So, coronavirus...

[petej]

Dpedin, we aren't at stage of the pandemic where we would gain much by doing those things. The vaccines and the level of prior infections, and delta basically make it pretty much impossible to control. The vast majority who are now vaccinated and/or been infected show minimum symptoms or symptoms similar to a standard winter cold (symptom shift has been covered well by the Zoe COVID app group). We are not an immune naive population anymore. I would add that I was very much a zero (though I prefer minimum) COVID type while we waited for vaccines and treatments. We have vaccines and treatments (and variants) so my position has shifted. Noticeably new Zealand couldn't eradicate delta in a immune naive population where you get the more unique symptoms and are shifting to removing restrictions post vaccination.

[robmatic]

Dpedin, we aren't at stage of the pandemic where we would gain much by doing those things. The vaccines and the level of prior infections, and delta basically make it pretty much impossible to control. The vast majority who are now vaccinated and/or been infected show minimum symptoms or symptoms similar to a standard winter cold (symptom shift has been covered well by the Zoe COVID app group). We are not an immune naive population anymore. I would add that I was very much a zero (though I prefer minimum) COVID type while we waited for vaccines and treatments. We have vaccines and treatments (and variants) so my position has shifted. Noticeably new Zealand couldn't eradicate delta in a immune naive population where you get the more unique symptoms and are shifting to removing restrictions post vaccination.

Also worth noting that cases, hospital admissions and deaths are all trending down at the moment.

[salanya]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

[Sandstorm]

Frankly I find it amazing and shocking that not one medical person told Boris to “wear a mask or get the fuck out of here, mate”

[petej]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

The NHS will creak regardless it has been intentionally run down and operated using a lean methodology over the last 10 years which eliminated any excess capacity it might have had.

Lean this lean that and then management surprise when it falls over is boring. Times have moved on there is actually bugger all you can really cut. Really needs to be a management mentality shift. The stupid cost cutting corners I've seen as an engineer. Want to see funny cost cutting in aerospace go laugh at Boeing and the 737max and Rolls-Royce and the Trent 1000.

[salanya]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

The NHS will creak regardless it has been intentionally run down and operated using a lean methodology over the last 10 years which eliminated any excess capacity it might have had.

Lean this lean that and then management surprise when it falls over is boring. Times have moved on there is actually bugger all you can really cut. Really needs to be a management mentality shift. The stupid cost cutting corners I've seen as an engineer. Want to see funny cost cutting in aerospace go laugh at Boeing and the 737max and Rolls-Royce and the Trent 1000.

Totally agree that the NHS was creaking before the pandemic, and the cost cutting and government attitudes made that worse. And that's still forgetting the Brexit impact with the loss of a good number of staff.

The tiny problem is that most people rely on the NHS. And the further it's pushed, the costlier it'll be and the longer it will take to fix it (assuming the positive scenario in which that is the active intention). So tax payers will have worse healthcare whilst being the ones to pay more to even get it to stay afloat, nevermind fix it.
All a bit depressing.

[Tichtheid]

The last couple of post from petej and salaya echo what I hear from friends who work in the NHS from managerial roles to frontline ward care - the depressing thing is that the NHS is being treated like the utilities, underfund and run it down so that privatisation is seen as a necessary change in approach.

[dpedin]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

Agreed - covid is not like the flu! This is a dangerous comparison many make, whilst both are respiratory type illnesses with overlapping sets of symptoms, they are caused by very different viruses. Covid is currently 7 -10 times more deadly than flu and has a far higher incidence of ongoing long term health impacts on folk even those who have had mild infections. We have a vaccine for covid that is significantly more effective than the flu virus. We do not need to have covid circulating around our communities unchecked over winter and accept the death rates from an avoidable disease that we have. A better analogy or comparison for covid is measles and look how we have dealt with that - mass vaccination of all kids and responding to outbreaks - that usually occur when the vaccine rates drop below the target 95%. Whilst I think we all accept covid will become endemic in our society the way we get there is important and I am not sure why we think it is acceptable to let covid run unchecked before we get the levels of vaccination up to where they need to be. We need to push harder on vaccinations - boosters, kids and those eligible but yet still unvaccinated - and protect the rest of the population using some simple basic PH mitigations over the winter so that by spring we should see major improvements in case numbers, hospitalisations and death rates. Over 1,000 deaths a week plus long covid cases, as yet unrecorded officially, for me is too high a collateral damage for the lack of a sensible PH strategy and proper leadership.

[Tichtheid]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

Agreed - covid is not like the flu! This is a dangerous comparison many make, whilst both are respiratory type illnesses with overlapping sets of symptoms, they are caused by very different viruses. Covid is currently 7 -10 times more deadly than flu and has a far higher incidence of ongoing long term health impacts on folk even those who have had mild infections. We have a vaccine for covid that is significantly more effective than the flu virus. We do not need to have covid circulating around our communities unchecked over winter and accept the death rates from an avoidable disease that we have. A better analogy or comparison for covid is measles and look how we have dealt with that - mass vaccination of all kids and responding to outbreaks - that usually occur when the vaccine rates drop below the target 95%. Whilst I think we all accept covid will become endemic in our society the way we get there is important and I am not sure why we think it is acceptable to let covid run unchecked before we get the levels of vaccination up to where they need to be. We need to push harder on vaccinations - boosters, kids and those eligible but yet still unvaccinated - and protect the rest of the population using some simple basic PH mitigations over the winter so that by spring we should see major improvements in case numbers, hospitalisations and death rates. Over 1,000 deaths a week plus long covid cases, as yet unrecorded officially, for me is too high a collateral damage for the lack of a sensible PH strategy and proper leadership.

That Wakefield character has a lot to answer for, was there so much resistance to vaccination before that MMR stuff?

[dpedin]

There is still the concern that the NHS are creaking, and the extra Covid cases and hospitalisations - although thankfully fewer due to the vaccine - will impact on this further. And winter hasn't started yet. Just because we're not on 50k cases anymore, doesn't mean that 30k cases a day is neglible, nor is around 150 people dying of Covid each day on average.

The economy and social wellbeing have suffered and can't be sacrificed any longer, and we're definitely in a place where we don't need to panic about Covid anymore, but we should be taking it serious. I feel that the media are tired of the coverage (and it probably doesn't sell as much anymore), and the government know that any focus on Covid will remind people of the bad decisions they made throughout the pandemic, especially as the shine of the vaccines has dimmed now. But just because we don't see it anymore, doesn't mean that there aren't families losing loved ones way ahead of their time (mostly unvaccinated but also some vaccinated people, of all ages), but also doctors and nurses who have to work through the increased loads and have to delay other procedures etc.

There will be a point where we will have to live with Covid like we do with flu (assuming no further evil mutations), but it's not this side of winter. And even though the responsibility of behaving well to mitigate Covid now sits with people, the population do need reminding of the behaviours, the seriousness of Covid and the impact on wider society/the NHS. Politicians not wearing masks in a packed room with 200 people for example, or the PM not wearing a mask inside a hospital (I don't care if it was a corridor), is not setting the example to take Covid serious.

The NHS will creak regardless it has been intentionally run down and operated using a lean methodology over the last 10 years which eliminated any excess capacity it might have had.

Lean this lean that and then management surprise when it falls over is boring. Times have moved on there is actually bugger all you can really cut. Really needs to be a management mentality shift. The stupid cost cutting corners I've seen as an engineer. Want to see funny cost cutting in aerospace go laugh at Boeing and the 737max and Rolls-Royce and the Trent 1000.

Agreed - there has been a deliberate strategy to run down the NHS since 2010 and we now see the impact. Hospitals run most effectively and efficiently when they operate at c85% bed occupancy rates - many of our hospitals have been running at 95%+ and this leads to chaos and mayhem and more inefficient working and throughput. Unfortunately and even more worrying is the lack of investment in developing the workforce - the numbers of docs, nurses, midwifes, radiographers, physiologists, etc in training has been badly mismanaged and will take many years to resolve given the timescales to train these professionals. We cannot compete in the international labour market as we are becoming less attractive place to work and the market is very difficult anyway with severe shortages worldwide. The obvious Tory plan to expand the role of the private sector is also seriously flawed as they don't train these professional staff and will suffer the same difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff. They will clearly increase wages to attract and then pass on these additional costs to the state so we will end up with a smaller and more expensive overall service. If you can afford it you will be ok the rest ...

[petej]

Agreed - covid is not like the flu! This is a dangerous comparison many make, whilst both are respiratory type illnesses with overlapping sets of symptoms, they are caused by very different viruses. Covid is currently 7 -10 times more deadly than flu and has a far higher incidence of ongoing long term health impacts on folk even those who have had mild infections. We have a vaccine for covid that is significantly more effective than the flu virus. We do not need to have covid circulating around our communities unchecked over winter and accept the death rates from an avoidable disease that we have. A better analogy or comparison for covid is measles and look how we have dealt with that - mass vaccination of all kids and responding to outbreaks - that usually occur when the vaccine rates drop below the target 95%. Whilst I think we all accept covid will become endemic in our society the way we get there is important and I am not sure why we think it is acceptable to let covid run unchecked before we get the levels of vaccination up to where they need to be. We need to push harder on vaccinations - boosters, kids and those eligible but yet still unvaccinated - and protect the rest of the population using some simple basic PH mitigations over the winter so that by spring we should see major improvements in case numbers, hospitalisations and death rates. Over 1,000 deaths a week plus long covid cases, as yet unrecorded officially, for me is too high a collateral damage for the lack of a sensible PH strategy and proper leadership.

COVID is not like the flu. Far less nasty to the very young. Post vaccine and/or infection the risk is very comparable to flu for the adult population and not the multiples you state which applies to an immune naive population (and varies hugely with age). The reasons why young children haven't been vaccinated is because the vaccination is a greater risk to them than COVID (as the jcvi has published and stated).You should realise that the vaccinations which reduce the symptoms and get rid of the more unique symptoms would make COVID increasingly difficult to trace and control and delta has only made it harder. I've read the ONS antigen and antibody population prevalence studies when they are updated which give some really useful info. PHE also output some excellent reports this PHE scientist usually links them https://mobile.twitter.com/kallmemeg.

The EU countries are going to have the same issues as us (we should swap out the lions for canaries) when heading towards an endemic state (look at Denmark and Germany recently). Denmark is in my opinion the country in the world that has managed covid most effectively.

One of the more interesting articles I've read in the last few months (in cell I think and annoyingly I can't find it) was on why only 4 coronaviruses (considering there are loads of them) are endemic in humans (prior to c19). Essentially, there isn't really space in which they can vary the spikes and how they infect to allow for more so they compete for their niche. So previously coronaviruses have likely been out competed and driven extinct.

FYI ONS have published data on long covid it was very reassuring as a parent of a young child.

[Calculon]

Will be in interesting to see if the coming northern hemisphere flu season is suppressed again due to , maybe viral interference with sarscov2, or possible reintroduction of mitigating measures.

From the perspective of someone living in my a country where only 20% of the population are fully vaccinated, and which is never going to reach the levels vaccinated seen in the UK, the idea that their vaccination levels are not where they need to be is kinda funny.

Fwiw, it seems to me some of the far eastern countries like south Korea , maybe Taiwan, Singapore etc have handled the pandemic the best

[Hal Jordan]

Have we done Aaron Rodgers being a lying twat, but getting a smaller fine from the NFL for his lies than Ceedee Lamb got for having his short untucked?

[dpedin]

Agreed - covid is not like the flu! This is a dangerous comparison many make, whilst both are respiratory type illnesses with overlapping sets of symptoms, they are caused by very different viruses. Covid is currently 7 -10 times more deadly than flu and has a far higher incidence of ongoing long term health impacts on folk even those who have had mild infections. We have a vaccine for covid that is significantly more effective than the flu virus. We do not need to have covid circulating around our communities unchecked over winter and accept the death rates from an avoidable disease that we have. A better analogy or comparison for covid is measles and look how we have dealt with that - mass vaccination of all kids and responding to outbreaks - that usually occur when the vaccine rates drop below the target 95%. Whilst I think we all accept covid will become endemic in our society the way we get there is important and I am not sure why we think it is acceptable to let covid run unchecked before we get the levels of vaccination up to where they need to be. We need to push harder on vaccinations - boosters, kids and those eligible but yet still unvaccinated - and protect the rest of the population using some simple basic PH mitigations over the winter so that by spring we should see major improvements in case numbers, hospitalisations and death rates. Over 1,000 deaths a week plus long covid cases, as yet unrecorded officially, for me is too high a collateral damage for the lack of a sensible PH strategy and proper leadership.

COVID is not like the flu. Far less nasty to the very young. Post vaccine and/or infection the risk is very comparable to flu for the adult population and not the multiples you state which applies to an immune naive population (and varies hugely with age). The reasons why young children haven't been vaccinated is because the vaccination is a greater risk to them than COVID (as the jcvi has published and stated).You should realise that the vaccinations which reduce the symptoms and get rid of the more unique symptoms would make COVID increasingly difficult to trace and control and delta has only made it harder. I've read the ONS antigen and antibody population prevalence studies when they are updated which give some really useful info. PHE also output some excellent reports this PHE scientist usually links them https://mobile.twitter.com/kallmemeg.

The EU countries are going to have the same issues as us (we should swap out the lions for canaries) when heading towards an endemic state (look at Denmark and Germany recently). Denmark is in my opinion the country in the world that has managed covid most effectively.

One of the more interesting articles I've read in the last few months (in cell I think and annoyingly I can't find it) was on why only 4 coronaviruses (considering there are loads of them) are endemic in humans (prior to c19). Essentially, there isn't really space in which they can vary the spikes and how they infect to allow for more so they compete for their niche. So previously coronaviruses have likely been out competed and driven extinct.

FYI ONS have published data on long covid it was very reassuring as a parent of a young child.

https://www.uspharmacist.com/article/co ... -influenza

[tabascoboy]

My GP surgery ran out of flu vaccine now, have to wait minimum 3 weeks or pay to have it done through private service at a pharmacy

[petej]

The number of uncertainties in that study. Vaccination status of COVID patients is known IE not vaccinated and no prior infection. Is that a controlled variable in the flu data set. It is an observational study.

[dpedin]

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... ccine.html

[dpedin]

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/sep/fir ... d-children

[salanya]

Aunty Beeb finger-pointing: 'look at all those Covid-infested Europeans, nothing to see here'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59262701

They'd be very fair to question the increase in European cases, or report how those countries are trying to deal with it.

But to summarise by saying the UK is bucking the trend after having consistently high numbers for months, and yes, thankfully a slight dip in the last week or so, is beyond a rose-tinted glasses interpretation.
Interesting that there are no graphs on Covid casualties, because why would they want to report and investigate that?!

This country is doomed with the kind of politicians and media it has at the moment. It deserves better.

[Saint]

My GP surgery ran out of flu vaccine now, have to wait minimum 3 weeks or pay to have it done through private service at a pharmacy

If you qualify for free flu vaccine, you qualify, full stop. Doesn't matter If you get it from the surgery or from a private pharmacy - the pharmacy can claim frombyge NHS.

GPs SHOULD know this, but many conveniently "forget"

[Dragster]

Aunty Beeb finger-pointing: 'look at all those Covid-infested Europeans, nothing to see here'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59262701

They'd be very fair to question the increase in European cases, or report how those countries are trying to deal with it.

But to summarise by saying the UK is bucking the trend after having consistently high numbers for months, and yes, thankfully a slight dip in the last week or so, is beyond a rose-tinted glasses interpretation.
Interesting that there are no graphs on Covid casualties, because why would they want to report and investigate that?!

This country is doomed with the kind of politicians and media it has at the moment. It deserves better.

Such a chronic bore.

[tabascoboy]

My GP surgery ran out of flu vaccine now, have to wait minimum 3 weeks or pay to have it done through private service at a pharmacy

If you qualify for free flu vaccine, you qualify, full stop. Doesn't matter If you get it from the surgery or from a private pharmacy - the pharmacy can claim frombyge NHS.

GPs SHOULD know this, but many conveniently "forget"

Hmm, Boots do offer the free NHS jab but local branch has no free time slots before 17 Dec! Next nearest branch has none before 5th Jan... Will check the independents too but not looking good.

[Saint]

My GP surgery ran out of flu vaccine now, have to wait minimum 3 weeks or pay to have it done through private service at a pharmacy

If you qualify for free flu vaccine, you qualify, full stop. Doesn't matter If you get it from the surgery or from a private pharmacy - the pharmacy can claim frombyge NHS.

GPs SHOULD know this, but many conveniently "forget"

Hmm, Boots do offer the free NHS jab but local branch has no free time slots before 17 Dec!

That's odd. A slot is a slot is a slot. The only difference should be if you need the elderly variant which is a different vaccine to the regular population, and has different supply chain issues.

Mrs Saintsman and I got ours at Boots on the first day of availability -- mine paid as I don't qualify for free, hers free as an NHS nurse. Just more paperwork for her to complete than me

[tabascoboy]

If you qualify for free flu vaccine, you qualify, full stop. Doesn't matter If you get it from the surgery or from a private pharmacy - the pharmacy can claim frombyge NHS.

GPs SHOULD know this, but many conveniently "forget"

Hmm, Boots do offer the free NHS jab but local branch has no free time slots before 17 Dec!

That's odd. A slot is a slot is a slot. The only difference should be if you need the elderly variant which is a different vaccine to the regular population, and has different supply chain issues.

Mrs Saintsman and I got ours at Boots on the first day of availability -- mine paid as I don't qualify for free, hers free as an NHS nurse. Just more paperwork for her to complete than me

Sorry, "free" was the wrong word - I should have said "available". Either the vaccine is suddenly in very short supply locally or they just aren't doing enough to keep up with demand

[salanya]

Aunty Beeb finger-pointing: 'look at all those Covid-infested Europeans, nothing to see here'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59262701

They'd be very fair to question the increase in European cases, or report how those countries are trying to deal with it.

But to summarise by saying the UK is bucking the trend after having consistently high numbers for months, and yes, thankfully a slight dip in the last week or so, is beyond a rose-tinted glasses interpretation.
Interesting that there are no graphs on Covid casualties, because why would they want to report and investigate that?!

This country is doomed with the kind of politicians and media it has at the moment. It deserves better.

Such a chronic bore.

Whereas your posts are always so insightful.

[Saint]

Hmm, Boots do offer the free NHS jab but local branch has no free time slots before 17 Dec!

That's odd. A slot is a slot is a slot. The only difference should be if you need the elderly variant which is a different vaccine to the regular population, and has different supply chain issues.

Mrs Saintsman and I got ours at Boots on the first day of availability -- mine paid as I don't qualify for free, hers free as an NHS nurse. Just more paperwork for her to complete than me

Sorry, "free" was the wrong word - I should have said "available". Either the vaccine is suddenly in very short supply locally or they just aren't doing enough to keep up with demand

Supply is going to be an issue, but labour to deliver is also going to be an issue. It's a good sign that you're booking 3-4 weeks out as it means take up is very high -- but this isn't an area where you can just scale up delivery, as even if you could get more supply we're also delivering 300k+ Covid jabs

In an ordinary flu season district nurses will still be chasing up people to deliver the jab into late Jan.

[Enzedder]

Covid is now in 6 areas here (counting Auckland as 1). Today we went past 90% of the population 12+ with their first jab.

With a tinge of feafulness, I say release the kraken (or give 2 weeks notice)

[tabascoboy]

[petej]

Aunty Beeb finger-pointing: 'look at all those Covid-infested Europeans, nothing to see here'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59262701

They'd be very fair to question the increase in European cases, or report how those countries are trying to deal with it.

But to summarise by saying the UK is bucking the trend after having consistently high numbers for months, and yes, thankfully a slight dip in the last week or so, is beyond a rose-tinted glasses interpretation.
Interesting that there are no graphs on Covid casualties, because why would they want to report and investigate that?!

This country is doomed with the kind of politicians and media it has at the moment. It deserves better.

Such a chronic bore.

Whereas your posts are always so insightful.

That BBC article is fine. The only slightly silly section is quoting Johnson and even that is mostly him encouraging people to get booster jabs. a bit from Prof Balloux who has been a very sensible voice and Dr Clarke who states international comparisons are never very useful at the end of the article.

This thread has some good graphs which show protection from infection after vaccination waning but not from hospitalisation and death and this study https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 8/fulltext backs that up for hospitalisations.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/sep/fir ... d-children

It is good that work is being done for the thankfully small proportion of children who get long covid.

My covid infection has been a week of normal cold with an added fatigue aspect. Feel much better today. probably would have recovered faster if i had stopped working. I had my 2nd AZ jab just over 6 months ago.

[JM2K6]

Up to 14% is not a small proportion.

[petej]

Up to 14% is not a small proportion.

Small proportion. Up to is doing a huge amount of work. Only 13% responded to the survey. When you consider this is an age group where they are much more likely to not have symptoms you are going to miss a lot of cases.

[JM2K6]

Up to 14% is not a small proportion.

Small proportion. Up to is doing a huge amount of work. Only 13% responded to the survey. When you consider this is an age group where they are much more likely to not have symptoms you are going to miss a lot of cases.

And we have a fuck-ton of cases, so that percentage is still a large number of people.

What exactly are you trying to achieve at the moment? You've ignored data that contradicts your "COVID is no threat to the young and the vaccine is neutral at best for them" viewpoint and nit-picked at others.

[dpedin]

Up to 14% is not a small proportion.

Small proportion. Up to is doing a huge amount of work. Only 13% responded to the survey. When you consider this is an age group where they are much more likely to not have symptoms you are going to miss a lot of cases.

And we have a fuck-ton of cases, so that percentage is still a large number of people.

What exactly are you trying to achieve at the moment? You've ignored data that contradicts your "COVID is no threat to the young and the vaccine is neutral at best for them" viewpoint and nit-picked at others.

1 in 8 of kids who have symptoms of long covid seems like a lot to me. Perhaps they all have underlying conditions so according to the Daily Mail don't count?

What was the point of that briefing by the Blonde Bumblecunt today? It seemed to me to be absolutely pointless and looked like an excuse for the BB to try, after the debacle of his COP26 speech in Edinburgh, sorry Glasgow, and to show his 'leadership qualities' in the covid response and to distract from all the other shite going on with his bunch of twats Gov. He was even more useless than usual and yet again demonstrated his excellent Norman Collier impersonation whilst managing to avoid answering any of the questions and looking like a complete and utter twat. Either that or there is something else going on that he needed to distract us all from ... HS2? He really is feckin useless.

[dpedin]

Hearing that major workforce issues coming to a head in NHS up here. They have been struggling to date and some boards called in military support but its getting worse. Nursing and consultants vacancies running at 8-9% and going higher. 1 in 5 nurses are over 55 and with changes in pension schemes happening (again!) in April there is an expected flood of retirals in the system with many retiring and joining nurse bank systems and working part time. Consultant I know is struggling to recruit to consultant posts to one of the top teams in Scotland and is relying on retired guys who have come back to work part time to keep show on the road. Previously he would have had a queue of folk wanting these jobs. Pension issues for higher earners ie consultants, is still a major issue and many are considering early retirement as well. Overall workforce is knackered, dreading winter and many are walking.

[salanya]

They didn't want to focus on Covid in the early autumn, trying to avoid discussions about Plan B, and hoping for a glory moment with COP.

But now they don't want any focus on the failings of COP, or their own sleazy processes and MPs. And as numbers have been going up across Europe, it's the perfect moment to blame that for Covid issues in the UK.
Obviously ignoring that numbers have been consistently above 30k cases a day for 2-3 months now...

[fishfoodie]

They didn't want to focus on Covid in the early autumn, trying to avoid discussions about Plan B, and hoping for a glory moment with COP.

But now they don't want any focus on the failings of COP, or their own sleazy processes and MPs. And as numbers have been going up across Europe, it's the perfect moment to blame that for Covid issues in the UK.
Obviously ignoring that numbers have been consistently above 30k cases a day for 2-3 months now...

He's had the advantage of being able to hide up in Scotland; while his MPs were fuming back in their Constituencies. They've no doubt been getting in the neck for that time; & the corruption headlines show no sign of going away; & now Labour are referring cases in the Standards Czar; & it would be electoral suicide to try messing with them, with so many Tory MPs sitting on the naughty bench.

It may need more than one MPs blood to make this go away.

[Rinkals]

They didn't want to focus on Covid in the early autumn, trying to avoid discussions about Plan B, and hoping for a glory moment with COP.

But now they don't want any focus on the failings of COP, or their own sleazy processes and MPs. And as numbers have been going up across Europe, it's the perfect moment to blame that for Covid issues in the UK.
Obviously ignoring that numbers have been consistently above 30k cases a day for 2-3 months now...

He's had the advantage of being able to hide up in Scotland; while his MPs were fuming back in their Constituencies. They've no doubt been getting in the neck for that time; & the corruption headlines show no sign of going away; & now Labour are referring cases in the Standards Czar; & it would be electoral suicide to try messing with them, with so many Tory MPs sitting on the naughty bench.

It may need more than one MPs blood to make this go away.

I dunno. Does the electorate even notice?

[fishfoodie]

They didn't want to focus on Covid in the early autumn, trying to avoid discussions about Plan B, and hoping for a glory moment with COP.

But now they don't want any focus on the failings of COP, or their own sleazy processes and MPs. And as numbers have been going up across Europe, it's the perfect moment to blame that for Covid issues in the UK.
Obviously ignoring that numbers have been consistently above 30k cases a day for 2-3 months now...

He's had the advantage of being able to hide up in Scotland; while his MPs were fuming back in their Constituencies. They've no doubt been getting in the neck for that time; & the corruption headlines show no sign of going away; & now Labour are referring cases in the Standards Czar; & it would be electoral suicide to try messing with them, with so many Tory MPs sitting on the naughty bench.

It may need more than one MPs blood to make this go away.

I dunno. Does the electorate even notice?

Some of them do; because there were plenty of stories of MPs inboxes full of angry punters mails, & headlines in the Daily Heil, & Express tend to get noticed more than ones in the Guardian; by the typical Tory voter

[petej]

Impact of the not immensa labs south west screw up in the react COVID prevalence study.

[dpedin]

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/20 ... d-disaster