Stop voting for fucking Tories

[SaintK]

So we are entering the worst recession and cost of living crisis for the past 50 years and:
Lame duck PM has dissapeared on a secret holiday (probably at someone else's expense) missing in action
Brand new Chanceller on holiday abroad at one of his several holiday homes unavailable for interview missing in action
First secretary to the treasury on holiday and unavailable for interview missing in action.

That idiot Kwarteng doing the news round this morning telling us that they were all over it and working incredibly hard and fully understood what was needed. Whilst spending most of his time bigging Truss up and knocking Sunak
Fuck me!!!! You couldn't make this up.
UK 2022 folks

[Hal Jordan]

Levelling up latest.

Saying the quiet part loudly.

[tabascoboy]

So we are entering the worst recession and cost of living crisis for the past 50 years and:
Lame duck PM has dissapeared on a secret holiday (probably at someone else's expense) missing in action
Brand new Chanceller on holiday abroad at one of his several holiday homes unavailable for interview missing in action
First secretary to the treasury on holiday and unavailable for interview missing in action.

That idiot Kwarteng doing the news round this morning telling us that they were all over it and working incredibly hard and fully understood what was needed. Whilst spending most of his time bigging Truss up and knocking Sunak
Fuck me!!!! You couldn't make this up.
UK 2022 folks

"Business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng says support will not be introduced until ministers return to work."

But it doesn't matter as it's all the BoE's fault!

[JM2K6]

Any form of electronic voting is fucking nuts

Yeah. Because in a tech age where most people run their lives on computers or mobile phones, the notion of something that might make democracy more democratic is clearly nuts.

As so often, if you can't work out why electronic voting has such significant flaws compared to traditional methods to be considered 'nuts' (let alone taking a quick look over at the States) there is no helping you.

I do not know a single person with a serious job in tech who doesn't start reaching for something heavy whenever anyone starts talking about electronic voting systems. Jesus Christ. No thank youuuuuuu

[Raggs]

Yeah. Because in a tech age where most people run their lives on computers or mobile phones, the notion of something that might make democracy more democratic is clearly nuts.

As so often, if you can't work out why electronic voting has such significant flaws compared to traditional methods to be considered 'nuts' (let alone taking a quick look over at the States) there is no helping you.

I do not know a single person with a serious job in tech who doesn't start reaching for something heavy whenever anyone starts talking about electronic voting systems. Jesus Christ. No thank youuuuuuu

If I can buy/sell a house using electronic identification I can certainly vote with it.

It may not be accessible to everyone, but it can still have a place.

[JM2K6]

As so often, if you can't work out why electronic voting has such significant flaws compared to traditional methods to be considered 'nuts' (let alone taking a quick look over at the States) there is no helping you.

I do not know a single person with a serious job in tech who doesn't start reaching for something heavy whenever anyone starts talking about electronic voting systems. Jesus Christ. No thank youuuuuuu

If I can buy/sell a house using electronic identification I can certainly vote with it.

It may not be accessible to everyone, but it can still have a place.

Seriously, almost all modern tech at scale is an absolute fucking disaster security wise, held together by masking tape, with countless problems under the hood that no-one sees because companies are really good at hiding stuff. There are no secure digital voting options that exist currently that don't add more problems than they solve.

edit: Found this excellent (US-centric) article when searching for a relevant XKCD cartoon:

[PCPhil]

After trying to teach 2 sets of grandparents how to use a mouse I have serious reservations about the typical tory party member and electronic voting.

[Raggs]

After trying to teach 2 sets of grandparents how to use a mouse I have serious reservations about the typical tory party member and electronic voting.

Sounds ideal...

[Biffer]

The UK is far less conservative in both the cultural and corporate spheres than Japan.

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

[Calculon]

The UK is far less conservative in both the cultural and corporate spheres than Japan.

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

What would be the reasons for this?

[GogLais]

The UK is far less conservative in both the cultural and corporate spheres than Japan.

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

What would be the reasons for this?

Doesn’t answer your question but easier to make money by other means.

[Biffer]

The UK is far less conservative in both the cultural and corporate spheres than Japan.

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

What would be the reasons for this?

Many. We make it more attractive to make short term profit and sell up rather than invest for the long term. The general bias against manufacturing in government policy makes it unattractive. Lack of funding for high tech research / development. Under investment in multinational infrastructures like ESA. Lack of support / underwriting of industry playing significant parts in multinational projects. Finance looking for quick returns not long term (5/10/15 years).

Sometimes it’s almost as if the system has been designed to deliberately prevent it.

[fishfoodie]

Fixed

https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/5k-4 ... FHJKEE.jpg

[tabascoboy]

That image doesn't seem to hotlink for me, it's a cartoon at https://www.irishtimes.com a little way down in the 'Opinion' section

[Calculon]

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

What would be the reasons for this?

Many. We make it more attractive to make short term profit and sell up rather than invest for the long term. The general bias against manufacturing in government policy makes it unattractive. Lack of funding for high tech research / development. Under investment in multinational infrastructures like ESA. Lack of support / underwriting of industry playing significant parts in multinational projects. Finance looking for quick returns not long term (5/10/15 years).

Sometimes it’s almost as if the system has been designed to deliberately prevent it.

thanks for the answer

[fishfoodie]

Innovation on the other hand, we suck at. We're OK at it in financial services, but other than that we're waaaay behind similar economies. We are terrible at industrial and translational R&D, which is disgraceful given the UK is the number 2 globally in fundental reaerearch by a distance.

What would be the reasons for this?

Many. We make it more attractive to make short term profit and sell up rather than invest for the long term. The general bias against manufacturing in government policy makes it unattractive. Lack of funding for high tech research / development. Under investment in multinational infrastructures like ESA. Lack of support / underwriting of industry playing significant parts in multinational projects. Finance looking for quick returns not long term (5/10/15 years).

Sometimes it’s almost as if the system has been designed to deliberately prevent it.

The kerfuffle over the Newport Fab at the moment is a classic case of Tory apathy, to maintaining skills, & tech, that are crucial, but not especially glamorous.

While it isn't a particularly cutting edge facility, its tough to put a price on the decades of knowledge, & the development resource that the Fab is; & once it's gone, the UK is significantly worse off, because it will take decades to get a new Fab up to the same level, & will cost far more than the cost of keeping the existing facility in UK hands.

Scotland used to have fabs, & as investment waned, a lot of the engineers made their way to Ireland, & now there's how many fabs in Silicon Glen ?

[tabascoboy]

[Paddington Bear]

As so often, if you can't work out why electronic voting has such significant flaws compared to traditional methods to be considered 'nuts' (let alone taking a quick look over at the States) there is no helping you.

I do not know a single person with a serious job in tech who doesn't start reaching for something heavy whenever anyone starts talking about electronic voting systems. Jesus Christ. No thank youuuuuuu

If I can buy/sell a house using electronic identification I can certainly vote with it.

It may not be accessible to everyone, but it can still have a place.

But again, the Russian state doesn't have too much interest in my house in suburbia, they do in the outcome of an election. Even with this I know conveyancers are shit scared of scammers in this sort of area and are having to beef security up all the time. All this is before we see a system crash on the day/shady corporate motives/a rogue techy at the firm who wants x party to win etc.

The cartoon JMK posted sums it up pretty well.

[Uncle fester]

Bit of a blanket statement to say there’s been no movement. There were twenty consecutive polls in favour of independence in 20-21. That’s shifted back a bit,which is bound to happen in times of uncertainty, but the most recent poll was again in favour.

In the three years before the referendum there were only three polls in favour.

Well, OK, but there hasn't been the real shift that most were expecting, including myself, and it's unlikely that there is going to be larger opportunities for it to do so than Brexit or Boris.

I think it is a bit of entrenched views but also that the SNP offer no credible alternatives. It must be time for reflection for all independence supporters if two massive bombs don't change the dial, years of grievance and fairy tale notions of an amazing future with no credible policy to back it up hasn't pushed the right buttons. As I've said a few times, it needs a grown up debate with a realistic view of the probable outcomes and how tough it will be for a couple of decades. I honestly think that would have changed the numbers more than the constant and tired old bullshit.

I think there are many on the pro independence side who are relying on the campaign to shift attitudes in the same way as it did in 2014. This could well be a mistake. Equally when confronted with a definite decision, it may be a case of ' ok, here's the shitshow of the last ten years, make a choice' pushing indy over the line.

For a lot of the two years pre referendum, the debate was pretty grown up IMO. It was only when the howling UK media and westminster politicians got involved in the last few months that it got rabid.

Wrt quebec, if the unionists had any sense they'd follow that example. Two relatively close referendums, both lost, made the movement fade away. But by denying the second one and fuelling the grievance, they're making the indy movement stronger.

Risky strategy. Isn't that the gamble Cameron took on Brexit?

[fishfoodie]

Well, OK, but there hasn't been the real shift that most were expecting, including myself, and it's unlikely that there is going to be larger opportunities for it to do so than Brexit or Boris.

I think it is a bit of entrenched views but also that the SNP offer no credible alternatives. It must be time for reflection for all independence supporters if two massive bombs don't change the dial, years of grievance and fairy tale notions of an amazing future with no credible policy to back it up hasn't pushed the right buttons. As I've said a few times, it needs a grown up debate with a realistic view of the probable outcomes and how tough it will be for a couple of decades. I honestly think that would have changed the numbers more than the constant and tired old bullshit.

I think there are many on the pro independence side who are relying on the campaign to shift attitudes in the same way as it did in 2014. This could well be a mistake. Equally when confronted with a definite decision, it may be a case of ' ok, here's the shitshow of the last ten years, make a choice' pushing indy over the line.

For a lot of the two years pre referendum, the debate was pretty grown up IMO. It was only when the howling UK media and westminster politicians got involved in the last few months that it got rabid.

Wrt quebec, if the unionists had any sense they'd follow that example. Two relatively close referendums, both lost, made the movement fade away. But by denying the second one and fuelling the grievance, they're making the indy movement stronger.

Risky strategy. Isn't that the gamble Cameron took on Brexit?

Cameron's mistake was in holding a Referendum, after 8 years of the Tories kicking working class people; & then expecting those same people to vote Remain, when the Tories told them to !

Personally I hope they do force a Scottish Referendum, after a couple years of Inflation running in the teens, & strong leadership from the Tinfoil Lady

[Lobby]

I think there are many on the pro independence side who are relying on the campaign to shift attitudes in the same way as it did in 2014. This could well be a mistake. Equally when confronted with a definite decision, it may be a case of ' ok, here's the shitshow of the last ten years, make a choice' pushing indy over the line.

For a lot of the two years pre referendum, the debate was pretty grown up IMO. It was only when the howling UK media and westminster politicians got involved in the last few months that it got rabid.

Wrt quebec, if the unionists had any sense they'd follow that example. Two relatively close referendums, both lost, made the movement fade away. But by denying the second one and fuelling the grievance, they're making the indy movement stronger.

Risky strategy. Isn't that the gamble Cameron took on Brexit?

Cameron's mistake was in holding a Referendum, after 8 years of the Tories kicking working class people; & then expecting those same people to vote Remain, when the Tories told them to !

Personally I hope they do force a Scottish Referendum, after a couple years of Inflation running in the teens, & strong leadership from the Tinfoil Lady

Cameron's other mistake was failing to realise that most of the UK press had spent the previous 20 years telling the British public that Europe and the EU was to blame for everything. Corbyn refusing the campaign for remain, and the refugee crisis with Frau Merkel unilaterally opening Europe's borders happening at the same time as the referendum campaign didn't exactly help either

[Hal Jordan]

Corbyn was a Lexiter, though. The fucking idiot believed that it was stopping state aid, and that the EU was just a neo-capitalist structure to aid the suppression of the working class.

Cameron was a gutless coward, too scared to face down the threat of UKIP, who then scarpered after leaving a massive loose stool on the country when his half-arsed Remain campaign fell flat on its face.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Corbyn was a Lexiter, though. The fucking idiot believed that it was stopping state aid, and that the EU was just a neo-capitalist structure to aid the suppression of the working class.

Cameron was a gutless coward, too scared to face down the threat of UKIP, who then scarpered after leaving a massive loose stool on the country when his half-arsed Remain campaign fell flat on its face.

Historically the left have considered the EU too right wing and the right, too left wing.

[tabascoboy]

[sefton]

It’s just dreadful, pandering to the lowest common denominator.

[Margin__Walker]

Oh Jesus.

Regardless of the messaging, I can't get over how shit it is. I thought he was meant to be the slick one.

[pigsy]

In one of the replies they are called the #selfservatives

[I like neeps]

Something something efficiency, something something competition, something something investment.

The Avanti West Coast story is mental. A train franchise run on drivers working overtime?! Are there any good train franchises in the UK? I think Chiltern and GWR are mostly good. I remember liking stagecoach on the east coast mainline and I think when I've used LNER they've been mostly fine. The rest just seem a mess.

[Hal Jordan]

Oh Jesus.

Regardless of the messaging, I can't get over how shit it is. I thought he was meant to be the slick one.

Maybe he should have gone to someone with one of those worthless creative degrees that doesn't make you rich.

[petej]

Oh Jesus.

Regardless of the messaging, I can't get over how shit it is. I thought he was meant to be the slick one.

Maybe he should have gone to someone with one of those worthless creative degrees that doesn't make you rich.

Don't think you need a creative degree to realise this was tone deaf.

[Paddington Bear]

Something something efficiency, something something competition, something something investment.

The Avanti West Coast story is mental. A train franchise run on drivers working overtime?! Are there any good train franchises in the UK? I think Chiltern and GWR are mostly good. I remember liking stagecoach on the east coast mainline and I think when I've used LNER they've been mostly fine. The rest just seem a mess.

Yes Chiltern are pretty consistently excellent, rarely delayed and if it is it's by sub-10 minutes. In fairness it is probably the simplest route to run as their core line stops at Aylesbury and there aren't too many potential points of failure, but they've made travel to Birmingham and then Oxford very competitive and have maximised the potential of Marylebone.

[I like neeps]

Something something efficiency, something something competition, something something investment.

The Avanti West Coast story is mental. A train franchise run on drivers working overtime?! Are there any good train franchises in the UK? I think Chiltern and GWR are mostly good. I remember liking stagecoach on the east coast mainline and I think when I've used LNER they've been mostly fine. The rest just seem a mess.

Yes Chiltern are pretty consistently excellent, rarely delayed and if it is it's by sub-10 minutes. In fairness it is probably the simplest route to run as their core line stops at Aylesbury and there aren't too many potential points of failure, but they've made travel to Birmingham and then Oxford very competitive and have maximised the potential of Marylebone.

Yes agreed on that. My only complaint with Chiltern is they still are using some very old trains and the WiFi isn't good at all. But they run a good, reliable service.

[Slick]

Something something efficiency, something something competition, something something investment.

The Avanti West Coast story is mental. A train franchise run on drivers working overtime?! Are there any good train franchises in the UK? I think Chiltern and GWR are mostly good. I remember liking stagecoach on the east coast mainline and I think when I've used LNER they've been mostly fine. The rest just seem a mess.

Yes Chiltern are pretty consistently excellent, rarely delayed and if it is it's by sub-10 minutes. In fairness it is probably the simplest route to run as their core line stops at Aylesbury and there aren't too many potential points of failure, but they've made travel to Birmingham and then Oxford very competitive and have maximised the potential of Marylebone.

Yes agreed on that. My only complaint with Chiltern is they still are using some very old trains and the WiFi isn't good at all. But they run a good, reliable service.

LNER have always been pretty good to be fair, I use the Edinburgh - London route a lot, although the wifi NEVER works. Annoyingly, once the government took over prices seemed to go up and getting a cheap 1st class fare didn't happen.

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-12651131

These two things aged very well, on topic.

[fishfoodie]

Modern politicians seem to be completely incapable of adopting policies that extend beyond the life of their current term !

In the case of the Tories, they seem to be able to have destructive ones, that do; i.e. running down the NHS, but constructive ones are few & far between. I suppose HS2, & Crossrail are two, but I water doesn't offer the same cosplay photo-ops, & Energy projects are constantly undermined by special interest groups.

The only reason the Bumblecunt latched onto the Modular reactors, was someone told him they could open a new one every year.

[ASMO]

Modern politicians seem to be completely incapable of adopting policies that extend beyond the life of their current term !

In the case of the Tories, they seem to be able to have destructive ones, that do; i.e. running down the NHS, but constructive ones are few & far between. I suppose HS2, & Crossrail are two, but I water doesn't offer the same cosplay photo-ops, & Energy projects are constantly undermined by special interest groups.

The only reason the Bumblecunt latched onto the Modular reactors, was someone told him they could open a new one every year.

The thinking being "why would i do something that could benefit the opposition in 10 years time" The lack of long term strategic planning is what has gotten us into all this mess in the first place. Fuck whats best for the country, i want to make sure the other cunts fail.

[Paddington Bear]

Modern politicians seem to be completely incapable of adopting policies that extend beyond the life of their current term !

In the case of the Tories, they seem to be able to have destructive ones, that do; i.e. running down the NHS, but constructive ones are few & far between. I suppose HS2, & Crossrail are two, but I water doesn't offer the same cosplay photo-ops, & Energy projects are constantly undermined by special interest groups.

The only reason the Bumblecunt latched onto the Modular reactors, was someone told him they could open a new one every year.

The thinking being "why would i do something that could benefit the opposition in 10 years time" The lack of long term strategic planning is what has gotten us into all this mess in the first place. Fuck whats best for the country, i want to make sure the other cunts fail.

Wonder what, if any, solution there is to this? Longer terms? Not an ideal situation.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Modern politicians seem to be completely incapable of adopting policies that extend beyond the life of their current term !

In the case of the Tories, they seem to be able to have destructive ones, that do; i.e. running down the NHS, but constructive ones are few & far between. I suppose HS2, & Crossrail are two, but I water doesn't offer the same cosplay photo-ops, & Energy projects are constantly undermined by special interest groups.

The only reason the Bumblecunt latched onto the Modular reactors, was someone told him they could open a new one every year.

Modern politicians or just politicians?

The various failings in UK infrastructure are pretty much all decades in the making, for instance there's only one new reservoir being built of any size and even that will not be ready for another 5-6 years, but for any other sensible/serious enlargement and/or new builds there's stuff allegedly at a planning stage so best case scenario something might happen in 10 years, luckily water isn't important

[Tichtheid]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-12651131

These two things aged very well, on topic.

I worked on the construction of Torness nuclear power station, I was a labourer in a firm that put up the heating and ventilation ducting.

You don't only get the end product of the power generation, you get 8 to 10 years of jobs and training of apprentices, not to mention the extra jobs in the local community in pubs, hotels, shops, taxis, hairdressers...

Lots of my mates got apprenticeships with MacAlpine as carpenters, others trained as electricians, plumbers, draughtsmen, all sorts.

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-12651131

These two things aged very well, on topic.

I worked on the construction of Torness nuclear power station, I was a labourer in a firm that put up the heating and ventilation ducting.

You don't only get the end product of the power generation, you get 8 to 10 years of jobs and training of apprentices, not to mention the extra jobs in the local community in pubs, hotels, shops, taxis, hairdressers...

Lots of my mates got apprenticeships with MacAlpine as carpenters, others trained as electricians, plumbers, draughtsmen, all sorts.

And of course the bloke who started his training on the project 10 years later can run elements of the next power station to be built. And the more energy we can produce cheaply the more competitive British firms are etc etc. Just have a sense that for 20 years or so British politicians of all stripes didn't see this sort of stuff as being important, the next 20 years will be spent talking about little else as a result.