Nuclear Fusion UK

[Kawazaki]

This is from 2014 but it explains everything well. Touches on cold fusion near the end as well.

Melvyn Bragg and his guests discuss nuclear fusion, the process that powers stars. In the 1920s physicists predicted that it might be possible to generate huge amounts of energy by fusing atomic nuclei together, a reaction requiring enormous temperatures and pressures. Today we know that this complex reaction is what keeps the Sun shining. Scientists have achieved fusion in the laboratory and in nuclear weapons; today it is seen as a likely future source of limitless and clean energy.
Guests:
Philippa Browning, Professor of Astrophysics at the University of Manchester
Steve Cowley, Chief Executive of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority
Justin Wark, Professor of Physics and fellow of Trinity College at the University of Oxford

Spotify

[Biffer]

Worth adding that extracting any useable power from fusion is outside the scope of ITER. It's there to demonstrate a sustainable fusion reaction.

Yes, good point. Although the engineering side of that shouldn't be hard - it's the same process as used in current fission reactors.

Yep. I believe there are early plans being drawn up for demonstrator reactors after ITER.

Did a quick check and there's EUDEMO which is proposed to start producing power in 2051, STEP in the UK which is aiming at sometime in the 2040 and a Chinese plant CFETR on a similar timescale.

[Biffer]

As an interesting wee aside, we don't know of anywhere else in the universe where there is fire other than on planet Earth.

[Jim Lahey]

So 28 years after Sim City 2000 was released, we are still nowhere near a Fusion Power Plant?

[Biffer]

So 28 years after Sim City 2000 was released, we are still nowhere near a Fusion Power Plant?

It's been twenty years away for more than fifty years. At least the timescales people are talking about now are realistic.

[Grandpa]

As an interesting wee aside, we don't know of anywhere else in the universe where there is fire other than on planet Earth.

How easy would a fire be to detect on a planet outside our solar system? Have to be pretty big I presume? Would need an atmosphere with Oxygen.

[tc27]

As an interesting wee aside, we don't know of anywhere else in the universe where there is fire other than on planet Earth.

Firstly found your postings on this and the JWT threads very interesting so thanks.

Is it the case that you need a relatively oxygen rich atmosphere and complex plant life that can convert the local stars energy into combustible material? Not sure ho advanced we are at looking at other solar systems - my understanding is that other 'earth like' planets can only be inferred from being in their stars goldilocks zone?

[Biffer]

Yeah, you're both right - it needs a combustible material and oxygen. We don't know of anywhere else that exists. Most people's initial reaction i 'what about the sun', but the sun isn't on fire, it's a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion

[Biffer]

As an interesting wee aside, we don't know of anywhere else in the universe where there is fire other than on planet Earth.

Firstly found your postings on this and the JWT threads very interesting so thanks.

Is it the case that you need a relatively oxygen rich atmosphere and complex plant life that can convert the local stars energy into combustible material? Not sure ho advanced we are at looking at other solar systems - my understanding is that other 'earth like' planets can only be inferred from being in their stars goldilocks zone?

For planets it's a lot of inference, although there are a small number that have been directly imaged (as points of light). There are some good images from the Keck telescope of a multi planet system. JWST should improve the number of direct observations, and once we can do that we can do spectroscopic analysis of the light from these planets to figure out what their atmosphere consists of.

[TB63]

What a lot of people don't realise, is the vast, and I mean vast amount of power needed to sustain the plasma field.
The magnetic containment alone cannot be drawn directly from the grid, even at 475 Kv direct feed in, which they have at Culham.
When they pulse the reactor, there are 2 3,000 tonne horizontal flywheels connected to 2 big generator/motors, these are wound up to 3,000 rpm and the kinetic energy used to fire the pulse, along with drawing power off the network.
In normal usage, these flywheels would take 4 days to come to a stop if they were allowed to freewheel down. They can stop them in 30 seconds with a pulse!...

[tc27]

TBF we can already make fusion reactions we just need to create fission explosion next to a flask of hydrogen

[Dinsdale Piranha]

What a lot of people don't realise, is the vast, and I mean vast amount of power needed to sustain the plasma field.
The magnetic containment alone cannot be drawn directly from the grid, even at 475 Kv direct feed in, which they have at Culham.
When they pulse the reactor, there are 2 3,000 tonne horizontal flywheels connected to 2 big generator/motors, these are wound up to 3,000 rpm and the kinetic energy used to fire the pulse, along with drawing power off the network.
In normal usage, these flywheels would take 4 days to come to a stop if they were allowed to freewheel down. They can stop them in 30 seconds with a pulse!...

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

[Kawazaki]

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

[TB63]

What a lot of people don't realise, is the vast, and I mean vast amount of power needed to sustain the plasma field.
The magnetic containment alone cannot be drawn directly from the grid, even at 475 Kv direct feed in, which they have at Culham.
When they pulse the reactor, there are 2 3,000 tonne horizontal flywheels connected to 2 big generator/motors, these are wound up to 3,000 rpm and the kinetic energy used to fire the pulse, along with drawing power off the network.
In normal usage, these flywheels would take 4 days to come to a stop if they were allowed to freewheel down. They can stop them in 30 seconds with a pulse!...

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

Yup..
The goal is to produce 5% more power out than in. JET has run its course, it's now only a test bed. I was there when they first introduced deuterium into the plasma, just before I was lucky enough to walk inside the reactor, after the first introduction of deuterium, it was off limits.
The building design is mad. They didn't know what they were playing with so there was a mahoosive double containment area, 6 foot thick blast doors etc. But, a really thin roof as they thought if it's going to go pear shaped, aim it up!..

[Biffer]

What a lot of people don't realise, is the vast, and I mean vast amount of power needed to sustain the plasma field.
The magnetic containment alone cannot be drawn directly from the grid, even at 475 Kv direct feed in, which they have at Culham.
When they pulse the reactor, there are 2 3,000 tonne horizontal flywheels connected to 2 big generator/motors, these are wound up to 3,000 rpm and the kinetic energy used to fire the pulse, along with drawing power off the network.
In normal usage, these flywheels would take 4 days to come to a stop if they were allowed to freewheel down. They can stop them in 30 seconds with a pulse!...

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

Yup..
The goal is to produce 5% more power out than in. JET has run its course, it's now only a test bed. I was there when they first introduced deuterium into the plasma, just before I was lucky enough to walk inside the reactor, after the first introduction of deuterium, it was off limits.
The building design is mad. They didn't know what they were playing with so there was a mahoosive double containment area, 6 foot thick blast doors etc. But, a really thin roof as they thought if it's going to go pear shaped, aim it up!..

Yeah, those doors are mental! When I visited a few years back it was off line and there was some sort of servicing going on so the doors were open when we were given the tour.

[TB63]

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

Yup..
The goal is to produce 5% more power out than in. JET has run its course, it's now only a test bed. I was there when they first introduced deuterium into the plasma, just before I was lucky enough to walk inside the reactor, after the first introduction of deuterium, it was off limits.
The building design is mad. They didn't know what they were playing with so there was a mahoosive double containment area, 6 foot thick blast doors etc. But, a really thin roof as they thought if it's going to go pear shaped, aim it up!..

Yeah, those doors are mental! When I visited a few years back it was off line and there was some sort of servicing going on so the doors were open when we were given the tour.

I did a fair bit of work in the basement running cables, every time we passed a bit of SWA through one of the walls, it had to go through a blast prevention plug, ie, shaped hard rubber, 6 ft long which we had to compress to make a seal..
It was fun being in the genset room stood above the flywheel when they pulsed, you get concrete shake with the torsion forces going on..

[Slick]

Yup..
The goal is to produce 5% more power out than in. JET has run its course, it's now only a test bed. I was there when they first introduced deuterium into the plasma, just before I was lucky enough to walk inside the reactor, after the first introduction of deuterium, it was off limits.
The building design is mad. They didn't know what they were playing with so there was a mahoosive double containment area, 6 foot thick blast doors etc. But, a really thin roof as they thought if it's going to go pear shaped, aim it up!..

Yeah, those doors are mental! When I visited a few years back it was off line and there was some sort of servicing going on so the doors were open when we were given the tour.

I did a fair bit of work in the basement running cables, every time we passed a bit of SWA through one of the walls, it had to go through a blast prevention plug, ie, shaped hard rubber, 6 ft long which we had to compress to make a seal..
It was fun being in the genset room stood above the flywheel when they pulsed, you get concrete shake with the torsion forces going on..

Mad thread. I always assumed you were thick as pig shit, but here we are

[fishfoodie]

What a lot of people don't realise, is the vast, and I mean vast amount of power needed to sustain the plasma field.
The magnetic containment alone cannot be drawn directly from the grid, even at 475 Kv direct feed in, which they have at Culham.
When they pulse the reactor, there are 2 3,000 tonne horizontal flywheels connected to 2 big generator/motors, these are wound up to 3,000 rpm and the kinetic energy used to fire the pulse, along with drawing power off the network.
In normal usage, these flywheels would take 4 days to come to a stop if they were allowed to freewheel down. They can stop them in 30 seconds with a pulse!...

I think the recent JET test used around 700MW of power to produce 16MW of fusion power.

Yup..
The goal is to produce 5% more power out than in. JET has run its course, it's now only a test bed. I was there when they first introduced deuterium into the plasma, just before I was lucky enough to walk inside the reactor, after the first introduction of deuterium, it was off limits.
The building design is mad. They didn't know what they were playing with so there was a mahoosive double containment area, 6 foot thick blast doors etc. But, a really thin roof as they thought if it's going to go pear shaped, aim it up!..

That might just be pretty standard engineering design when dealing with uber-explosive/pyrophoric gasses.

The gas pad where I used to work was like this; with very thick, highly reinforced concrete walls, & virtually a tin roof ; because if it went bang; the blast had to go up !

It was also architected, so that there was always a strong breeze thru the block, as the gas techs were way more worried about the gases gathering, rather than igniting immediately, & burning off.

[TB63]

Yeah, those doors are mental! When I visited a few years back it was off line and there was some sort of servicing going on so the doors were open when we were given the tour.

I did a fair bit of work in the basement running cables, every time we passed a bit of SWA through one of the walls, it had to go through a blast prevention plug, ie, shaped hard rubber, 6 ft long which we had to compress to make a seal..
It was fun being in the genset room stood above the flywheel when they pulsed, you get concrete shake with the torsion forces going on..

Mad thread. I always assumed you were thick as pig shit, but here we are

I hide my intelligence well..

[-RB-]

Yeah, you're both right - it needs a combustible material and oxygen. We don't know of anywhere else that exists. Most people's initial reaction i 'what about the sun', but the sun isn't on fire, it's a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion

Lulz, ye olde I'm so smart because I know the sun is a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion as opposed to being on fire gambit.

Do you're friends at the connect four club fall for that one?

[-RB-]

I did a fair bit of work in the basement running cables, every time we passed a bit of SWA through one of the walls, it had to go through a blast prevention plug, ie, shaped hard rubber, 6 ft long which we had to compress to make a seal..
It was fun being in the genset room stood above the flywheel when they pulsed, you get concrete shake with the torsion forces going on..

Mad thread. I always assumed you were thick as pig shit, but here we are

I hide my intelligence well..

Sparky? Plumber or Gasfitter?

[Grandpa]

Mad thread. I always assumed you were thick as pig shit, but here we are

I hide my intelligence well..

Sparky? Plumber or Gasfitter?

Cleaner..

[TB63]

I hide my intelligence well..

Sparky? Plumber or Gasfitter?

Cleaner..

Sparky, was involved in robotics there..

[Biffer]

Yeah, you're both right - it needs a combustible material and oxygen. We don't know of anywhere else that exists. Most people's initial reaction i 'what about the sun', but the sun isn't on fire, it's a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion

Lulz, ye olde I'm so smart because I know the sun is a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion as opposed to being on fire gambit.

Do you're friends at the connect four club fall for that one?

Lulz, ye olde I’m so dumb i hide it through snide humour on an anonymous website gambit.

[TB63]

Yeah, you're both right - it needs a combustible material and oxygen. We don't know of anywhere else that exists. Most people's initial reaction i 'what about the sun', but the sun isn't on fire, it's a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion

Lulz, ye olde I'm so smart because I know the sun is a massive, ongoing, four billion years long, thermonuclear explosion as opposed to being on fire gambit.

Do you're friends at the connect four club fall for that one?

Lulz, ye olde I’m so dumb i hide it through snide humour on an anonymous website gambit.

I'm so thick, but I know the sun is hot..

[Zig]

Does this facility become redundant when ITER comes on line?

[Ymx]

Does this facility become redundant when ITER comes on line?

Is that, like, a new forum ?

[Biffer]

Does this facility become redundant when ITER comes on line?

No, it’ll still contribute towards the body of research, and as per my earlier post plans are afoot to build a demonstrator reactor on the site.

[TB63]

The standing joke on site was it's EU funding. The MD was Italian. Coincidentally, all the heavy kit, including the blast doors were all made in Italy, by firms which were run by his family....

[Biffer]

The standing joke on site was it's EU funding. The MD was Italian. Coincidentally, all the heavy kit, including the blast doors were all made in Italy, by firms which were run by his family....

Yeah, every big science facility pretty much is international. So expensive, so advanced, requirement for all of the big brains on the planet to be involved. Even the ones that the yanks think of as theirs have big international collaborations involved, e.g. LIGO.

I was told a story of Dominic Cummings suggesting we leave the European Space Agency. Whilst the point he made of it being a big support to Ariane, it would have absolutely killed the UKs space sector. He also missed the fact that the French spend nearly €2billion a year on space and the UK spend about €400 million, which is why they get more out of it. Quite how someone can be simultaneously very clever and astonishingly thick amazes me.