Ireland in NZ

[Kiwias]

Akira sums up our night -- no accuracy in the basic skills

To be fair on that one, he’s plain knackered.

Sam Whitelock was not dropping the ball and he did way more work in the tight than Akira

[ASMO]

People making excuses for New Zealand should note. They were beaten by a much better team, period. This wasnt a fluke or an anomoly, Ireland a better team, simples.

[OomStruisbaai]

We are...yes....very sad.

Now you all look fucking stupid.

Thanks for showing everyone what stupid looks like.

Just one win over the Boks and everything is fine again.

[Biffer]

Well done Ireland, fantastic series and amazing achievement.

This will of course make it even funnier when they’re knocked out in the QF again next year.

[tabascoboy]

Congrats to Ireland, well deserved and great achievement.

[JM2K6]

Laws make no sense. Beirne just nutted the 9 at full pelt on that counter ruck

Nah, he counter rucked Coles who then hit the 9s head.

The law that doesn't make sense is the insane "dominant tackle" reference with these headshots.

Anyway - Ireland were magnificent. The best organised attack in world rugby (you'd say the French are better off the cuff, but that's it) allied to excellent balance in the team, huge amounts of experience, and quality in all major positions. Once they sorted out their set piece issues from the first Test, there wasn't a single area that they weren't superior in.

The kiwis got smashed again at the breakdown - barely capable of winning a turnover, utterly incapable of replicating Ireland's physicality in the clean outs. They play like keeping it tight is a betrayal of everything they stand for, but they are deeply substandard at playing wide compared to previous NZ sides. They play like a collection of individuals, and it's largely individuals who are a pale imitation of their former selves or (with a couple of exceptions) just never going to be near the class of the world cup winning players.

Futzy talked about it not being a good look taking the captain off after 65. Well, it's not a good look having a captain who is repeatedly second best at his primary role, who doesn't seem to show much on field nous or leadership. And his USP of big smash tackles barely makes a difference - there's handfuls of international back rowers doing that with more frequency, more effectiveness, and with more strings to their bows elsewhere in carrying and breakdown ability.

The Kiwis need major surgery. Foster is a disaster, obviously, but even he can't make a world class backline out of the players he has available. Imo they should risk losses in the RC by starting Fakatawa, giving Mounga the shirt back, Jordan to 15, and find centres who are actually centres playing centre and wings who are wings...

The pack is trickier. I don't know how much can be fixed by a change in approach and better coaching; I'd quite like to see how they'd go if they were given more responsibility to make ground up the guts and given better coaching at the breakdown. I still hate having Cane at 7 and Savea at 8. Ioane brings enough at 6 but for gods sake pick an 8 who can do all the things an 8 needs to do and a 7 who does all the things a modern 7 needs to do.

NZ just look like an ordinary international side right now and that's so fucking strange.

But Ireland were absolutely magnificent from the start. Their challenge is probably to keep this level going for the next 18 months, and to look at how they can bring their back 3 into things a bit more, plus handling all the Sexton injuries. They're at an incredible level already though.

[Ymx]

JM actually seems to be talking sense …

Though pretty sure we do have the back line stocks.

Loosies to play in their natural role

How about
6. A Ioane
7. Savea
8. Grace

9. Fakatawa
10. Mo Unga
11. R Ioane
12. Goodhue
13. ALB
14. Reece
15. Jordan

[Sards]

Ireland wanted it more

[Sards]

Congratulations Ireland

[Tichtheid]

JM actually seems to be talking sense …

Though pretty sure we do have the back line stocks.

Loosies to play in their natural role

How about
6. Ioane
7. Savea
8. Grace

9. Fakatawa
10. Mo Unga
11. A Ioane
12. Goodhue
13. ALB
14. Reece
15. Jordan

Is Goodhue injured or just not being picked?

I haven’t seen any Kiwi rugby for a while but last time I looked Goodhue was class

[Gumboot]

JM2K6

Agree with all of that. Radical changes are needed, but unless Foster's ejected we're doomed.

[Torquemada 1420]

Laws make no sense. Beirne just nutted the 9 at full pelt on that counter ruck

Nah, he counter rucked Coles who then hit the 9s head.

The law that doesn't make sense is the insane "dominant tackle" reference with these headshots.

Anyway - Ireland were magnificent. The best organised attack in world rugby (you'd say the French are better off the cuff, but that's it) allied to excellent balance in the team, huge amounts of experience, and quality in all major positions. Once they sorted out their set piece issues from the first Test, there wasn't a single area that they weren't superior in.

The kiwis got smashed again at the breakdown - barely capable of winning a turnover, utterly incapable of replicating Ireland's physicality in the clean outs. They play like keeping it tight is a betrayal of everything they stand for, but they are deeply substandard at playing wide compared to previous NZ sides. They play like a collection of individuals, and it's largely individuals who are a pale imitation of their former selves or (with a couple of exceptions) just never going to be near the class of the world cup winning players.

Futzy talked about it not being a good look taking the captain off after 65. Well, it's not a good look having a captain who is repeatedly second best at his primary role, who doesn't seem to show much on field nous or leadership. And his USP of big smash tackles barely makes a difference - there's handfuls of international back rowers doing that with more frequency, more effectiveness, and with more strings to their bows elsewhere in carrying and breakdown ability.

The Kiwis need major surgery. Foster is a disaster, obviously, but even he can't make a world class backline out of the players he has available. Imo they should risk losses in the RC by starting Fakatawa, giving Mounga the shirt back, Jordan to 15, and find centres who are actually centres playing centre and wings who are wings...

The pack is trickier. I don't know how much can be fixed by a change in approach and better coaching; I'd quite like to see how they'd go if they were given more responsibility to make ground up the guts and given better coaching at the breakdown. I still hate having Cane at 7 and Savea at 8. Ioane brings enough at 6 but for gods sake pick an 8 who can do all the things an 8 needs to do and a 7 who does all the things a modern 7 needs to do.

NZ just look like an ordinary international side right now and that's so fucking strange.

But Ireland were absolutely magnificent from the start. Their challenge is probably to keep this level going for the next 18 months, and to look at how they can bring their back 3 into things a bit more, plus handling all the Sexton injuries. They're at an incredible level already though.

Most of that ^^^

- I would say Fra's backs are more threatening individually in attack but Fra's attack (outside counters) remains blunted by slow ruck ball and problems at FH. Fortunately, in Dupont, Villiere, Danty and Fickou, they have excellent defenders who are all also, quasi backrowers. Yes, Ire's attack is way better organised but if you can slow their service, it has struggled to rack up the points.
- Yup. Been saying Smith is some way past his best and the most obviously dim thing Foster is doing is to select BB ahead of Mounga. I'm on the fence on the Jordan v Jordie debate. Clearly Jordan is a much better attacking threat and there's bugger all between them under a high ball. But Jordie is their kicker, so, like Fra with Jaminet, has to start unless there is a change at FH. Also, Jordan is going to see too little ball if NZ can't secure their own rucks and so his threat is diminished.
- Fwds. Whitelock and Retallick are masters but just maybe beginning to have waning powers with age? The front row scares nobody and Taylor's throwing has gone all French this season. But it's the backrow that is their real killer. Not sure if your solution helps: other than Papalii, I'm struggling to think of anyone in NZ who you'd consider a top intl fetcher, slower or cleanout merchant.

[Torquemada 1420]

Is Goodhue injured or just not being picked?

I haven’t seen any Kiwi rugby for a while but last time I looked Goodhue was class

Slightly better than journeyman at intl level. Organised and smart player but not enough of anything else. Reminds me of a lightweight Tony Marsh.

[redderneck]

I believe I might have a small beer now. That was an absorbing game; absorbing tour, after the ropiest of starts. If NZ could add our org to their game/if we could add theur pace/natural countering ability.

We will both need that IMHO to have realstic chances of taking the likes of a FR or RSA playing well.

Easier to magic up organisation than it is raw pace, when both are lacking.

I am bloody loving this recent rivalry. Respect.

[yermum]

POM is really having a swansong to his career.

Great to see. He really seems to have cut out the stupid stuff and focused on what he does best.

[redderneck]

POM is really having a swansong to his career.

Great to see. He really seems to have cut out the stupid stuff and focused on what he does best.

Am confused. The stupid stuff is part of what he does best.

[Guy Smiley]

Congrats to the Irish fans here, must feel brilliant and you deserve to soak it up…

As for the rest of it… I have been trying to say for a while now but… meh. Whatever.

[Slick]

POM is really having a swansong to his career.

Great to see. He really seems to have cut out the stupid stuff and focused on what he does best.

Am confused. The stupid stuff is part of what he does best.

I must be one of the very few Scots that loves POM, a real warrior and still going strong

[yermum]

POM is shite. Let's not get ahead of ourselves

Mmmmm that crow must be tasting pretty fucking good.

without POM there is no wins against the ABs and you know it.

the sledge of Cane last week won the series.

[PCPhil]

POM was controlled and excellent.

[convoluted]

... I'm on the fence on the Jordan v Jordie debate. Clearly Jordan is a much better attacking threat and there's bugger all between them under a high ball. But Jordie is their kicker ...

I'd kind of hoped that The Fozz would go back on his stated disdain for Jordie at 2nd 5 and pick him there for this one.

P.S. Torquemada, just love your various analyses.

[convoluted]

Just musing that that Irish team was so good that maybe Robertson dodged a bullet by not being in charge of the ABs.

We will all be closely watching every Irish game through to the World Cup, esp. the 6N game against France which I think will be in Dublin.

[Guy Smiley]

Ireland certainly deserve to be at the top of the rankings as they’re clearly a good team who play with a solid structure… but they had some wobbly aspects to their game and this AB team weren’t good enough to capitalise.

Aside from that 15 minute passage in the first test when the ABs got lucky with the ball and the Irish froze in the headlights, the frailties of the AB game were exposed yet again and you have to wonder what it will take for the realisation to dawn… getting blasted off the ball at the breakdown isn’t going to let whatever chaos the backline has been encouraged to indulge happen.

Ireland are good, yes.

This AB team is bad.

Terrible.

Chaotic, rudderless, clueless.

[convoluted]

Akira sums up our night -- no accuracy in the basic skills

To be fair on that one, he’s plain knackered.

Sam Whitelock was not dropping the ball and he did way more work in the tight than Akira

Can't be definite without a replay, but after we'd clawed back to 25-22 wasn't it a spill by Whitelock (a difficult catch) which led to an Irish scrum which positioned them to go 32-22?
Whereas Ioane's drop was last minute, in our own 25, game already well lost, total congestion, harum scarum hot potato AB passing, and nothing would have eventuated even if he'd held on.

I saw Kirky's legendary try against '71 Lions live (as you would have too Kiwias) and I reckon Akira's tonight was just as good.

[Grandpa]

To be fair on that one, he’s plain knackered.

Sam Whitelock was not dropping the ball and he did way more work in the tight than Akira

Can't be definite without a replay, but after we'd clawed back to 25-22 wasn't it a spill by Whitelock (a difficult catch) which led to an Irish scrum which positioned them to go 32-22?
Whereas Ioane's drop was last minute, in our own 25, game already well lost, total congestion, harum scarum hot potato AB passing, and nothing would have eventuated even if he'd held on.

I saw Kirky's try against '71 Lions live (as you would have Kiwias) and I reckon Akira's tonight was just as good.

Correct. I actually thought it was Akira's best game for NZ. And the team was still thumped...

[Enzedder]

Last night was the first time I have turned my back on the ABs. Turned off the telly before the anthems and played Civ instead.

From what I am seeing on here and FB, I made the right call.

Until HE is gone, I am gone.

[Grandpa]

Last night was the first time I have turned my back on the ABs. Turned off the telly before the anthems and played Civ instead.

From what I am seeing on here and FB, I made the right call.

Until HE is gone, I am gone.

And you gave him the benefit of the doubt for quite a long time... what straw broke the camel's back?

[fishfoodie]

Does anyone know where we can get our hand's on ~25 of the cryonic freezer units ?

... we appear to have a squad we need to put in deep freeze for awhile

[Gumboot]

the sledge of Cane last week won the series.

Really? Coulda sworn it was because Ireland are a vastly superior side and the All Blacks are a rabble coached by a moron.

[fishfoodie]

the sledge of Cane last week won the series.

Really? Coulda sworn it was because Ireland are a vastly superior side and the All Blacks are a rabble coached by a moron.

Ah hear; I'm all for a bit of hyperbole, but these guys didn't just turn into a bunch of duffers !

You at least have some games, right away, to get some structure back into place, & we all know you've got players; it's just that the management acknowledging the work that needs to be done, & not keep making excuses.

Even between last week & this, the ABs cleaned up their penalty count. They still look awfully uncoordinated when they're trying to unpick a defense, but, if we're frank, SA are about as subtle as a kick in the bollocks, so they could be the ideal first opponents to start rebuilding the players confidence.

[Gumboot]

It's not an unexpected nosedive in form, though. They've stumbled through the last couple of years with largely average performances and wildly inconsistent selections and have now settled into a discernable pattern of failure. They're led by a coach who doesn't want to face media scrutiny of his own dire performance, and senior players who seem to be at a total loss for answers. It is a rabble.

[OomStruisbaai]

the sledge of Cane last week won the series.

Really? Coulda sworn it was because Ireland are a vastly superior side and the All Blacks are a rabble coached by a moron.

Ah hear; I'm all for a bit of hyperbole, but these guys didn't just turn into a bunch of duffers !

You at least have some games, right away, to get some structure back into place, & we all know you've got players; it's just that the management acknowledging the work that needs to be done, & not keep making excuses.

Even between last week & this, the ABs cleaned up their penalty count. They still look awfully uncoordinated when they're trying to unpick a defense, but, if we're frank, SA are about as subtle as a kick in the bollocks, so they could be the ideal first opponents to start rebuilding the players confidence.

Springbok vs All Blacks always bring the best out of both.

[convoluted]

Just getting back to Akira, both the NZ Herald and Stuff ratings accorded him second-top AB performer only just behind Ardie.
I really don't get the Akira Derangement Syndrome on this forum.

[Camroc2]

In fairness, NZ look a poorly coached side. What was with all the kicking in the first half. It seemed that every time you had possession you just kicked the ball to us. A couple of the bombs were good, the one Hansen caught under the posts. and the other one the AB knocked on, but NZ aren't SA ffs, at least I hope not. One team playing "anti-rugby" is more than enough.

[Torquemada 1420]

... I'm on the fence on the Jordan v Jordie debate. Clearly Jordan is a much better attacking threat and there's bugger all between them under a high ball. But Jordie is their kicker ...

I'd kind of hoped that The Fozz would go back on his stated disdain for Jordie at 2nd 5 and pick him there for this one.

P.S. Torquemada, just love your various analyses.

Hah. You might be in a minority

Jordie at 12 actually makes some sense if you are trying to use Jordan most effectively. He'd offer a true, 2nd/5 kicking option from there (I'm a fan of this Mauger type role) and Jordie makes his tackles so would not be a turnstile there. In the end though, it's all pretty moot if your fwds can't secure you enough decent ball.

[FalseBayFC]

Bundee and the WarGod somewhere in Wellington in the wee hours.

[Guy Smiley]

... I'm on the fence on the Jordan v Jordie debate. Clearly Jordan is a much better attacking threat and there's bugger all between them under a high ball. But Jordie is their kicker ...

I'd kind of hoped that The Fozz would go back on his stated disdain for Jordie at 2nd 5 and pick him there for this one.

P.S. Torquemada, just love your various analyses.

Hah. You might be in a minority

Jordie at 12 actually makes some sense if you are trying to use Jordan most effectively. He'd offer a true, 2nd/5 kicking option from there (I'm a fan of this Mauger type role) and Jordie makes his tackles so would not be a turnstile there. In the end though, it's all pretty moot if your fwds can't secure you enough decent ball.

I don't automatically agree with you analysis Torq, but you and JMK bring a decent perspective gleaned from watching more games than I can so I find both of your opinions stimulate some thought.

I'll freely admit that I'm no fan of either Barrett brother in the backline. We probably agree in the main about BB and his poor tactical play. I think he's an average distributor at best. I think room ha been continually made to justify Jordie's presence in the team and giving him the kicking duties over a poorly performing BB is a symptom.

I would have Jordan over Jordie in a heartbeat. No question at all. Just do it now FFS.

Then you have to look at your balance through the rest of the backline.

I'd thank Aaron Smith and pat his arse goodbye... Brad Weber and Fakatava can look after HB duties

Mo'unga starting every game while fit
A better option at 12 than Jordie would be Havili because he really does bring that second tactical kicking option and his partnership with Mo'unga works. I'd also like to see more of Tupaea starting at 12 for his power and threat to the line, a la Nonu and SBW. I see QT as a long term holder of that 12 spot and want to see him getting consistent game time. With Jordan at 15, you've got that second first receiver available and he has an enormous boot.


Then we'd need to look at whatever tactical misdirection has been drummed into these guys and stop the aimless kicking. I know teams are trying to gain good position and force the opposition back... but our halfbacks are box kicking as a reflex first option when it's often a shithouse choice and no-one chases it making it pointless anyway. Just lazy, terrible play. Aaron Smith's first action in recent games has been a box kick. The opposition just sit back and wait to be gifted possession.

there's an argument about 13 to be had. Some like Rieko there. I want Goodhue running it because I think he organises the backline well and Rieko is probably one of the best wingers in the game... with these other players inside offering good distribution he'd clean up out there.

I'd want to get Perofeta into the set up as quickly as possible so he'd take that bench spot that would otherwise have gone to BB, and Fainga'anuku could take the other bench spot. I suppose Sevu Reece is the other winger for now and that's a decent backline but the tactics have to change to use it.

The pack needs some drastic changes as well. I think Cane has done his dash. I'd put Ardie in at 7 and captain, Cullen Grace has to have earned a run at 8 and offer Akira the 6 jersey if he can stay involved in the rucks and not stand outside looking for the ball to come to him. Sotutu has to be in the frame there as well. I want a backrow that wants to get dirty and scary. People will saw Scott Barrett is a cert for 6... he's played 3 games there. We need him at lock now anyway but I worry about him being able to stay out of trouble with the ref... along with a few of our other players who simply have to learn to adjust their tackling technique. We need to get our younger locks starting because relying on Retallick and Whitelock to shoulder the load leaves us vulnerable to injury. Whitelock's excellent games are becoming less frequent. The front row needs an overhaul as well.

We've got to get smarter with the refs and combine that with playing a faster, more powerful game on the floor. Numbers at the breakdown is a must and piss off with this stupid 'playing the footy' mantra. We can do that once we've earned it.

[Torquemada 1420]

I don't automatically agree with you analysis Torq, but you and JMK bring a decent perspective gleaned from watching more games than I can so I find both of your opinions stimulate some thought.

I'll freely admit that I'm no fan of either Barrett brother in the backline. We probably agree in the main about BB and his poor tactical play. I think he's an average distributor at best. I think room ha been continually made to justify Jordie's presence in the team and giving him the kicking duties over a poorly performing BB is a symptom.

I would have Jordan over Jordie in a heartbeat. No question at all. Just do it now FFS.

Then you have to look at your balance through the rest of the backline.

I'd thank Aaron Smith and pat his arse goodbye... Brad Weber and Fakatava can look after HB duties

Mo'unga starting every game while fit
A better option at 12 than Jordie would be Havili because he really does bring that second tactical kicking option and his partnership with Mo'unga works. I'd also like to see more of Tupaea starting at 12 for his power and threat to the line, a la Nonu and SBW. I see QT as a long term holder of that 12 spot and want to see him getting consistent game time. With Jordan at 15, you've got that second first receiver available and he has an enormous boot.


Then we'd need to look at whatever tactical misdirection has been drummed into these guys and stop the aimless kicking. I know teams are trying to gain good position and force the opposition back... but our halfbacks are box kicking as a reflex first option when it's often a shithouse choice and no-one chases it making it pointless anyway. Just lazy, terrible play. Aaron Smith's first action in recent games has been a box kick. The opposition just sit back and wait to be gifted possession.

there's an argument about 13 to be had. Some like Rieko there. I want Goodhue running it because I think he organises the backline well and Rieko is probably one of the best wingers in the game... with these other players inside offering good distribution he'd clean up out there.

I'd want to get Perofeta into the set up as quickly as possible so he'd take that bench spot that would otherwise have gone to BB, and Fainga'anuku could take the other bench spot. I suppose Sevu Reece is the other winger for now and that's a decent backline but the tactics have to change to use it.

The pack needs some drastic changes as well. I think Cane has done his dash. I'd put Ardie in at 7 and captain, Cullen Grace has to have earned a run at 8 and offer Akira the 6 jersey if he can stay involved in the rucks and not stand outside looking for the ball to come to him. Sotutu has to be in the frame there as well. I want a backrow that wants to get dirty and scary. People will saw Scott Barrett is a cert for 6... he's played 3 games there. We need him at lock now anyway but I worry about him being able to stay out of trouble with the ref... along with a few of our other players who simply have to learn to adjust their tackling technique. We need to get our younger locks starting because relying on Retallick and Whitelock to shoulder the load leaves us vulnerable to injury. Whitelock's excellent games are becoming less frequent. The front row needs an overhaul as well.

We've got to get smarter with the refs and combine that with playing a faster, more powerful game on the floor. Numbers at the breakdown is a must and piss off with this stupid 'playing the footy' mantra. We can do that once we've earned it.

The nice thing about this board when it's rugby chat is opinions are usually voiced with a rationale and, equally, taken in that manner i.e. very little baiting (outside of humour) and consequently, personal few sh*tfights. JMK and I would kill each other on some issues (e.g. racism) but I always reads his rugby posts.

Some repetition here, but I agree with most of what you say
- Mounga not ahead of BB is just batsh*t crazy
- How anyone thinks Christie > Fakatava bemuses me but Foster is not alone amongst intl coaches for nonsensical SH picks that mystify everyone else.
- Perfofeta is an odd one. A few years back in ITM, I'd written him off. Still don't think he's a FH but he's had an o/s season at FB and you are right, he provides a utility choice on the bench.
- I'm not convinced Akira is ever going to roll his sleeves up long term. He hasn't done so until now so what's going to change? He's a liability in a game where the breakdown decides so much.
- Your kicking was always so smart and, as you say, now its mostly as dim and premeditated as most other sides.
- Talking of smart, I still think this is the one thing I see as having changed in the last decade. I still think NZ has proportionately more players with better rugby brains and decision making abilities...... but that has become markedly less so in that period. Some of the discipline stuff being an example.

[convoluted]

... Torq ... you and JMK bring a decent perspective ... I find both of your opinions stimulate some thought ...

Yes, JMK26 too has put up some thoughtful stuff on the July test threads.
I originally got into reading PR simply for AC's take on things, which I accorded as much credibility to as I did NZ Herald reports.

[lemonhead]

I'd kind of hoped that The Fozz would go back on his stated disdain for Jordie at 2nd 5 and pick him there for this one.

P.S. Torquemada, just love your various analyses.

Hah. You might be in a minority

Jordie at 12 actually makes some sense if you are trying to use Jordan most effectively. He'd offer a true, 2nd/5 kicking option from there (I'm a fan of this Mauger type role) and Jordie makes his tackles so would not be a turnstile there. In the end though, it's all pretty moot if your fwds can't secure you enough decent ball.

I don't automatically agree with you analysis Torq, but you and JMK bring a decent perspective gleaned from watching more games than I can so I find both of your opinions stimulate some thought.

I'll freely admit that I'm no fan of either Barrett brother in the backline. We probably agree in the main about BB and his poor tactical play. I think he's an average distributor at best. I think room ha been continually made to justify Jordie's presence in the team and giving him the kicking duties over a poorly performing BB is a symptom.

I would have Jordan over Jordie in a heartbeat. No question at all. Just do it now FFS.

Then you have to look at your balance through the rest of the backline.

I'd thank Aaron Smith and pat his arse goodbye... Brad Weber and Fakatava can look after HB duties

Mo'unga starting every game while fit
A better option at 12 than Jordie would be Havili because he really does bring that second tactical kicking option and his partnership with Mo'unga works. I'd also like to see more of Tupaea starting at 12 for his power and threat to the line, a la Nonu and SBW. I see QT as a long term holder of that 12 spot and want to see him getting consistent game time. With Jordan at 15, you've got that second first receiver available and he has an enormous boot.


Then we'd need to look at whatever tactical misdirection has been drummed into these guys and stop the aimless kicking. I know teams are trying to gain good position and force the opposition back... but our halfbacks are box kicking as a reflex first option when it's often a shithouse choice and no-one chases it making it pointless anyway. Just lazy, terrible play. Aaron Smith's first action in recent games has been a box kick. The opposition just sit back and wait to be gifted possession.

there's an argument about 13 to be had. Some like Rieko there. I want Goodhue running it because I think he organises the backline well and Rieko is probably one of the best wingers in the game... with these other players inside offering good distribution he'd clean up out there.

I'd want to get Perofeta into the set up as quickly as possible so he'd take that bench spot that would otherwise have gone to BB, and Fainga'anuku could take the other bench spot. I suppose Sevu Reece is the other winger for now and that's a decent backline but the tactics have to change to use it.

The pack needs some drastic changes as well. I think Cane has done his dash. I'd put Ardie in at 7 and captain, Cullen Grace has to have earned a run at 8 and offer Akira the 6 jersey if he can stay involved in the rucks and not stand outside looking for the ball to come to him. Sotutu has to be in the frame there as well. I want a backrow that wants to get dirty and scary. People will saw Scott Barrett is a cert for 6... he's played 3 games there. We need him at lock now anyway but I worry about him being able to stay out of trouble with the ref... along with a few of our other players who simply have to learn to adjust their tackling technique. We need to get our younger locks starting because relying on Retallick and Whitelock to shoulder the load leaves us vulnerable to injury. Whitelock's excellent games are becoming less frequent. The front row needs an overhaul as well.

We've got to get smarter with the refs and combine that with playing a faster, more powerful game on the floor. Numbers at the breakdown is a must and piss off with this stupid 'playing the footy' mantra. We can do that once we've earned it.

There's a variation of this every time a team is down: a new coach will fix everything, a you just dont have the players argument and the truth lying somewhere in between - but closer to the first option in NZ's case.

Much as we enjoyed the win it's not an All Black team I ever want to see again, muted and reeked of confusion for a lot of that game. Just possible the guys aren't loving camp either and while Foster & Co are saying everything'll be grand, so NZRU are full on optics when clearly they don't have the money or wherewithal to pay them off en masse and get a new ticket in. Presume as well he's plenty of friends there who look pretty stupid if they extended and then dumped him over a year early. SA tour could offer some redemption there or wind up forcing their hand, very interesting series.

Whatever way NZ come back (and they will), need guys picked and persisted with over a run of games. Conrad Smith was on a few days ago saying just how long it took for him and Ma'a to truly gel and in part because they were in effect competing with each other for some of that time. Keep changing everything those combinations find it harder to develop and be consistent.