European Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

Or it was someone providing context around Exeter's current form and why an away loss to Glasgow wouldn't spur rugby writers to expend energy making it out to be anything other than it was - a significant defeat at the hands of a team who outperformed them.

Without taking into context Glasgows average form. If you want context you can’t ignore a bit of it.

I'll not pretend I'm an expert on glasgow's form, but they've been a good team for a number of years now and a win at home against Exeter was not a shock. I don't know why you'd be expecting the media to make excuses. It just reeks of bizarre bitterness - first you spin up a hypothetical thing to get angry about, then you accuse someone listing the ways in which the current Glasgow team is superior to a poor Exeter team of making excuses.

Acknowledging serious weaknesses that got exposed by the opposition is the opposite of making excuses.

[sockwithaticket]

I know Leicester have just scored, but why oh why do coaches tolerate Youngs leaving the ball in a ruck so long that his forwards have had to halt their runs and go from a standing start at an organised, set defensive line?

[fishfoodie]

I know Leicester have just scored, but why oh why do coaches tolerate Youngs leaving the ball in a ruck so long that his forwards have had to halt their runs and go from a standing start at an organised, set defensive line?

He hasn't thrown us one of his trademark intercept passes yet; I feel shortchanged

[Kawazaki]

I know Leicester have just scored, but why oh why do coaches tolerate Youngs leaving the ball in a ruck so long that his forwards have had to halt their runs and go from a standing start at an organised, set defensive line?

Nobody knows.

[Kawazaki]

Interesting that Genge is dropped today as well.

[petej]

I know Leicester have just scored, but why oh why do coaches tolerate Youngs leaving the ball in a ruck so long that his forwards have had to halt their runs and go from a standing start at an organised, set defensive line?

Nobody knows.

They are in for a massive half time bollocking. Missing Ford badly. Ref being kind on blockers in front of runners from Connacht though Tigers defenders should make it more obvious.

[sockwithaticket]

Interesting that Genge is dropped today as well.

Borthwick claimed pre-game that he'd decided and told Genge that he wouldn't be playing 10 days prior to his signing for Bristol.

[petej]

Interesting that Genge is dropped today as well.

Borthwick claimed pre-game that he'd decided and told Genge that he wouldn't be playing 10 days prior to his signing for Bristol.

Borthwick has rotated ruthlessly this season so I can believe it.

[Torquemada 1420]

What could they have achieved if they actually tried?

Hence my comment previously. Castres have always made it clear that they don't have the budget for Europe and T14. That said, I did say in the Quins game that they have a habit of being cussed even when not trying to win.

They have a budget of 22.8M Euros.

That's not too far short of the entire budget for the professional game in Scotland, the international side, two pro teams, their academies, the Super 6 (6 teams on a player salary of about £1500 each per year, that's not a typo), the Sevens teams, the women's teams at these levels, the U20s, and all the staff that go with them.


My heart is breaking for Castres.

I think you are a bit brighter than that. This isn't a sympathy position. It's a matter of fact. A flat in London could buy you an entire estate in Scotland. The point being that it's relative. Castres are competing in T14 and that's where they want and need to stay. They are against sides with much bigger budgets. And unlike Sco, Wal and Ire, there is relegation in theT14. Someone commented that Castres were sh*t: and that's kinda true-ish because in the same way that £1m buys a lot less in Fra than it does in Sco.

[sockwithaticket]

Interesting that Genge is dropped today as well.

Borthwick claimed pre-game that he'd decided and told Genge that he wouldn't be playing 10 days prior to his signing for Bristol.

Borthwick has rotated ruthlessly this season so I can believe it.

True, probably just a coincidence, but it will of course invite questions and speculation.

[fishfoodie]

Youngs very lucky there

[sockwithaticket]

Not the first kick Burns has put straight into touch.

[Torquemada 1420]

Not the first kick Burns has put straight into touch.

How many times has that been said by commentators

[sockwithaticket]

Youngs is getting caught at the base far too much.

[petej]

a lot of red zone pens from connacht. Ref needs to bin one.

[petej]

a lot of red zone pens from connacht. Ref needs to bin one.

Weak reffing. Next one card and penalty try.

[sockwithaticket]

I know refs say they can't award the pen try because the offense is committed before a drive gets going, but that feels like a cop out.

[petej]

Hate playing teams with a ref from their own league.

[fishfoodie]

Hate playing teams with a ref from their own league.

Like every week in the Premiership ?

[petej]

Hate playing teams with a ref from their own league.

Like every week in the Premiership ?

In european games as not a neutral ref.

[Torquemada 1420]

Hate playing teams with a ref from their own league.

Like every week in the Premiership ?

In european games as not a neutral ref.

Seems a tad ridiculous. Is he from Ireland?

[petej]

Like every week in the Premiership ?

In european games as not a neutral ref.

Seems a tad ridiculous. Is he from Ireland?

Scotland. Really should be a top14 ref.

[Torquemada 1420]

How is that a pen to Connacht?

[Torquemada 1420]

In european games as not a neutral ref.

Seems a tad ridiculous. Is he from Ireland?

Scotland. Really should be a top14 ref.

Eh? You realise it was meant to be Raynal but there is no French participation this week!!!

[Torquemada 1420]

Youngs MOTM

[Kawazaki]

Youngs is getting caught at the base far too much.

Man of the Match apparently.

[Uncle fester]

I know Leicester have just scored, but why oh why do coaches tolerate Youngs leaving the ball in a ruck so long that his forwards have had to halt their runs and go from a standing start at an organised, set defensive line?

Why do refs tolerate it?

Use it, 5 seconds, then scrum to defenders.

[petej]

Motm should be a Tigers forward. Poor performance in many ways (not the forwards) but got the result and gave key players like genge and ford a rest.

[Tichtheid]

Hence my comment previously. Castres have always made it clear that they don't have the budget for Europe and T14. That said, I did say in the Quins game that they have a habit of being cussed even when not trying to win.

They have a budget of 22.8M Euros.

That's not too far short of the entire budget for the professional game in Scotland, the international side, two pro teams, their academies, the Super 6 (6 teams on a player salary of about £1500 each per year, that's not a typo), the Sevens teams, the women's teams at these levels, the U20s, and all the staff that go with them.


My heart is breaking for Castres.

I think you are a bit brighter than that.

WTF?

Is it impossible to hold a contrary position without this sort of shite?

This isn't a sympathy position. It's a matter of fact. A flat in London could buy you an entire estate in Scotland. The point being that it's relative. Castres are competing in T14 and that's where they want and need to stay. They are against sides with much bigger budgets. And unlike Sco, Wal and Ire, there is relegation in theT14. Someone commented that Castres were sh*t: and that's kinda true-ish because in the same way that £1m buys a lot less in Fra than it does in Sco.

The Top 14 owners have made themselves a salary arms race, the teams in the URC are supposed to compete in Europe as well as their league too.
There must have been occasions where Scottish teams have signed current or very recent internationals from the Big Three, but I can't think of any right now. Edinburgh signed Robbie Fruen, but I think he played about twenty minutes for us after Bath let him go due to injury.
The fact is that our teams could never sign a Vermeulen or a Skelton or Koch or Carter or whoever, we can't even keep hold of the best Scottish internationals.
The real estate analogy doesn't really work, because French teams, and to be fair English teams too, are buying in parts of Manhattan, Tokyo or Dubai, the most expensive real estate in the world


A French friend of mine advises against watching Castres, ever, because "They will make any game tedious"

[Niegs]

I can't stop watching this celebration from Glasgow!

[Tichtheid]

I can't stop watching this celebration from Glasgow!

When I saw that last night on the Glasgow forum I said "someone should set that to House of Pain's Jump Around.

It seems I wasn 't alone in that thought

[charltom]

I suppose another way of looking at is the 1XV squad of E, I, S and W are broadly competitive.

The 2nd XV’s would be similar with Scotland and Wales maybe struggling a bit

3rd XV and Scotland are ringing round Friday night to see if they can raise a team and Wales also drop off a fair bit

Scotland don’t have a 4th XV, Wales don’t either, England and Ireland probably still fairy level

Eng and Ire are probably above the level of fairies :)

Scotland too. If we're talking 4th XV (as opposed to 4th 23), I'd hazard:

Bhatti
Ashman/Cherry
McCallum
R.Gray
Craig
Thomson
Crosbie
Bradbury
Steele
Weir/vdWalt
Hoyland
Tuipulotou
Hutchinson
McGuigan
Forbes

So not all that shabby... in fact I don't think we'd be too bothered by any of them being needed by the 1st XV (as most have been at some point).

[OomStruisbaai]

They have a budget of 22.8M Euros.

That's not too far short of the entire budget for the professional game in Scotland, the international side, two pro teams, their academies, the Super 6 (6 teams on a player salary of about £1500 each per year, that's not a typo), the Sevens teams, the women's teams at these levels, the U20s, and all the staff that go with them.


My heart is breaking for Castres.

I think you are a bit brighter than that.

WTF?

Is it impossible to hold a contrary position without this sort of shite?

This isn't a sympathy position. It's a matter of fact. A flat in London could buy you an entire estate in Scotland. The point being that it's relative. Castres are competing in T14 and that's where they want and need to stay. They are against sides with much bigger budgets. And unlike Sco, Wal and Ire, there is relegation in theT14. Someone commented that Castres were sh*t: and that's kinda true-ish because in the same way that £1m buys a lot less in Fra than it does in Sco.

The Top 14 owners have made themselves a salary arms race, the teams in the URC are supposed to compete in Europe as well as their league too.
There must have been occasions where Scottish teams have signed current or very recent internationals from the Big Three, but I can't think of any right now. Edinburgh signed Robbie Fruen, but I think he played about twenty minutes for us after Bath let him go due to injury.
The fact is that our teams could never sign a Vermeulen or a Skelton or Koch or Carter or whoever, we can't even keep hold of the best Scottish internationals.
The real estate analogy doesn't really work, because French teams, and to be fair English teams too, are buying in parts of Manhattan, Tokyo or Dubai, the most expensive real estate in the world


A French friend of mine advises against watching Castres, ever, because "They will make any game tedious"

Compare to South Africa

each of South Africa’s Vodacom United Rugby Championship franchises will be allocated a cap of R65.5m on senior players next year, an increase from the R61.9 million each team was allocated in 2021.

The report goes on to say that this will again increase to R67.2m in 2023. On top of this, each of the franchises will be allowed to spend R8m on development players.

Due to the overlap of the URC, the Currie Cup and the SA U20 Provincial Championship, each of the Sharks, Bulls, Stormers and Lions will be allowed to contract 50 players until at least June 2022.

Players contracted to one of the South African URC teams must receive a reported minimum salary of R36 155 per month next year.

The domestic franchises – the Cheetahs, Griquas and Pumas – cannot contract more than 45 players with a R17m cap, an increase of R1 million from this year. This will go up to R18m in 2023

[earl the beaver]

How on earth have Montpellier been given a 28-0 win when Leinster were happy to travel and play the match?

I think there's more than this than meets the eye.

The 23 they've named may not have tested positive but given the absentees a lot of others during the week did, given it can take 7 days to test positive there is a real chance some of the Leinster players named who have tested negative to date could be carrying it.

Ahh, yes I see, thanks.

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

[SaintK]

I think there's more than this than meets the eye.

The 23 they've named may not have tested positive but given the absentees a lot of others during the week did, given it can take 7 days to test positive there is a real chance some of the Leinster players named who have tested negative to date could be carrying it.

Ahh, yes I see, thanks.

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

Oh dear. Won't be the last at a guess
Games in Wales and SCotland playeng with no crowds from Sunday. I reckon the same will happen in England sooner rather than later. 60,000 due at Twickenham for Quins v Saints on day after Boxing Day, perfect super-spreader event!!

[Torquemada 1420]

I think there's more than this than meets the eye.

The 23 they've named may not have tested positive but given the absentees a lot of others during the week did, given it can take 7 days to test positive there is a real chance some of the Leinster players named who have tested negative to date could be carrying it.

Ahh, yes I see, thanks.

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

FWIW, I think ERC could simply have pp'd all these games rather than punishing the likes of Leinster.

[earl the beaver]

Ahh, yes I see, thanks.

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

FWIW, I think ERC could simply have pp'd all these games rather than punishing the likes of Leinster.

And I think that is what Leinster's legal team will be saying, either you allow postponements for everyone or all the French teams who didn't travel (and British sides who couldn't travel to France) take a 28-0 loss.

I do think that EPCR will go with the argument that the tournament rules stated that if matches were stopped due to covid cases in the camp then the riddled team lose the game whereas the other matches were due to a French governmental decision and that wasn't included in the tournament that Leinster signed up to.

[fishfoodie]

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

FWIW, I think ERC could simply have pp'd all these games rather than punishing the likes of Leinster.

And I think that is what Leinster's legal team will be saying, either you allow postponements for everyone or all the French teams who didn't travel (and British sides who couldn't travel to France) take a 28-0 loss.

I do think that EPCR will go with the argument that the tournament rules stated that if matches were stopped due to covid cases in the camp then the riddled team lose the game whereas the other matches were due to a French governmental decision and that wasn't included in the tournament that Leinster signed up to.

The Rules say that Leinster have to field a team; & they were able to; the EPRC then made a wholely subjective judgement, & penalized Leinster.

If they could postpone other games, 24hrs later, why not this one; or just allow the fucking game to take place !

The likes of PSA gloating about the decision makes it look shit.

[earl the beaver]

FWIW, I think ERC could simply have pp'd all these games rather than punishing the likes of Leinster.

And I think that is what Leinster's legal team will be saying, either you allow postponements for everyone or all the French teams who didn't travel (and British sides who couldn't travel to France) take a 28-0 loss.

I do think that EPCR will go with the argument that the tournament rules stated that if matches were stopped due to covid cases in the camp then the riddled team lose the game whereas the other matches were due to a French governmental decision and that wasn't included in the tournament that Leinster signed up to.

The Rules say that Leinster have to field a team; & they were able to; the EPRC then made a wholely subjective judgement, & penalized Leinster.

If they could postpone other games, 24hrs later, why not this one; or just allow the fucking game to take place !

The likes of PSA gloating about the decision makes it look shit.

They can't field a team this week, suggesting that a number of the players selected for the weekend have subsequently tested positive and would have been carrying it in France.

[Uncle fester]

I think there's more than this than meets the eye.

The 23 they've named may not have tested positive but given the absentees a lot of others during the week did, given it can take 7 days to test positive there is a real chance some of the Leinster players named who have tested negative to date could be carrying it.

Ahh, yes I see, thanks.

And so it comes to pass. Leinster's game on Sunday postponed now as more players have tested positive.

Brilliant. 28-0 win for us so?