrous of players

And hookers are? You ever watched basketball?

In general hookers are better ball handlers than locks, yes. And hookers will have also developed the skill over a period of time. It's far more common to find hookers who are decent-to-good passers and offloaders than it is to find locks who are the same.

No-one who talks about making non-hookers throw in at the lineout ever spent much time thinking about it (or doing it themselves). Besides, if you take a lock out, that's one big body you've no longer got as a potential target!

To be Fair I never played hooker but threw (badly ) as a wing.

French Had wingers and scrum half throwing regularly not that long ago.

[sockwithaticket]

NPR Frogs, are there any new additions to your squad we should really keep an eye out for? I recognise and know what to expect from most of the names, but a few, like Hastoy, are new to me.

[Torquemada 1420]

In general hookers are better ball handlers than locks, yes. And hookers will have also developed the skill over a period of time. It's far more common to find hookers who are decent-to-good passers and offloaders than it is to find locks who are the same.

No-one who talks about making non-hookers throw in at the lineout ever spent much time thinking about it (or doing it themselves). Besides, if you take a lock out, that's one big body you've no longer got as a potential target!

Even if we accept hookers are better handlers than locks, that can only be inherent from training i.e. it's a rugby thaaaaaang. And that's the point: start a lock early enough and no reason he should be any worse than any other player.

I did caveat the reduction in lineout targets although it's rare these days that both locks are targets (Simon Shaw too heavy to lift etc): it's usually one lock and some of the backrowers. What you might lose is some height lifting capability.

As an aside, I'm in the old school camp of not permitting lifting anyway.

[Torquemada 1420]

NPR Frogs, are there any new additions to your squad we should really keep an eye out for? I recognise and know what to expect from most of the names, but a few, like Hastoy, are new to me.

It depends on whom you've seen before. Most of the "newbies" were tried in the 3rd team outing to Aus. Anyway
- Hounkpatin: a real late flourisher. Monstrously huge and strong. Think Atonio but with the ability to last more than 5 minutes.
- Macalou is not really new but has been in the doghouse over Edinburgh-gate. A freak of nature. So quick that he's played at centre.
- D. Taofifenua at centre has been catching the eye for his pace at Racing.
- Jaminet at FB is another one to the fore late in the day. Spent his career languishing in lower divisions and was the standout player in Perpignan's return to the top flight. So much so he's meant
to be going to Toulouse next season. FWIW, I think intl is a step too far for him.
- Hastoy is a competent FH at Pau. Looks like he might end up at La Rochelle as they struggle with their sh*tehouse FHs. Again, I doubt he's going to be the next Dan Carter.

[sockwithaticket]

NPR Frogs, are there any new additions to your squad we should really keep an eye out for? I recognise and know what to expect from most of the names, but a few, like Hastoy, are new to me.

It depends on whom you've seen before. Most of the "newbies" were tried in the 3rd team outing to Aus. Anyway
- Hounkpatin: a real late flourisher. Monstrously huge and strong. Think Atonio but with the ability to last more than 5 minutes.
- Macalou is not really new but has been in the doghouse over Edinburgh-gate. A freak of nature. So quick that he's played at centre.
- D. Taofifenua at centre has been catching the eye for his pace at Racing.
- Jaminet at FB is another one to the fore late in the day. Spent his career languishing in lower divisions and was the standout player in Perpignan's return to the top flight. So much so he's meant
to be going to Toulouse next season. FWIW, I think intl is a step too far for him.
- Hastoy is a competent FH at Pau. Looks like he might end up at La Rochelle as they struggle with their sh*tehouse FHs. Again, I doubt he's going to be the next Dan Carter.

[JM2K6]

In general hookers are better ball handlers than locks, yes. And hookers will have also developed the skill over a period of time. It's far more common to find hookers who are decent-to-good passers and offloaders than it is to find locks who are the same.

No-one who talks about making non-hookers throw in at the lineout ever spent much time thinking about it (or doing it themselves). Besides, if you take a lock out, that's one big body you've no longer got as a potential target!

Even if we accept hookers are better handlers than locks, that can only be inherent from training i.e. it's a rugby thaaaaaang. And that's the point: start a lock early enough and no reason he should be any worse than any other player.

I did caveat the reduction in lineout targets although it's rare these days that both locks are targets (Simon Shaw too heavy to lift etc): it's usually one lock and some of the backrowers. What you might lose is some height lifting capability.

As an aside, I'm in the old school camp of not permitting lifting anyway.

It's not inherent from training. Part of it is to do with physique and what players are selected on - hookers are expected to do different things from locks and ball skills are rewarded more. Plus, handling ability can be improved with training but people have some natural skills there. There's enough variation in ability from hooker to hooker - they all spend an insane amount of time on it - that it should be obvious that it's not something everyone can do.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's not inherent from training. Part of it is to do with physique and what players are selected on - hookers are expected to do different things from locks and ball skills are rewarded more. Plus, handling ability can be improved with training but people have some natural skills there. There's enough variation in ability from hooker to hooker - they all spend an insane amount of time on it - that it should be obvious that it's not something everyone can do.

Unless you are suggesting players are born with their skills, it's all entirely inherent from training and the only debates are when it commenced, the quantity and the quality. Your last sentence only helps to reinforce the argument that any other player could do it.

[JM2K6]

It's not inherent from training. Part of it is to do with physique and what players are selected on - hookers are expected to do different things from locks and ball skills are rewarded more. Plus, handling ability can be improved with training but people have some natural skills there. There's enough variation in ability from hooker to hooker - they all spend an insane amount of time on it - that it should be obvious that it's not something everyone can do.

Unless you are suggesting players are born with their skills, it's all entirely inherent from training and the only debates are when it commenced, the quantity and the quality. Your last sentence only helps to reinforce the argument that any other player could do it.

Inherent skill is a thing, yes. And locks, like props, are often judged less on their athletic ability - and definitely less on their ball handling skills - than on their core skills of being fucking massive and pushing hard.

Yes, if for example a winger trained as often as a hooker for as many years as a hooker on throwing in at the lineout, I see no reason why they wouldn't be as good. Of course then you'd be minus a hooker in their correct position in an attacking lineout.

[JM2K6]

French Had wingers and scrum half throwing regularly not that long ago.

What's your definition of not that long ago?

[Torquemada 1420]

French Had wingers and scrum half throwing regularly not that long ago.

What's your definition of not that long ago?

About 30 years!

[Torquemada 1420]

It is actually a skill and I imagine locks aren't the most dextrous of players

You say that because most of them are South-African.

TBF, Matfield was seriously good.

[JM2K6]

French Had wingers and scrum half throwing regularly not that long ago.

What's your definition of not that long ago?

About 30 years!

That's what I thought pre-professionalism even!

[laurent]

What's your definition of not that long ago?

About 30 years!

That's what I thought pre-professionalism even!

Auch was still more recently than that.
Under the legendary Henry Broncan.

[Torquemada 1420]

About 30 years!

That's what I thought pre-professionalism even!

Auch was still more recently than that.
Under the legendary Henry Broncan.

It was often the winger since lineouts were 8 men but in France, SHs often did it. Pretty sure I can recall even Fouroux doing it which would have been Auch but earlier than when you mention.

[laurent]

That's what I thought pre-professionalism even!

Auch was still more recently than that.
Under the legendary Henry Broncan.

It was often the winger since lineouts were 8 men but in France, SHs often did it. Pretty sure I can recall even Fouroux doing it which would have been Auch but earlier than when you mention.

Broncan was still doing it until he went to other pastures (2007).