Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Rhubarb & Custard]

There is quite simply no alternative!!

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

Even then it's odd. The Tory party now will spaff billions up the wall on vanity projects, on nepotism, even billions just to make the economy smaller, and that costs all but a tiny %. Okay if you're earning over £500k a year, or certainly a million and more per annum it'd be worth it just on the money front

[not_english]

It seems obvious to me, putting the moral argument aside for a minute that it is just going to be ludicrously expensive to transport and pay for asylum seekers all the way to Rwanda while their applications are being processed.
Apparently 600 arrived by boat yesterday, just one day.

Surely this is going to end up costing billions (if they can get it through the courts, which seems unlikely).

[Slick]

It seems obvious to me, putting the moral argument aside for a minute that it is just going to be ludicrously expensive to transport and pay for asylum seekers all the way to Rwanda while their applications are being processed.
Apparently 600 arrived by boat yesterday, just one day.

Surely this is going to end up costing billions (if they can get it through the courts, which seems unlikely).

You need to read the small print. They are not getting processed, they are getting dumped

Edit: I thought it was bullshit at first as well. We wouldn’t do that. But, we are. Flying them to Rwanda and leaving them there. I don’t think I could actually come up with that plan in my imagination

[Biffer]

There is quite simply no alternative!!

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

Yeah, he’s convinced himself it’s about competence or something, but it’s purely self interest on his part and fuck anyone less fortunate. Typical Tory boomer.

[Tichtheid]

No alternative to a bunch of incompetents who are fucking over the taxpayer for the benefit of corporations?

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

This is probably fair

Yeah, he’s convinced himself it’s about competence or something, but it’s purely self interest on his part and fuck anyone less fortunate. Typical Tory boomer.

I'd like to see a full breakdown of tax and economic competence between the two major parties in the last 50 years.

You'd have to look at outcomes too.

It only takes one prime ministerial term to run down public services massively but a lot longer to build them back up again, it's like stamping on a violin compared to making one.

My eldest had problems with her ears, she had to have grommets fitted. She was born in 1996. When we started the ENT department was a dank drab place with exhausted staff, the waiting room was rammed with families with screaming kids and you'd have to wait for hours before being seen, everyone was at the end of their tether.

By the time she was discharged several years later the ENT was a nicely lit, newly decorated quiet place where you'd go in and sit for ten minutes tops before being seen. This was the same room.

The same daughter later attended an outreach programme at the new medical school which had just opened here. The idea was to get more state school kids into medicine. This outreach program ran from the first year of secondary school up to A level and through the application process. I could go into great detail as to why state school kids were not getting into medical school, these would not be my views, but the views of the head of admissions at the medical school who ran the outreach programme, but the very short version is that private school kids are prepared from day one to go on to these degrees, state school kids are at a huge disadvantage in the application process.
The traditional application process was set up to ignore huge numbers of talented young people, just because of where they went to school.

The idea of the outreach programmes came from Gordon Brown and it mandated that the new medical schools Labour were providing must run these initiatives.

[Rinkals]

These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

What happened to Rory Stewart?

He seemed okay.

[Biffer]

These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

What happened to Rory Stewart?

He seemed okay.

He quit at the last election and left the Conservative party

[petej]

These people.

The UK moves beyond dumping its toxic waste onto 3rd world countries to dumping its "waste" human beings in a similar manner. This has shades of when the UK decided it was going to create a homeland for the Jews............ in Uganda.

And then you have this c**t
https://news.sky.com/story/tory-mp-crit ... s-12589153

There are over 300 Tory mps but it is always the same 50-60 or so morons who get on the news

What happened to Rory Stewart?

He seemed okay.

Forced out by Johnson.

[Rinkals]

That makes sense.

[Openside]

Although I’ve never voted Tory and usually either spoil my vote or give it to one of the smaller parties, I’d usually have that thought in my mind.

But don’t you think that’s a bit difficult to back up now given Brexit, the constant lying, partygate, offshore, refugees, and on and on and on. It’s just a bit of a lazy statement now, this feels a bit unprecedented in terms of a really shit government taking us in a very wrong direction

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

[Biffer]

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

You either have to tell us

1. The Tories are more competent than labour
2. They’re equally incompetent but I prefer Tory policies that shit all over people
3. You don’t give a shit so long as your tax is low

Which one is it?

[Hal Jordan]

There is quite simply no alternative!!

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Sir is not too bothered, either.

/OS Butler

[Tichtheid]

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

[Torquemada 1420]

Really?

Tell the truth OS, you just don't want to pay any more tax anf fuck anyone who suffers because of it.

OS is in the top 1% of UK earners and so you can hardly expect him to vote for anything that is detrimental to him: although the Tories hate small businesses almost as much as Labour hates enterprise full stop. FWIW, I don't want to pay more taxes either. I want Govts and the public sector to stop p*ssing mine up the wall in corruption, ineptitude and wars. I'd also like big businesses to start paying taxes and no party is signing up to that.

On a wider note, opposition parties have done a terrible job through COVID & Brexit. The fish were there in the barrel for shooting and instead they've done a pretty decent job of shooting themselves in the foot.

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

[C69]

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

He has become a parody a bimbo lite

[robmatic]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

[Openside]

You've lost it son

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

You either have to tell us

1. The Tories are more competent than labour
2. They’re equally incompetent but I prefer Tory policies that shit all over people
3. You don’t give a shit so long as your tax is low

Which one is it?

It’s currently 1)

We all get one vote how we use it is up to us!

[Openside]

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

He has become a parody a bimbo lite

[Raggs]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

Except that fella had already been kicked out of labour by the last election.

I'm sure labour would have had more than enough of their own fuck ups, but it's hard to see how they could have deliberately fucked over the british public to quite the same degree. The Tories haven't just got it wrong through incompetence (though they aren't competent either), they've actively been giving away public funds to their mates, helping themselves to line their own pockets, and not giving a shit about anything else. Actively hurting the country, that we can see, rather than us hypothesising that maybe Labour would have done it too.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

[Uncle fester]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other

Jesus. What was Crispin Blunt thinking defending him!

Also, Rwanda? I thought it was a late April fools when I heard it first.

[fishfoodie]

I'm a little surprised that the latest Tory sexual predator has decided to resign, & force the by-election.

HQ won't be happy; they'd have happily sat out a drawn out appeals process, & avoided a vote for as long as possible. Now we'll get the voters opinion of how well the Government is performing, & whether or not a war in Ukraine is reason enough to stick with the Tories, regardless of how badly they've fucked up domestic issues

[C69]

I'm a little surprised that the latest Tory sexual predator has decided to resign, & force the by-election.

HQ won't be happy; they'd have happily sat out a drawn out appeals process, & avoided a vote for as long as possible. Now we'll get the voters opinion of how well the Government is performing, & whether or not a war in Ukraine is reason enough to stick with the Tories, regardless of how badly they've fucked up domestic issues

The start of the demolition of the Red Wall hopefully

[Tichtheid]

…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

[SaintK]

I'm a little surprised that the latest Tory sexual predator has decided to resign, & force the by-election.

HQ won't be happy; they'd have happily sat out a drawn out appeals process, & avoided a vote for as long as possible. Now we'll get the voters opinion of how well the Government is performing, & whether or not a war in Ukraine is reason enough to stick with the Tories, regardless of how badly they've fucked up domestic issues

Perhaps it was because this hit the headlines this morning

A man has accused Imran Ahmad Khan, the disgraced former Conservative MP, of propositioning him when he was 16.

The man, who the Guardian is calling Andrew (not his real name), says he met Khan at a birthday party in Suffolk in August 2015. He claims Khan, then in his early 40s, offered to give him oral sex and to take him to a hotel room to take cocaine and hire a sex worker.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/20 ... e-was-16

[Biffer]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

You either have to tell us

1. The Tories are more competent than labour
2. They’re equally incompetent but I prefer Tory policies that shit all over people
3. You don’t give a shit so long as your tax is low

Which one is it?

It’s currently 1)

We all get one vote how we use it is up to us!

Can you give me an example of incompetence as bad as writing off four billion pounds of fraud because the scheme you've set up has no way of identifying who did it?

[JM2K6]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

[derriz]

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

It's absolute horseshite. A circle jerk of indignation and sneering. But I see both "sides" using the exact same tactic. If you consider yourself a member of the right team in the "culture war", then keep an eye on the guardian until you find some over-the-top "left" opinion say something like admiring Marxism then express your indignation. The left side are no better - find a quote by Trump or some wing-nut alt-right racist and get highly indignant about it. Then get indignant about the indignation, smearing all "leftists" or "rightists" as being sympathetic to lunatic fringe views.

Actually, it's laughable what is referred to "far left" now - campaigns for gender neutral pronouns and the like? Who gives a fuck? Back in the 70s and 80s, the far left were blowing people up, kidnapping, hijacking airplanes and often acting as agents for an enemy of the state (the USSR). The amount of times you hear that back in the good old days, the far left were more reasonable compared to these days - it's mind boggling.

[JM2K6]

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

Precisely. Trans people have been around for a very long time and they're only a hot topic now because the populist government and some allies in the press, plus some high profile individuals, have made it a big deal. The British public is still hugely supportive of trans rights - including women, in fact a great percentage of women than men agree that trans women are women - but you wouldn't know it given the shit-stirring by a small number of people and the output of our media, who make it seem like there's overwhelming opposition.

It's a niche issue that has been exploited to the hilt for political gain.

[JM2K6]

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

It's absolute horseshite. A circle jerk of indignation and sneering. But I see both "sides" using the exact same tactic. If you consider yourself a member of the right team in the "culture war", then keep an eye on the guardian until you find some over-the-top "left" opinion say something like admiring Marxism then express your indignation. The left side are no better - find a quote by Trump or some wing-nut alt-right racist and get highly indignant about it. Then get indignant about the indignation, smearing all "leftists" or "rightists" as being sympathetic to lunatic fringe views.

Actually, it's laughable what is referred to "far left" now - campaigns for gender neutral pronouns and the like? Who gives a fuck? Back in the 70s and 80s, the far left were blowing people up, kidnapping, hijacking airplanes and often acting as agents for an enemy of the state (the USSR). The amount of times you hear that back in the good old days, the far left were more reasonable compared to these days - it's mind boggling.

It's yet another thing we've imported from the USA. Centrist / centre-right politicians are immediately labelled far-left regardless of their beliefs.

Mind you, I don't think it's quite fair to compare whichever loon has been given the opportunity to write an opinion piece on Comment Is Free with Donald Trump, former US President, most important figure for the current Republican Party, and likely favourite to win the next election...

[Biffer]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

He doesn't realise he's fooled himself into these arguments.

[dpedin]

This is probably fair

Yeah, he’s convinced himself it’s about competence or something, but it’s purely self interest on his part and fuck anyone less fortunate. Typical Tory boomer.

I'd like to see a full breakdown of tax and economic competence between the two major parties in the last 50 years.

You'd have to look at outcomes too.

It only takes one prime ministerial term to run down public services massively but a lot longer to build them back up again, it's like stamping on a violin compared to making one.

My eldest had problems with her ears, she had to have grommets fitted. She was born in 1996. When we started the ENT department was a dank drab place with exhausted staff, the waiting room was rammed with families with screaming kids and you'd have to wait for hours before being seen, everyone was at the end of their tether.

By the time she was discharged several years later the ENT was a nicely lit, newly decorated quiet place where you'd go in and sit for ten minutes tops before being seen. This was the same room.

The same daughter later attended an outreach programme at the new medical school which had just opened here. The idea was to get more state school kids into medicine. This outreach program ran from the first year of secondary school up to A level and through the application process. I could go into great detail as to why state school kids were not getting into medical school, these would not be my views, but the views of the head of admissions at the medical school who ran the outreach programme, but the very short version is that private school kids are prepared from day one to go on to these degrees, state school kids are at a huge disadvantage in the application process.
The traditional application process was set up to ignore huge numbers of talented young people, just because of where they went to school.

The idea of the outreach programmes came from Gordon Brown and it mandated that the new medical schools Labour were providing must run these initiatives.

I did a lot of work in previous life in medical education and had close links with post grad deans etc who ran post grad medical education across Scotland. There was a clear understanding that the traditional recruitment (males with good Highers/A levels from private education sector) had to change primarily because the output of private schools and the kids with 'good' qualifications did not guarantee good doctors of the future. In fact it meant recruiting many who were neither equipped to be doctors or didn't even want to be doctors but were 'railroaded' into it by expectations of parents and schools systems. Many had neither the social skills nor emotional intelligence to succeed and struggled very badly once they hit the real world of medicine in hospitals. Alternatively many of those with less good qualifications and from less privileged backgrounds succeeded very well, not least because they had to have had the determination and will to make it. It is of course too easy to over generalise but, there is strong data to back this up, there is now better balance in recruitment and the NHS is all the better for it.

[GogLais]

It’s funny really. The old Conservative line used to be that they wanted to increase the size of the national cake whereas Labour was more bothered about changing the size of the slices. Seems to be the other way round now with the intent that whoever has the biggest slice gets an even bigger one.

[robmatic]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Yes, it still remains a mystery why the current Tory government, who are objectively terrible on a broad array of measures, won the last two elections.

[JM2K6]

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Yes, it still remains a mystery why the current Tory government, who are objectively terrible on a broad array of measures, won the last two elections.

It's not a mystery at all. However, the previous elections aren't what we're talking about, are they.