Fan Tokens - Yay!

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:33 am

Leicester, Quins and Sarries all announce partnerships today with Socios. Very disappointing.

Right up there in the 'this will end in tears' list.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:40 am

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:33 am Leicester, Quins and Sarries all announce partnerships today with Socios. Very disappointing.

Right up there in the 'this will end in tears' list.

Bollocks to that whole concept. Financialised fan engagement

Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:42 am

Can someone explain the basics of what it is?

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:08 am

Ymx wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:42 am Can someone explain the basics of what it is?

Rather than minting actual currency they mint the fan tokens on a blockchain, and then in the first instance make them available as a public offering. What rights they might afford will vary, it could cede X% of total control of a club via voting rights, in reality it's likely to be along the lines of a members clubs experience and you'll get a chance to vote on say 1 out of 3 new kit designs, maybe what new flavoured pie will be added next season to the concessions stands

There are a number of firms providing such a service, and Socios is probably the largest player in the market and also has a fairly simply model to purchase/sell. Whether fan tokens vary much in value remains to be seen, though at the outset I'd assume you'd lose the lot and it's just a way to support your club as they desperately seek new revenue streams post lockdowns to date

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:12 am

Not for the first time in the crypto space I am a little lost at what value a public blockchain is adding to the process of buying membership of a supporter's club.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:12 am

It's a way to take advantage of less financially literate fans. Total grift.

Thread pretty much covers its murky record in football

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:20 am

Mahoney wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:12 am Not for the first time in the crypto space I am a little lost at what value a public blockchain is adding to the process of buying membership of a supporter's club.

Well in theory the tokens will retain some value, but there's nothing underpinning them. So it's along the lines of a legal Ponzi scheme.

You could suppose a fool and their money are easily parted, and even then despite being a fool it's flat out not for me, but maybe a lot of people will like this version of paying into a member's club.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:33 am

In theory your membership can retain some value. No reason you can't have member's tokens and allow people to trade them on the market. Doesn't mean it needs a cryptographically secure public blockchain to store them on.

The whole point of these public blockchains is to have a trustable record of transactions without the need to have an authority maintaining that record, in order to prevent that authority from devaluing the tokens by increasing the supply, or exerting control over what transactions are allowed to happen. I'm pretty sceptical about that (it's amazing how quickly people hand control to a few exchanges, and clamour for a trusted authority to exercise control over transactions when they start getting defrauded...), but I at least get the point that it's meant to 'free' the holder from having their savings inflated away by a central bank increasing the money supply, or from a government freezing their assets.

I just don't see how those can really be a concern with supporter's club membership tokens.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:45 am

It does probably to many of us feel like ignore the value/worth and feel the bling

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:52 am

Mahoney wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:33 am In theory your membership can retain some value. No reason you can't have member's tokens and allow people to trade them on the market. Doesn't mean it needs a cryptographically secure public blockchain to store them on.

The whole point of these public blockchains is to have a trustable record of transactions without the need to have an authority maintaining that record, in order to prevent that authority from devaluing the tokens by increasing the supply, or exerting control over what transactions are allowed to happen. I'm pretty sceptical about that (it's amazing how quickly people hand control to a few exchanges, and clamour for a trusted authority to exercise control over transactions when they start getting defrauded...), but I at least get the point that it's meant to 'free' the holder from having their savings inflated away by a central bank increasing the money supply, or from a government freezing their assets.

I just don't see how those can really be a concern with supporter's club membership tokens.

Solution looking for a problem.

Or jumping on a bandwagon to make a load of cash before people figure it out.

c.f. with the almost surreal case of John Terry hawking some teddy bear NFT thing that - of course - screwed 'investors' over.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19035851 ... yto-crash/
(apols for link to currant bun)

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:59 am

utter bollocks.

lets just burn a shit load of energy to do something that could be done on a database

crypto is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist.

https://www.saracens.com/club/sustainability/

lol

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:59 am

I should amplify my reply to reinforce the use of frequently used but poorly understood technologies - it doesn't matter that blockchain is inappropriate, it's new and shiny and therefore must be a great investment. All very cynical.

I recall West Ham and their infamous Bond Scheme of the 90s- an attempt to fleece fans into buying the right to buy season tickets, under the guise of paying for the east stand and chicken run to be updated to meet post-Taylor report all -seater requirements. Both ignoring that fact that there was external funding for this anyway, and that asking people to stump up £500+ on top of season tickets was taking the mickey. A few were bought, but many just opted not to continue with season tickets. I'd wonder if West Ham could have better badged the Bond Scheme as some sort of tradeable fan ownership, even if ultimately toothless.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:08 am

yermum wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:59 am

crypto is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist.

Crypto and blockchain does present some interesting opportunities. Allowing arms dealers, those who traffic people, those involved in narcotics, and those wanting to invest in dubious schemes as largely seems to be actually happening invest/hide/launder isn't all that useful to society

Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:22 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:08 am
yermum wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:59 am

crypto is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist.

Crypto and blockchain does present some interesting opportunities. Allowing arms dealers, those who traffic people, those involved in narcotics, and those wanting to invest in dubious schemes as largely seems to be actually happening invest/hide/launder isn't all that useful to society

absolutely

if anyone has a couple of hours spare and really wants to get a decent handle on the whole cryto/nft space

this is a great watch

Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:18 pm

So you can’t buy enough to sack a head coach?
Otherwise I’d be talking to Silverlake and doing a crowd funding.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:47 pm

Dreadful stuff. Very annoyed by Quins.

Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:00 pm

JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:47 pm Dreadful stuff. Very annoyed by Quins.

Yep. I'm just hoping the fan backlash is enough for them to force them to row back on it. TBF it does seem to have had a universally negative reaction so far.

If not, I'm sure the other clubs are watching and some/all will jump on board too at some point.