The Official English Rugby Thread

[Margin__Walker]

Alex Groves released from Bristol with immediate effect. Thought he was one of the outstanding players in last year's U20 6 Nations comp and would develop nicely

Pat Lam has explained why he has made the slightly surprising decision to release England U20 international Alex Groves.

In a ‘ruthless’ sink or swim environment, the Bears director of rugby explained the towering second row has not made the breakthrough into the Bristol Bears first team he had hoped and so has been immediately released from his contract at the club having signed a two-year academy deal back in 2020.

Lam said: “When we looked at it and weighed up everyone at this stage of the season and he is not what we are looking for.”

Bristol are currently well-stocked at second row, with Samoan international captain Chris Vui, now regular Bears captain Joe Joyce, former England international Dave Attwood, athletic first team regular Ed Holmes and emerging talent John Hawkins as options, while Sam Jeffries can also play in the engine room, however much was hoped of Groves.

There must be some personality issues/clashes there. He was a stand out player in that U20s team and definitely one you'd have picked as a possible future international.

Even if he's not progressed at a rapid pace, he's a player you'd keep on the books if there were no other factors at play

Just joined Sale. Officially anyway, as assume this was lined up, hence the mid season release.

[SaintK]

Alex Groves released from Bristol with immediate effect. Thought he was one of the outstanding players in last year's U20 6 Nations comp and would develop nicely

There must be some personality issues/clashes there. He was a stand out player in that U20s team and definitely one you'd have picked as a possible future international.

Even if he's not progressed at a rapid pace, he's a player you'd keep on the books if there were no other factors at play

Just joined Sale. Officially anyway, as assume this was lined up, hence the mid season release.

Yep, was just about to post

Sale have snapped up Alex Groves, the South African-born ex-England U20s lock who last week left Bristol by mutual consent. Bears boss Pat Lam, who signed the 6ft 8in, 120kg second-rower in January 2020 for his academy, explained: “When we looked at it and weighed up everyone at this stage of the season, he is not what we are looking for.”

The sudden exit of Groves from Bristol opened the door to Sale, who confirmed their signing of the forward on a long-term contract eight days after his exit from Ashton Gate. A Sharks statement read: “Sale are delighted to confirm the signing of promising lock Alex Groves on a long-term contract.

[sockwithaticket]

Manu called up according to Chris Jones.

[Ovals]

Manu called up according to Chris Jones.

No surprise there. If he's match fit he's always going to be selected.

[Ovals]

Manu called up according to Chris Jones.

No surprise there. If he's match fit he's always going to be selected.

England head coach Eddie Jones hopes centre Manu Tuilagi and potential captain Courtney Lawes will return from injury in time for the side's Six Nations game against Wales.

Jones' team renewed their title hopes with a 33-0 win against Italy in round two and face Wales on 26 February.

The head coach hopes flanker Lewis Ludlam and lock Joe Launchbury will be ready for the Twickenham encounter too.

"Potentially we'll have Launchbury, Tuilagi, Lawes and Ludlam," Jones said.

[Hal Jordan]

Manu called up according to Chris Jones.

No surprise there. If he's match fit he's always going to be selected.

So every fifth game, then...

[Ovals]

Manu called up according to Chris Jones.

No surprise there. If he's match fit he's always going to be selected.

So every fifth game, then...

Maybe we could play him from the bench - last 20 mins per match (only when needed) and get several matches out of him.

But, seriously, our team becomes a different proposition with Manu, Lawes and Launchbury in it.

[Margin__Walker]

25 man training squad this week. Confirmation that Manu is back.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... allow-week

After beating Italy 33-0 in Rome last Sunday, the squad has reconvened in Chelsea. They will train at Latymer School as preparations begin for next weekend’s match against Wales at Twickenham Stadium.

Manu Tuilagi returns to the squad after injury. Sam Simmonds will not take part in training this week as part of the management of an ongoing hip issue and will be rehabbing in camp.

Courtney Lawes and Jonny Hill will also join up with the squad. Lawes will continue to work through return to play protocols and Jonny Hill is undergoing rehab on a fibula injury.

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary
Ollie Chessum
Luke Cowan-Dickie
Tom Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Maro Itoje
Joe Launchbury
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart

Backs

Elliot Daly
George Ford
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Jack Nowell
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Ben Youngs

[sockwithaticket]

I'm worried about Lawes, he's taken a lot longer to come through return to play than seems to be the norm which maybe should indicate we just give him the tournament off rather than continually bringing him into camp to monitor progress.

[Ovals]

I'm worried about Lawes, he's taken a lot longer to come through return to play than seems to be the norm which maybe should indicate we just give him the tournament off rather than continually bringing him into camp to monitor progress.

True - he's been out of action for a month now - suggests it was far more than just a little knock on his bonce.

[Happyhooker]

I'm worried about Lawes, he's taken a lot longer to come through return to play than seems to be the norm which maybe should indicate we just give him the tournament off rather than continually bringing him into camp to monitor progress.

True - he's been out of action for a month now - suggests it was far more than just a little knock on his bonce.

I realise it's no laughing matter, but I always remember a friend who coached him in his youth saying "he couldn't empty a shoe of water if you wrote the instructions on the sole of the shoe"

[Ovals]

25 man training squad this week. Confirmation that Manu is back.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... allow-week

After beating Italy 33-0 in Rome last Sunday, the squad has reconvened in Chelsea. They will train at Latymer School as preparations begin for next weekend’s match against Wales at Twickenham Stadium.

Manu Tuilagi returns to the squad after injury. Sam Simmonds will not take part in training this week as part of the management of an ongoing hip issue and will be rehabbing in camp.

Courtney Lawes and Jonny Hill will also join up with the squad. Lawes will continue to work through return to play protocols and Jonny Hill is undergoing rehab on a fibula injury.

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary
Ollie Chessum
Luke Cowan-Dickie
Tom Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Maro Itoje
Joe Launchbury
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart

Backs

Elliot Daly
George Ford
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Jack Nowell
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Ben Youngs

No Joe Marler seems very odd !

[Happyhooker]

Jmk et al will know better than me, but quins have serious front row issues and are facing the mighty .....oh, just us this weekend

[sockwithaticket]

I'm worried about Lawes, he's taken a lot longer to come through return to play than seems to be the norm which maybe should indicate we just give him the tournament off rather than continually bringing him into camp to monitor progress.

True - he's been out of action for a month now - suggests it was far more than just a little knock on his bonce.

I realise it's no laughing matter, but I always remember a friend who coached him in his youth saying "he couldn't empty a shoe of water if you wrote the instructions on the sole of the shoe"

Sounds like he really can't afford to lose many brain cells then!

[JM2K6]

Jmk et al will know better than me, but quins have serious front row issues and are facing the mighty .....oh, just us this weekend

Yup, we have an injury run and he's sorely needed. Not like he needs to be in camp.

[Ovals]

Jmk et al will know better than me, but quins have serious front row issues and are facing the mighty .....oh, just us this weekend

Yup, we have an injury run and he's sorely needed. Not like he needs to be in camp.

I just hope we get Alfie and Launchbury back to make a game of it. Quite a crunch game in term of the top 4 !!

[sockwithaticket]

Jmk et al will know better than me, but quins have serious front row issues and are facing the mighty .....oh, just us this weekend

Yup, we have an injury run and he's sorely needed. Not like he needs to be in camp.

I just hope we get Alfie and Launchbury back to make a game of it. Quite a crunch game in term of the top 4 !!

We need Barbeary, big time.

Blackett said in the latest injury update that Shields is definitely out for a couple of weeks and neither Willis is read yet. Young is still out for a while too, so what the back row will look like if he's not made available I don't know. Gaskell, Fifita, Oghre going on recent emergency selections All good players who can do a job in the back row when required, but usually alongside other recognised back row players.

I know Quins aren't in full health up front themselves.

[JM2K6]

Yup, we have an injury run and he's sorely needed. Not like he needs to be in camp.

I just hope we get Alfie and Launchbury back to make a game of it. Quite a crunch game in term of the top 4 !!

We need Barbeary, big time.

Blackett said in the latest injury update that Shields is definitely out for a couple of weeks and neither Willis is read yet. Young is still out for a while too, so what the back row will look like if he's not made available I don't know. Gaskell, Fifita, Oghre going on recent emergency selections All good players who can do a job in the back row when required, but usually alongside other recognised back row players.

I know Quins aren't in full health up front themselves.

Yeah, having a fit backrow is verboten. At least Louw's got a few minutes under his belt and Lewies is back, that should help a lot. You'll probably have a field day at the breakdown without Dombrandt/Kenningham/Evans/Chisholm/Lawday available; all 3 of our starting options (bar Lewies if we shoehorn him in at 6) are really not up to it.

[Ovals]

I just hope we get Alfie and Launchbury back to make a game of it. Quite a crunch game in term of the top 4 !!

We need Barbeary, big time.

Blackett said in the latest injury update that Shields is definitely out for a couple of weeks and neither Willis is read yet. Young is still out for a while too, so what the back row will look like if he's not made available I don't know. Gaskell, Fifita, Oghre going on recent emergency selections All good players who can do a job in the back row when required, but usually alongside other recognised back row players.

I know Quins aren't in full health up front themselves.

Yeah, having a fit backrow is verboten. At least Louw's got a few minutes under his belt and Lewies is back, that should help a lot. You'll probably have a field day at the breakdown without Dombrandt/Kenningham/Evans/Chisholm/Lawday available; all 3 of our starting options (bar Lewies if we shoehorn him in at 6) are really not up to it.

It's incredibly frustrating - when they are all fit, the two Willis brothers, Barbeary and Shields would give us a backrow that most international side would envy. But, on theother hand, we have benefitted from playing ither sides that have been weakened by 6N call ups.

[JM2K6]

We need Barbeary, big time.

Blackett said in the latest injury update that Shields is definitely out for a couple of weeks and neither Willis is read yet. Young is still out for a while too, so what the back row will look like if he's not made available I don't know. Gaskell, Fifita, Oghre going on recent emergency selections All good players who can do a job in the back row when required, but usually alongside other recognised back row players.

I know Quins aren't in full health up front themselves.

Yeah, having a fit backrow is verboten. At least Louw's got a few minutes under his belt and Lewies is back, that should help a lot. You'll probably have a field day at the breakdown without Dombrandt/Kenningham/Evans/Chisholm/Lawday available; all 3 of our starting options (bar Lewies if we shoehorn him in at 6) are really not up to it.

It's incredibly frustrating - when they are all fit, the two Willis brothers, Barbeary and Shields would give us a backrow that most international side would envy. But, on theother hand, we have benefitted from playing ither sides that have been weakened by 6N call ups.

Yup, it's one of those things that makes our league so bonkers. We've played Sarries twice with weakened teams both times, for example - no chance of seeing two full strength sides go at each other. Can't complain too much as it's a fact of life for basically everybody, but it's still very strange.

Does suggest our luck in having almost everyone fit at the end of last season was less down to the change in training regime and more, well, luck...

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, having a fit backrow is verboten. At least Louw's got a few minutes under his belt and Lewies is back, that should help a lot. You'll probably have a field day at the breakdown without Dombrandt/Kenningham/Evans/Chisholm/Lawday available; all 3 of our starting options (bar Lewies if we shoehorn him in at 6) are really not up to it.

It's incredibly frustrating - when they are all fit, the two Willis brothers, Barbeary and Shields would give us a backrow that most international side would envy. But, on theother hand, we have benefitted from playing ither sides that have been weakened by 6N call ups.

Yup, it's one of those things that makes our league so bonkers. We've played Sarries twice with weakened teams both times, for example - no chance of seeing two full strength sides go at each other. Can't complain too much as it's a fact of life for basically everybody, but it's still very strange.

Does suggest our luck in having almost everyone fit at the end of last season was less down to the change in training regime and more, well, luck...

I feel the same about our run to the final in 19/20. The compressed time frame in which fixtures were played coincided with a period where pretty much all our best players were fit and finished before many of them had a chance to break. It's just fortune.

[SaintK]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

[sockwithaticket]

Jesus christ. How do you get to be his age and that insecure?

There's going to be reams of this shit if the RFU conduct a review after his departure, I'm sure.

[JM2K6]

Will no one rid us of this turbulent gnome?

[Kawazaki]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

I suspect the DoRs detest Jones.

[inactionman]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

You can't win. I'd have thought you'd want players who don't want to be subbed.

[Oxbow]

I doubt Jones wanted to pick Isieweke in the first place but was somewhat backed into a corner with the squad being shorn of so many locks. Now he has, in his mind, the perfect excuse to drop him again. Ridiculously petty little man.

[sockwithaticket]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

How does your mate get to hear something like that? Are the players openly discussing it for anyone to overhear or does he have to ask around for some gossip?

[Uncle fester]

I hear harlequins have handed out some permanent contracts. Had to actually read the article to understand that these are actual permanent contracts with no end dates.
Bit unusual for sport in general, isn't it?

[Kawazaki]

I hear harlequins have handed out some permanent contracts. Had to actually read the article to understand that these are actual permanent contracts with no end dates.
Bit unusual for sport in general, isn't it?

Not really, makes sense really. Give a player a months notice if they're not needed, playing poorly or get broken. I've never really understood why it's not done like the rest of us have to to do it. Especially in football.

[JM2K6]

It IS unusual even if it does make sense. Quins trying to do things differently I guess, and maybe break the cycle mid-level sports teams often get stuck into. Could easily backfire, but good on them for trying at least.

[Hal Jordan]

I would imagine both parties have some sort of break clauses built in. That, or we can just give them notice and put them.on gardening leave.

[Paddington Bear]

A pension thing?

[inactionman]

I would imagine both parties have some sort of break clauses built in. That, or we can just give them notice and put them.on gardening leave.

Would that be an issue from a player retention perspective? They could get an offer from a rival team and hand in notice?

I'd hope the break clauses require conclusion of a season.

[SaintK]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

How does your mate get to hear something like that? Are the players openly discussing it for anyone to overhear or does he have to ask around for some gossip?

To be honest I've never asked, though I'm sure it is based on relationship
He has been around a number of Prem clubs for years and has good relationships with a lot of players across the board. He will also have relationships with players from his work as a past RFU elite coach and will have worked with a number of of the current England squad as they made their way through age group and U20's into the full England squad.

[sockwithaticket]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

How does your mate get to hear something like that? Are the players openly discussing it for anyone to overhear or does he have to ask around for some gossip?

To be honest I've never asked, though I'm sure it is based on relationship
He has been around a number of Prem clubs for years and has good relationships with a lot of players across the board. He will also have relationships with players from his work as a past RFU elite coach and will have worked with a number of of the current England squad as they made their way through age group and U20's into the full England squad.

[Kawazaki]

Another one for the Jones book of man management by the sounds of it.
My mate was in at Saracens today and it appears that Isieweke has been discarded because Jones didn't like his reaction to being replaced on Sunday
Evidently he didn't hear the replacement call on the pitch so pointed at himself asked "me?" Apparently Jones thought he was being disrespectful and didn't like the attitude so has sent him back to Sarries!!!

How does your mate get to hear something like that? Are the players openly discussing it for anyone to overhear or does he have to ask around for some gossip?

To be honest I've never asked, though I'm sure it is based on relationship
He has been around a number of Prem clubs for years and has good relationships with a lot of players across the board. He will also have relationships with players from his work as a past RFU elite coach and will have worked with a number of of the current England squad as they made their way through age group and U20's into the full England squad.

Is it MD that you know?

[SaintK]

How does your mate get to hear something like that? Are the players openly discussing it for anyone to overhear or does he have to ask around for some gossip?

To be honest I've never asked, though I'm sure it is based on relationship
He has been around a number of Prem clubs for years and has good relationships with a lot of players across the board. He will also have relationships with players from his work as a past RFU elite coach and will have worked with a number of of the current England squad as they made their way through age group and U20's into the full England squad.

Is it MD that you know?

Not those initials, no.

[inactionman]

To be honest I've never asked, though I'm sure it is based on relationship
He has been around a number of Prem clubs for years and has good relationships with a lot of players across the board. He will also have relationships with players from his work as a past RFU elite coach and will have worked with a number of of the current England squad as they made their way through age group and U20's into the full England squad.

Is it MD that you know?

Not those initials, no.

We could turn this into a game, almost a Globus-wordle. Is there an M or a D anywhere in their initials?

[SaintK]

Is it MD that you know?

Not those initials, no.

We could turn this into a game, almost a Globus-wordle. Is there an M or a D anywhere in their initials?

we could, but we won't.