European Cup w/c 8 April Catch-All Thread

[inactionman]

Mercer moved to Scotland at 8 years old and learned his rugby at primary school in Glasgow before going to Merchiston where a lot of rugby scholarships are granted

As was mentioned, he was in the Glasgow academy and had played for Scotland U16s

One that got away

A colleague of mine plays over in Glasgow and had a game against Mercer when he (Mercer) was still a schoolboy - said he's never been hit harder.

Think he put his hand up to represent Scotland U18s a year early but wasn't selected, after which Bath got in on the act and the steer was he'd not get picked for Scotland whilst playing in England. More a case of 'nose of to spite face' than 'one who got away'. Don't thi khe was partocuarly wedded to either England or Scotland before that point, almost a case of going with whatever was on the table.

[Biffer]

Leicester v Leinster at a packed Welford Road in front of 30,000. That's what European competition should be about. Belter of a tie.

All four games looking pretty good tbh.

POersonally I'm looking forward to a civilised middle class city clash in the Challenge Cup in Edinburgh v Bath.

The winner awarded a nicely pressed pair of red trousers

Indeed, or a nice waxed jacket.

[inactionman]

Leicester v Leinster at a packed Welford Road in front of 30,000. That's what European competition should be about. Belter of a tie.

All four games looking pretty good tbh.

POersonally I'm looking forward to a civilised middle class city clash in the Challenge Cup in Edinburgh v Bath.

We finally booked our first holiday away for 2 fecking years and we've landed on the exact weekend Bath play Edinburgh.

It's an 8:00 KO as well, so would have been able to dive out after childcare.

I've still not been to the new Edinburgh stadium, need to break that duck soon.

[Tichtheid]

Leicester v Leinster at a packed Welford Road in front of 30,000. That's what European competition should be about. Belter of a tie.

All four games looking pretty good tbh.

POersonally I'm looking forward to a civilised middle class city clash in the Challenge Cup in Edinburgh v Bath.

The winner awarded a nicely pressed pair of red trousers

Indeed, or a nice waxed jacket.

Stout tan brogues and cashmere knitwear to finish the look off?

[sockwithaticket]

Mercer moved to Scotland at 8 years old and learned his rugby at primary school in Glasgow before going to Merchiston where a lot of rugby scholarships are granted

As was mentioned, he was in the Glasgow academy and had played for Scotland U16s

One that got away

Am I right in thinking that the residency clock doesn't start ticking until players turn 18 , so, even if he had stayed north of the border rather than heading down to Bath and joining up with England U20s, he wouldn't have been eligible to represent the senior Scotland side until he turned 21?

Maybe, how old were the Vunipola bothers when they first played for England?

I didn't know that was the case with residency

I must be talking out of my arse. Even though I can't quite recall whether Billy was 20 or 21, Manu was definitely 20.

I swear I've read something about residency qualification that concerns an age of majority, though.

[PornDog]

Am I right in thinking that the residency clock doesn't start ticking until players turn 18 , so, even if he had stayed north of the border rather than heading down to Bath and joining up with England U20s, he wouldn't have been eligible to represent the senior Scotland side until he turned 21?

Maybe, how old were the Vunipola bothers when they first played for England?

I didn't know that was the case with residency

I must be talking out of my arse. Even though I can't quite recall whether Billy was 20 or 21, Manu was definitely 20.

I swear I've read something about residency qualification that concerns an age of majority, though.

There's something about that with regard to TIFF regs in France I believe - like you have to have spent X years before a certain age in France to qualify as a TIFF player or some such.

[SaintK]

The winner awarded a nicely pressed pair of red trousers

Indeed, or a nice waxed jacket.

Stout tan brogues and cashmere knitwear to finish the look off?

Isn't that Openside's uniform?

[ASMO]

Indeed, or a nice waxed jacket.

Stout tan brogues and cashmere knitwear to finish the look off?

Isn't that Openside's uniform?

Alongside the knitted y-fronts, ask his butler

[Torquemada 1420]

Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

I wonder why nobody has ever tried that before

When they do, he usually reacts poorly.

He must be the most overrated player since Ronan O'Gara.

That's just daft. He is passed it now but for a season or so had a genuine claim for world's best.

[Uncle fester]

Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

I wonder why nobody has ever tried that before

Toga might be fishing with TNT but Leinster have got caught when they come up against teams that can match their physicality and there's no plan B. The URC is such a cakewalk for them that they don't seem to be able to adjust when the opposition (at euro level) stubbornly refuse to lose.

[fishfoodie]

Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

I wonder why nobody has ever tried that before

Toga might be fishing with TNT but Leinster have got caught when they come up against teams that can match their physicality and there's no plan B. The URC is such a cakewalk for them that they don't seem to be able to adjust when the opposition (at euro level) stubbornly refuse to lose.

Absolutely correct; it's all the fault of the Welsh for being so shite !

[Tichtheid]

I don't know.... no one wins forever and ever, even the All Blacks lose.

Leinster's record or four golds and a silver in Europe is only second to Toulouse's 5 wins and 2 runners up.

Of course they can be beaten, but it will take a very good side playing really really well to do it this year.

[PornDog]

Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

I wonder why nobody has ever tried that before

Toga might be fishing with TNT but Leinster have got caught when they come up against teams that can match their physicality and there's no plan B. The URC is such a cakewalk for them that they don't seem to be able to adjust when the opposition (at euro level) stubbornly refuse to lose.

While that has certainly been true, it ≠ Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

Practically everybody goes after Sexton every single game (at least those teams that are not complete dogshit), that's not what does for Leinster (or Ireland) - I can't think of a single game where that's been the case. Getting at our rucks is the key to beating Leinster and unfortunately there are a few examples (easier said than done mind). It's about as insightful a comment as "go after the 10", but at least in this case its true compared to the complete bollox Toga was spouting.

[Jock42]

The winner awarded a nicely pressed pair of red trousers

Indeed, or a nice waxed jacket.

Stout tan brogues and cashmere knitwear to finish the look off?

Thank fuck I'm night shift.

[Uncle fester]

I wonder why nobody has ever tried that before

Toga might be fishing with TNT but Leinster have got caught when they come up against teams that can match their physicality and there's no plan B. The URC is such a cakewalk for them that they don't seem to be able to adjust when the opposition (at euro level) stubbornly refuse to lose.

While that has certainly been true, it ≠ Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

Practically everybody goes after Sexton every single game (at least those teams that are not complete dogshit), that's not what does for Leinster (or Ireland) - I can't think of a single game where that's been the case. Getting at our rucks is the key to beating Leinster and unfortunately there are a few examples (easier said than done mind). It's about as insightful a comment as "go after the 10", but at least in this case its true compared to the complete bollox Toga was spouting.

Saracens went after Healy. Koch absolutely monstered him. There's nearly always some weak link if you've the nous and ability to exploit it.

[Paddington Bear]

We all saw Leinster nearly lose to Connacht right? They're a good side but hardly unbeatable

[Tichtheid]

Re the Plan B thing, I'm never sure what this is supposed to mean though you hear it all the time. It can't mean throw out your game plan and try something completely different, the analysis the coaching staff will have done on the opposition will still hold true, they will still be strong where you expect them to be.

Kick if you've been running it and run it if you've been kicking it - is that it?
Yeah you can adapt - say your maul has been getting nowhere, you might take the scrum or take the points, but does that really constitute a Plan B?

I'm sure someone will come up with examples but I can't really think of that many games where a team that is struggling has completely changed their tactics and made a romping come back. The Calcutta Cup game at Twickenham a few years ago wasn't the result of a change of tactics, more that England's defence fell apart as Scotland's passes began to stick and the line breaks came off.

I'm completely open to hearing that teams do have a Plan B, maybe I'm missing it.

[Tichtheid]

We all saw Leinster nearly lose to Connacht right? They're a good side but hardly unbeatable

The thing about Connacht is that they can ship 50 to Edinburgh one week and then really go after their siblings the next, especially at the Sportsground.
Edinburgh are the same, get battered week in week out then give Glasgow a doing.

Connacht won the league a few seasons ago too, they're no mugs.

[Kawazaki]

Re the Plan B thing, I'm never sure what this is supposed to mean though you hear it all the time. It can't mean throw out your game plan and try something completely different, the analysis the coaching staff will have done on the opposition will still hold true, they will still be strong where you expect them to be.

Kick if you've been running it and run it if you've been kicking it - is that it?
Yeah you can adapt - say your maul has been getting nowhere, you might take the scrum or take the points, but does that really constitute a Plan B?

I'm sure someone will come up with examples but I can't really think of that many games where a team that is struggling has completely changed their tactics and made a romping come back. The Calcutta Cup game at Twickenham a few years ago wasn't the result of a change of tactics, more that England's defence fell apart as Scotland's passes began to stick and the line breaks came off.

I'm completely open to hearing that teams do have a Plan B, maybe I'm missing it.

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

E.g England under Eddie Jones don't have a Plan B.

[Tichtheid]

Re the Plan B thing, I'm never sure what this is supposed to mean though you hear it all the time. It can't mean throw out your game plan and try something completely different, the analysis the coaching staff will have done on the opposition will still hold true, they will still be strong where you expect them to be.

Kick if you've been running it and run it if you've been kicking it - is that it?
Yeah you can adapt - say your maul has been getting nowhere, you might take the scrum or take the points, but does that really constitute a Plan B?

I'm sure someone will come up with examples but I can't really think of that many games where a team that is struggling has completely changed their tactics and made a romping come back. The Calcutta Cup game at Twickenham a few years ago wasn't the result of a change of tactics, more that England's defence fell apart as Scotland's passes began to stick and the line breaks came off.

I'm completely open to hearing that teams do have a Plan B, maybe I'm missing it.

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

E.g England under Eddie Jones don't have a Plan B.

What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed?

[Kawazaki]

Re the Plan B thing, I'm never sure what this is supposed to mean though you hear it all the time. It can't mean throw out your game plan and try something completely different, the analysis the coaching staff will have done on the opposition will still hold true, they will still be strong where you expect them to be.

Kick if you've been running it and run it if you've been kicking it - is that it?
Yeah you can adapt - say your maul has been getting nowhere, you might take the scrum or take the points, but does that really constitute a Plan B?

I'm sure someone will come up with examples but I can't really think of that many games where a team that is struggling has completely changed their tactics and made a romping come back. The Calcutta Cup game at Twickenham a few years ago wasn't the result of a change of tactics, more that England's defence fell apart as Scotland's passes began to stick and the line breaks came off.

I'm completely open to hearing that teams do have a Plan B, maybe I'm missing it.

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

E.g England under Eddie Jones don't have a Plan B.

What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed?

Ok, you write out a 10,000 word essay on something I want answered first and then I'll get started on the reply. That work for you?

[petej]

England's plan A is shite, doesn't match the player's selected, player's are selected out of position and the player's selected are sometimes not in form. Maybe after that England could do with a plan B.

I like the 2 leg format for this round.

[Tichtheid]

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

E.g England under Eddie Jones don't have a Plan B.

What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed?

Ok, you write out a 10,000 word essay on something I want answered first and then I'll get started on the reply. That work for you?

So you don't know then?

I didn't think so.

[Kawazaki]

What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed?

Ok, you write out a 10,000 word essay on something I want answered first and then I'll get started on the reply. That work for you?

So you don't know then?

I didn't think so.

Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.

[Tichtheid]

England's plan A is shite, doesn't match the player's selected, player's are selected out of position and the player's selected are sometimes not in form. Maybe after that England could do with a plan B.

I like the 2 leg format for this round.

That sounds like fair comment, though I don't watch as much Prem rugby as I'd like to because of lack of time, so I don't see who is playing well.

Yeah, I was sceptical about the two leg thing but it's working well at the moment.

[Tichtheid]

Ok, you write out a 10,000 word essay on something I want answered first and then I'll get started on the reply. That work for you?

So you don't know then?

I didn't think so.

Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.

You've obviously got anger issues.

Have a cup of tea and a biscuit, chill out a bit.

[Kawazaki]

You've obviously got anger issues.

Have a cup of tea and a biscuit, chill out a bit.

Not at all, still chuckling that somebody could casually ask; What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed? in this place. Did you register this morning?

[Tichtheid]

You've obviously got anger issues.

Have a cup of tea and a biscuit, chill out a bit.

Not at all, still chuckling that somebody could casually ask; What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed? in this place. Did you register this morning?

"Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.", he chuckled


I was just wondering if you could expand beyond your meaningless post that was in answer to.

[Kawazaki]

You've obviously got anger issues.

Have a cup of tea and a biscuit, chill out a bit.

Not at all, still chuckling that somebody could casually ask; What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed? in this place. Did you register this morning?

"Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.", he chuckled


I was just wondering if you could expand beyond your meaningless post that was in answer to.

For you, no.

[Tichtheid]

Not at all, still chuckling that somebody could casually ask; What have England been doing wrong and how should they have changed? in this place. Did you register this morning?

"Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.", he chuckled


I was just wondering if you could expand beyond your meaningless post that was in answer to.

For you, no.

Well, you can take the huff if you like.

I just wanted to know what examples there were of a Plan B in games and if indeed there was such a thing, and you posted some meaningless stuff about England not having a plan B, which you then refused to expand on when asked.

[Kawazaki]

"Read the forum you lazy cunt. Fucking hell.", he chuckled


I was just wondering if you could expand beyond your meaningless post that was in answer to.

For you, no.

Well, you can take the huff if you like.

I just wanted to know what examples there were of a Plan B in games and if indeed there was such a thing, and you posted some meaningless stuff about England not having a plan B, which you then refused to expand on when asked.

Read the text before the comment that England don't have a plan b. FFS.

[Tichtheid]

For you, no.

Well, you can take the huff if you like.

I just wanted to know what examples there were of a Plan B in games and if indeed there was such a thing, and you posted some meaningless stuff about England not having a plan B, which you then refused to expand on when asked.

Read the text before the comment that England don't have a plan b. FFS.

okay Mr Angry, but

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

Is short hand for the examples I gave in the post before, and to repeat, that is what I was looking for, examples of where teams have changed tack and become successful in a game that they were losing.

[Kawazaki]

Well, you can take the huff if you like.

I just wanted to know what examples there were of a Plan B in games and if indeed there was such a thing, and you posted some meaningless stuff about England not having a plan B, which you then refused to expand on when asked.

Read the text before the comment that England don't have a plan b. FFS.

okay Mr Angry, but

No Plan B doesn't mean what you think it means. It's more a reference to sides that don't adapt but stick rigidly to the same tactic regardless it's efficacy.

Is short hand for the examples I gave in the post before, and to repeat, that is what I was looking for, examples of where teams have changed tack and become successful in a game that they were losing.

That's great.

[PornDog]

Toga might be fishing with TNT but Leinster have got caught when they come up against teams that can match their physicality and there's no plan B. The URC is such a cakewalk for them that they don't seem to be able to adjust when the opposition (at euro level) stubbornly refuse to lose.

While that has certainly been true, it ≠ Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

Practically everybody goes after Sexton every single game (at least those teams that are not complete dogshit), that's not what does for Leinster (or Ireland) - I can't think of a single game where that's been the case. Getting at our rucks is the key to beating Leinster and unfortunately there are a few examples (easier said than done mind). It's about as insightful a comment as "go after the 10", but at least in this case its true compared to the complete bollox Toga was spouting.

Saracens went after Healy. Koch absolutely monstered him. There's nearly always some weak link if you've the nous and ability to exploit it.

I wholeheartedly agree, and monstered isn't an exaggeration. The ruck isn't the only place you can get at Leinster, it's just more often the place where the most questions are asked when indeed they are asked. What they didn't do was go after Sexton (any more than anyone else does) - he wasn't the weakest link.

[petej]

While that has certainly been true, it ≠ Go after Sexton, he's the weakest link.

Practically everybody goes after Sexton every single game (at least those teams that are not complete dogshit), that's not what does for Leinster (or Ireland) - I can't think of a single game where that's been the case. Getting at our rucks is the key to beating Leinster and unfortunately there are a few examples (easier said than done mind). It's about as insightful a comment as "go after the 10", but at least in this case its true compared to the complete bollox Toga was spouting.

Saracens went after Healy. Koch absolutely monstered him. There's nearly always some weak link if you've the nous and ability to exploit it.

I wholeheartedly agree, and monstered isn't an exaggeration. The ruck isn't the only place you can get at Leinster, it's just more often the place where the most questions are asked when indeed they are asked. What they didn't do was go after Sexton (any more than anyone else does) - he wasn't the weakest link.

Getting after the flyhalf is a tactic full stop. The fly half is a key decision maker. Doesn't matter who the flyhalf is or if they are a weak link or a star player. All flyhalves struggle when there is a lack of space and time for them. Can't see tigers beating Leinster if that does end up being a 1/8 final.

[PornDog]

Saracens went after Healy. Koch absolutely monstered him. There's nearly always some weak link if you've the nous and ability to exploit it.

I wholeheartedly agree, and monstered isn't an exaggeration. The ruck isn't the only place you can get at Leinster, it's just more often the place where the most questions are asked when indeed they are asked. What they didn't do was go after Sexton (any more than anyone else does) - he wasn't the weakest link.

Getting after the flyhalf is a tactic full stop. The fly half is a key decision maker. Doesn't matter who the flyhalf is or if they are a weak link or a star player. All flyhalves struggle when there is a lack of space and time for them. Can't see tigers beating Leinster if that does end up being a 1/8 final.

Again I agree - I'm just taking issue with Toga's assertion that Sexton is Leinster's "weak link" and that that is somehow how you beat Leinster - everyone goes after him (and as you say practically every other 10 out there) and I can't point to a single game where him being "got at" is the reason Leinster lost. Disrupting Leinster's rucks is typically what puts them under most pressure (and as Fester points out Kock doing an absolute number on our scrum).

I'm all ears though if Toga wants to give me an example of a game where Leinster lost because Sexton was "got at" though. He'll probably tell me to go and read the fucking thread!!!

It's just a lazy trope and in this case completely wrong, but there you go.

[Kawazaki]

Sexton is the weakest link emotionally, that's how you get at him although a few fractionally late clips to the ribs tend to help that process along too.

There are many examples of Sexton losing his head which impacts his decision making and skill execution. The Welsh are one of the better teams at getting to him.

[PornDog]

[Kawazaki]

I get it, you've got a hard-on for Sexton. That's nice for you but neutrals don't see the same player you see.

[PornDog]

I do have a massive hard on for Sexton - he's been central to a significant amount of success for club and country throughout his career. I also completely understand why some people can't stand him - he's a moany cunt on the pitch, constantly in the ref's ear and he's made a meal out of more than one contact (though people can also make a meal out of his making a meal out of contact - look at how people bitched about him diving after Josh Adams poleaxed him this year).

None of that has one iota got to do with you knowing fuck all about rugby if you think the way to beat Leinster is to "get at" Sexton because he's the "weak link". And to add to that apparently he's emotionally unstable now - FFS Toga!

Whether I think he's awesome or you think he's shite has nothing to do with your hypothesis just being plain wrong.