So, coronavirus...

[salanya]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I still wear a mask in shops etc as required in Wales which has been pretty consistent compared to England. The impact of masks is variable depending on the type of mask itself, the ventilation of the area, the vaccination status (vaccinated individuals tend to emit less and for a shorter duration), the wearing of masks might induce behaviour changes like giving people more space, knowledge of the levels of virus in an area also can lead to more cautious behaviour in population. The honest to your question is we don't enough about the omicron variant at this time.

Same as you: in Wales the mask-wearing has continued, and is generally well-observed (in the small and middle-sized towns I frequent anyways).

I'm no expert, but the research examples of the different American towns where mask-wearing was and wasn't encouraged showed great benefits to the masks. Probably paired with the mask-wearers being more mindful of other measures as well, but the results were there.
I don't know how this new variant works, but with the variants so far, if mask-wearing can prevent hundreds if not thousands of infections per week, and in return prevent dozens of deaths alongside a week, then surely wearing a face mask is a very small effort. I fully understand complaints and questions about enforced vaccinations etc., but how anyone can get so worked up about wearing a face mask for 15 minutes in a shop or train is beyond me.

As mentioned: the masks are also a good physical reminder of the pandemic, making you aware that it's not all over yet and to just mind the basic measures.

[Rinkals]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

[Margin__Walker]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ublic-good

Marina in good form

She really is brilliant

+1

[laurent]

Pretty chilling description of how Covid actually kills you.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... dApp_Other

It's fecking horrific watching people die and not responding to treatments you have used inthe past and thought would work.

That was certainly the case in the first few waves but now it's getting much better and statistically you are much more likely to die of pneumonia if ventilated than from Covid pneumonitis if ventilated.

Many more people who get ventilated with Covid are surviving now, I guess the big thing is to not get onto a ventilator in the first place tbh.

This is an interesting article
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lane ... 5/fulltext

Overall ICU mortality was 30·7% (n = 1166), without significant differences between study periods (first wave 31·7% vs second/third waves 28·8%, p = 0·06).

Is that saying that 30% of people going into ICU with Covid didn't come back out?

ICU is a last ditch the procedures are invasive and create (potentially ) further damage. You get there because everything else has failed.
They put you there to try and get your body to recover (pumped full of drugs) in some cases it works.

[I like neeps]

Pretty chilling description of how Covid actually kills you.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... dApp_Other

It's a very sad read. Not really that bothered by anti vaxxers as they aren't bad people, it's social media that has a lot to answer for. Sharing articles and online comment sections do untold damage. Poor guy sounded like he was suffering from mental health issues due to lockdown too.

An awful story of the last 18 months.

[Blackmac]

We were in Lanzarote when the Omicron hysteria started. We had already paid for day 2 LFT tests for our return. On Sunday morning we were informed of the testing changes so did the right thing and immediately booked PCR tests for day 2 of our return using Randox.

We returned yesterday and need to do the PCR tests by Thursday, however I have just received an email from Randox telling me that due to sudden increased demand it is unlikely we will get the tests until Sunday.

We have done our LFT tests anyway and they are negative and the Covid rates in Lanzarote are a tiny fraction, but due to this knee jerk overreaction we will be expected to isolate until next Tuesday or Wednesday.

Absolute shit show of a situation.

[dpedin]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

Looking at each PH mitigation separately is the wrong approach - we need to see them as part of a suite of mitigations which together will make a significant difference - masks, keeping more distance between you and others, hand washing, better ventilation, etc. It is a bit like Brailsford's marginal gains theory, making lots of small but important improvements will collectively make a big difference. The anti-vaxxers and the cry-babies who won't wear a simple mask when in Tescos want the rest of us to get embroiled into detailed pseudo techie type discussions about the differences between an FFP2 v FFP3 mask wearing in Tesco v Waitrose. It is all just bollocks - get your vaccines, wear a mask, ventilate areas you are in, meet outdoors if possible if not choose a place that is ventilated, work from home if possible, have walking meetings, wash hands regularly, take a LFT a couple of times a week, etc. All easy, all free/cheap to do, none will harm you nor the economy unlike like the increasing case, hospitalisation and death numbers and combined these mitigations will make a huge difference!

Off to play golf now and will have a bowl of soup and burger in clubhouse afterwards ... next to open window!

[petej]

Dpedin appears to forget by far and away the major rather than marginal gain is to get vaccinated and to get a booster when you can. Also eat healthy, exercise, be a healthy weight and get plenty of sleep which will lower your risk of a severe outcome if you do get it.

[Blackmac]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

Looking at each PH mitigation separately is the wrong approach - we need to see them as part of a suite of mitigations which together will make a significant difference - masks, keeping more distance between you and others, hand washing, better ventilation, etc. It is a bit like Brailsford's marginal gains theory, making lots of small but important improvements will collectively make a big difference. The anti-vaxxers and the cry-babies who won't wear a simple mask when in Tescos want the rest of us to get embroiled into detailed pseudo techie type discussions about the differences between an FFP2 v FFP3 mask wearing in Tesco v Waitrose. It is all just bollocks - get your vaccines, wear a mask, ventilate areas you are in, meet outdoors if possible if not choose a place that is ventilated, work from home if possible, have walking meetings, wash hands regularly, take a LFT a couple of times a week, etc. All easy, all free/cheap to do, none will harm you nor the economy unlike like the increasing case, hospitalisation and death numbers and combined these mitigations will make a huge difference!

Off to play golf now and will have a bowl of soup and burger in clubhouse afterwards ... next to open window!

Spot on. Was so impressed in Lanzarote. absolutely everyone seemed to be complying with the mask wearing, hand sanitising stations everywhere and obviously the benefit of most of the venues being mainly outdoors.

[JM2K6]

Dpedin appears to forget by far and away the major rather than marginal gain is to get vaccinated and to get a booster when you can. Also eat healthy, exercise, be a healthy weight and get plenty of sleep which will lower your risk of a severe outcome if you do get it.

is that why he said "get your vaccines"

[Chilli]

[dpedin]

Dpedin appears to forget by far and away the major rather than marginal gain is to get vaccinated and to get a booster when you can. Also eat healthy, exercise, be a healthy weight and get plenty of sleep which will lower your risk of a severe outcome if you do get it.

is that why he said "get your vaccines"

Cheers, saves me the need to respond.

Of course keeping healthy is important but unfortunately even young, fit and healthy are dying from covid or are susceptible to long covid.Best to try and avoid getting to rather than having it and taking a chance.

[JM2K6]

Also wearing a mask is significantly fucking easier than losing weight for us fatties

[GogLais]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

My understanding of masks, other than high-grade medical ones, is that they protect other people more than the wearer. So I wear mine as a sort of I’ll look after you if you look after me thing. Fat load of good it does sometimes.

[Line6 HXFX]

I honestly cannot believe people are debating masks, still.
Two years later.
WTF?

Anyway here is something to ponder, virus with mild symptoms, that stick around, are far far more deadly and dangerous and kill far far more people than virus that doesn't, as you spread it and carry it for weeks and weeks litterally without knowing it.
So saying this new variant is only "debilitating and causes fatigue, or doesn't do pneumonia", is misleading, as the people this thing goes after (basically anyone over fifty) it can really seriously fuck up.

We would be better off with Ebola as that hits the host hard, they know they have it and it can be contained.
If you want to kill lots it people, create a mild virus.

[Ymx]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

[Slick]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

[Rinkals]

I should add, I still wear a mask in supermarkets myself, by choice, and perhaps OCD. I don’t demand others do.

But I guess my question is, what’s the point in relation to the new variant which will prevail and has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings?

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

My understanding of masks, other than high-grade medical ones, is that they protect other people more than the wearer. So I wear mine as a sort of I’ll look after you if you look after me thing. Fat load of good it does sometimes.

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

[Ymx]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

[Ymx]

Found a link

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... e-25586505

[fishfoodie]

We would be better off with Ebola as that hits the host hard, they know they have it and it can be contained.
If you want to kill lots it people, create a mild virus.

I think you're alone in thinking that.

[Ymx]

I've heard a lot of metaphors comparing the efficiency of masks with using a diamond mesh fence to keep out mosquitos, but the mask is intended to inhibit aerosols from your breath rather than block individual organisms.

My understanding of masks, other than high-grade medical ones, is that they protect other people more than the wearer. So I wear mine as a sort of I’ll look after you if you look after me thing. Fat load of good it does sometimes.

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

[Uncle fester]

The anti-vaxxers and the cry-babies who won't wear a simple mask when in Tescos want the rest of us to get embroiled into detailed pseudo techie type discussions about the differences between an FFP2 v FFP3 mask wearing in Tesco v Waitrose. It is all just bollocks - !

That is a very very good point.

[Slick]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Ahh, I see

[Dogbert]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tudy-finds

Researchers said results highlight the need to continue with face coverings, social distancing and handwashing alongside vaccine programmes

Public health or non-pharmaceutical interventions are known to be beneficial in fighting respiratory infections like flu, and countries around the world have tried using them to curb the spread of Covid.

However, until now, reviews have not been robust enough to allow experts to make firm conclusions about the effectiveness of such measures in tackling Covid.

Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing and a 25% reduction with physical distancing.

Handwashing also indicated a substantial 53% reduction in Covid incidence, although this was not statistically significant after adjusting for the small number of handwashing studies included.

Jesus Guys , Just wear a fucking mask

[Ymx]

I got pinged today. Lateral flow negative. Did a drive through PCR so I guess tomorrow will find out. Family friends of daughters school we saw in weekend.

Not been asked to isolate as double jabbed. And clearly it’s not Omicron.

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

[Slick]

Why is it clearly not Omicron?

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

[FalseBayFC]

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

NZ have done brilliantly to sustain the containment effort for so long. Our population very quickly got fatigued and lost interest. Very different circumstances though. But the buy in to vaccination and the levels of social and political trust is super impressive.

[Gumboot]

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

NZ have done brilliantly to sustain the containment effort for so long. Our population very quickly got fatigued and lost interest. Very different circumstances though. But the buy in to vaccination and the levels of social and political trust is super impressive.

That, and no land borders.

[petej]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tudy-finds

Researchers said results highlight the need to continue with face coverings, social distancing and handwashing alongside vaccine programmes

Public health or non-pharmaceutical interventions are known to be beneficial in fighting respiratory infections like flu, and countries around the world have tried using them to curb the spread of Covid.

However, until now, reviews have not been robust enough to allow experts to make firm conclusions about the effectiveness of such measures in tackling Covid.

Results from more than 30 studies from around the world were analysed in detail, showing a statistically significant 53% reduction in the incidence of Covid with mask wearing and a 25% reduction with physical distancing.

Handwashing also indicated a substantial 53% reduction in Covid incidence, although this was not statistically significant after adjusting for the small number of handwashing studies included.

Jesus Guys , Just wear a fucking mask

Please read the paper not the guardian article of which the author should be ashamed. 6 studies in the mask wearing section and "Risk of bias across the six studies ranged from moderate to serious or critical". I loath the reporting of the single number 53% as well.

[Ymx]

I think it’s mandatory to isolate if been exposed irrespective of double jab.

Result back and negative. A bit lucky as we were sitting next to them (small round table) having a coffee with them for about half an hour (whilst kids were swimming).

bet that’s a relief

Indeed. My first brush with it. The text you get also gives you a fright and pretty much tells you you have to isolate. It’s only when you click through and enter details it says you don’t.


rain animated gif

It’s utter shite as it actually asks you how many doses you’ve had, and asks you the dates. It doesn’t look up your records.

[JM2K6]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

[Paddington Bear]

Don't know about anyone else but Omnicron has taken an absolute hatchet to Christmas socialising already. Feel really bad for pubs and restaurants who have probably already ordered a lot of their stock.

[dpedin]

Don't know about anyone else but Omnicron has taken an absolute hatchet to Christmas socialising already. Feel really bad for pubs and restaurants who have probably already ordered a lot of their stock.

Gov has really wasted time and resources over the last 18 months and have now got all the messaging completely confused again. For example it might have been useful to have supported/funded bars and restaurants over last 12 months getting some proper HEPA ventilation in place during the summer in preparation for the winter months. If they had a coherent communications strategy, maintained the simple PH mitigations that everyone knows work and got covid rates down lower when they could have then the public perception might have been different and confidence in Gov guidance might be higher. As it is no-one really knows what the Blonde Bumblecunt's strategy is, his Norman Collier style briefings have been disastrous and usually end up with ministers and others scrambling to clarify and correct him in the hours and days afterwards. As a result the public have sussed out that the BB's guidance is just a nonsense and have lost confidence in them. End result is the reaction we are seeing now with public fear over Omicron and folk retreating into their homes. Sad but fully understandable.

[Biffer]

My understanding of masks, other than high-grade medical ones, is that they protect other people more than the wearer. So I wear mine as a sort of I’ll look after you if you look after me thing. Fat load of good it does sometimes.

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

To claim for certain that anything is clear about the new variant is a massive misunderstanding of the science.

[Biffer]

Karma! An other christian conservative vax opponent gooone.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 820884002/

There’s a whole thread of these guys on the Herman Cain Award subreddit.

This guy is particularly prominent though - his broadcasting has probably cost hundreds of lives.

[Ymx]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

[JM2K6]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

Hmm, you're suggesting that masks are pointless. They're a mitigation. They're not pointless.

[dpedin]

petej continuing his crusade I see.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

It's not a binary thing, dude. Omicron is still transmitted the same way and that transmission is still slowed by mask wearing. You don't give up on mitigations just because a more infectious variant has been discovered. You add more.

We didn’t give up on mitigations. We added them.

We use PH mitigations to slow down the community transmission of infectious diseases and ultimately to try and get it down to as low as possible so as to eliminate it or, as you say, to buy time and minimise harm whilst we develop and roll out vaccinations or medications/therapeutic interventions that will minimise harm and death. For example NHS England have a published strategy for the elimination of measles and rubella that was published in 2019. Whilst a different virus and one that has been around a long time it is far more transmissible than covid - it has an r of 16 to 18. For some populations it decimated them when first introduced and there was no immunity ie many of the south sea islands. Problem with covid is it is novel and we need to do the many decades of work we did for measles in a matter of months! Good news is we have the science and technology to have been pretty successful and we need to continue to protect the population ie wearing masks, until we extend roll out of the vaccines - as we do now with the MMR vaccine which has c95% coverage and is sufficient to control community transmission - unless you have some Wakefield anti- vexer twats not immunising their kids!

[Rinkals]

Correct.

What YM is saying is that the organism is so small that it would be impossible for the mask to have any practical effect.

Or, to put it into his own words: "has enough space to “drive a bus” through the holes in our pathetic face coverings".

Tbh it was something I saw a reference to the other day which made I larf.

Looks like it was Dr Hilary on GMB - long time ago by the looks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... s-18086932

And before you lot do one of these pile ons, YM is anti mask. I’m not, I wear one myself for whatever good it might do.

I was merely enquiring why omicron specifically has moved us in to this mask direction again when it’s clearly unstoppable.

The only thing I can think of is that it might buy time to tweak the vaccine and end up waiting for a 4th jab.

I was careful not to say that you were anti-mask, but you have repeated a claim I hear quite often; namely that masks are only useful in that they show that the wearer is an obedient and compliant sheep.