So, coronavirus...

[Calculon]

Completely crazy, Kiwi journalist and unable to go back home to give birth. She made a fuss and suddenly a MIQ place might now be available

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19- ... BN3F6PJSE/

[Torquemada 1420]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

[CM11]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.

[Margin__Walker]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.

Besides anything else, one look at Spotify's share price over the last week or so shows that the attention has had an impact. Sure, Spotify will ride it out, but it's definitely hit their bottom line.

[Biffer]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.

Besides anything else, one look at Spotify's share price over the last week or so shows that the attention has had an impact. Sure, Spotify will ride it out, but it's definitely hit their bottom line.

There are many, many artists with that many streams / downloads. If others join in, it becomes very serious for Spotify. Most of their paying subscribers are for music.

[Torquemada 1420]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.

Clearly not but this looked as much like virtue signalling as anything ethical. Could have simply had those discussions behind closed doors i.e. wasn't really just personal.
{EDIT} I see Spotify pay this bloke $100m so no way they are canning him!

[JM2K6]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

[Rinkals]

2 things.

1) U-turning morons.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60193410

2) On the Spotify thing, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell get 10m downloads per month. Joe Rogan............. 200m. Good luck with your threats Neil and Joni.

Does an ethical stance have to reap rewards? Just because it won't achieve anything doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing for them personally.

Absolutely.

[Rinkals]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

Also, if they can start a trend going and other artists join them (as seems likely), they may end up not being "insignificant".

[Edit - Sorry, point already made by Biffer above]

[Slick]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

Also, I think Neil Young has a pretty good record in that regard.

[dpedin]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

Also, I think Neil Young has a pretty good record in that regard.

Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation. Perhaps they are just aren't worried about losing 10-20% of their income and regard the health issues as more important? Perhaps they are just good guys?

[Guy Smiley]

Some comedy gold here...

https://theshot.net.au/entertainment/pr ... n-podcast/

Australian pranksters The Chaser have left thousands of Spotify users scratching their heads today, after the comedy group briefly took over the top ranking for ‘Joe Rogan’ on the platform, with a fake podcast promoting vaccines. The move comes in the wake of hundreds of musicians and content creators pulling their content from the streaming service in protest against Rogan’s misinformation around vaccines.

“People like Neil Young have been pulling their music to get back at Spotify, which is very noble but probably isn’t going to convince many people to get jabbed,” explained The Chaser’s Charles Firth today. “We figured most of Rogan’s audience is so gullible it’d be easier if we just pretended to be Joe for a day and declare that vaccines are safe. Knowing how quickly his fans fall for most scams, we expect they’ll all be fully vaccinated within the next six to eight hours.”

The team has also purchased the domain name JoeRogan.com.au, which now redirects users to the federal government’s vaccine booking website.

The comedy group have previously faced a number of bans on social media platforms for impersonating celebrities, including briefly being removed from twitter for election interference in 2020, after the team impersonated Donald Trump and instructed the public not to vote for him.

Clearly not but this looked as much like virtue signalling as anything ethical. Could have simply had those discussions behind closed doors i.e. wasn't really just personal.
{EDIT} I see Spotify pay this bloke $100m so no way they are canning him!

This is a remarkable take on things Torq... remarkable in that you display no awareness of the history both artists have with regard to exactly this type of stance... that of integrity over profit. I gather it's something of a foreign concept for you.

They've spurred some change too.. with Spotify now releasing clear guidelines about content with specific reference to Covid misinformation while taking down thousands of podcasts containing misleading material.

[Torquemada 1420]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

I'm sure that potential loss of income will see then joining the soup kitchen queues in a matter of days.

[Torquemada 1420]

Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation.

No idea about Mitchell but Young definitely had polio and it was before the vaccine existed. However, there really isn't an equivalence here with COVID since polio was a threat to everyone whatever age or health whereas COVID is not. Is this what the heat is all about? I've not bothered looking at the specifics of the beef but your post implies it was in regards young people.

[JM2K6]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

I'm sure that potential loss of income will see then joining the soup kitchen queues in a matter of days.

Yeah, that's right - if there's one thing rich people tend to be fine with, it's losing a big chunk of income.

[Marylandolorian]

Haven’t seen any post from Saint in a long time, he was posting a lot in this thread, did he flounced ?
Same for Sandstorm.

[dpedin]

Didn't both Neil Young and Joni Mitchel have polio in early 1950's before the polio vaccine was invented and suffer from the disease, albeit not as badly as they could have. I suspect their stance on this is driven more by their own painful health experiences and their worry that anti-vaccine messages threaten the life and future of many young people than the money or any 'virtue signalling' motivation.

No idea about Mitchell but Young definitely had polio and it was before the vaccine existed. However, there really isn't an equivalence here with COVID since polio was a threat to everyone whatever age or health whereas COVID is not. Is this what the heat is all about? I've not bothered looking at the specifics of the beef but your post implies it was in regards young people.

Double checked - both Mitchell and Young contracted polio in Canada in early 1950's prior to development and roll out of the vaccine.

Polio is a virulent viral disease and over 96% of cases are mild, many will be unaware they have the disease, less than 1% have serious disease. The likelihood of paralysis, serious side effects and death with polio, like covid, increases with age. There is no cure for polio.

I referred to young people as they tend to be those less likely to take up covid vaccines - my interpretation. However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

[Torquemada 1420]

However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

[Guy Smiley]

However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.

[Torquemada 1420]

However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.

Yup. I definitely reach for the misanthrope lenses whenever I see a privileged person apparently moral crusading.

This is a balanced article
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... nformation

[paddyor]

They're both giving up between 10 and 20% of their revenue by ditching spotify. If that's "virtue signalling" then whatever meaning left in that phrase must be fucking microscopic

It's dead and gone, like mansplaining and gaslighting. Useless now. Though that one was always abused and in reality had been a feature of politics for decades.

[Guy Smiley]

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.

Yup. I definitely reach for the misanthrope lenses whenever I see a privileged person apparently moral crusading.

This is a balanced article
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... nformation

I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

[Tichtheid]

I have a steaming service (Apple), and I've used Tidal and Spotify in the past, but I use it as "try before you buy" service. You used to be able to go into a record shop and ask the guy (it was always a guy) behind the counter to put on an album and you'd listen to several tracks before deciding if you wanted to buy it or not.

As someone said online earlier, it's not sustainable or ethical to have the entire history of recorded music at your disposal for £10 per month.
This is also why live concert tickets are so expensive now, there is practically no living to be made with the months, sometimes years of work that goes into an album.
Would you work for three grand per million uses of your work as per that stupid Guardian article? What if that material represents months, years of work?
I don't actually believe the return is as much as that, btw.

Buy CDs, vinyl, Bandcamp is best.

[Kiwias]

On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.

[Guy Smiley]

On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.

Ah… yes. I got mine last week.

I realise there’s a school of thought that prefers mixing the shots up for a combination of a couple of the complementary vaccines but we’re pretty much limited to Pfizer in NZ (there was the option for AZ but it would involve a consultation) and I’m happy to know I’ve got optimum protection now

[Kiwias]

On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.

Ah… yes. I got mine last week.

I realise there’s a school of thought that prefers mixing the shots up for a combination of a couple of the complementary vaccines but we’re pretty much limited to Pfizer in NZ (there was the option for AZ but it would involve a consultation) and I’m happy to know I’ve got optimum protection now

Pfizer is the most common shot here and my GP uses it exclusively. I look forward to having optimum protection.

[mat the expat]

I had Moderna last month

It done fucked me up good

[Kiwias]

I had Moderna last month

It done fucked me up good

I read your experience and said a little thank you to my GP for choosing Pfizer.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I had Moderna last month

It done fucked me up good

I read your experience and said a little thank you to my GP for choosing Pfizer.

IIRC Moderna is a bigger dose than Pfizer which may be why it kicks some people harder. The mRNA component is identical in both.

I've had 2 AZ and a Pfizer, I vaguely noticed the first one, didn't notice the 2nd and 3rd.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

I have no strong position in regards Spotify. It is what it is, just like Faece-book etc. i.e. massive media companies without ethics....... because that's how they make money. Whilst I dislike/hold contempt for such businesses, I can't affect them and so can't be arsed getting worked up over their existences. Frankly, they only exist because of the co-operation of their users. In the case of Spotify, users also include the very same artists who are making money and then (in some cases) subsequently posturing in regards their own payer's dubious ethics. IIRC, Young removed his works from Spotify and then reinstated them.

Tell me, do you use Spotify?

[Torquemada 1420]

I have a steaming service (Apple), and I've used Tidal and Spotify in the past, but I use it as "try before you buy" service. You used to be able to go into a record shop and ask the guy (it was always a guy) behind the counter to put on an album and you'd listen to several tracks before deciding if you wanted to buy it or not.

As someone said online earlier, it's not sustainable or ethical to have the entire history of recorded music at your disposal for £10 per month.
This is also why live concert tickets are so expensive now, there is practically no living to be made with the months, sometimes years of work that goes into an album.
Would you work for three grand per million uses of your work as per that stupid Guardian article? What if that material represents months, years of work?
I don't actually believe the return is as much as that, btw.

Buy CDs, vinyl, Bandcamp is best.

100% all of this ^^^^^^

[dpedin]

FFS Torq...

both of them belong to that generation of musicians who were known for their social activism. It's been almost a mainstay of theirs.

Your cynicsm is just your default setting.

Yup. I definitely reach for the misanthrope lenses whenever I see a privileged person apparently moral crusading.

This is a balanced article
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... nformation

I'm struggling to understand your position.

On one hand you profess distrust for Young's motivations in giving up (in his own estimation) 60% of his streaming income for a moral stand, the sort of thing he's done all his career.

On the other hand, you seem to have no problem at all with the stance of the company who are prepared to shell out $100 million to host a controversial podcaster whose presented material has been shown to be misleading at best and generally dishonest.

Pardon my cynicsm here but you strike me as just another corporate favouring conservative who hates hippies, as evidenced in your automatic categorising of Young.

Both Young and Mitchell are in their late 70's. I suspect they have enough money to let them live life as they want till they pop off this world. I struggle to see either of them trying to use their Spotify actions as some sort of self serving commercial action or a means to boost their popularity amongst their own audiences, most of whom will probably be older than them and still own the music as LPs! I suspect they are at an age where they don't give a shit about what people think of them, they probably never did, or their own motivations and will do what they think is right and proper based on their moral stances reflecting their own personal life experiences. Good luck to them and I am pleased they took the actions they did, if nothing else it raised the issue and debate to a wider audience.

[dpedin]

On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.

Excellent news! Stay safe in interim.

[Kiwias]

On a personal note, I am booked for my 3rd shot of Pfizer in 10 days.

Excellent news! Stay safe in interim.

Shall do.

[Niegs]

Not directly related, but maybe you've heard of this convoy of 'truckers' (i.e. smaller percentage of truckers, larger percentage of anti-vaxxers/anti-mandates types in their various non-big rig vehicles, a few have displayed swastikas and white supremacist attitudes) in Canada protesting around the country?

They've been camped in Ottawa since Saturday, I think, making a nuisance of themselves. I did enjoy this update:

[troglodiet]

However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

Look a bit deeper into Young's recent actions and another picture is emerging.

He sold most of the rights to his music recently to a company with some very dodgy connections - dodgier than anybody saying they got cured from Covid using medically prescribed Ivermectin.

[Calculon]

However I still suspect that for Mitchell and Young their experiences of contracting polio, a disease now largely disappeared due to vaccination, was a driver for their objections to the anti vaccine messages being on Spotify and as a result they pulled their music. For me it is nothing other than them both doing what they think is right.

You may be right. I'm just deeply cynical about musicians when they start making statements which scream "Look at my virtuosity". Something about them as a group that makes them especially notorious for it.

Look a bit deeper into Young's recent actions and another picture is emerging.

He sold most of the rights to his music recently to a company with some very dodgy connections - dodgier than anybody saying they got cured from Covid using medically prescribed Ivermectin.

Why don't you give us a link then?

[Slick]

He sold 50% of his rights with a specific clause that his songs should never be used in advertisements for fast food or unhealthy fizzy drinks.

Sounds like a monster

[dpedin]

Not directly related, but maybe you've heard of this convoy of 'truckers' (i.e. smaller percentage of truckers, larger percentage of anti-vaxxers/anti-mandates types in their various non-big rig vehicles, a few have displayed swastikas and white supremacist attitudes) in Canada protesting around the country?

They've been camped in Ottawa since Saturday, I think, making a nuisance of themselves. I did enjoy this update:

Brilliant but will fly over the heads of the truckers and their mates!

[mat the expat]

Not directly related, but maybe you've heard of this convoy of 'truckers' (i.e. smaller percentage of truckers, larger percentage of anti-vaxxers/anti-mandates types in their various non-big rig vehicles, a few have displayed swastikas and white supremacist attitudes) in Canada protesting around the country?

They've been camped in Ottawa since Saturday, I think, making a nuisance of themselves. I did enjoy this update:

Brilliant but will fly over the heads of the truckers and their mates!

That's good!

Their nickname is also good:

https://twitter.com/FluTruxKlan