English tier 2 club teams could be replaced by reserve sides

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eldanielfire
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The RFU seems to be fixated on top down thinking and obsessively focused on supporting the elite rather than much of the grassroots game. I'd say there is a case for more flexible short loan systems form top clubs. Oh and actually support the Championship. Also if they want fewer stagnating academy players then change the rules for fewer foreign players.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... 1645477296

Exclusive: Premiership reserve teams to play in Championship under radical RFU proposals
Plus, why the plans see the second tier once again being treated with disrespect bordering on disdain

By
Daniel Schofield,
DEPUTY RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT
21 February 2022 • 9:00pm
Exclusive: Premiership reserve teams to play in Championship under radical RFU proposals
Saracens celebrate their Championship title triumph in 2021 CREDIT: RFU COLLECTION/GETTY IMAGES
Premiership reserve teams are set to be parachuted into the Championship under a radical proposal by the Rugby Football Union which would completely reshape English rugby’s second tier.

The RFU Council is meeting this week to consider the future of the Championship while Ealing Trailfinders and Doncaster Knights are set to discover whether they are eligible for promotion to the Premiership this season. They are the only teams to have applied for promotion but their grounds will have to pass the minimum standards criteria.

Under the radical plan put forward by the RFU’s Championship Strategic Review, Telegraph Sport understands Premiership reserve sides would compete in a hybrid league alongside “aspirational” Championship teams who would, in theory, be eligible for promotion to the top flight.

An initial version of the proposal has already been unanimously rejected by Championship clubs but some fear that the RFU will force through the changes at the behest of Premiership Rugby. A formal announcement is expected on Friday on the direction of travel for the Championship.

“The feeling is that it will be presented as a fait accompli,” a leading Championship source said. “We have told the RFU that we hate this idea but it keeps coming back in some form or other. Clearly they want to drive it through regardless of what we want, our players or supporters want. It is going to be ‘this is what is going to happen, are you in or you out?’


Championship clubs have been involved in the consultation process. While some are in favour, many more are alarmed that a competitive league that has helped produce countless England internationals would be reduced to a glorified reserve competition.

Those driving the process within the RFU believe a revamped league will help release the bottleneck of young talent that is stagnating in Premiership academies. Particularly since the Covid-19 pandemic, many young players are going weeks without games. They also believe a league based on the best young English talent will be more attractive to sponsors and broadcasters.

It has been a long-term aim of several Premiership clubs to turn the A League into the second tier of English rugby at the expense of the Championship. In 2016, Nigel Melville, the RFU’s then professional rugby director, proposed formalising loan partnership arrangements between Premiership and Championship clubs, but this was sunk by top-flight opposition who wanted to prioritise the A League.

However, there is a split within the Premiership about the merits of the plan. With squad sizes reducing because of the reduction in the salary cap to £5million this season, many clubs struggle to consistently field an A League side without resorting to ‘guest’ players. One proposed split would be seven Premiership reserves sides with five “aspirational” Championship teams.

The changes would come into effect for the 2023/24 season to coincide with the renewal of the heads of agreement between Premiership Rugby and the RFU which determines England player release.

Meanwhile Ealing and Doncaster Knights, who meet this Saturday in a top of the table clash, are anxiously awaiting the RFU Board’s approval for promotion to the Premiership. Both have proposed installing temporary seating to meet the 10,000-capacity minimum threshold but Ealing have some concerns over planning permission. With no relegation from the Premiership on hold, either Doncaster or Ealing would become the top flight’s 14th team.

Second tier is breeding ground for talent - not some plaything for RFU
Analysis by Daniel Schofield

Has a league ever been so devalued yet proved so valuable as the Championship?

According to research by Bedford Blues last month, 49 per cent of players who featured in the 13th round of Premiership matches had Championship experience. From Eddie Jones’ matchday squad for England’s opening Six Nations match against Scotland, 15 players had cut their teeth in the Championship. As a breeding ground for young and even slighter older talent it is second to none.

To pick one of several dozen examples let’s take Ollie Chessum, England’s most recently capped player. Around 16, he did not make the grade at Leicester’s academy. As my colleague Charlie Morgan recently detailed, Chessum was picked up by Nottingham and developed the fundamentals of his game in the dog-eat-dog world of men’s rugby until he was ready to be re-signed by Leicester. Mark Atkinson and Nic Dolly, freshly capped by England, also owe their careers to their spells in the Championship. Indeed, Eddie Jones is known to value those players who have done the hard yards in the second tier.

Putting aside the red-rose tinted spectacles for a moment, the Championship is also just a great place to watch a decent standard of rugby at affordable prices. Bedford and Coventry, two clubs with no immediate aspirations of promotion and who have far bigger neighbours on their doorstep, regularly draw crowds of 2,500. Jersey Reds, Doncaster and Cornish Pirates provide an excellent geographical spread of the country and this season’s title race has been wonderfully competitive.

And yet the Championship seems to be treated with a disrespect bordering on disdain by Premiership Rugby and the Rugby Football Union. In 2020, the RFU central funding was slashed by almost half to £288,000 per year, forcing many clubs to abandon full-time models. To propose a hybrid league featuring Premiership reserve teams will seem an insult too far for many fans.

Perhaps the RFU missed the widespread opprobrium that Pep Guardiola’s proposal to parachute Premier League B teams into the Football League received. The very notion of replacing established, historic clubs with, say, Worcester’s stiffs will be highly unpopular with traditional supporters. It is going to take the Don Draper of marketing geniuses to make it appear anything other than the A League in disguise.

The RFU will counter that leaving the Championship in its present rundown state was not an option (probably true), that Championship clubs are not financially sustainable (broadly true but conveniently ignoring the amount of money Premiership clubs haemorrhage) and that the league struggles to attract broadcast and sponsorship interest (true, but the RFU is responsible for this).

Their strongest argument is that there is a bottleneck of talent that is not receiving sufficient gametime in Premiership academies. Back in 2016, Nigel Melville, then the RFU’s professional rugby director and now chairman of Premiership Rugby, stated that players in the England Under-20 side can expect to play only 880 minutes a season, the equivalent of 11 full games. This amount of playing time will have significantly decreased in the past two years because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Giving these young players a more structured schedule featuring Championship teams looks like a solution.

But it misses a fundamental point. Yes, game time is important but so is the experience of playing for a Championship club. Scores of England players have spoken about how crucial going on loan has been for the development in going to an alien environment called the “real world”. Suddenly, they do not have an academy coach micromanaging every minute of their day and they are playing alongside older players whose livelihoods depend on the result at the weekend.

This was England prop Will Stuart’s reaction to 2020 budget cuts. “The Wild West is getting even wilder. I can’t stress how important my time at @NottinghamRugby was for me. This is pure garbage for lads who put their bodies on the line for already laughable levels of player welfare.”

It is clear that the A League proposal is being pushed upon the RFU by certain Premiership owners who dream of monetising a second league so they would have a home game every week. Great, in theory, but let’s just see how the practice pans out.

Indeed, a lot of the details and principles deserve to be heard. However, it does feel like the Championship is a character-filled, listed building that has been left derelict by its owners so they can knock it down and build some garish modern flats in its place. Only future generations will be able to judge the wisdom of that decision.
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SaintK
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Just bring back the Prem A league and make it a proper competion.
The Championship should be treated with far more respect and be funded properly and replicate the French Pro D2 and be taken seriously
Unfortunately PRL has far too much power and say in things and with a bunch of muppets running the RFU it's likely to remain that way!!
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Margin__Walker
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This is filed firmly in the believe it when I see it pile.

This story (or one very similar) seems to do the rounds every year.

There is absolutely a problem with the amount of gametime prem academy and young fringe squad players get at the moment though. I don't know why they don't just have a Cup comp with the Championship sides, complete with pool stages.
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laurent
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SaintK wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:26 pm Just bring back the Prem A league and make it a proper competion.
The Championship should be treated with far more respect and be funded properly and replicate the French Pro D2 and be taken seriously
Unfortunately PRL has far too much power and say in things and with a bunch of muppets running the RFU it's likely to remain that way!!
Not sure these guys would stack up against the French Nationale league (effectively 3rd division) that's been created because they needed to stop the mess Fédérale1 was becoming with clubs having ProD2 budgets and old shamateurs type clubs.
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Paddington Bear
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laurent wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:49 pm
SaintK wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:26 pm Just bring back the Prem A league and make it a proper competion.
The Championship should be treated with far more respect and be funded properly and replicate the French Pro D2 and be taken seriously
Unfortunately PRL has far too much power and say in things and with a bunch of muppets running the RFU it's likely to remain that way!!
Not sure these guys would stack up against the French Nationale league (effectively 3rd division) that's been created because they needed to stop the mess Fédérale1 was becoming with clubs having ProD2 budgets and old shamateurs type clubs.
Pro D2 has a fanbase that the Championship cannot compete with and from my limited experience Champ clubs do seem to be more reminiscent off the pitch of clubs further down the French set up. Is there any Championship club where you can't walk up and down the touchline with the game? I've done it at Jersey, Ealing and London Scottish so lean towards no.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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laurent
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Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:26 pm
laurent wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:49 pm
SaintK wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:26 pm Just bring back the Prem A league and make it a proper competion.
The Championship should be treated with far more respect and be funded properly and replicate the French Pro D2 and be taken seriously
Unfortunately PRL has far too much power and say in things and with a bunch of muppets running the RFU it's likely to remain that way!!
Not sure these guys would stack up against the French Nationale league (effectively 3rd division) that's been created because they needed to stop the mess Fédérale1 was becoming with clubs having ProD2 budgets and old shamateurs type clubs.
Pro D2 has a fanbase that the Championship cannot compete with and from my limited experience Champ clubs do seem to be more reminiscent off the pitch of clubs further down the French set up. Is there any Championship club where you can't walk up and down the touchline with the game? I've done it at Jersey, Ealing and London Scottish so lean towards no.
Nationale is pretty big too (with a number of old time clubs) but some of these clubs would compare to championship with tiny stadiums.

1 Massy (most suburbs players come from here Bastareau is best known)
2 Soyaux-Angouleme upcoming with big sponsor
3 Valence-Romans merger of old time club
4 Albi old club a top one
5 Chambéry
6 Nice Old club won the Brennus
7 Dax Old Club never won the Brennus (most final lost without a win now that Clermont have won it )
8 Blagnac Old club overshadowed by bigger neighbours (Toulouse Colomiers)
9 Suresnes Bunch of cunts with money
10 Aubenas old club small town
11 Tarbes Old club won the Brennus
12 Dijon small town club
13 Bourgoin old club you know
14 Cognac/Saint-Jean-d'Angély Merger of historical clubs
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Torquemada 1420
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laurent wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:02 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:26 pm
laurent wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:49 pm

Not sure these guys would stack up against the French Nationale league (effectively 3rd division) that's been created because they needed to stop the mess Fédérale1 was becoming with clubs having ProD2 budgets and old shamateurs type clubs.
Pro D2 has a fanbase that the Championship cannot compete with and from my limited experience Champ clubs do seem to be more reminiscent off the pitch of clubs further down the French set up. Is there any Championship club where you can't walk up and down the touchline with the game? I've done it at Jersey, Ealing and London Scottish so lean towards no.
Nationale is pretty big too (with a number of old time clubs) but some of these clubs would compare to championship with tiny stadiums.

1 Massy (most suburbs players come from here Bastareau is best known)
2 Soyaux-Angouleme upcoming with big sponsor
3 Valence-Romans merger of old time club
4 Albi old club a top one
5 Chambéry
6 Nice Old club won the Brennus
7 Dax Old Club never won the Brennus (most final lost without a win now that Clermont have won it )
8 Blagnac Old club overshadowed by bigger neighbours (Toulouse Colomiers)
9 Suresnes Bunch of cunts with money
10 Aubenas old club small town
11 Tarbes Old club won the Brennus
12 Dijon small town club
13 Bourgoin old club you know
14 Cognac/Saint-Jean-d'Angély Merger of historical clubs
Nimes is in Federales! As are PUC who were semi-finalists in the 50s.
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ASMO
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Dax has a helluva alumni list.
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laurent
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ASMO wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:05 pm Dax has a helluva alumni list.
Heartland type club

Look up Massy it's quite special for what is a suburban club.
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Niegs
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I just did a report on the futility of 'academies' for young players or, at best, the risks of putting all of one's eggs into that basket. I wish I'd had this to go along with it ...
According to research by Bedford Blues last month, 49 per cent of players who featured in the 13th round of Premiership matches had Championship experience. From Eddie Jones’ matchday squad for England’s opening Six Nations match against Scotland, 15 players had cut their teeth in the Championship. As a breeding ground for young and even slighter older talent it is second to none.

To pick one of several dozen examples let’s take Ollie Chessum, England’s most recently capped player. Around 16, he did not make the grade at Leicester’s academy. As my colleague Charlie Morgan recently detailed, Chessum was picked up by Nottingham and developed the fundamentals of his game in the dog-eat-dog world of men’s rugby until he was ready to be re-signed by Leicester.
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Margin__Walker
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Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:20 pm I just did a report on the futility of 'academies' for young players or, at best, the risks of putting all of one's eggs into that basket. I wish I'd had this to go along with it ...
According to research by Bedford Blues last month, 49 per cent of players who featured in the 13th round of Premiership matches had Championship experience. From Eddie Jones’ matchday squad for England’s opening Six Nations match against Scotland, 15 players had cut their teeth in the Championship. As a breeding ground for young and even slighter older talent it is second to none.

To pick one of several dozen examples let’s take Ollie Chessum, England’s most recently capped player. Around 16, he did not make the grade at Leicester’s academy. As my colleague Charlie Morgan recently detailed, Chessum was picked up by Nottingham and developed the fundamentals of his game in the dog-eat-dog world of men’s rugby until he was ready to be re-signed by Leicester.
Championship does to a great job, but Chessum is a cherry picked example. The vast majority of those players will have played games on loan from prem academies, just a handful of games in some cases. The sort of experience that could have been gained in other second tier comps.
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Torquemada 1420
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laurent wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:11 pm
ASMO wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:05 pm Dax has a helluva alumni list.
Heartland type club

Look up Massy it's quite special for what is a suburban club.
Dax more of a headline club. I'd bet Massy has produced more top players in the modern era than any other club including the academies of T14 sides.
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Niegs
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Margin__Walker wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:20 pm I just did a report on the futility of 'academies' for young players or, at best, the risks of putting all of one's eggs into that basket. I wish I'd had this to go along with it ...
According to research by Bedford Blues last month, 49 per cent of players who featured in the 13th round of Premiership matches had Championship experience. From Eddie Jones’ matchday squad for England’s opening Six Nations match against Scotland, 15 players had cut their teeth in the Championship. As a breeding ground for young and even slighter older talent it is second to none.

To pick one of several dozen examples let’s take Ollie Chessum, England’s most recently capped player. Around 16, he did not make the grade at Leicester’s academy. As my colleague Charlie Morgan recently detailed, Chessum was picked up by Nottingham and developed the fundamentals of his game in the dog-eat-dog world of men’s rugby until he was ready to be re-signed by Leicester.
Championship does to a great job, but Chessum is a cherry picked example. The vast majority of those players will have played games on loan from prem academies, just a handful of games in some cases. The sort of experience that could have been gained in other second tier comps.

On the flip side, I'm not convinced that Jacob Umaga is better than all fly halves and full backs in the Championship.
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Margin__Walker
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Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:59 pm
Margin__Walker wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Niegs wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:20 pm I just did a report on the futility of 'academies' for young players or, at best, the risks of putting all of one's eggs into that basket. I wish I'd had this to go along with it ...

Championship does to a great job, but Chessum is a cherry picked example. The vast majority of those players will have played games on loan from prem academies, just a handful of games in some cases. The sort of experience that could have been gained in other second tier comps.

On the flip side, I'm not convinced that Jacob Umaga is better than all fly halves and full backs in the Championship.
Oh Sure. Championship is a decent standard. So many players have used it as a route into the Prem. Either after being let go by prem academies earlier or being late developers. Props especially tend to make the step up. Just looking at the current LI squad alone there are a fair few players with that as a route in:

Rogerson (club captain)
Chawatama
Stokes
Goodrick-Clark
Cornish
Parker (sort of - signed from Jersey anyway)
Jennings (again, sort of. Hard a good stint at Coventry after being let go by Bath)
Pearson (BUCS)
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SaintK
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So neither Ealing or Doncaster currently meet the ground capacity for promotion!!!
So what happens now?
Doncaster Knights and Ealing Trailfinders have been denied a potential promotion to the Premiership after failing to meet minimum standards criteria. The Championship clubs have fallen short as their respective home grounds are unable to hold at least 10,001 supporters.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... by-union
Happyhooker
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SaintK wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:42 pm So neither Ealing or Doncaster currently meet the ground capacity for promotion!!!
So what happens now?
Doncaster Knights and Ealing Trailfinders have been denied a potential promotion to the Premiership after failing to meet minimum standards criteria. The Championship clubs have fallen short as their respective home grounds are unable to hold at least 10,001 supporters.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... by-union
No surprise there
How many of the premiership clubs are meeting the 'bums on seats' criteria
duke
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Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:48 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:42 pm So neither Ealing or Doncaster currently meet the ground capacity for promotion!!!
So what happens now?
Doncaster Knights and Ealing Trailfinders have been denied a potential promotion to the Premiership after failing to meet minimum standards criteria. The Championship clubs have fallen short as their respective home grounds are unable to hold at least 10,001 supporters.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... by-union
No surprise there
How many of the premiership clubs are meeting the 'bums on seats' criteria
Per Wikipedia. Kingston Park has a capacity of 10,200 and I think that’s the smallest ground
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JM2K6
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Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:48 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:42 pm So neither Ealing or Doncaster currently meet the ground capacity for promotion!!!
So what happens now?
Doncaster Knights and Ealing Trailfinders have been denied a potential promotion to the Premiership after failing to meet minimum standards criteria. The Championship clubs have fallen short as their respective home grounds are unable to hold at least 10,001 supporters.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... by-union
No surprise there
How many of the premiership clubs are meeting the 'bums on seats' criteria
It's how many seats, not how many fans. Although Ealing and Doncaster would be the worst in the Premiership anyway by that metric too
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Kawazaki
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Any news on the Truro stadium?
Happyhooker
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JM2K6 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:55 pm
Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:48 pm
SaintK wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:42 pm So neither Ealing or Doncaster currently meet the ground capacity for promotion!!!
So what happens now?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... by-union
No surprise there
How many of the premiership clubs are meeting the 'bums on seats' criteria
It's how many seats, not how many fans. Although Ealing and Doncaster would be the worst in the Premiership anyway by that metric too
No, separate points. There's also a stipulation somewhere in there re minimum average attendances. There's quite a few clubs failing to achieve the no (about 10k I believe)

As in "bums on seats", like what I said
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JM2K6
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Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:01 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:55 pm
Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:48 pm
No surprise there
How many of the premiership clubs are meeting the 'bums on seats' criteria
It's how many seats, not how many fans. Although Ealing and Doncaster would be the worst in the Premiership anyway by that metric too
No, separate points. There's also a stipulation somewhere in there re minimum average attendances. There's quite a few clubs failing to achieve the no (about 10k I believe)

As in "bums on seats", like what I said
OK, I've never heard of that and can't find anything about it. Got a link? 10k would be a huge figure for a minimum, wildly unrealistic.
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SaintK
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JM2K6 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:09 am
Happyhooker wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:01 pm
JM2K6 wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:55 pm

It's how many seats, not how many fans. Although Ealing and Doncaster would be the worst in the Premiership anyway by that metric too
No, separate points. There's also a stipulation somewhere in there re minimum average attendances. There's quite a few clubs failing to achieve the no (about 10k I believe)

As in "bums on seats", like what I said
OK, I've never heard of that and can't find anything about it. Got a link? 10k would be a huge figure for a minimum, wildly unrealistic.
Certainly Warriors and Falcons don't get anywhere near that number for a home match
Happyhooker
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I came across it in an article yesterday. I'll see if I can dig it out
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