Does this happen before England games too?Uncle fester wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 amWales are a pretty up and down team, even at the best of times.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:32 amYet in the 6 Nations you hope to win the whole thing.... so why so pessimistic that even your best team would be hammered against NZ? I hope the Welsh players don't think like this or they are stuffed before they even take the field...Wyndham Upalot wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:08 am We're going to be rammed. Even with our first choice players, we'd be outclassed, expect a blitz like score.
Wales v New Zealand - Saturday 30th October 2021 | KO – 17:15
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sockwithaticket
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Not to the same extent, but then again they've beaten us as recently as last year. They know it can be done. They haven't turned your lot over since 1953.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:00 amDoes this happen before England games too?Uncle fester wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 amWales are a pretty up and down team, even at the best of times.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:32 am
Yet in the 6 Nations you hope to win the whole thing.... so why so pessimistic that even your best team would be hammered against NZ? I hope the Welsh players don't think like this or they are stuffed before they even take the field...
They've deliberately scheduled a test outside of the international window and won't pay PRL to get extra player access like the RFU do. Same always.Ymx wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:11 am Think Wales are struggling to get their players released from English clubs.
'm not sure I'd call that struggling to get their players released so much as willfully not doing anything to ensure their availability,
Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:32 amYet in the 6 Nations you hope to win the whole thing.... so why so pessimistic that even your best team would be hammered against NZ? I hope the Welsh players don't think like this or they are stuffed before they even take the field...Wyndham Upalot wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:08 am We're going to be rammed. Even with our first choice players, we'd be outclassed, expect a blitz like score.
The 6N is weird beast in a way, you can feel more confident against the devil you know.
France haven't really been competitive for a decade or so, that old cliché about not knowing which French team would turn up wasn't really true for a long time, it was always going to be the very flaky, very poor French team. They look very different now that their magnificent U20s from a couple of years ago are stepping up to the full side.
Scotland haven't been competitive since the game went pro and 5N became 6N (we are still the reigning 5N Champions), Italy are still struggling, so from a long time the competition has been between Ireland Wales and England.
Without looking things up, I would bet that each of those were successful when they had home games against the other, they could be confident of beating Italy and Scotland away, win four games and you are in with a shout at the championship, .
Yet you seem to beat SA and Australia now and then... not such a mental block?Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:31 amGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:32 amYet in the 6 Nations you hope to win the whole thing.... so why so pessimistic that even your best team would be hammered against NZ? I hope the Welsh players don't think like this or they are stuffed before they even take the field...Wyndham Upalot wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:08 am We're going to be rammed. Even with our first choice players, we'd be outclassed, expect a blitz like score.
The 6N is weird beast in a way, you can feel more confident against the devil you know.
France haven't really been competitive for a decade or so, that old cliché about not knowing which French team would turn up wasn't really true for a long time, it was always going to be the very flaky, very poor French team. They look very different now that their magnificent U20s from a couple of years ago are stepping up to the full side.
Scotland haven't been competitive since the game went pro and 5N became 6N (we are still the reigning 5N Champions), Italy are still struggling, so from a long time the competition has been between Ireland Wales and England.
Without looking things up, I would bet that each of those were successful when they had home games against the other, they could be confident of beating Italy and Scotland away, win four games and you are in with a shout at the championship, .
So it's all mental really...sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:29 amNot to the same extent, but then again they've beaten us as recently as last year. They know it can be done. They haven't turned your lot over since 1953.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:00 amDoes this happen before England games too?Uncle fester wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:40 am
Wales are a pretty up and down team, even at the best of times.
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sockwithaticket
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In all seriousness, yeah. The mental side of things is huge. At this point, with so many losses behind them I can't imagine how Italy prepare themselves for a test against a tier 1 nation. No matter how much you psyche yourself up it must be bloody hard not to let the thoughts creep into your head that no matter what you do it'll be a loss.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:35 amSo it's all mental really...sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:29 amNot to the same extent, but then again they've beaten us as recently as last year. They know it can be done. They haven't turned your lot over since 1953.
There was about a decade where England couldn't for love nor money actually beat the Boks. We lost some real close ones and even managed a draw, but the wins were elusive and the longer that goes on the more it must prey on the mind.
So, imagine a losing streak stretching back almost 70 years!
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tabascoboy
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Even the famous Llanelli win is now nearly 50 years ago...
Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:34 amYet you seem to beat SA and Australia now and then... not such a mental block?Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:31 amGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:32 am
Yet in the 6 Nations you hope to win the whole thing.... so why so pessimistic that even your best team would be hammered against NZ? I hope the Welsh players don't think like this or they are stuffed before they even take the field...
The 6N is weird beast in a way, you can feel more confident against the devil you know.
France haven't really been competitive for a decade or so, that old cliché about not knowing which French team would turn up wasn't really true for a long time, it was always going to be the very flaky, very poor French team. They look very different now that their magnificent U20s from a couple of years ago are stepping up to the full side.
Scotland haven't been competitive since the game went pro and 5N became 6N (we are still the reigning 5N Champions), Italy are still struggling, so from a long time the competition has been between Ireland Wales and England.
Without looking things up, I would bet that each of those were successful when they had home games against the other, they could be confident of beating Italy and Scotland away, win four games and you are in with a shout at the championship, .
It's long and bitter story, the SRU fucked up professionalism big time, even now there are loud voices in the game in Scotland (not the SRU now btw) who advocate scrapping the two professional teams we have and giving the money to the clubs. They are fuckwits.
As result we've struggled to produce player of the quality needed to compete at the highest level, hence the Kilted Kiwis and JockBoks, but we are improving on that front, I won't go into it all here.
We do have our day occasionally, but then again South Africa lost to Italy and Oz have been rank at times, they have had a large trough to peak swing in the last 20 years or so.
Ireland was even longer... until that fateful day in Chicago. Then did it again a couple of years later. But Scotland and Wales are still in that "are we really good enough to do it" zone... and I agree it is difficult to snap...sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:40 amIn all seriousness, yeah. The mental side of things is huge. At this point, with so many losses behind them I can't imagine how Italy prepare themselves for a test against a tier 1 nation. No matter how much you psyche yourself up it must be bloody hard not to let the thoughts creep into your head that no matter what you do it'll be a loss.Grandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:35 amSo it's all mental really...sockwithaticket wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:29 am
Not to the same extent, but then again they've beaten us as recently as last year. They know it can be done. They haven't turned your lot over since 1953.
There was about a decade where England couldn't for love nor money actually beat the Boks. We lost some real close ones and even managed a draw, but the wins were elusive and the longer that goes on the more it must prey on the mind.
So, imagine a losing streak stretching back almost 70 years!
Scotland look world beaters sometimes (usually against England) ..maybe they don't hate NZ enough to beat them...Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:45 amGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:34 amYet you seem to beat SA and Australia now and then... not such a mental block?Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:31 am
The 6N is weird beast in a way, you can feel more confident against the devil you know.
France haven't really been competitive for a decade or so, that old cliché about not knowing which French team would turn up wasn't really true for a long time, it was always going to be the very flaky, very poor French team. They look very different now that their magnificent U20s from a couple of years ago are stepping up to the full side.
Scotland haven't been competitive since the game went pro and 5N became 6N (we are still the reigning 5N Champions), Italy are still struggling, so from a long time the competition has been between Ireland Wales and England.
Without looking things up, I would bet that each of those were successful when they had home games against the other, they could be confident of beating Italy and Scotland away, win four games and you are in with a shout at the championship, .
It's long and bitter story, the SRU fucked up professionalism big time, even now there are loud voices in the game in Scotland (not the SRU now btw) who advocate scrapping the two professional teams we have and giving the money to the clubs. They are fuckwits.
As result we've struggled to produce player of the quality needed to compete at the highest level, hence the Kilted Kiwis and JockBoks, but we are improving on that front, I won't go into it all here.
We do have our day occasionally, but then again South Africa lost to Italy and Oz have been rank at times, they have had a large trough to peak swing in the last 20 years or so.
Scotland: 15 Darcy Graham, 14 Kyle Steyn, 13 Sione Tuipulotu, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Rufus McLean, 10 Blair Kinghorn, 9 Ali Price, 8 Matt Fagerson, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Rob Harley, 4 Jamie Hodgson, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 George Turner, 1 Pierre Schoeman
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Jamie Bhatti, 18 Oli Kebble, 19 Marshall Sykes, 20 Luke Crosbie, 21 Nick Haining, 22 Jamie Dobie, 23 Ross Thompson
Date: Saturday, October 30
Venue: BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
Kick-off: 14.30 (13.30 GMT; 02.30 Sunday, October 31 Tonga time)
Referee: Nic Berry (RA)
Assistant Referees: Damon Murphy (RA) & Angus Gardner (RA)
TMO: Brett Cronan (RA)
It's their RWC final every yearGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:03 amScotland look world beaters sometimes (usually against England) ..maybe they don't hate NZ enough to beat them...Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:45 amGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:34 am
Yet you seem to beat SA and Australia now and then... not such a mental block?
It's long and bitter story, the SRU fucked up professionalism big time, even now there are loud voices in the game in Scotland (not the SRU now btw) who advocate scrapping the two professional teams we have and giving the money to the clubs. They are fuckwits.
As result we've struggled to produce player of the quality needed to compete at the highest level, hence the Kilted Kiwis and JockBoks, but we are improving on that front, I won't go into it all here.
We do have our day occasionally, but then again South Africa lost to Italy and Oz have been rank at times, they have had a large trough to peak swing in the last 20 years or so.
Bit like SA and NZ!SaintK wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11 pmIt's their RWC final every yearGrandpa wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:03 amScotland look world beaters sometimes (usually against England) ..maybe they don't hate NZ enough to beat them...Tichtheid wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:45 am
It's long and bitter story, the SRU fucked up professionalism big time, even now there are loud voices in the game in Scotland (not the SRU now btw) who advocate scrapping the two professional teams we have and giving the money to the clubs. They are fuckwits.
As result we've struggled to produce player of the quality needed to compete at the highest level, hence the Kilted Kiwis and JockBoks, but we are improving on that front, I won't go into it all here.
We do have our day occasionally, but then again South Africa lost to Italy and Oz have been rank at times, they have had a large trough to peak swing in the last 20 years or so.
WALES (vs New Zealand, Saturday)
15. Johnny McNicholl;
14. Owen Lane,
13. Jonathan Davies,
12. Johnny Williams,
11. Josh Adams;
10. Gareth Anscombe,
9. Tomos Williams;
1. Wyn Jones,
2. Ken Owens,
3. Tomas Francis,
4. Adam Beard,
5. Alun Wyn Jones (capt),
6. Ross Moriarty,
7. Taine Basham,
8. Aaron Wainwright.
Reps: 16. Ryan Elias, 17. Rhys Carre, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Will Rowlands, 20. Seb Davies, 21. Gareth Davies, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Ben Thomas.
15. Johnny McNicholl;
14. Owen Lane,
13. Jonathan Davies,
12. Johnny Williams,
11. Josh Adams;
10. Gareth Anscombe,
9. Tomos Williams;
1. Wyn Jones,
2. Ken Owens,
3. Tomas Francis,
4. Adam Beard,
5. Alun Wyn Jones (capt),
6. Ross Moriarty,
7. Taine Basham,
8. Aaron Wainwright.
Reps: 16. Ryan Elias, 17. Rhys Carre, 18. Dillon Lewis, 19. Will Rowlands, 20. Seb Davies, 21. Gareth Davies, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Ben Thomas.
Ardie was only ever shoe horned in at 8. But everyone seems to have convinced themselves he’s best at 8.Grandpa wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:54 pm From the way Plumtree was talking, they see Ardie Savea's best position as 8... so does that mean Paplii at 7 and Akira or Jacobson at 6?
I think BB will start at 10 even though I would prefer Mo'unga...
For me he really let himself down leading the back row and team.
Who would be your top back row if fully fit?
Jacobson - 8
Cane - at full strength and not captain-7
Ioane - staying in tight - 6
Bench - Ardie
Last edited by Ymx on Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That’s a very big call on BB!
I disagree. And I appreciate you’re not saying that’s who you think should be playing there, just who Fozzie will pick.
He was found wanting against SA. He went brain dead. That cross kick from own 22 was the last straw of him navigating the ship for me.
I don’t see how that can be ignored.
I disagree. And I appreciate you’re not saying that’s who you think should be playing there, just who Fozzie will pick.
He was found wanting against SA. He went brain dead. That cross kick from own 22 was the last straw of him navigating the ship for me.
I don’t see how that can be ignored.
I certainly wouldn't start BB... but Fozzie seems very matey with him... and I can just see him picking him...Ymx wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:12 pm That’s a very big call on BB!
I disagree. And I appreciate you’re not saying that’s who you think should be playing there, just who Fozzie will pick.
He was found wanting against SA. He went brain dead. That cross kick from own 22 was the last straw of him navigating the ship for me.
I don’t see how that can be ignored.
As for the loosies... I like a real grafter at 6... so would pick Blackadder.... and Akira at 8... It suits him better, it's looser and allows him to make use of his carrying skills... then at 7... if Cane was super fit, then probably him for now. But by the WC will he be the player he was with all these injuries? I know you and Gumboot aren't keen on Papalii... but I would pick Dalton at 7 every time.. so that he gets better and better... he's still learning... and I just like the physicality he brings and the modern game seems to ask for that more and more rather than the classic fetcher role...
My thoughts anyway...
Who will Fozzie pick? Well if Ardie is at 8... then probably Papalii at 7 and Akira at 6? Or will Jacobson squeeze in there? We'll know at 5.00pm...
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Torquemada 1420
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NZ by more than it makes it worthwhile watching the game.
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Marylandolorian
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Who is broadcasting this game in the UK? Is it the same company for all the AI ?
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tabascoboy
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Think I saw that it's live on Amazon Prime for the UK
The matchday 23 is:
1. Joe Moody (54)
2. Codie Taylor (64)
3. Nepo Laulala (37)
4. Brodie Retallick (89)
5. Samuel Whitelock (128) – captain
6. Ethan Blackadder (7)
7. Dalton Papalii (10)
8. Ardie Savea (56)
9. TJ Perenara (76)
10. Beauden Barrett (99)
11. Rieko Ioane (44)
12. David Havili (11)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (54)
14. Will Jordan (10)
15. Jordie Barrett (32)
16. Samisoni Taukei’aho (7)
17. Karl Tu’inukuafe (23)
18. Tyrel Lomax (11)
19. Tupou Vaa’i (8)
20. Akira Ioane (10)
21. Brad Weber (14)
22. Richie Mo’unga (28)
23. Sevu Reece (14)
1. Joe Moody (54)
2. Codie Taylor (64)
3. Nepo Laulala (37)
4. Brodie Retallick (89)
5. Samuel Whitelock (128) – captain
6. Ethan Blackadder (7)
7. Dalton Papalii (10)
8. Ardie Savea (56)
9. TJ Perenara (76)
10. Beauden Barrett (99)
11. Rieko Ioane (44)
12. David Havili (11)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (54)
14. Will Jordan (10)
15. Jordie Barrett (32)
16. Samisoni Taukei’aho (7)
17. Karl Tu’inukuafe (23)
18. Tyrel Lomax (11)
19. Tupou Vaa’i (8)
20. Akira Ioane (10)
21. Brad Weber (14)
22. Richie Mo’unga (28)
23. Sevu Reece (14)
Flockwitt wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:22 pm BB is not our first choice 10 but actually I like the squad as picked. There is serious impact from that bench when we've been struggling to lift the game in the last 20.
You'll be out of sight by half time!I guess the one advantage we have is that BB is used to the terrible service given by TJPFlockwitt wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:22 pm BB is not our first choice 10 but actually I like the squad as picked. There is serious impact from that bench when we've been struggling to lift the game in the last 20.
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ScarfaceClaw
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And those people sitting in the second row will know they’ll see a lot of the ball via Beauden’s cross field kicks into touch.Ymx wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:36 pmI guess the one advantage we have is that BB is used to the terrible service given by TJPFlockwitt wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:22 pm BB is not our first choice 10 but actually I like the squad as picked. There is serious impact from that bench when we've been struggling to lift the game in the last 20.
Sam Cane himself has said he isn't ready for a tier 1 test... so wasn't considered. I suspect he'll play against Italy and that will probably be it as they ease him back...
ScarfaceClaw wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:48 pmAnd those people sitting in the second row will know they’ll see a lot of the ball via Beauden’s cross field kicks into touch.Ymx wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:36 pmI guess the one advantage we have is that BB is used to the terrible service given by TJPFlockwitt wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:22 pm BB is not our first choice 10 but actually I like the squad as picked. There is serious impact from that bench when we've been struggling to lift the game in the last 20.
Plumtree certainly gave that impression last week,... that the 8 role suits Savea better. And by picking him at 8 for this test I suspect it means they do think he is the best 8 in NZ... Sotutu must be wondering if he's behind Jacobson and Savea now...Kiwias wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:58 pm Does this mean that Foster views Savea as the best 8 in NZ? I still like the forward pack and the backs except for 9/10, and that is an impressive bench.
If that is their thinking and this is their first-choice backrow, then they damned well should play this three as often as possible. I still reckon Savea is a better 7 than 8 and definitely a better 7 than Papali'i. It does make things tough for Sotutu.Grandpa wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:01 pmPlumtree certainly gave that impression last week,... that the 8 role suits Savea better. And by picking him at 8 for this test I suspect it means they do think he is the best 8 in NZ... Sotutu must be wondering if he's behind Jacobson and Savea now...Kiwias wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:58 pm Does this mean that Foster views Savea as the best 8 in NZ? I still like the forward pack and the backs except for 9/10, and that is an impressive bench.
I'm very pleased to see Rieko Ioane in his best position.