The Official English Rugby Thread

[Bullet]

Sinkler fit, Dombrandt on bench

ENGLAND XV
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps)
14. Max Malins (Saracens, 13 caps)
13. Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 10 caps)
12. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 46 caps) (VC)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 8 caps)
9. Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 4 caps)
1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 64 caps) (VC)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 50 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 54 caps)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 29 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 91 caps) (C)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 39 caps) (VC)
8. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)

FINISHERS 16. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 5 caps) 17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 77 caps) 18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 18 caps) 19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 69 caps) 20. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 7 caps) 21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 115 caps) 22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 79 caps) 23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 55 caps)

[Paddington Bear]

Hard to argue too much with that

[sockwithaticket]

Yes, not too much to quibble.

I'd have liked to see Launch start and empty the tanks for 50 minutes.

Can't help, but feel one or even both of Nowell and Daly should be swapped out for someone a bit more exciting like Radwan, Hassell-Collins or Lozowski.

Otherwise there's not a huge amount else to change with the available personnel.

[SaintK]

Yes, not too much to quibble.

I'd have liked to see Launch start and empty the tanks for 50 minutes.

Can't help, but feel one or even both of Nowell and Daly should be swapped out for someone a bit more exciting like Radwan, Hassell-Collins or Lozowski.

Otherwise there's not a huge amount else to change with the available personnel.

Yep, +1

[Margin__Walker]

U20s line up for the weekend. Great to see Will Joseph back after a long time injured. Should be a tough game

England U20 v Ireland U20 Sat 7.15pm

15. George Hendy
14. Deago Bailey
13. Jacob Cusick
12. Ethan Grayson
11. Cassius Cleaves
10. Jamie Benson
9. Sam Edwards
1. Fin Baxter
2. John Stewart
3. Tim Hoyt
4. Lewis Chessum
5. Tom Lockett
6. Ewan Richards
7. Toby Knight
8. Emeka Ilione

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas
17. Mark Dormer
18. Mike Summerfield
19. Chandler Cunningham-South
20. Lucas Brooke
21. Nye Thomas
22. Louie Johnson
23. Will Joseph

[Ovals]

U20s line up for the weekend. Great to see Will Joseph back after a long time injured. Should be a tough game

England U20 v Ireland U20 Sat 7.15pm

15. George Hendy
14. Deago Bailey
13. Jacob Cusick
12. Ethan Grayson
11. Cassius Cleaves
10. Jamie Benson
9. Sam Edwards
1. Fin Baxter
2. John Stewart
3. Tim Hoyt
4. Lewis Chessum
5. Tom Lockett
6. Ewan Richards
7. Toby Knight
8. Emeka Ilione

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas
17. Mark Dormer
18. Mike Summerfield
19. Chandler Cunningham-South
20. Lucas Brooke
21. Nye Thomas
22. Louie Johnson
23. Will Joseph

Disappointing that Arundell isn't playing. Based on their performances so far, this will be a very tough game for us.

[JM2K6]

Good to see Cleaves again.

Hope Fin Baxter - very highly rated at Quins - doesn't get bent in half again

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, it's not been a vintage year so far. Richards being there will certainly strengthen the pack.

Arundell likely pulled for club duty at Welford Rd on Sat. Hendy's pretty decent too though.

[Margin__Walker]

Good to see Cleaves again.

Hope Fin Baxter - very highly rated at Quins - doesn't get bent in half again

It's been pretty worrying from a front row perspective. Baxter's obviously got a big rep, but I don't see any of the others going all the way from this crop.

[geordie_6]

Given how Eddie has reacted to poor performances from individuals, hopefully it will be the last time we see Ewels...

[tc27]

Itoje was very very good today.

Youngs and Daly made the team worse.

[JM2K6]

Itoje was very very good today.

Youngs and Daly made the team worse.

Don't think hooking a relatively fresh Dombrandt for Launchbury improved matters either

[sockwithaticket]

Itoje was very very good today.

Youngs and Daly made the team worse.

Unquestionably and that shouldn't be ignored in the post-game analysis or hand-waved away by the fact it was 14 on 15 deep into the second half, though I suspect it will be.

[sockwithaticket]

Itoje was very very good today.

Youngs and Daly made the team worse.

Don't think hooking a relatively fresh Dombrandt for Launchbury improved matters either

Can only assume Dombrandt was injured, it made zero sense otherwise.

[JM2K6]

James Lowe - 211 metres with ball in hand, 6 defenders beaten... Wonder if ASMO will ever change his mind about him

[Oxbow]

James Lowe - 211 metres with ball in hand, 6 defenders beaten... Wonder if ASMO will ever change his mind about him

Nah, he'll be focusing hard on how well Nowell played on the flank.

[JM2K6]

Daly - 4 attempted tackles, 3 missed...

[Lobby]

Itoje was very very good today.

Youngs and Daly made the team worse.

Don't think hooking a relatively fresh Dombrandt for Launchbury improved matters either

Can only assume Dombrandt was injured, it made zero sense otherwise.

I assumed, because he had Covid in the week, the coaches thought that he might be running out of puff having played since the 2nd minute (or perhaps their computerized monitoring systems were saying he was slowing down). Either way, even if he was slowing a bit, it was still better to have a functioning back row on the field, rather than 3 locks.

As against Scotland, the only finishing Eddie’s ‘finishers’ managed, was to lose the game.

[Margin__Walker]

Pretty miserable day on the rugby front.

Supporting two different team, both conceding 1st half reds (Rona for LI too at Welford Rd). Both fair enough calls, but so deflating as a fan looking forward to the game.

Still think that England backline is a mess. Just doesn't feel coherent or balanced at all.

[ASMO]

Eddie Jones has fucked England rugby for the next 5 years, it will take that long to get rid of the utter cesspit he has created Fuck him.

[JM2K6]

Don't think hooking a relatively fresh Dombrandt for Launchbury improved matters either

Can only assume Dombrandt was injured, it made zero sense otherwise.

I assumed, because he had Covid in the week, the coaches thought that he might be running out of puff having played since the 2nd minute (or perhaps their computerized monitoring systems were saying he was slowing down). Either way, even if he was slowing a bit, it was still better to have a functioning back row on the field, rather than 3 locks.

As against Scotland, the only finishing Eddie’s ‘finishers’ managed, was to lose the game.

Dombrandt didn't come on in the 2nd minute, he came on for Curry and played 53 minutes.

[Lobby]

Can only assume Dombrandt was injured, it made zero sense otherwise.

I assumed, because he had Covid in the week, the coaches thought that he might be running out of puff having played since the 2nd minute (or perhaps their computerized monitoring systems were saying he was slowing down). Either way, even if he was slowing a bit, it was still better to have a functioning back row on the field, rather than 3 locks.

As against Scotland, the only finishing Eddie’s ‘finishers’ managed, was to lose the game.

Dombrandt didn't come on in the 2nd minute, he came on for Curry and played 53 minutes.

Fair enough. Subbing him made even less sense then.

[geordie_6]

Pretty miserable day on the rugby front.

Supporting two different team, both conceding 1st half reds (Rona for LI too at Welford Rd). Both fair enough calls, but so deflating as a fan looking forward to the game.

Still think that England backline is a mess. Just doesn't feel coherent or balanced at all.

We need some pace out wide. As much as I like Nowell, he is slow as molasses. Someone like Radwan needs to be given a go.

Flip side is that Nowell is the only person we have who carries aggressively and effectively in traffic.

[Margin__Walker]

Pretty miserable day on the rugby front.

Supporting two different team, both conceding 1st half reds (Rona for LI too at Welford Rd). Both fair enough calls, but so deflating as a fan looking forward to the game.

Still think that England backline is a mess. Just doesn't feel coherent or balanced at all.

We need some pace out wide. As much as I like Nowell, he is slow as molasses. Someone like Radwan needs to be given a go.

Flip side is that Nowell is the only person we have who carries aggressively and effectively in traffic.

Yep, both have their uses, but if Malins and 2022 Nowell are your first choice wings as a Tier 1 nation, you've got an issue.

Especially with Steward at the back, who's safe, but never going to really threaten.

[sockwithaticket]

Unfortunately we got a glimpse of Steward's lack of pace when he turned to chase Lowe. Someone in the back three has to be replaced by a player with real gas.

[JM2K6]

Worryingly, Malins looked slow coming across and did lose the physical battle as well.

[Ovals]

Worryingly, Malins looked slow coming across and did lose the physical battle as well.

And he failed to make any yards with the ball - according to my fantasy team he made zero yards.

[Crash669]

Worryingly, Malins looked slow coming across and did lose the physical battle as well.

Yes I thought that too. This was probably Nowell's best game for England recently but by virtue of his work in the air and in traffic.

[geordie_6]

Unfortunately we got a glimpse of Steward's lack of pace when he turned to chase Lowe. Someone in the back three has to be replaced by a player with real gas.

I always think its a bit harsh to compare a players pace on the turn.

That being said, I would definitely like him to get to know an Olympic sprint coach. Worked for Mike Brown, for a while...

[HKCJ]

Congrats England. Couldn’t watch the game but I see reading the rhetoric in the English press this morning it must have been a fine victory.

[Margin__Walker]

Congrats England. Couldn’t watch the game but I see reading the rhetoric in the English press this morning it must have been a fine victory.

Thanks for the input.

[geordie_6]

The Furlong challenge on Slade, how did it not prompt another look/discussion about sanctions?

[Paddington Bear]

Hard to know what to say about yesterday.
You cannot fault the effort or the courage there, I genuinely thought we were going to win around the 50 minute mark.
Ewels - fuck off. Hopefully the last time we see him in an England shirt. Don’t give me any ‘letter of the law’/unlucky stuff, just don’t get yourself in that position. Fortunately his team mates have had 25 caps worth of accommodating his empty shirt so we adapted pretty well.

Genge is approaching world XV status. How much fun was it seeing him tear into Furlong? How did Furlong not cop a card?

Nowell had his best game in ages, Randall was so clearly better than Youngs it’s a little embarrassing and Maro was everywhere.

All that said, it’s a big loss and another lost year. I can see a quality side emerging from this but it’s approaching now or never territory.
Ref was shit - another theme of this championship.

[tc27]

On one hand players saying how proud they were of the performance today...who am I to disagree?

On the other hand clearly a talented team with world class players in some positions but something badly wrong. Getting back to 15 all with 14 men doesn't really disguise a record defeat at home.

[sockwithaticket]

On one hand players saying how proud they were of the performance today...who am I to disagree?

On the other hand clearly a talented team with world class players in some positions but something badly wrong. Getting back to 15 all with 14 men doesn't really disguise a record defeat at home.

Or how blunt we are in attack. Seen plenty of games with a red card, even an early one, where the disadvantaged team does more with the ball in hand.

The defensive effort was valiant for 70 minutes, but we never looked like sneaking a win.

[SaintK]

Congrats England. Couldn’t watch the game but I see reading the rhetoric in the English press this morning it must have been a fine victory.

Thanks.
You've just wasted your once every 6 month post trolling on this thread.
Stick to the Scotland or match threads or just bugger off for another 6 months please

[Madness]

Well that went well......

Positives
The crowd - best I've heard at Twickenham for a long time, really made an impact on the players
The front 5 all put in massive performances and I think Farrell must be concerned that his tight 5 is good, excellent round the park but lacks a bit of heft against the biggest packs
Nowell - exactly his sort of roll your sleeves up, 50% wing/50% flanker, smash people get high balls game
Randall - added some pace and rapid distribution, I give no fucks that he was run over by a No 8 2 metres from the line as there's not a 9 in the world who would have stopped that try but bet Eddie holds it against him and starts Youngs vs France.
Smith - managed the game well, always a player down in the backs it was sensible to play the high ball game
Commitment in defence was outstanding and to be fair we did get the rub of the green on a couple of ref decisions after the sending off.

Ok
Simmonds and Dombrandt worked well and was surprised to see Dombrandt come off for Launch, I think at that point it would have been more sensible to swop Malins for Launch, get Nowell back into the backs and continue to keep it tight, the only way to win would be to continue to overpower Ireland up front,
Marchant and Slade good defensively and would not have taken Marchant off for Daly
Steward - still early on and easy to give him hassle about his pace but just his presence seems to stop the box kicks that plagued England with Daly at the back,

Negatives
Biggest is that this performance allows Eddie and his coaching team off the hook despite likely to be a 2nd six nations with only 2 wins.
Sub timing and choice - not a lot of choice for Curry and Sinks but Launch/Dombrandt and Daly/Marchant were poor decisions
Youngs - cant even be bothered to gob off at his performance again
Malins - really not his day, not fast enough to off Lowe the outside, not strong enough to smash him, vanished from the game and should have been subbed for another forward.
Did we ever get decent possession inside the Ireland 22?

Breath......

And Ewels
Monumentally stupid and guaranteed a defeat. Never really seen what point of difference he offers at international level, he's a decent club player but should be nowhere near the starting XV for England. Apparently he talks well in training and thats getting him in. Far better players have been dropped never to be seen again on much less of a fuck up that him so if Eddie has any credibility then Ewels has to be done for England.

[sockwithaticket]

For anyone who didn't know, Wasps - Saints is on ITV today.

Teams





Both teams are capable of playing some very good stuff, but do tend to mix in plenty of being completely inept and conceding loads of points. Could be a topsy turvy game with little control. Enjoyable for the neutral rather than the fans.

[Ovals]

Whilst they can be proud of the 'effort', it doesn't really count for much - it was still a loss and there are still huge issues with our team that don't seem close to being resolved.

1. We miss far too many tackles.
2. The centre partnership is completely toothless and lacks creativity (but also see 6.)
3. The back three, as a combo, is too slow.
4. Our performances seem to drop off a cliff when the 'finishers' are brought on.
5. We lack enough (if any) real ball carriers that get us over the gain line or suck in defenders.
6 The speed of our rucks is still far too slow.
7. We rarely see our players offloading the ball - whether this is a lack of skill/technique or poor support running.

[Hal Jordan]

12 is a real issue. Slade is not an inside centre, no matter how much Jones is wedded to the second playmaker concept. Other than getting a whack on the head and not kicking for the posts when the ref moved the ball forward, I honestly can't remember a single thing he did. Apparently he stood at 10 sometimes according to the commentator.

Youngs for Randall is just embarrassing now.