convoluted wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:32 pmJust getting back to Akira, both the NZ Herald and Stuff ratings accorded him second-top AB performer only just behind Ardie.
I really don't get the Akira Derangement Syndrome on this forum.
convoluted wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:44 pmI originally got into reading PR simply for AC's take on things, which I accorded as much credibility to as I did NZ Herald reports.
Well, you can’t go around demanding the outcome of a red card for your team. There’s something really wrong about that mindset.Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:40 am Arrrgh - made the mistake of watching a comparison video between Ta'avao's red card and Porters yellow card. Infuriating.
Such a big decision.
NZ unfortunately suffering from the weird psychosis that overtook English refs at the tail end of the Premiership. All of a sudden they started reading "was the player attempting a dominant tackle" as "did the player lose the contact" and it all went Pete Tong from there. Apologies - it was fucking infuriating to us at the time as well.Thor Sedan wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:40 am Arrrgh - made the mistake of watching a comparison video between Ta'avao's red card and Porters yellow card. Infuriating.
Such a big decision.
They're obviously all irredeemable one-eyed cunts, but Kiwi boredies are pretty good when they lose at recognising when they've lost for a number of reasons including glaring failings of their own team. After that first half they were expecting NZ to get an absolute shellacking.PornDog wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:31 am A lot of Kiwi fans being rather generous in saying that the decision didn't have much bearing on the result, but I wouldn't be that sure at all. It was right in the middle of NZ's purple patch and we had yet to wrestle back the momentum. We certainly got very lucky with just the YC, not to mention they ended up losing Brodie.
Edit: I bloody well hope it was Civ 4 - by far the best of them.
Aura officially passed on.
I feel the same way about it myself in fairness, but if the laws are there they should be applied consistently. And of course they are there for a reason, to try and promote a safer game.Ymx wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:15 pm No one wants to win a game vs 14, it’s no one’s right to demand a v 14 situation, and cry it’s unfair otherwise.
I’d much rather the better team won, who did win.
Plus I’m sure the equivalent discussions are being had over on PR, with equivalent views as over here…
I guess the key measure here is the degree of danger, ref obviously felt it was low enough not to warrant a red, if it was me i would probably give the same decision, but it is still quite subjective so can see why others might feel differently.
PornDog wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:21 pm Yeah that's fucked. Sends the wrong message all together.
I feel the same way about it myself in fairness, but if the laws are there they should be applied consistently. And of course they are there for a reason, to try and promote a safer game.Ymx wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:15 pm No one wants to win a game vs 14, it’s no one’s right to demand a v 14 situation, and cry it’s unfair otherwise.
I’d much rather the better team won, who did win.
Plus I’m sure the equivalent discussions are being had over on PR, with equivalent views as over here…
Broke his cheekbone leading with his head. Brakes on or no brakes onEnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:33 pm Are you all on drugs. The NZ lad is driving forward and Porter has the brakes on and absorbs the clash. Its in the videos and o ly scallies and heroin addicts wouldn't be able to see it
He also doesn't put the brakes on - the other angle shows him stepping off his right to put some power into the tackle.SaintK wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:56 pmBroke his cheekbone leading with his head. Brakes on or no brakes onEnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:33 pm Are you all on drugs. The NZ lad is driving forward and Porter has the brakes on and absorbs the clash. Its in the videos and o ly scallies and heroin addicts wouldn't be able to see it
Sends out totally the wrong message
Nope. It was specifically because they considered it a "soak" tackle and not a "dominant" tackle. Because apparently running upright and then stopping and pushing off one leg to smash someone's face head-to-head is a soak tackle now.ASMO wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:29 pmI guess the key measure here is the degree of danger, ref obviously felt it was low enough not to warrant a red, if it was me i would probably give the same decision, but it is still quite subjective so can see why others might feel differently.
Yep......and then many who agree with this will then shake their heads in sadness when another Carl Hayman or Ryan Jones comes out and reveals that they have early onset dementia possibly due to numerous concussions due to head knocks.JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:13 pm Essentially what they've said is that head-to-head (and headshots) collisions are not red cards no matter the damage as long as the victim wins the contact and the tackler can't drive through the hit.
Ha!Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:46 amconvoluted wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:32 pmJust getting back to Akira, both the NZ Herald and Stuff ratings accorded him second-top AB performer only just behind Ardie.
I really don't get the Akira Derangement Syndrome on this forum.convoluted wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:44 pmI originally got into reading PR simply for AC's take on things, which I accorded as much credibility to as I did NZ Herald reports.
OK...
He also doesn't put the brakes on - the other angle shows him stepping off his right to put some power into the tackle.
Ok either he stopped or he didn't, which one is it?Because apparently running upright and then stopping and pushing off one leg to smash someone's face head-to-head
He wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:49 pmHe also doesn't put the brakes on - the other angle shows him stepping off his right to put some power into the tackle.Ok either he stopped or he didn't, which one is it?Because apparently running upright and then stopping and pushing off one leg to smash someone's face head-to-head
And whilst the laws box is partly in the way I'm not seeing some Herculean leap up off his right foot into the air either.
Suppose we all see what we want in slo mo what takes a millisecond on field but with due respect to Porter, the guy's brain probably isn't fast enough in real time to execute what you've just set out. I see a guy bracing himself to stop in order to meet Retallick in the tackle. Poor technique, no one in Ireland would've been surprised if a red came out - but let's not make shit up.
JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:30 pmHe wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:49 pmHe also doesn't put the brakes on - the other angle shows him stepping off his right to put some power into the tackle.Ok either he stopped or he didn't, which one is it?Because apparently running upright and then stopping and pushing off one leg to smash someone's face head-to-head
And whilst the laws box is partly in the way I'm not seeing some Herculean leap up off his right foot into the air either.
Suppose we all see what we want in slo mo what takes a millisecond on field but with due respect to Porter, the guy's brain probably isn't fast enough in real time to execute what you've just set out. I see a guy bracing himself to stop in order to meet Retallick in the tackle. Poor technique, no one in Ireland would've been surprised if a red came out - but let's not make shit up.
Forgive me if I'm not feeling too charitable towards someone who made no effort to make a safe and legal tackle and caused serious injury as a result. He didn't even try. And he got very fucking lucky that every opportunity is given to depower the laws.
What power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:30 pmHe wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:49 pmHe also doesn't put the brakes on - the other angle shows him stepping off his right to put some power into the tackle.Ok either he stopped or he didn't, which one is it?Because apparently running upright and then stopping and pushing off one leg to smash someone's face head-to-head
And whilst the laws box is partly in the way I'm not seeing some Herculean leap up off his right foot into the air either.
Suppose we all see what we want in slo mo what takes a millisecond on field but with due respect to Porter, the guy's brain probably isn't fast enough in real time to execute what you've just set out. I see a guy bracing himself to stop in order to meet Retallick in the tackle. Poor technique, no one in Ireland would've been surprised if a red came out - but let's not make shit up.
Forgive me if I'm not feeling too charitable towards someone who made no effort to make a safe and legal tackle and caused serious injury as a result. He didn't even try. And he got very fucking lucky that every opportunity is given to depower the laws.
Yes.. Retallick is to blame... how dare he run like that.. just asking for his face to be caved in...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:12 pmWhat power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:30 pmHe wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:49 pm
Ok either he stopped or he didn't, which one is it?
And whilst the laws box is partly in the way I'm not seeing some Herculean leap up off his right foot into the air either.
Suppose we all see what we want in slo mo what takes a millisecond on field but with due respect to Porter, the guy's brain probably isn't fast enough in real time to execute what you've just set out. I see a guy bracing himself to stop in order to meet Retallick in the tackle. Poor technique, no one in Ireland would've been surprised if a red came out - but let's not make shit up.
Forgive me if I'm not feeling too charitable towards someone who made no effort to make a safe and legal tackle and caused serious injury as a result. He didn't even try. And he got very fucking lucky that every opportunity is given to depower the laws.
He doesn't power into anything. Retallick runs into him, the single only reason Barnes didn't show red.
If you say so.Grandpa wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:40 pmYes.. Retallick is to blame... how dare he run like that.. just asking for his face to be caved in...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:12 pmWhat power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:30 pm
He wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.
Forgive me if I'm not feeling too charitable towards someone who made no effort to make a safe and legal tackle and caused serious injury as a result. He didn't even try. And he got very fucking lucky that every opportunity is given to depower the laws.
He doesn't power into anything. Retallick runs into him, the single only reason Barnes didn't show red.
So we have Porter running sideways and then stepping forward to meet Retallick.. head on...
There is a slow motion version of this gif which shows it much better...
You need to see a slo-mo of the top gif... it clearly shows Porter running sideways and then taking a step towards Retallick just before impact... I can't find the slo-mo version at the moment...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:00 pmIf you say so.Grandpa wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:40 pmYes.. Retallick is to blame... how dare he run like that.. just asking for his face to be caved in...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:12 pm
What power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.
He doesn't power into anything. Retallick runs into him, the single only reason Barnes didn't show red.
So we have Porter running sideways and then stepping forward to meet Retallick.. head on...
There is a slow motion version of this gif which shows it much better...
My thoughts on how easy that could've been red with no complaints are posted above. I'm still not seeing a power push off Porter's right foot up into Retallick's jaw.
I see Porter spotting the run, making his way across into the channel, planting his foot to stop and showing piss poor dangerous technique, albeit stationary and trying to wrap. The speed of the non slo mo clip backs up what I thought, the guy didn't have the time or wit to try and injure anyone. But he did.
You can slow this one down on Youtube, it goes to 0.25 normal speed.Grandpa wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:40 pmYes.. Retallick is to blame... how dare he run like that.. just asking for his face to be caved in...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:12 pmWhat power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.JM2K6 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:30 pm
He wasn't tackling while decelerating. He had to stop because of the change in direction and pushed off his right leg to get some power into the tackle. The completely upright tackle that broke a man's face and gave him a brain injury.
Forgive me if I'm not feeling too charitable towards someone who made no effort to make a safe and legal tackle and caused serious injury as a result. He didn't even try. And he got very fucking lucky that every opportunity is given to depower the laws.
He doesn't power into anything. Retallick runs into him, the single only reason Barnes didn't show red.
So we have Porter running sideways and then stepping forward to meet Retallick.. head on...
There is a slow motion version of this gif which shows it much better...
At 0.25 speed I see him brace and step into the impact... actually slightly upwards into the impact.. presumably to try and dislodge the ball... but got it wrong... and dislodged the head instead...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:15 pmYou can slow this one down on Youtube, it goes to 0.25 normal speed.Grandpa wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:40 pmYes.. Retallick is to blame... how dare he run like that.. just asking for his face to be caved in...lemonhead wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:12 pm
What power? He needs to plant his foot to stop moving.
He doesn't power into anything. Retallick runs into him, the single only reason Barnes didn't show red.
So we have Porter running sideways and then stepping forward to meet Retallick.. head on...
There is a slow motion version of this gif which shows it much better...
Furlong's in front of Porter admittedly but you can still see him planting his foot to stop and brace. Stays the same distance from the 10m line and don't see him push forward up and off it into the tackle.
It's so obvious.SaintK wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:25 am FFS!! It's head on head in a tackle. It's dangerous and broke Rettalick's cheekbone.
It should be a red every time. As should andyhead on head contact in an upright tackle
World Rugby need to sort this pronto
Basically the point I'm making is that the same tackle made against a smaller player who is arriving with less momentum sees Porter knock them backwards. Essentially, the fact that a giant bloke burst through the attempted tackle has counted against the ball carrier who got his face smashed in. Which is a mad state of affairs.
Exactly... its madness.. madness!JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:30 amBasically the point I'm making is that the same tackle made against a smaller player who is arriving with less momentum sees Porter knock them backwards. Essentially, the fact that a giant bloke burst through the attempted tackle has counted against the ball carrier who got his face smashed in. Which is a mad state of affairs.
This was called a yellow card for the same reason:Grandpa wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:31 amExactly... its madness.. madness!JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:30 amBasically the point I'm making is that the same tackle made against a smaller player who is arriving with less momentum sees Porter knock them backwards. Essentially, the fact that a giant bloke burst through the attempted tackle has counted against the ball carrier who got his face smashed in. Which is a mad state of affairs.
Ridiculous...JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:35 amThis was called a yellow card for the same reason:Grandpa wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:31 amExactly... its madness.. madness!JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:30 am
Basically the point I'm making is that the same tackle made against a smaller player who is arriving with less momentum sees Porter knock them backwards. Essentially, the fact that a giant bloke burst through the attempted tackle has counted against the ball carrier who got his face smashed in. Which is a mad state of affairs.
(4:46 in the vid if it doesn't embed properly)
A huge headshot that was waved off because Esterhuizen still bounced him.
Not disagreeing the protocol could expand to include this. It absolutely could, and probably will if these incidences keep rumbling on. Which they will.JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:30 amBasically the point I'm making is that the same tackle made against a smaller player who is arriving with less momentum sees Porter knock them backwards. Essentially, the fact that a giant bloke burst through the attempted tackle has counted against the ball carrier who got his face smashed in. Which is a mad state of affairs.
