Serious question for Kiwis - do you want ABs withdrawn from current international calendar agreements?

[Ellafan]

In case you haven't seen it, pasted below is Hansen's interview on Stuff - where he says NZR should withdraw from current international tour/game arrangements and take control of who the AB's play, and who gets the money. This was put out a month ago, but no-one seems to be discussing it.

Interested to know if you agree with him, and think that 100+ years of rugby co-operation should give way to mammon, or you think that traditions and affiliations are worth something and should be kept?

Because multiple requests to introduce a global calendar, and a revenue-sharing model that would allow NZ Rugby to earn money from All Blacks’ games in the northern hemisphere, continue to be overlooked a frustrated Hansen suggested NZ Rugby could go it alone and send out its own invites to teams to play the All Blacks.

“You (NZ Rugby) turn around and say ‘World Rugby won’t dictate who we have to play, other than maybe a tier-two nation’,’’ Hansen told Stuff.

“You arrange your own test matches. It would sort out who is doing what - because if England wanted to play us, they would play. They do that now, when it is outside World Rugby-appointed test matches.

“They pay now - so they revenue-share now. So for people to say it will never happen … it will never happen if World Rugby keep organising the games.’’...

...

When it was put to Hansen that an angry World Rugby could try to seek retribution by booting the All Blacks out of the global tournaments he didn’t believe it would have the fortitude to derail its own tournament.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... orld-rugby

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Ignoring this sidebar, I know Hansen supports a global calendar which I also support.

NH heavyweights will never, ever budge from the Six Nations so it has to hinge around that. Maybe from the start of February to the end of October.

[Ellafan]

Ignoring this sidebar, I know Hansen supports a global calendar which I also support.

NH heavyweights will never, ever budge from the Six Nations so it has to hinge around that. Maybe from the start of February to the end of October.

What about:

and a revenue-sharing model that would allow NZ Rugby to earn money from All Blacks’ games in the northern hemisphere,

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

[Ellafan]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

The NH Unions seem resistant to that.

[eldanielfire]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

[earl the beaver]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

The NH Unions seem resistant to that.

Because there is more money generated in the NH and therefore they don't want to lose money, hardly surprising is it?

[earl the beaver]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

[Ellafan]

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

How about:

The ABs will turn up at Twickers .... if you pay them US$5 million (clear of all travel costs)?

[A6D6E6]

Aren't the NZ fans a bit embarrassed that the NZRU financial strategy appears to be standing on a corner begging?

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

[La soule]

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

He is right though. Rugby should be limited during July/August because:

It is too warm
There would hardly be a soul in the stadium/in front of the television.

You guys can choose to play between September and June and the 6N does not move.

[earl the beaver]

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

Because that proposal for a global season is wank, why should the NH move their season to align with the SH? The NH season is the one that works.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

He is right though. Rugby should be limited during July/August because:

It is too warm
There would hardly be a soul in the stadium/in front of the television.

You guys can choose to play between September and June and the 6N does not move.

So play the internationals in July in the Southern Hemisphere.

Oh wait, like they already do.

Not willing to budge.

This is not a serious negotiation.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Fuck this global season bollocks.

Rugby is a winter sport and there's only really a 6 week gap without for NH players anyway with club rugby finishing late may/early June and June Tours before it starts again mid August. The NH season works, it's the SH's responsibility to find something that works for them.

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

Because that proposal for a global season is wank, why should the NH move their season to align with the SH? The NH season is the one that works.

Do you have a proposal for a global season?

If so, what's the calendar?

Feel free to paste the existing NH season below.

[earl the beaver]

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

He is right though. Rugby should be limited during July/August because:

It is too warm
There would hardly be a soul in the stadium/in front of the television.

You guys can choose to play between September and June and the 6N does not move.

So play the internationals in July in the Southern Hemisphere.

Oh wait, like they already do.

Not willing to budge.

This is not a serious negotiation.

You aren't suggesting the NH budge, you are suggesting the NH adopt the SH season.

1. Feb to October does not give enough time to complete the NH Season.
2. The NH season is hugely successful
3. Games over the festive period are hugely successful for crowds and audiences, the November - Feb period sits well for NH crowds and television audiences

[earl the beaver]

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

Because that proposal for a global season is wank, why should the NH move their season to align with the SH? The NH season is the one that works.

Do you have a proposal for a global season?

If so, what's the calendar?

Feel free to paste the existing NH season below.

My proposal? I've already said the idea is wank, what is wrong with having the season play to different dates in the NH and SH or are we just going to pretend that the seasons don't change when you switch hemisphere?

[La soule]

That's pretty much the terrible attitude preventing the global season in a nutshell.

Well done, earl. From your little corner in the middle of nowheresville.

He is right though. Rugby should be limited during July/August because:

It is too warm
There would hardly be a soul in the stadium/in front of the television.

You guys can choose to play between September and June and the 6N does not move.

So play the internationals in July in the Southern Hemisphere.

Oh wait, like they already do.

Not willing to budge.

This is not a serious negotiation.

Not willing to lose money indeed.

[Hugo]

What is the reason for the proposed global calendar? I just don't see what the benefits would be and the risk of alienating fans by interfering with traditional calendars is a concern.

[eldanielfire]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Why does there need to be a global calendar season? Why also does it have to fit the Southern Hemisphere calendar and not the other way round? It's not the Northern Hemisphere who keeps complaining the season is a problem. If the SH wants to fit a global calendar then simply switch the dates of SH rugby to fit the NH.

Oh and there is a reason why the 6 Nations shouldn't be moved much. Having it's own block of time when there are no other major sporting events is a bonus and part of it's success.

[eldanielfire]

What is the reason for the proposed global calendar? I just don't see what the benefits would be and the risk of alienating fans by interfering with traditional calendars is a concern.

A question that so far no one has provided any rational explanation for. Some how figures in the South Hemisphere seem to think it will be resolve some non-existent issues in Rugby and that somehow despite the fact the SH competitions were losing viewers by being to similar rehashes of the same match-ups, somehow that is where the more financially successful Northern Hemisphere rugby unions should go and abandon it's prior success.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I'm under the impression a quid pro quo deal would only make NH unions lose money. The issue is still the Southern Hemisphere model of Rugby is financially flawed.

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Why does there need to be a global calendar season? Why also does it have to fit the Southern Hemisphere calendar and not the other way round? It's not the Northern Hemisphere who keeps complaining the season is a problem. If the SH wants to fit a global calendar then simply switch the dates of SH rugby to fit the NH.

Oh and there is a reason why the 6 Nations shouldn't be moved much. Having it's own block of time when there are no other major sporting events is a bonus and part of it's success.

Trust me. No one is suggesting moving your Six Nations. We get that it's a cash cow that allows rugby fans to get a sneaky away lay in exotic cities like Rome and Cardiff.

With player burnout being an issue, it has been suggested that a global season might assist in player attrition. Given the lack of interest in the NH, that might just be a fantasy.

If February to the end of October doesn't work for a global season, what might? Just canvassing views. I don't want to upset anyone in the NH, like the idea of professionalism or the Rugby World Cup once did.

[JM2K6]

What is the reason for the proposed global calendar? I just don't see what the benefits would be and the risk of alienating fans by interfering with traditional calendars is a concern.

Yep. Anyone advocating for a global season needs to come up with an answer to "Why" that looks at all parties involved.

[earl the beaver]

What is the reason for the proposed global calendar? I just don't see what the benefits would be and the risk of alienating fans by interfering with traditional calendars is a concern.

SHers want a slice of that sweet, sweet NH cash.

[JM2K6]

Like I think the NH season has a lot of problems and NH rugby isn't particularly sane. I'm not against the concept of moving any of our tournaments. But it has to be with good reason.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

What is the reason for the proposed global calendar? I just don't see what the benefits would be and the risk of alienating fans by interfering with traditional calendars is a concern.

SHers want a slice of that sweet, sweet NH cash.

Pipe down Ulster boy. You're lucky to be part of the discussion.

[Enzedder]

I wish that we could move away from the amateur model. It worked fine in the 1960s but we've moved on. Turning up to play for free is bollocks.

I would be happy if NH played it's comp, SH played their comp and they were then free to negotiate other games - dates, fees etc. I would love to see a series against the Poms but the only way that can happen is up there and if the outdated system is canned.

Probably won't get many friendlies down here though which is the downside

[Kawazaki]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

10% of the gate at Twickenham is likely worth more than 50% of the gate at Eden Park.

[eldanielfire]

It's not up to us punters to get it done. World Rugby needs to take responsibility for a Feb to end of October global season. We in the SH get that the 6N is your cash cow, and it can still happen.

Why does there need to be a global calendar season? Why also does it have to fit the Southern Hemisphere calendar and not the other way round? It's not the Northern Hemisphere who keeps complaining the season is a problem. If the SH wants to fit a global calendar then simply switch the dates of SH rugby to fit the NH.

Oh and there is a reason why the 6 Nations shouldn't be moved much. Having it's own block of time when there are no other major sporting events is a bonus and part of it's success.

Trust me. No one is suggesting moving your Six Nations. We get that it's a cash cow that allows rugby fans to get a sneaky away lay in exotic cities like Rome and Cardiff.

With player burnout being an issue, it has been suggested that a global season might assist in player attrition. Given the lack of interest in the NH, that might just be a fantasy.

If February to the end of October doesn't work for a global season, what might? Just canvassing views. I don't want to upset anyone in the NH, like the idea of professionalism or the Rugby World Cup once did.

The NH season stops in June and starts September. Moving the NH season won't lessen the number of matches in a season. It's the same length as the SH. A global calendar won't change the number of games. It's not a magic wand that will wish away Rugby's ills and haven't in any way given any reason why it will.

[Kiwias]

Because that proposal for a global season is wank, why should the NH move their season to align with the SH? The NH season is the one that works.

Do you have a proposal for a global season?

If so, what's the calendar?

Feel free to paste the existing NH season below.

My proposal? I've already said the idea is wank, what is wrong with having the season play to different dates in the NH and SH or are we just going to pretend that the seasons don't change when you switch hemisphere?

And that, sirs, in a nutshell is why Japan should find a way to participate in a NH competition.

[eldanielfire]

Do you have a proposal for a global season?

If so, what's the calendar?

Feel free to paste the existing NH season below.

My proposal? I've already said the idea is wank, what is wrong with having the season play to different dates in the NH and SH or are we just going to pretend that the seasons don't change when you switch hemisphere?

And that, sirs, in a nutshell is why Japan should find a way to participate in a NH competition.

It's difficult for Japan. The European teams are so far away for a viable regular competition, the RC sides are already stretched out and in another hemisphere and Japan's natural geographical allies are Canada and the USA who are probably to weak a opposition to face regularly.

[Ellafan]

I'm not close to the financials but I'm sure it wouldn't be rocket science to work out a quid pro quo deal.

Give the Jaapies, Aussies, and Kiwis a share of the gate that gets so many expats to Twickers and Aviva Stadium and in turn hand back a fair bit when the UK and Irish rock up to Stadium Australia, Eden Park and Ellis Pork.

10% of the gate at Twickenham is likely worth more than 50% of the gate at Eden Park.

Can you put together some numbers on ticket sales that show that to be true (or show the real figures), or are you just trolling?

[Carter's Choice]

I remember chatting with Toga a few years back, and he assured me that the RFU could sell out Twickenham three times over regardless of who England were playing, such is the demand for tickets there. And that the ticket prices are always at a premium, so a ticket to watch the All Blacks costs the same as a ticket to watch Italy, Georgia or Swaziland. Therefore there is no need for the RFU to make any compromises or cut any deals because they already have more money than they can ever spend.

[Ellafan]

I remember chatting with Toga a few years back, and he assured me that the RFU could sell out Twickenham three times over regardless of who England were playing, such is the demand for tickets there. And that the ticket prices are always at a premium, so a ticket to watch the All Blacks costs the same as a ticket to watch Italy, Georgia or Swaziland. Therefore there is no need for the RFU to make any compromises or cut any deals because they already have more money than they can ever spend.

Except that I am reading they have cut the 7's and about 100 community rugby coaches and development officers, to save a few million. And the usual tours agreement-contract-schedule has been frustrated by covid, meaning it is dead and buried - this is the perfect time for NZR to put the squeeze on and demand a commercial recompense for allowing the RFU to use its visiting team to fill Twickenham.

As the articles says, this has already happened for extra tests (and a I have a recollection Wales and Australia have played extra tests in December "for a fee"). Why not make it the norm across the board?

[Glaston]

Ellafan


Lol at the emoticons name.

[Ellafan]

Ellafan


Lol at the emoticons name.

Are you talking about a globalised calendar?

Or are you talking about the regime which might be applied to revenue sharing for rugby tests, across the board rather than for "extra" games?

You might want to think about the latter, because it looks like the free paydays at Twickenham courtesy of Brand All Blacks are kaput.

[Carter's Choice]

Why I find hard to fathom is that the All Blacks sell out Murrayfield most NH Autumns, making millions for the Scottish union every time they play there, but the Scots have toured NZ just once in the last 15 years. The WR calendar and scheduling is a sham, designed solely to benefit the Home Nations.

[Kiwias]

And that, sirs, in a nutshell is why Japan should find a way to participate in a NH competition.

It's difficult for Japan. The European teams are so far away for a viable regular competition, the RC sides are already stretched out and in another hemisphere and Japan's natural geographical allies are Canada and the USA who are probably to weak a opposition to face regularly.

Yes, but having Japan in a SH tournament with home and away matches would require playing here in mid-summer -- high-30s and humidity above 80%.

[Enzedder]

Same reason that South Africa will never be able to join the NH season. People forget about summer and winter for some reason