Springbokke EYT NH match threads

[OomStruisbaai]

Decided to make one thread for this.

6 November


17:30 GMT (UTC+0) Wales v South Africa - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Paul Williams (NZR)
Assistant Referee 1: Andrew Brace (IRFU)
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman (NZR)
TMO: Olly Hodges (IRFU)

13 November

13:00 GMT (UTC+0) Scotland v South Africa - Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Angus Gardner (RA)
Assistant Referee 1: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Craig Evans (WRU)
TMO: Brett Cronan (RA)

20 November
15:15 GMT (UTC+0) England v South Africa - Twickenham Stadium, London
Referee: Andrew Brace (IRFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Angus Gardner (RA)
Assistant Referee 2: Frank Murphy (IRFU)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (IRFU)

[OomStruisbaai]

The first one will be the toughest. Springbokke will be rusty and struggle always in the first one after a lay off.

Wales will be spoiled for choise.

Replacement for Faf and Nkosi since the All Blacks.

[Sandstorm]

Nee Oom, kak thread. Make a new match thread each Monday instead.

[OomStruisbaai]

Springbok head coach Jacques Nienaber is expected to announce the matchday 23 to face Wales on Tuesday.

[FalseBayFC]

They are staying and practicing near Paris .

Those jerseys should have an epilepsy trigger warning.

[assfly]

Rumours of Fassi starting. Not sure if him or Willie will be 15.

[Insane_Homer]

[ia801310]

They could have called up Tyrone Green

[assfly]

They could have called up Tyrone Green

This is a very tough Bok squad to get into. Even with Willemse's poor form of late, they seem intend on bringing him in. I thought we'd long given up on him being a 15, but we're back here again.

But given Green's incredible form under the high-ball, they won't be able to ignore him for long. Willemse is going to have to field some serious kicks on Saturday.

[JM2K6]

Nah, Green would get munched at international level. Best he just stays at Quins for 5 years or so to learn the trade.

[Chilli]

Jesse Kriel and Wazza?

Rassie must be back on the snow again. ☹

[Sandstorm]

Nah, Green would get munched at international level. Best he just stays at Quins for 5 years or so to learn the trade.

[Sandstorm]

Jesse Kriel and Wazza?

Rassie must be back on the snow again. ☹

Wazza will be fine, but Turnstile Jessie is going to be a big issue down that flank. Then later we'll finish with 14 men after Wiese gets another card.

[OomStruisbaai]

At least Willie got dropped. No Fassi?

[handyman]

No Eskom?

[boere wors]

What is the point of having Jesse on the wing??

Edit: just realized, no other specialist wing in the squad, right?! Specman back in CPT...

[SaintK]

Nah, Green would get munched at international level. Best he just stays at Quins for 5 years or so to learn the trade.

[FalseBayFC]

What is the point of having Jesse on the wing??

Edit: just realized, no other specialist wing in the squad, right?! Specman back in CPT...

He's been selected for his beach muscles don't you know. I was not the creator of this video which only has 153 views.

[boere wors]

What is the point of having Jesse on the wing??

Edit: just realized, no other specialist wing in the squad, right?! Specman back in CPT...

He's been selected for his beach muscles don't you know. I was not the creator of this video which only has 153 views.

"The Machine"... great video. I actually like "Superhuman Centre" even better... what a force we have there on the wing...

[Sards]

And this is the reason why I lose interest. Nienaber is vokking Fassi over. It's a career killer for him to constantly hope to get another opportunity when he was outstanding in both his starts and Nienaber is insistent on trying to find a fit for other players in the bok squad . The message is loud and clear.

[Chilli]

What is the point of having Jesse on the wing??

Edit: just realized, no other specialist wing in the squad, right?! Specman back in CPT...

He's been selected for his beach muscles don't you know. I was not the creator of this video which only has 153 views.

Sards probably watched on 138 times.

[FalseBayFC]

What is the point of having Jesse on the wing??

Edit: just realized, no other specialist wing in the squad, right?! Specman back in CPT...

He's been selected for his beach muscles don't you know. I was not the creator of this video which only has 153 views.

Sards probably watched on 138 times.

And who wouldn't watch it a few times for his trapezius action alone?

[FalseBayFC]

And this is the reason why I lose interest. Nienaber is vokking Fassi over. It's a career killer for him to constantly hope to get another opportunity when he was outstanding in both his starts and Nienaber is insistent on trying to find a fit for other players in the bok squad . The message is loud and clear.

Fassi's time will come. But I'm dying to see him in the Sharks lineup for URC.

[OomStruisbaai]

Please use this thread
http://notplanetrugby.com/viewtopic.php ... 6eeed213f3

[handyman]

And this is the reason why I lose interest. Nienaber is vokking Fassi over. It's a career killer for him to constantly hope to get another opportunity when he was outstanding in both his starts and Nienaber is insistent on trying to find a fit for other players in the bok squad . The message is loud and clear.

Fassi's time will come. But I'm dying to see him in the Sharks lineup for URC.

Never mind.

[OomStruisbaai]

And this is the reason why I lose interest. Nienaber is vokking Fassi over. It's a career killer for him to constantly hope to get another opportunity when he was outstanding in both his starts and Nienaber is insistent on trying to find a fit for other players in the bok squad . The message is loud and clear.

Fassi's time will come. But I'm dying to see him in the Sharks lineup for URC.

Would you pick a player who can't even manage to sort out a passport?

You got the wrong Shark player Boet.

[handyman]

Fassi's time will come. But I'm dying to see him in the Sharks lineup for URC.

Never mind.

You got the wrong Shark player Boet.

Ah, was Nkosi.

[handyman]

Wales seem to have the upper hand over South Africa in games that don't matter in Wales. Let's hope we can pull one back on Saturday.

[Blake]

Even with Willemse's poor form of late, they seem intend on bringing him in. I thought we'd long given up on him being a 15, but we're back here again.

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

[boere wors]

Even with Willemse's poor form of late, they seem intend on bringing him in. I thought we'd long given up on him being a 15, but we're back here again.

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

This year he has started one game where he was dull, made a couple of 15min cameos which were dull as well including one where he missed a late penalty right in front of the posts to cost us a game in australia... solid. Assfly is correct, we are back in developing a player at test level that has never really performed for his club/province let alone made one position his own. Meanwhile, in the position he is starting in, we have two outstanding performers for their clubs, namely Fassi and Tyrone Green. Instead of giving them the deserved run, we force Willemse in. Even more so, to allow him into that position, we are playing an experienced player out of position on the wing.

[OomStruisbaai]

Even with Willemse's poor form of late, they seem intend on bringing him in. I thought we'd long given up on him being a 15, but we're back here again.

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

This year he has started one game where he was dull, made a couple of 15min cameos which were dull as well including one where he missed a late penalty right in front of the posts to cost us a game in australia... solid. Assfly is correct, we are back in developing a player at test level that has never really performed for his club/province let alone made one position his own. Meanwhile, in the position he is starting in, we have two outstanding performers for their clubs, namely Fassi and Tyrone Green. Instead of giving them the deserved run, we force Willemse in. Even more so, to allow him into that position, we are playing an experienced player out of position on the wing.

NieNaber will obviously don't make sense to you

SA Rugbymag

Springbok head coach Jacques Nienaber has shed further light on the decision to play Damian Willemse ahead of Aphelele Fassi and Willie le Roux at fullback against Wales on Saturday. DYLAN JACK reports.

When it became apparent that Sbu Nkosi would not play in Saturday’s Test due to travel issues, there was plenty of debate over who should come into the starting lineup at wing, with many favouring the promising Fassi, who lit the field up on debut against Georgia earlier this year.

However, Willemse, who has 14 Test caps, will earn just his fourth start in the green and gold when he runs out at fullback in a rotational swap with Le Roux missing out entirely.

Meanwhile, Jesse Kriel will start on the right wing, with Fassi missing out on the match-day 23.

“Every player brings something different,” Nienaber said, when asked about the changes during a media conference.

“When we did the team announcement in front of the team, I said I was going to be as honest as I can be. Willie has played the majority of Test matches since 2018 and we know what we have with him. If we had to play a World Cup final on the weekend, we would probably select Willie because of his experience and what he has done for us in the past.

“This is an ideal situation to give Damian an opportunity. We haven’t given him an extended opportunity where he can actually play and settle himself into the fullback position. We felt that this was a great opportunity. We said to Willie that he must help us develop Damian and Aphelele. It’s a little side project and Willie is providing as much information as he can to them.

“Saying that, all three are different players with different skill sets. Obviously, they will have to bring their own specialness to the game and find a foothold in the game that suits their style.”

When probed further over whether the Springbok coaches see Willemse as the future fullback, Nienaber said they decided this weekend was an ideal to give him a well-deserved start.

“We will constantly try and put our France 2023 cap on, without making Test caps easy. You must always work hard to get a Test cap and the players do.

“When we announced the team, I asked Damian how many Tests he has played in and it was 13 going on 14 now. I asked him how many times he had started and he only has had three starts until now: England in 2018, then in 2019 he started against Canada and then he started this year against Argentina. So, you really have to work hard to get a start here.

“I had this conversation in front of Aphelele and the whole team. I said to Aphelele, that’s the thing, Damian has waited since 2018, he has been in our mix, working hard and really training well. He gets an opportunity here and there.

“We feel it’s time now. He has been in the mix for three years, training with us and knows our systems. We feel that he has deserved an opportunity. But that’s the nice thing about the squad. This conversation was in front of the whole team and a guy like Willie bought in completely. He will feed the little detail during the week in how he builds and prepares and pass it to these guys. It’s a wonderful position to be in.”

Nienaber added that while Fassi was disappointed to miss out, there still could be an opportunity for him to play in the remaining two Tests of the Outgoing Tour against Scotland and England.

“We had a nice discussion as coaches this morning. It’s tough to leave somebody out of this team currently and we are fortunate to be in that position. You really have to work hard, be patient and continue working hard to get a shot in the 23.

“It was tough because he obviously has skill sets and attributes that he brings to the party. On the question of will we play him on this tour, there will never be a never. Obviously, we have a specific plan for these three games in our heads. But, as you know with rugby, the ball is not round, it’s oval and you get real bouncers sometimes.

“If things go according to plan, there might be an opportunity. But things might change and we might go a completely different route. We have a plan in our head. It wasn’t an easy decision and it was a well-discussed topic in terms of this team selection. Winning is still our main priority.

“Everybody here takes it well, because we are open and honest. There are no one-on-ones. We literally do the team selection and explanation in front of everybody. So, Aphelele doesn’t wonder what I told Damian or Willie. We speak openly and honestly about the team selection in front of everybody so we all understand our thought process.

“It’s competitive, so there is disappointment. There must be disappointment. If you are not disappointed to not make the match-day 23, you shouldn’t be here. But the moment you are not selected, you job is not done. You now have another job, to prepare this team and to give input to the 23 that is selected.

“So Aphelele was disappointed, as was Willie not to be selected on a rotational basis, but you get over it quickly and get on with the next job.”

Damian have been solid at 15 for his province.

[handyman]

Even with Willemse's poor form of late, they seem intend on bringing him in. I thought we'd long given up on him being a 15, but we're back here again.

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

This year he has started one game where he was dull, made a couple of 15min cameos which were dull as well including one where he missed a late penalty right in front of the posts to cost us a game in australia... solid. Assfly is correct, we are back in developing a player at test level that has never really performed for his club/province let alone made one position his own. Meanwhile, in the position he is starting in, we have two outstanding performers for their clubs, namely Fassi and Tyrone Green. Instead of giving them the deserved run, we force Willemse in. Even more so, to allow him into that position, we are playing an experienced player out of position on the wing.

I think that Fassi is a bit of a one trick pony. Yes, amazing with ball in hand, we can all agree on that. Kicking out of hand, kicking for poles, defence, all areas where he is lacking.

[FalseBayFC]

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

This year he has started one game where he was dull, made a couple of 15min cameos which were dull as well including one where he missed a late penalty right in front of the posts to cost us a game in australia... solid. Assfly is correct, we are back in developing a player at test level that has never really performed for his club/province let alone made one position his own. Meanwhile, in the position he is starting in, we have two outstanding performers for their clubs, namely Fassi and Tyrone Green. Instead of giving them the deserved run, we force Willemse in. Even more so, to allow him into that position, we are playing an experienced player out of position on the wing.

I think that Fassi is a bit of a one trick pony. Yes, amazing with ball in hand, we can all agree on that. Kicking out of hand, kicking for poles, defence, all areas where he is lacking.

LOL
Defence
He is amazing under the high ball. He has the pace, wingspan and leverage to be a very good touchline defender. I haven't seen any particular weaknesses in his positional play or tackling. Mapimpi was a very poor defender out wide until he learned the patterns. The English back 3 ate him up in two games that I recall.
Kicking
His tactical kicking is pretty good. He has a good chip kick, stab trough/grubber. Touch finders are a work on. He does have a big boot on him though and apparently Patrick Lambie has been working on his kicking with him at the Sharks and been impressed by him. Not sure about his place kicking. I wouldn't be surprised if he can do it, he's a very good footballer.

He's been massively hyped but outside of Kolbe is the most exciting attacking rugby player in SA. Damien Willemse is being given a chance which is fair because he also a lot of talent. Willemse needs to settle on a position though. I'm still not sure where that might be. Maybe at 12. We also have Warrick Gelant starting to deliver on his promise. Fullback/Utility Back stocks looking good for 2023. And then there's also Curwin. Don't forget about Curwin... and Tyrone Greene. And the Kriel bros from the Bulls.

[assfly]

When was this?

He’s been pretty solid in his last couple of Bok outings? Unless I messed a bad game he was having somewhere?

I wouldn't call any of his recent outings as solid by any stretch of the imagination. His cameos off the bench have been average at best, and I feel have taken up the space of better players. We still don't know what his best position is; 10, 12 or 15? And his reward is a starting spot against Wales.

[FalseBayFC]

Percy Montgomery started at 13 for us at age 23 against the '97 and went on to become the best fullback we've had since re-admission (yes better than Joubert). Young Percy was farking fast though. Damien has a wicked step and good acceleration but I just don't think he is quick enough to play back 3.

[boere wors]

In Willemse we are trying to develop a player at test level. Which is wrong. A player needs to excell in one position for his club/province, which then warrants his selection for the national squad. Thats the way it should be. It doesnt apply for Willemse. He hasnt even found his position. We currently have 3 players that would warrant selection at fullback: Tyrone Green, Fassi and Gelant. They have done what is necessary. They should get a chance at the boks. And not be messed with as in case of Fassi for months on tour, waiting behind a not performing player like Willie le Roux, only to be surpassed by Willemse out of nowhere when it would have been his turn. The national squad is in general not an exclusive club where only some selected few are granted access. It should be open for the country's best in the respective position, and constantly built and developed around those. However, our coaching staff never exited the tournament mindset of having 30 or 40 selected players which have to do the job and no one else gets in or out. "We know what they have done for us in the past"... Imagine that mindset in the All Blacks. They are ruthless and open in their selections for talent. Perform at Super Rugby and you are in and brought up to speed. Perform no longer, someone else will happily take your jersey. And will be given the chance he deserves.

[Sards]

whatever

[average joe]

In Willemse we are trying to develop a player at test level. Which is wrong. A player needs to excell in one position for his club/province, which then warrants his selection for the national squad. Thats the way it should be. It doesnt apply for Willemse. He hasnt even found his position. We currently have 3 players that would warrant selection at fullback: Tyrone Green, Fassi and Gelant. They have done what is necessary. They should get a chance at the boks. And not be messed with as in case of Fassi for months on tour, waiting behind a not performing player like Willie le Roux, only to be surpassed by Willemse out of nowhere when it would have been his turn. The national squad is in general not an exclusive club where only some selected few are granted access. It should be open for the country's best in the respective position, and constantly built and developed around those. However, our coaching staff never exited the tournament mindset of having 30 or 40 selected players which have to do the job and no one else gets in or out. "We know what they have done for us in the past"... Imagine that mindset in the All Blacks. They are ruthless and open in their selections for talent. Perform at Super Rugby and you are in and brought up to speed. Perform no longer, someone else will happily take your jersey. And will be given the chance he deserves.

Willemse has been in and around the team as long as Fassi has been playing senior rugby. Do you think it fair that a first year rookie jumps someone that's been waiting for a proper chance since 2018? If you said Gelant I'd probably agree but Gelant has been a walking sick note for so long I don't know. He's like Goosen, so much talent but always broken.

I don't know where you get the idea that the AB's play musical chairs with their players. Yes they bring talent through but they faze them in over time. Go look at guys like McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Whitelock, Ben Smith. These guys were around for ages and only got replaced when they retired. Some of them even underperformed in Super Rugby but still made the team. Look at Nonu, played like crap for whatever team he played for in super rugby but an absolute monster for the AB's.

Team synergy is very important in rugby, especially in the backs. You don't just chop and change players with every one hit wonder out there on national level. If he's really that good, Fassi will get his chance sooner or later.

[average joe]

Percy Montgomery started at 13 for us at age 23 against the '97 and went on to become the best fullback we've had since re-admission (yes better than Joubert). Young Percy was farking fast though. Damien has a wicked step and good acceleration but I just don't think he is quick enough to play back 3.

Percy only got good when he came back from Wales. He was a fokon pea-hart though. I remember one game for the Sharks that I watched with my uncle. He had a clean break for the line with only the opposition 15 in sight, He was so scared he chucked the fokon ball over his head. My uncle use to call him pussy Montgomery after that.

[handyman]

Why would Rassie and Nienaber not play the best team? The better the teams perform and the more tests the Boks win, the better for them. To me, it's clear, they just don't think that Fassi is the best player in his position.

As a coaching team that brought the Boks from nowhere to win the RWC, the Lions and a long period as world number 1, I think we should respect that decision.