White privilege and other matters

[notfatcat]

Common sense hasn't prevailed. Common sense is not putting yourself in that position. Common sense is not having 17 year olds being able to access assault rifles. Common sense is training your police force properly. Common sense is having proper gun laws.

The jury applied common sense to their deliberations and verdict based on the evidence and the bleedin' obvious.

Also I note that your call for common sense doesn't include the authorities who allowed the riots to happen and the common or garden scum who did the rioting. I guess ultimately the Darwin award nominees were perhaps the ones who showed the least common sense. Rittenhouse's decision to arm himself seems like a very wise one in terms of his personal health.

Are you still pissed????

17 yr old, AR15 semi automatic rifle pre loaded with 30 rounds of FMJ rounds.
WTF does anyone need that level of armament for?
Self fucking defence my arse, let's just take a fucking howitzer to a Greenpeace march next time and claim self defence against vegans..

Been off the beer for a while thanks!

If you don't by now understand what self defence is then it's pointless me saying anything!

[notfatcat]

Common sense hasn't prevailed. Common sense is not putting yourself in that position. Common sense is not having 17 year olds being able to access assault rifles. Common sense is training your police force properly. Common sense is having proper gun laws.

The jury applied common sense to their deliberations and verdict based on the evidence and the bleedin' obvious.

Also I note that your call for common sense doesn't include the authorities who allowed the riots to happen and the common or garden scum who did the rioting. I guess ultimately the Darwin award nominees were perhaps the ones who showed the least common sense. Rittenhouse's decision to arm himself seems like a very wise one in terms of his personal health.

Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there. he lives miles away. He showed zero common sense. i'm going to attend a riot with a large weapon doesn't really scream common sense. Training you police properly and having proper gun laws covers the authorities allowing the riots to happen which wouldn't have happened if american police forces weren't a gun toting shoot first ask questions later shower of shit*. If america had a less fucked up attitude to weapons you might have proper gun laws . Quite a few layers of common sense have been bypassed to even get near this taking place.

*The various bits of american media would do themselves a massive favour by also highlighting cases of people who aren't black who end up on the receiving end of american policing incompetence.

Rittenhouse had every right to be there. It's a free country and where he lived is irrelevant. Especially so when he has worked in Kenosha, his dad lives there, his grandmother, aunts and cousins live there. Who the hell are you to say he has no right to be there?

You can rant about Rittenhouse this... the police that... etc, while absolving the actual thugs and criminals of any blame, but you can't escape the fact that the jury applied common sense to the very extensive amount of evidence.

[Rinkals]

It does send out a message.

If you see Rittenhouse shoot him dead and claim self defence?

I'm fully expecting him to run for office and be elected.

[notfatcat]

Common sense hasn't prevailed. Common sense is not putting yourself in that position. Common sense is not having 17 year olds being able to access assault rifles. Common sense is training your police force properly. Common sense is having proper gun laws.

The jury applied common sense to their deliberations and verdict based on the evidence and the bleedin' obvious.

Also I note that your call for common sense doesn't include the authorities who allowed the riots to happen and the common or garden scum who did the rioting. I guess ultimately the Darwin award nominees were perhaps the ones who showed the least common sense. Rittenhouse's decision to arm himself seems like a very wise one in terms of his personal health.

*The various bits of american media would do themselves a massive favour by also highlighting cases of people who aren't black who end up on the receiving end of american policing incompetence.

I have to agree with you here. This whole situation is media driven and even after the verdict they are still lying through their teeth. These people are so keen to foment more division and outrage that they have been declaring that Jacob Blake was killed by police, eg. ABC News. And they weren't the only ones!

[Rinkals]

Just as a point of order, the crossing of State lines is a bit of a red heron.

Yes, technically, he shouldn't have carried his Automatic Rifle across State lines, but I believe that Rittenhouse didn't live far from the scene of the incident and using that term seeks to colour his motive as somebody actively looking for trouble. Which, to be fair, he probably was.

[Tichtheid]

It does send out a message.

If you see Rittenhouse shoot him dead and claim self defence?

I'm fully expecting him to run for office and be elected.

It's a good thing he's 18 now, he'd have been too young to vote at the time of his shooting these people.


I see the "rights and freedoms" coming out now.

During an online discussion about gun laws I once said to an American that surely my right to not being shot trumps your right to carry what is tantamount to a military grade weapon, and he said I didn't have a right to not being shot.

[petej]

The jury applied common sense to their deliberations and verdict based on the evidence and the bleedin' obvious.

Also I note that your call for common sense doesn't include the authorities who allowed the riots to happen and the common or garden scum who did the rioting. I guess ultimately the Darwin award nominees were perhaps the ones who showed the least common sense. Rittenhouse's decision to arm himself seems like a very wise one in terms of his personal health.

Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there. he lives miles away. He showed zero common sense. i'm going to attend a riot with a large weapon doesn't really scream common sense. Training you police properly and having proper gun laws covers the authorities allowing the riots to happen which wouldn't have happened if american police forces weren't a gun toting shoot first ask questions later shower of shit*. If america had a less fucked up attitude to weapons you might have proper gun laws . Quite a few layers of common sense have been bypassed to even get near this taking place.

*The various bits of american media would do themselves a massive favour by also highlighting cases of people who aren't black who end up on the receiving end of american policing incompetence.

Rittenhouse had every right to be there. It's a free country and where he lived is irrelevant. Especially so when he has worked in Kenosha, his dad lives there, his grandmother, aunts and cousins live there. Who the hell are you to say he has no right to be there?

You can rant about Rittenhouse this... the police that... etc, while absolving the actual thugs and criminals of any blame, but you can't escape the fact that the jury applied common sense to the very extensive amount of evidence.

You are missing my point.
Jury did apply common sense in the application of american law which I didn't dispute.
I didn't say he doesn't have a right to be there I said it was not common sense for him to be there.
Rittenhouse is very much a victim of the ailments in american society which include a lack of gun laws and attitudes to guns, inept policing, rotten media hell bent on escalating everything for $$ etc.....

[Tichtheid]

Just as a point of order, the crossing of State lines is a bit of a red heron.

Yes, technically, he shouldn't have carried his Automatic Rifle across State lines, but I believe that Rittenhouse didn't live far from the scene of the incident and using that term seeks to colour his motive as somebody actively looking for trouble. Which, to be fair, he probably was.

The state lines thing is relevant because it elevates any crime to another level, or so I believe, but as I said earlier he did cross state lines but his rifle was already at a friend's house in Wisconsin.

[notfatcat]

The state lines thing is pretty bizarre. It does sound bad though - "he stole a jar of pickled onions and crossed state lines to sell them". Yet even after the verdict yesterday the corporate media were peppering their outrage with "state lines".

[notfatcat]

Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there. he lives miles away. He showed zero common sense. i'm going to attend a riot with a large weapon doesn't really scream common sense. Training you police properly and having proper gun laws covers the authorities allowing the riots to happen which wouldn't have happened if american police forces weren't a gun toting shoot first ask questions later shower of shit*. If america had a less fucked up attitude to weapons you might have proper gun laws . Quite a few layers of common sense have been bypassed to even get near this taking place.

*The various bits of american media would do themselves a massive favour by also highlighting cases of people who aren't black who end up on the receiving end of american policing incompetence.

Rittenhouse had every right to be there. It's a free country and where he lived is irrelevant. Especially so when he has worked in Kenosha, his dad lives there, his grandmother, aunts and cousins live there. Who the hell are you to say he has no right to be there?

You can rant about Rittenhouse this... the police that... etc, while absolving the actual thugs and criminals of any blame, but you can't escape the fact that the jury applied common sense to the very extensive amount of evidence.

You are missing my point.
Jury did apply common sense in the application of american law which I didn't dispute.
I didn't say he doesn't have a right to be there I said it was not common sense for him to be there.
Rittenhouse is very much a victim of the ailments in american society which include a lack of gun laws and attitudes to guns, inept policing, rotten media hell bent on escalating everything for $$ etc.....

You'd made no previous mention of the verdict, the rioters and the craven authorities, so fair enough.

[Rinkals]

The state lines thing is pretty bizarre. It does sound bad though - "he stole a jar of pickled onions and crossed state lines to sell them". Yet even after the verdict yesterday the corporate media were peppering their outrage with "state lines".

Which is why I brought it up.

When someone says "He came across State Lies", one imagines him on a significant journey to make trouble with an Automatic Rifle.

When in fact he travelled a few hundred metres to make trouble with an Automatic Rifle.

It's a technicality and by using it, the media shows their efforts to make it sound as bad as it actually was.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's a technicality and by using it, the media shows their efforts to make it sound as bad as it actually was.

That he shot 3 people and killed 2 of them, that sort of bad? Damned media

[Hugo]

The state lines thing is pretty bizarre. It does sound bad though - "he stole a jar of pickled onions and crossed state lines to sell them". Yet even after the verdict yesterday the corporate media were peppering their outrage with "state lines".

Good point. Its used as an intensifier - as if the "crossing state lines" bit makes the crime all the more sinister.

Pretty ridiculous angle when people might live really close to bordering states and have good reason to travel between the two frequently.

[Tichtheid]

Crossing state lines to commit a crime elevates it to a Federal crime, which will be tried in Federal a court and will carry longer sentences in Federal prisons as opposed to State prisons, according to Google.

[Rinkals]

The state lines thing is pretty bizarre. It does sound bad though - "he stole a jar of pickled onions and crossed state lines to sell them". Yet even after the verdict yesterday the corporate media were peppering their outrage with "state lines".

Good point. Its used as an intensifier - as if the "crossing state lines" bit makes the crime all the more sinister.

Pretty ridiculous angle when people might live really close to bordering states and have good reason to travel between the two frequently.

Whether he travelled a hundred miles or a hundred yards, he still took an Automatic rifle to a protest. He was looking for trouble.

What was he expecting would happen?

[Hugo]

Crossing state lines to commit a crime elevates it to a Federal crime, which will be tried in Federal a court and will carry longer sentences in Federal prisons as opposed to State prisons, according to Google.

This makes sense in the event of a nationwide criminal conspiracy like say, smuggling drugs to various different states because the crime is federal in nature rather than local.

However in this instance the crime was committed by a local and the fact that he "crossed state lines" to do it seems pretty incidental.

[Random1]

Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there. he lives miles away. He showed zero common sense. i'm going to attend a riot with a large weapon doesn't really scream common sense. Training you police properly and having proper gun laws covers the authorities allowing the riots to happen which wouldn't have happened if american police forces weren't a gun toting shoot first ask questions later shower of shit*. If america had a less fucked up attitude to weapons you might have proper gun laws . Quite a few layers of common sense have been bypassed to even get near this taking place.

*The various bits of american media would do themselves a massive favour by also highlighting cases of people who aren't black who end up on the receiving end of american policing incompetence.

Rittenhouse had every right to be there. It's a free country and where he lived is irrelevant. Especially so when he has worked in Kenosha, his dad lives there, his grandmother, aunts and cousins live there. Who the hell are you to say he has no right to be there?

You can rant about Rittenhouse this... the police that... etc, while absolving the actual thugs and criminals of any blame, but you can't escape the fact that the jury applied common sense to the very extensive amount of evidence.

You are missing my point.
Jury did apply common sense in the application of american law which I didn't dispute.
I didn't say he doesn't have a right to be there I said it was not common sense for him to be there.
Rittenhouse is very much a victim of the ailments in american society which include a lack of gun laws and attitudes to guns, inept policing, rotten media hell bent on escalating everything for $$ etc.....

Funnily enough, we’ve circled back around to why this Fred started for me: the current race focussed narrative is leading to such tribalism that means some people feel justified in ‘defending’ their tribe.

He’s a stupid idiot, and I am utterly confused how a lower charge couldn’t have been brought on this, but hey ho.

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

[Hugo]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

[troglodiet]

....a protest. He was looking for trouble.

This narrative is a big part of the problem.

It wasn't a protest.

It was a riot. Stupid antifa fuckers who looted and burnt down businesses. Some of those businesses being black owned fwiw.

Those same antifa fuckers who can be seen shouting the n-word... to black people who were trying to save their businesses from being destroyed.

Antifa fuckers, one of them who got out of the loony bin that morning. Another being a convicted child rapist.

All, or most of whom were white. BLM even distanced themselves from the rioters and looters.

How many of them had illegal weapons? Carried over state lines. How many of them came from states further away? Who had no business being there. Who only reason for being there was to cause trouble.

If you watched the actions of these "protesters" without any prior knowledge of the political landscape, you'd be forgiven for thinking they were the actual racists.

Guess black Friday is coming to the US a week earlier. With great specials, like 100% discount on all televisions and Nike shoes.

[Sandstorm]

I keep all my assault rifles at a friends’s house two towns over.

[Wyndham Upalot]

A 5,56 round well placed killed these guys. A child with that weaponry is deadly. He is no murderer, but is a killer.

[Rinkals]

....a protest. He was looking for trouble.

This narrative is a big part of the problem.

It wasn't a protest.

It was a riot. Stupid antifa fuckers who looted and burnt down businesses. Some of those businesses being black owned fwiw.

Those same antifa fuckers who can be seen shouting the n-word... to black people who were trying to save their businesses from being destroyed.

Antifa fuckers, one of them who got out of the loony bin that morning. Another being a convicted child rapist.

All, or most of whom were white. BLM even distanced themselves from the rioters and looters.

How many of them had illegal weapons? Carried over state lines. How many of them came from states further away? Who had no business being there. Who only reason for being there was to cause trouble.

If you watched the actions of these "protesters" without any prior knowledge of the political landscape, you'd be forgiven for thinking they were the actual racists.

Guess black Friday is coming to the US a week earlier. With great specials, like 100% discount on all televisions and Nike shoes.

Whether you define it as a riot, a protest, (or an insurrection, for that matter), by taking an automatic rifle there; he wasn't picking daisies. He knew there was a possibility that he might shoot and kill someone, how could he not?

And if the protesters were all child rapists, doesn't mean that he is allowed to kill them. That's what the courts are for.

And speaking of child rapists, I see that Matt Gaetz has offered him an internship, so my suggestion that he will be entering public office is coming to pass.

[Random1]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

Not sure it’s just the media; it’s endemic and Being taught at most levels of education.

Gonna be a rough ride when the next generation get some power.

[petej]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

Not sure it’s just the media; it’s endemic and Being taught at most levels of education.

Gonna be a rough ride when the next generation get some power.

Disagree, the stupidest stuff Ive seen on Twitter and Facebook has come from the older generations. I hear more stupid shit from the old than the young. The young have grown up with this and know how fake a lot of it is. I think the lack of transfer of power is part of the problem. Our media moguls and so many politicians are so old and increasingly senile.

Edit: should add I've ditched Twitter and while still have a Facebook account rarely log in and pretty much never post and hardly anyone I know on fb posts.

[Uncle fester]

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

Not sure it’s just the media; it’s endemic and Being taught at most levels of education.

Gonna be a rough ride when the next generation get some power.

Disagree, the stupidest stuff Ive seen on Twitter and Facebook has come from the older generations. I hear more stupid shit from the old than the young. The young have grown up with this and know how fake a lot of it is. I think the lack of transfer of power is part of the problem. Our media moguls and so many politicians are so old and increasingly senile.

Edit: should add I've ditched Twitter and while still have a Facebook account rarely log in and pretty much never post and hardly anyone I know on fb posts.

Good point. A surprisingly large proportion of qanon types are retired, with nothing better to do with their time.

[Thor Sedan]

Self fucking defence my arse, let's just take a fucking howitzer to a Greenpeace march next time and claim self defence against vegans..

What have us emaciated, iron deficient, snowflake vegans done now??

[NeilOJism]

Just as a point of order, the crossing of State lines is a bit of a red heron.

Fuck the snoresome to and fro over this, this made me

[Rinkals]

Just as a point of order, the crossing of State lines is a bit of a red heron.

Fuck the snoresome to and fro over this, this made me

It's a boredism.

I didn't think it up myself.

[NeilOJism]

Just as a point of order, the crossing of State lines is a bit of a red heron.

Fuck the snoresome to and fro over this, this made me

It's a boredism.

I didn't think it up myself.

Ok, cool; didn’t know that. Sorry, Rinks - it didn’t seem an inconsistent solecism, put it that way.

[Torquemada 1420]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

In favour of what? What the Americans (and now the Han Chinese) have sought i.e. global monoculture? What we need is subtler than that i.e. revelling in the positive differences and dampening down the ability to use differences as a.....errr.... method of division!

[sturginho]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

In favour of what? What the Americans (and now the Han Chinese) have sought i.e. global monoculture? What we need is subtler than that i.e. revelling in the positive differences and dampening down the ability to use differences as a.....errr.... method of division!

I agree, but isnt this what multiculturalism is?

[Torquemada 1420]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

In favour of what? What the Americans (and now the Han Chinese) have sought i.e. global monoculture? What we need is subtler than that i.e. revelling in the positive differences and dampening down the ability to use differences as a.....errr.... method of division!

I agree, but isnt this what multiculturalism is?

Yes. Just that the post implied that was a problem.

[Rinkals]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

If Random is absolutely convinced that racism does not exist in the US, then he might have a point in exhorting people not to use it as a divisive tool.

I think it's quite clear that, if a black teenager had taken an AR15 to the Charlotville "unite the right" march and killed 2 of the protesters and injured another, that the court would not be quite so understanding.

Blaming this on the media is missing the point.

[Tichtheid]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

If Random is absolutely convinced that racism does not exist in the US, then he might have a point in exhorting people not to use it as a divisive tool.

I think it's quite clear that, if a black teenager had taken an AR15 to the Charlotville "unite the right" march and killed 2 of the protesters and injured another, that the court would not be quite so understanding.

Blaming this on the media is missing the point.

There is no way that black teenager would have made it to a court alive.

[Random1]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

In favour of what? What the Americans (and now the Han Chinese) have sought i.e. global monoculture? What we need is subtler than that i.e. revelling in the positive differences and dampening down the ability to use differences as a.....errr.... method of division!

Been toying with this in my head and I don’t think there’s a perfect answer, but I wonder if the answer that makes the most sense in the long term is geography. ie it doesn’t matter what other category you belong to, the region you live in has a shared culture that you at least attempt to subscribe to.

The challenges around nationalism and the exclusion of minorities would need to be grappled with, but at least the location is something everyone genuinely has in common.

As I said; not a perfect answer, and I’m not really finished thinking on it yet. Any views are welcome.

[Random1]

In favour of what? What the Americans (and now the Han Chinese) have sought i.e. global monoculture? What we need is subtler than that i.e. revelling in the positive differences and dampening down the ability to use differences as a.....errr.... method of division!

I agree, but isnt this what multiculturalism is?

Yes. Just that the post implied that was a problem.

I think multiculturalism is possible (preferable actually) within the geographical concept I mentioned in the previous post; where the geographical culture is something that binds people. Maybe wanting my cake and eating it there…

[Random1]

The critical thing is we need a way to stop race, sex, age etc tribalism, as it’s doing no one any good.

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

If Random is absolutely convinced that racism does not exist in the US, then he might have a point in exhorting people not to use it as a divisive tool.

I think it's quite clear that, if a black teenager had taken an AR15 to the Charlotville "unite the right" march and killed 2 of the protesters and injured another, that the court would not be quite so understanding.

Blaming this on the media is missing the point.

Oh, there’s definitely plenty of racism. I agree, if the bloke was black, he’d likely have been treated very differently - potentially shot on the spot.

My point is that the intensity of the racial divide is being exacerbated by focussing on the differences between us rather than what we have in common.

CRT insists that race is the prism through which every interaction with the state (and by extension society) should be viewed.

That leads to division, not unity for me.

[Rinkals]

I agree but Its a media driven phenomenon and hard to stop because of how much influence it has in shaping our sense of reality. The media business model will always value sensationalism over facts because its ultimate goal is to gain our attention and most people are too lazy or busy to invest the time to get to the bottom of issues.

To really stop this you would have to change the way that people consume news and how they access information.

If Random is absolutely convinced that racism does not exist in the US, then he might have a point in exhorting people not to use it as a divisive tool.

I think it's quite clear that, if a black teenager had taken an AR15 to the Charlotville "unite the right" march and killed 2 of the protesters and injured another, that the court would not be quite so understanding.

Blaming this on the media is missing the point.

Oh, there’s definitely plenty of racism. I agree, if the bloke was black, he’d likely have been treated very differently - potentially shot on the spot.

My point is that the intensity of the racial divide is being exacerbated by focussing on the differences between us rather than what we have in common.

CRT insists that race is the prism through which every interaction with the state (and by extension society) should be viewed.

That leads to division, not unity for me.

And my point is that avoiding talking about it does not solve the problem.

[Rinkals]

Just to add that I don't think you understand what CRT is.

[sturginho]

Cathode Ray Tube?