The Official F1 Thread

[JM2K6]

Indeed

I have to admit that I don't take the foruming serious enough to remember all the different posters.
I only noticed yesterday that Torq has the maddest ref-complex of all time, though I probably will forget about that by next week.

But after that last post, I'll try and remember that JM is the nasty bitter one when it comes to sports.
We all have our biases, spite happens from time to time, and I don't blame anyone for fighting the corner of their favourite. But grown adults should be able to garner some form of respect and perspective, especially several hours after the event.

I note you've not spent one second trying to understand or discuss Masi's decision, instead baiting posters and engaging in... whatever the fuck this is, while pretending that you're somehow above it all. Nice effort, but you're utterly transparent.

And if you think I'm being nasty, you've not read a single thing on this forum or PR for years.

You have issues man.

I was actually resigned to Max losing after those first few laps, so just pleasantly surprised for the guy that he's won a first ever World Championship.
I'm not going to debate Masi's decision, cause you don't want a debate; you will only accept people who agree with you in this state.

I'm a bit confused here, salanya. You accused me of being bitter, which is an interesting way to start a conversation. Still, I agreed that I am bitter, and explained the reasons why. I also called you one-eyed, because you're point blank refusing to even acknowledge that Masi's actions are bizarre and contrary to the F1 laws - the best you managed was to claim that Lewis fans would've wanted it to happen if the shoe was on the foot (er, no.). I make no bones about being bitter, and I don't for a second think you're viewing this through anything other than Max Verstappen-branded goggles. Apparently, that makes me nasty, which is quite strange, and you just decided to focus on that rather than, I dunno, talk about the F1? It's difficult to conclude anything other than that you're not actually interested in the rights or wrongs of the matter, you just want to take shots at me (and continue to do so).

And I avoided posting closer to the race, to avoid any emotional posting (as well as having better things to do). Apologies if that makes me 'transparent'.

When did I ever mention about you not posting closer to the race? You're transparent because of what you're posting now, not that you didn't post earlier.

I much prefer people who are honest in their baiting of other posters. Several of whom are here to back you up!

[JM2K6]

I have no doubt there'd be very similar comments/processes if Masi had left the safety car out till the end to give Hamilton the free pass for the championship.

Lewis had a 17 sec lead with 4 laps to go. No-one would think he didn’t deserve to cross the line first today in that situation.

Maybe. Though I imagine Horner may still have complained about it.

Horner and Max complained that the lapped cars were (originally) being told they couldn't overtake the safety car, despite it being the only one of the two options available under the rules that gave Max any chance of catching Hamilton. It certainly seems like the better decision rather than letting the race end under a yellow, and definitely better than just throwing the rulebook out of the window, so it's baffling to me that they complained at the time - perhaps they didn't understand what the alternative was? Or maybe they were complaining early enough when there was a chance the safety car could come in with more than one lap left? I don't know, but it was very odd.

[Ymx]

Don’t worry Sal, JM is definitely over it.

Someone's still salty about the cricket thread I see

yep, it’s been me having a meltdown all weekend.

[salanya]

Fine, last reply:
I was the one who brought up that I didn't post close to the race, as I didn't want to go into one-eyed mode and make sure to have some perspective before posting.

My posts weren't about baiting anyone: I congratulated Max and commisserated with Lewis - how dare I?!
Yes, I'm biased towards Max, but if anything my respect for Lewis as a driver has grown this year: I'm not interested in all the antagonism and the constant judging of characters.

And I'm not taking shots at you, but you reacted very aggressively to my original post, which I found unnecessary and pointed out.

I have no interest in arguing the toss with anyone about the rules of Formula 1; there have been several occassions this year where decisions have been dodgy, from Masi and from the stewards, and the teams contributed to those difficulties.

My feeling at the start of the day for both drivers was that if they lost today, it was because they lost opportunities earlier in the season. That's a huge oversimplification, especially in a sport that relies on mechanics and equipment (and other drivers crashing), but I'm happy that puts things into perspective for me and I can move on.
I enjoy F1, but I'm not that invested that I want to waste hours on arguments, or have it affect my mood. Neither am I interested in using it to bait anyone or win the internet with - life's short enough as it is. If I wanted to bait or shitfight I'd be on PR.

[JM2K6]

Don’t worry Sal, JM is definitely over it.

Someone's still salty about the cricket thread I see

yep, it’s been me having a meltdown all weekend.

?! I had a rant after the game, went and watched the rugby, then made a few posts in the last hour. Interesting definition of "meltdown all weekend".

[Grandpa]

I think the way he lost will motivate Lewis to stay in F1 longer... this will sit like a pea under is mattress for many years to come...

[JM2K6]

Fine, last reply:
I was the one who brought up that I didn't post close to the race, as I didn't want to go into one-eyed mode and make sure to have some perspective before posting.

My posts weren't about baiting anyone: I congratulated Max and commisserated with Lewis - how dare I?!
Yes, I'm biased towards Max, but if anything my respect for Lewis as a driver has grown this year: I'm not interested in all the antagonism and the constant judging of characters.

And I'm not taking shots at you, but you reacted very aggressively to my original post, which I found unnecessary and pointed out.

I have no interest in arguing the toss with anyone about the rules of Formula 1; there have been several occassions this year where decisions have been dodgy, from Masi and from the stewards, and the teams contributed to those difficulties.

My feeling at the start of the day for both drivers was that if they lost today, it was because they lost opportunities earlier in the season. That's a huge oversimplification, especially in a sport that relies on mechanics and equipment (and other drivers crashing), but I'm happy that puts things into perspective for me and I can move on.
I enjoy F1, but I'm not that invested that I want to waste hours on arguments, or have it affect my mood. Neither am I interested in using it to bait anyone or win the internet with - life's short enough as it is. If I wanted to bait or shitfight I'd be on PR.

Thank you for the response. Saying "No, Lewis fans would not have wanted the FIA to break the rules to give Lewis an artificial leg up, because it would have tainted the win entirely, and certainly not for some ridiculous idea of "wanting to see them race in the last lap"." is not, in my opinion, reacting very aggressively; given you then called me bitter, 'the nasty bitter one when it comes to sports', insinuated I was acting like a child, and claimed I had problems - well, I think you can understand why I'm a little baffled why you're making out that you're not taking shots at me. Especially as everyone knows I'm not exactly afraid of shitfighting, and the worst I've done is suggest you're being one-eyed!

I hope you enjoy next season.

[Kiwias]

And I agree that both Toto and Horner have caused a lot of the issues this year, especially the last 2 months or so.
They put the stewards and Masi under mad pressure, in combination with the pressure on safety.

I have no doubt there'd be very similar comments/processes if Masi had left the safety car out till the end to give Hamilton the free pass for the championship.

A healthy lead for almost the entire race and a 17sec lead when the safety car came out hardly suggests he needed a free pass for the win and championship.

EDIT: sorry, the lead when the safety car came out was 11~12 secs, not 17.

[Ymx]

Think Hamilton was clear to win with the status quo. Unless something happened … But it was more like 12 secs (not sure who first misquoted that above), as Verstappen had eaten in to perhaps the max it was which was 17 seconds from some laps back.

[Enzedder]

I'm not sure why - but I am fair feckin raging about this. And I have no real reason as to why.

What a bizarre feeling to be so outraged about something that has exactly 0% meaning in my physical life.

Tomorrow I'll be 'meh'....but right now - I'm in punch Horner in the face mode.

It's up there with 2007 Wayne Barnes for sure.

[JM2K6]

Think Hamilton was clear to win with the status quo. Unless something happened … But it was more like 12 secs (not sure who first misquoted that above), as Verstappen had eaten in to perhaps the max it was which was 17 seconds from some laps back.

17 was quite a few laps previously (37/38). It got to about 13 and largely stayed there, with Max not making up any time. Lewis hit the back markers and lost a little bit of time, with Max 11s behind, then Max had the same issue and it jumped back to 15s just before the crash.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/12/202 ... and-tyres/

[Ymx]

Responses

Defending champion Hamilton had earlier appeared in control with a 12-second lead at a floodlit Yas Marina Circuit, but the high-octane drama took a giant twist as Nicholas Latifi’s crash prompted the safety car to come out with five laps remaining.

Mercedes, this year’s constructors’ championship victors, launched two protests in total – one for overtaking Hamilton during the safety car period prior to the restart and another for officials failing to follow the rules on safety car procedures.

However, both appeals were thrown out during a lengthy protest meeting, with Verstappen, Christian Horner and the rest of the Red Bull team no doubt breathing an enormous sigh of relief.

In response to Mercedes’ first appeal, the FIA statement read: ‘Mercedes claimed that Car 33 overtook Car 44 during the Safety Car period at 1832hrs, in breach of Article 48.8 of the 2021 Formula One Sporting Regulations.

‘Red Bull argued that Car 44 was not “overtaken” by Car 33, that both cars were ‘on and off the throttle’ and that there were ‘a million precedents’ under Safety Car where cars had pulled alongside then moved back behind the car that was in front.

The stewards agreed that while Verstappen had ‘at one stage, for a very short period of time, move slightly in front of Car 44, at a time when both cars where accelerating and braking’, the Dutchman subsequently dropped back behind Hamilton and ‘was not in front when the Safety Car period ended (i.e. at the line).’
The bulletin added: ‘Accordingly, the protest is dismissed and the protest deposit is not refunded.’

A separate statement in response to Mercedes’ second appeal read: ‘Having considered the statements made by both parties, the stewards that article 15.3 allows the race director to control the use of the safety car which in our determination includes deployment and withdrawal.

‘Although article 48.12 may not have been applied fully with regards to the safety car returning to the pits, article 48.13 over-rides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.’

The notice added: ‘That notwithstanding, Mercedes’ request that the stewards remediate the matter by amending the classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.

‘Accordingly, the protest is dismissed.’

[Enzedder]

The hysteria reminds me of the RWC QF performance in 2007 - (cough)Wayne Barnes(cough)

[OomStruisbaai]

The hysteria reminds me of the RWC QF performance in 2007 - (cough)Wayne Barnes(cough)

Called a choke.

[sturginho]

Well I'm glad to see that you lot have taken this in your collective stride

[handyman]

William of Nassau am I, of German descent;
True to the fatherland I remain until death.
Prince of Orange am I, free and fearless.
To the King of Spain I have always given honour.

You, my God and Lord, are my shield, on You I rely.
On You I will build; never leave me,
So that I may remain pious, your servant at all moments,
Dispelling the tyranny that wounds my heart.

[Lemoentjie]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

[handyman]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

[fishfoodie]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

But haven't you seen what an empty shell of a human being, Jensen Button is; because he knows he didn't Deserve to win a World Championship.

[handyman]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

But haven't you seen what an empty shell of a human being, Jensen Button is; because he knows he didn't Deserve to win a World Championship.

Looks in much better shape than Damon Hill tbh.

[Sandstorm]

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

But haven't you seen what an empty shell of a human being, Jensen Button is; because he knows he didn't Deserve to win a World Championship.

Looks in much better shape than Damon Hill tbh.

He's 20 years older than Jenson, you muppet

[Big D]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

I don't agree with the word deserve either. These things play out over a whole season, both took each other out of a race (Silverstone and Monza) with Lewis being lucky he could finish the Silverstone GP as his car was mostly unscathed. The Belgian GP was a farce too.

Over the season RBR had the fastest car (according to Adrian Newey on Sky) but both Verstappen and Hamilton drove the balls off their cars. Will be interesting to see what changes to the order the new regs bring in, would love to see Ferarri and McLaren put a challenge in, and I expect Russell to be livelier than Bottas as a team mate for Hamilton too.

[handyman]

But haven't you seen what an empty shell of a human being, Jensen Button is; because he knows he didn't Deserve to win a World Championship.

Looks in much better shape than Damon Hill tbh.

He's 20 years older than Jenson, you muppet

You've turned into a Pom so much, you're defending them.

[handyman]

Max will go to bed every night knowing he didn't deserve to win that race (although with the cultish victim mentality at Red Bull, it's possible he genuinely thinks that this was finally 'his bit of luck').

It's a shame, because we all like to see someone other than the Krauts or Poms win, but Max is not a fair driver.

Deserve is a strange word. He did not have the fastest car and luck played a massive role, but we've seen over decades of F1 that the fastest combination do not win every time.

Did Max or Lewis extract the most from their car, that is a better question to ask.

I don't agree with the word deserve either. These things play out over a whole season, both took each other out of a race (Silverstone and Monza) with Lewis being lucky he could finish the Silverstone GP as his car was mostly unscathed. The Belgian GP was a farce too.

Over the season RBR had the fastest car (according to Adrian Newey on Sky) but both Verstappen and Hamilton drove the balls off their cars. Will be interesting to see what changes to the order the new regs bring in, would love to see Ferarri and McLaren put a challenge in, and I expect Russell to be livelier than Bottas as a team mate for Hamilton too.

Yeah good post.

After everything, one of the best seasons ever (possible the best) and sets it up well for next year.

[GogLais]

I was surprised to discover that a vee-twin powered car ran in one of the established European GPs post 1945.

[Torquemada 1420]

I was surprised to discover that a vee-twin powered car ran in one of the established European GPs post 1945.

Where? This wouldn't be like the fictitious appearance of the March 2-4-0 at Brazil?!

[GogLais]

I was surprised to discover that a vee-twin powered car ran in one of the established European GPs post 1945.

Where? This wouldn't be like the fictitious appearance of the March 2-4-0 at Brazil?!

1950 or thereabouts Monaco GP. Somebody put a JAP engine in one of the very early Cooper rear engine cars, went out in a pile-up on the first lap. The rules were a bit more relaxed then.
I came across it in something on YouTube where they said that F1 engines had ranged from V2 to H16 and I thought bollox, I’m going to check that.

[Torquemada 1420]

I was surprised to discover that a vee-twin powered car ran in one of the established European GPs post 1945.

Where? This wouldn't be like the fictitious appearance of the March 2-4-0 at Brazil?!

1950 or thereabouts Monaco GP. Somebody put a JAP engine in one of the very early Cooper rear engine cars, went out in a pile-up on the first lap. The rules were a bit more relaxed then.
I came across it in something on YouTube where they said that F1 engines had ranged from V2 to H16 and I thought bollox, I’m going to check that.

Going to have to look now.

[Sandstorm]

Where? This wouldn't be like the fictitious appearance of the March 2-4-0 at Brazil?!

1950 or thereabouts Monaco GP. Somebody put a JAP engine in one of the very early Cooper rear engine cars, went out in a pile-up on the first lap. The rules were a bit more relaxed then.
I came across it in something on YouTube where they said that F1 engines had ranged from V2 to H16 and I thought bollox, I’m going to check that.

Going to have to look now.

If you find anything, please share the link.

[GogLais]

Where? This wouldn't be like the fictitious appearance of the March 2-4-0 at Brazil?!

1950 or thereabouts Monaco GP. Somebody put a JAP engine in one of the very early Cooper rear engine cars, went out in a pile-up on the first lap. The rules were a bit more relaxed then.
I came across it in something on YouTube where they said that F1 engines had ranged from V2 to H16 and I thought bollox, I’m going to check that.

Going to have to look now.

Driven by Harry Schell.

[Torquemada 1420]

1950 or thereabouts Monaco GP. Somebody put a JAP engine in one of the very early Cooper rear engine cars, went out in a pile-up on the first lap. The rules were a bit more relaxed then.
I came across it in something on YouTube where they said that F1 engines had ranged from V2 to H16 and I thought bollox, I’m going to check that.

Going to have to look now.

Driven by Harry Schell.

Can't find any footage but plenty of records to confirm it happened. Apparently was the Monaco GP of 1950. Kudos for unearthing that
https://www.liquisearch.com/harry_schel ... ip_results

[mos_eisely_]

Do you think he'll insist on Max calling him Sir?

[Thor Sedan]

So Mercedes have withdrawn their challenge.

Reporting that LH said he didn't want to win the championship in the courts.

Next season should be interesting - but the reputation of the FIA has been damaged globally (not that they will care). This was easily one of the biggest bits of sanctioned cheating/incompetence/favouritism/manipulation in the history of sports.

For me - I'm kind of over Lewis not winning (it really doesn't damage his legacy)......I'm just annoyed that not one person is going to be punished for the controversary/injustice.

[JM2K6]

IMO they should've demanded Masi's resignation - that should've been the endgame here.

This was instructive:



(note it's slightly wrong - it's at the start of the safety car, not the last lap; he does also say on radio later on that the cars ahead of him should've unlapped)

[Big D]

So Mercedes have withdrawn their challenge.

Reporting that LH said he didn't want to win the championship in the courts.

Next season should be interesting - but the reputation of the FIA has been damaged globally (not that they will care). This was easily one of the biggest bits of sanctioned cheating/incompetence/favouritism/manipulation in the history of sports.

For me - I'm kind of over Lewis not winning (it really doesn't damage his legacy)......I'm just annoyed that not one person is going to be punished for the controversary/injustice.

That is the best move for all parties I think.

One thing that Lewis is pretty good at is the wider picture. He has a moan in the car as all drivers do, but his behaviour afterwards was a lot better than some would have.

[Lobby]

So Mercedes have withdrawn their challenge.

Reporting that LH said he didn't want to win the championship in the courts.

Next season should be interesting - but the reputation of the FIA has been damaged globally (not that they will care). This was easily one of the biggest bits of sanctioned cheating/incompetence/favouritism/manipulation in the history of sports.

For me - I'm kind of over Lewis not winning (it really doesn't damage his legacy)......I'm just annoyed that not one person is going to be punished for the controversary/injustice.

The FIA have admitted that the reputation of F1 has been 'tarnished' by the conclusion of the Abu Dhabi race, and have agreed to conduct a "detailed analysis and clarification exercise" into the running of Sunday's race, with all the teams and drivers, "to draw any lessons from the situation". They are also promising that "clarity [would] be provided to the participants, media, and fans about the current regulations to preserve the competitive nature of our sport while ensuring the safety of the drivers and officials".

Its still possible that Masi will be sacked or demoted following the review.

[Thor Sedan]

Its still possible that Masi will be sacked or demoted following the review.

If that did happen - wouldn't it then bring the final result into question again?

In order for the result to be justified - the FIA would have to confirm that Masi's decision was correct and without fault. Or am I just looking at this too black and white?

[shaggy]

Its still possible that Masi will be sacked or demoted following the review.

If that did happen - wouldn't it then bring the final result into question again?

In order for the result to be justified - the FIA would have to confirm that Masi's decision was correct and without fault. Or am I just looking at this too black and white?

There was a rumour that Toto would use his personal wealth to ensure Masi has no involvement in F1 ever again so the courts might be called upon to intervene further.

[sturginho]

Its still possible that Masi will be sacked or demoted following the review.

If that did happen - wouldn't it then bring the final result into question again?

In order for the result to be justified - the FIA would have to confirm that Masi's decision was correct and without fault. Or am I just looking at this too black and white?

well they don't need to now since Merc have withdrawn their appeal.

One thing which probably didn't help the situation was Masi having all the team bosses in his ear whilst he was trying to decide what to do next

[Lobby]

Its still possible that Masi will be sacked or demoted following the review.

If that did happen - wouldn't it then bring the final result into question again?

In order for the result to be justified - the FIA would have to confirm that Masi's decision was correct and without fault. Or am I just looking at this too black and white?

Merc's withdrawal of their appeal has in part been prompted by the FIA's agreement to hold an investigation and clarify how these issues will be dealt with in the future, and there have been considerable discussions behind the scenes.

In effect, the FIA has already acknowledged that they made mistakes, but as Merc has withdrawn their appeal, there is no longer a risk to the FIA of having to overturn the result of the race.