Another mass shooting in the US

[Rinkals]

Please stop misquoting me.

Alright, "full of shit", then.

Minor semantics, which don't actually alter the point.

What is so important about the race of the shooter (or the victims, for that matter)?

Rinkals, there's not much point. You either don't read what I write or you just make stuff up.

Try reading Beto's wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beto_O%27Rourke

See if you still think he's "full of shit" and whether Abbott is a better choice.

We, neither of us, have any influence in who Texans vote in as Governor (and, I concede it probably won't be O'Rourke), but writing O'Rouke off as "full of shit", gives a very clear indication of where your political affiliations lie.

[Insane_Homer]

[notfatcat]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

[dpedin]

I turned on the radio and heard some republican US politician talking about the need for controlled entry/exit points, armed guards, lockable doors on every room, armed staff, fencing around the whole building, regular drills in case of violence outbreaks, x-rays at entrances, etc - I thought fair enough if they want to make jails more secure then that's their prerogative ..... it was only at the end of his interview I realised he was talking about primary schools. America is really fucked when schools for young kids resemble jails, truly and utterly fucked. All they are doing is breeding more killers who will still have access to military grade killing weapons.

[Kiwias]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

You could get a job as PR spokesman for a loony right-wing fundamental religious group.

[notfatcat]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

You could get a job as PR spokesman for a loony right-wing fundamental religious group.

Do you disagree with anything I said, if so - what?

[TB63]

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How comfortable would you feel walking into a shop and seeing this?..

[Gumboot]

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How comfortable would you feel walking into a shop and seeing this?..

Self defence, innit. There could be a posse of heavily armed bad girls waiting in ambush just around the next corner.

[notfatcat]

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How comfortable would you feel walking into a shop and seeing this?..

I'd be very wary of travelling to Israel.

[Raggs]

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How comfortable would you feel walking into a shop and seeing this?..

I'd be very wary of travelling to Israel.

At least in Israel 99% of those carrying rifles are in uniform. Sidearms 90% are in some sort of uniform too. Gun licenses are pretty tough to get unless you have a very valid reason to have one. Amusingly though, now a 15 year old story, so maybe things have changed, someone I knew who had rifle, sidearm, and even explosives licenses (game keeper in a large nature reserve), had the most trouble trying to get an air pistol/rifle license. Just wanted it to deal with rats, since it was easier than using a catapault.

[Kiwias]

Maybe they don't do that because the proportion of young men who buy guns who go on to kill someone is extremely small, whereas the proportion of women who want an abortion who go on to kill their unborn baby is very high. Chalk and cheese.

You could get a job as PR spokesman for a loony right-wing fundamental religious group.

Do you disagree with anything I said, if so - what?

More the deliberately emotive way you phrased it.

[notfatcat]

You could get a job as PR spokesman for a loony right-wing fundamental religious group.

Do you disagree with anything I said, if so - what?

More the deliberately emotive way you phrased it.

Well to be fair the pic of the social media post is deliberately emotive, not to mention very stupid.

[Kiwias]

Do you disagree with anything I said, if so - what?

More the deliberately emotive way you phrased it.

Well to be fair the pic of the social media post is deliberately emotive, not to mention very stupid.

Pointing out that there are far greater restrictions on getting an abortion than on purchasing a military-style assault rifle is neither emotive nor stupid. But I sense that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[petej]

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How comfortable would you feel walking into a shop and seeing this?..

I suspect it will deter some unwanted attention. How much gun crime is committed by women? Perhaps just ban men from owning guns.

[TB63]

Would you like a spare clip with your fries?..

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[notfatcat]

More the deliberately emotive way you phrased it.

Well to be fair the pic of the social media post is deliberately emotive, not to mention very stupid.

Pointing out that there are far greater restrictions on getting an abortion than on purchasing a military-style assault rifle is neither emotive nor stupid. But I sense that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

It's both emotive and stupid. Purchasing an assault rifle doesn't necessarily end in a death. In fact it rarely ends in a death. Having an abortion always results in a death. 60 million of them since it was legalised. It's a dumb comparison regardless of how one feels about abortion, unless I suppose one views abortion in the same way one views elective surgery.

[TB63]

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Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well to be fair the pic of the social media post is deliberately emotive, not to mention very stupid.

Pointing out that there are far greater restrictions on getting an abortion than on purchasing a military-style assault rifle is neither emotive nor stupid. But I sense that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

It's both emotive and stupid. Purchasing an assault rifle doesn't necessarily end in a death. In fact it rarely ends in a death. Having an abortion always results in a death. 60 million of them since it was legalised. It's a dumb comparison regardless of how one feels about abortion, unless I suppose one views abortion in the same way one views elective surgery.

I don't know for a fact but I presume most abortions would be more elective procedure than elective surgery. Either way the more critical distinction is the women having abortions are indeed electing to have them, whereas the people being shot dead are not electing to be shot dead.

[Tichtheid]

Pointing out that there are far greater restrictions on getting an abortion than on purchasing a military-style assault rifle is neither emotive nor stupid. But I sense that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

It's both emotive and stupid. Purchasing an assault rifle doesn't necessarily end in a death. In fact it rarely ends in a death. Having an abortion always results in a death. 60 million of them since it was legalised. It's a dumb comparison regardless of how one feels about abortion, unless I suppose one views abortion in the same way one views elective surgery.

I don't know for a fact but I presume most abortions would be more elective procedure than elective surgery. Either way the more critical distinction is the women having abortions are indeed electing to have them, whereas the people being shot dead are not electing to be shot dead.

Every ten year old boy in the US should have a reversible vasectomy. When they are old enough and in a financial position to support a child they can then elect to have the procedure reversed, after interviews, counselling and internal examinations of course.

This would have a huge impact on the number of abortions needed, in all probability it would reduce them to almost zero.


As for assault rifles and semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Anyone who starts spouting about the 2nd amendment is a useful idiot to the near-30 billion dollar gun industry in the US.

[notfatcat]

Pointing out that there are far greater restrictions on getting an abortion than on purchasing a military-style assault rifle is neither emotive nor stupid. But I sense that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

It's both emotive and stupid. Purchasing an assault rifle doesn't necessarily end in a death. In fact it rarely ends in a death. Having an abortion always results in a death. 60 million of them since it was legalised. It's a dumb comparison regardless of how one feels about abortion, unless I suppose one views abortion in the same way one views elective surgery.

I don't know for a fact but I presume most abortions would be more elective procedure than elective surgery. Either way the more critical distinction is the women having abortions are indeed electing to have them, whereas the people being shot dead are not electing to be shot dead.

No, the critical distinction is that every abortion results in a death whereas every gun purchase does not. Or alternatively, the people being shot dead are not electing to be shot dead and the unborn babies are not electing to be aborted.

[Raggs]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

[Tichtheid]

You can freeze an embryo but you can’t freeze a baby. That’s because an embryo isn’t an unborn child.

The earliest a pregnancy is viable is around 22 weeks or five months

[notfatcat]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

[Hugo]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

[Tichtheid]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

The American Taliban

[Raggs]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

At least the first 12 weeks. On top of that the potential for abortion in the event of difficulties was on the table. We wanted a baby human, but that doesn't mean it was a human for the entire time from conception.

[notfatcat]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

[Tichtheid]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

It’s not each to their own, up to the point of viability a pregnancy goes from a single cell at conception to being able to survive outside the womb, an ever-increasing collection of cells

The collection of cells has the potential to become a human, that is not the same as being human.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

[notfatcat]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Each to their own as in he can think what he likes. He can think we should castrate all boys who grow up on a council estate... doesn't mean there's any justification for doing so.

[Fonz]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

[robmatic]

Death yes, death of a human being? Not in my mind.

At what point in your wife's pregnancy did you view your unborn child as non-human?

At least the first 12 weeks. On top of that the potential for abortion in the event of difficulties was on the table. We wanted a baby human, but that doesn't mean it was a human for the entire time from conception.

There's good reason why you don't even tell anybody you're pregnant until 3 months has passed.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well it's none of my business why abortion was on the table so I don't want this to become too personal but I find not seeing it as human as bizarre. Each to their own I guess.

Each to their own is rather the point, it's about having the freedom of choice whatever the background reasons.

Each to their own as in he can think what he likes. He can think we should castrate all boys who grow up on a council estate... doesn't mean there's any justification for doing so.

As with the shooting performing genital mutilation on others is doing things to other people without their consent. Abortion is being done, hopefully and common sense says mostly with the woman's consent.

There might be something in castrating anyone who wants and gets a gun, at least the men, as a drop in testosterone might be useful

[Tichtheid]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

You edited out assault rifles from my post, can I assume you don’t think it’s a rational choice for civilians to own military style weapons?

The US has become awash with guns, but looking at data from other comparable countries where it’s really difficult/impossible to get these weapons, we don’t see anything like the gun violence the US sees, and it does so on a daily basis.

If I remember correctly the data doesn’t show that owning a gun prevents violence

[Zapp Bannigan]

Ok, enough is enough, I'm stepping in here to say keep the abortion feelings, be they pro or anti, be kept away from this thread. This thread is about the dismay and disgust of mass shootings occuring in the USA. I'll start another thread for the discussion about abortion. Anyone posting in here again about abortion will be given a timeout.

Zapp.

[Hugo]

Indeed, I could be misremembering but I think there is data that says that if you own a gun you are actually more likely to die by gunfire than if you did not.

I think the stats are skewed because of suicides but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

[sockwithaticket]

Indeed, I could be misremembering but I think there is data that says that if you own a gun you are actually more likely to die by gunfire than if you did not.

I think the stats are skewed because of suicides but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

I've definitely seen similar. Even allowing for the skew of taking your own life with one, it's clearly not an obvious case of have a gun and no one will be able to fuck with you.

[Kiwias]

Ok, enough is enough, I'm stepping in here to say keep the abortion feelings, be they pro or anti, be kept away from this thread. This thread is about the dismay and disgust of mass shootings occuring in the USA. I'll start another thread for the discussion about abortion. Anyone posting in here again about abortion will be given a timeout.

Zapp.

[FalseBayFC]

FT0XBAlVUAAeQqt.jpeg

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

I just looked this up and even Ronald Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and he wrote to the house of reps endorsing the legislation in 1994!

This is to Marylanders point a few pages back that the nutters have well and truly taken over that party.

Yeah it fucking madness! In South Africa I can buy and own a semi-auto AR-15 with suppressor and no limits to size of magazine. And I can concealed carry a sidearm. Their are significant training and bureaucratic hoops to jump through though. And it takes a fair bit of time. The license category is for dedicated sports shooter and hunters. Gun controls are very strict. Despite our high crime rate I don't think we've ever had a spree shooting or mass shooting incident.

[Fonz]

As for semi-automatic hand guns, the desire to have one should disqualify the person from having one, no sane person outside of the military needs these.

Ok, hold on here. I don't own a gun, but that is absolutely not true. There are plenty of places in the US where carrying a concealed firearm for personal protection is an entirely rational choice.

I used to deliver pizza in the hood about a decade ago. Around that time, two separate pizza guys delivering right outside our area (just a few miles away) were both murdered in separate incidents, for a couple bucks and presumably a few pies. A couple of the other drivers started carrying after that, which I thought was completely understandable, especially for white guys (who are invariably seen as easy marks).

Obviously there are many more contexts where it makes sense, but this is just an example.

You edited out assault rifles from my post, can I assume you don’t think it’s a rational choice for civilians to own military style weapons?

The US has become awash with guns, but looking at data from other comparable countries where it’s really difficult/impossible to get these weapons, we don’t see anything like the gun violence the US sees, and it does so on a daily basis.

If I remember correctly the data doesn’t show that owning a gun prevents violence

Of course, that's why I took it out, it's not even worth discussing.