Stop voting for fucking Tories

[I like neeps]

Even as a Tory I think that the time has come to renationalise the water and the energy companies. The market has failed.

I'm kind of fine with the energy privatisation - yes companies are destroying the planet and yes they've created untold wealth for states actively hostile to the west and democracy but "the market" hasn't failed. We've just cut off a major supplier to try and stop a war. The market would surely suggest we don't do that?

Water is obviously a disaster.

Well, fundamentally if you have a market where the exit of one supplier or consumer distorts the market, it’s by definition not a true free market and should be regulated. We do some of that but the mechanism in place to regulate it is not sufficient to protect the consumers from debilitating price swings. So further action is required to prevent disastrous impacts of the market failure.

Also the structure of electricity pricing being related to gas generation, and the fact there are open trans national markets has impacted all of us. Scotlands generation comes substantially from renewables and nuclear, so why have prices risen as much there when the cost of generation has changed very little? Similarly in France 90% of electricity is generated from non fossil fuel sources so being connected to a trans national market has damaged them.

The price of renewables has risen because they're tied to the price of gas. It is fairly simple to change that and now there is an overwhelming reason to I am sure they will. It's an easy, quick win for the incoming govt.

Energy isn't a free market because of the cartel. But we'd be doing deals with them anyway. The UK will always need fossil fuels. Or Uranium, and again look at countries with uranium deposits.

[Biffer]

I'm kind of fine with the energy privatisation - yes companies are destroying the planet and yes they've created untold wealth for states actively hostile to the west and democracy but "the market" hasn't failed. We've just cut off a major supplier to try and stop a war. The market would surely suggest we don't do that?

Water is obviously a disaster.

Well, fundamentally if you have a market where the exit of one supplier or consumer distorts the market, it’s by definition not a true free market and should be regulated. We do some of that but the mechanism in place to regulate it is not sufficient to protect the consumers from debilitating price swings. So further action is required to prevent disastrous impacts of the market failure.

Also the structure of electricity pricing being related to gas generation, and the fact there are open trans national markets has impacted all of us. Scotlands generation comes substantially from renewables and nuclear, so why have prices risen as much there when the cost of generation has changed very little? Similarly in France 90% of electricity is generated from non fossil fuel sources so being connected to a trans national market has damaged them.

The price of renewables has risen because they're tied to the price of gas. It is fairly simple to change that and now there is an overwhelming reason to I am sure they will. It's an easy, quick win for the incoming govt.

Energy isn't a free market because of the cartel. But we'd be doing deals with them anyway. The UK will always need fossil fuels. Or Uranium, and again look at countries with uranium deposits.

Yeah, that’s the point I’m making. It’s not anything close to a free market, so regulation is essential to protect the consumer, and indeed to an extent the supplier. Those regs must be changed to decouple from gas.

[vball]

It's the I'll help 'my kids' which is so often telling.

Not sure what you mean. I’d pay my sons’ mortgages or whatever for a few months if it came to it and I wouldn’t do the same for somebody else’s. Does that make me a villain?

No.

However, the attitude R&C is saying is "all this asset inflation is earned (wrong) and good because I can provide for my family" is bad long term because it entrenches inequality. It's a very broken society if BOMA or BODG (bank of dead grandparents) is the leading mortgage provider.

When we got married, my folks bought us a fridge and my wife's mum bought us cutlery. When my folks died we got £8k and nothing from my wife's side. Now that my kids are starting to work and thinking about buying, I would give them what they need. I only got into Uni as a mature student at 33 (did not apply myself at school) and have as other see me, worked bloody hard and moved to where I could get work. We had 15% interest on our mortgage at times. It is awful for loads of people and if helping my kids is being selfish, then that is what I am.

The govt needs to do something more than it is doing.

[fishfoodie]

When we got married, my folks bought us a fridge and my wife's mum bought us cutlery. When my folks died we got £8k and nothing from my wife's side. Now that my kids are starting to work and thinking about buying, I would give them what they need. I only got into Uni as a mature student at 33 (did not apply myself at school) and have as other see me, worked bloody hard and moved to where I could get work. We had 15% interest on our mortgage at times. It is awful for loads of people and if helping my kids is being selfish, then that is what I am.

It's not that your being selfish, or doing anything unnatural ....

The govt needs to do something more than it is doing.

it's just that this is what you, as a member of the group the Tories are continually seducing with rising house prices, need to be telling the bastards !

You have the ability to help out your children, but there are millions of households who can't, & when the market goes pop; your ability to help kids will disappear, & if it goes pop after you've helped them, they'll be in negative equity,, & you'll have lost most, if not all the equity you'd built up while the bubble inflated.

The Politicians need to keep to house building targets they keep on setting, & then failing on, because this way, the bubble will deflate, instead of exploding, & people get singed, not burned, & everyone benefits.

[Tichtheid]

I know it's terribly old fashioned, but I'd like to see a massive house building project in the UK, houses that would be publicly owned and for which you payed rent at an affordable level. Those houses would be maintained by publicly employed trades people who did a good job for a decent wage and the utilities would be provided by state-owned suppliers whose goal was just that, to provide the best service possible without the garrote of the profit margin to be considered.

In short we pay into the common good for things that we all need, and the market supplies things that we choose.

It really wasn't that broken a model, it needed to be upgraded, not obliterated.

[weegie01]

I know it's terribly old fashioned, but I'd like to see a massive house building project in the UK, houses that would be publicly owned and for which you payed rent at an affordable level. Those houses would be maintained by publicly employed trades people who did a good job for a decent wage and the utilities would be provided by state-owned suppliers whose goal was just that, to provide the best service possible without the garrote of the profit margin to be considered.

In short we pay into the common good for things that we all need, and the market supplies things that we choose.

Communist.

[I like neeps]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

[Torquemada 1420]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

70% of pubs might close
https://www.cips.org/supply-management/ ... rgy-costs/

Even if that number is way off, the sector will be destroyed.

[dpedin]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

She is a complete moron, however she is their moron and is being worked from the back by some very dodgy dark figures. She, like the Blonde Bumblecunt, will do as she is told to keep their ERG, oil and gas funded, big business and venture/disaster capitalists backers happy. She is a zealot and will populate her cabinet with her Britannia Unchained buddies and they will collectively do immense damage whilst in power. Get ready to welcome Freeports and Charter cities and say goodbye to democracy as we know it. A dangerous twat of the first order.

[I like neeps]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

70% of pubs might close
https://www.cips.org/supply-management/ ... rgy-costs/

Even if that number is way off, the sector will be destroyed.

And then restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, with them. High street retail in a further decline when people stop going to population centres. Everyone can see it coming, surely Truss and her advisors can too.

I don't think it'll be 70%. A part of me thinks when people stop heating their homes so much they'll quite fancy going to the pub.

Also every single pu , restaurant etc is going to start turning down their thermostat which will help. They're thinking 2021 heating usage which isn't a reality.

[SaintK]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

She is a complete moron, however she is their moron and is being worked from the back by some very dodgy dark figures. She, like the Blonde Bumblecunt, will do as she is told to keep their ERG, oil and gas funded, big business and venture/disaster capitalists backers happy. She is a zealot and will populate her cabinet with her Britannia Unchained buddies and they will collectively do immense damage whilst in power. Get ready to welcome Freeports and Charter cities and say goodbye to democracy as we know it. A dangerous twat of the first order.

Apart from Raab who backed the wrong horse and will be sacked. Otherwise spot on unfortunately!

[I like neeps]

She's also decided to trigger article 16. A trade war in a cost of living crisis seems brave...

Truss won't take the Tories into the election. Her party don't like her, the public don't like her and she's about to lead us in the worst hit to living standards since the war. Her only plans are making it worse or not "talking" the country into a recession. I don't know if she's figured out yet a recession is what happens when people's disposable incomes are decimated and the hospitality economy can't afford their bills.

She is a complete moron, however she is their moron and is being worked from the back by some very dodgy dark figures. She, like the Blonde Bumblecunt, will do as she is told to keep their ERG, oil and gas funded, big business and venture/disaster capitalists backers happy. She is a zealot and will populate her cabinet with her Britannia Unchained buddies and they will collectively do immense damage whilst in power. Get ready to welcome Freeports and Charter cities and say goodbye to democracy as we know it. A dangerous twat of the first order.

Apart from Raab who backed the wrong horse and will be sacked. Otherwise spot on unfortunately!

There's absolutely no chance of charter cities happening. I don't think it's really true. Truss is going to come face to face with reality and like Johnson she believes in nothing so she will announce lockdown esk measures for energy prices to save her skin as much as anything - it's just a matter of when.

[Insane_Homer]

[fishfoodie]

I declare this, the 26th day of August 2022; National Punch a Tory MP in the Face Day !

[SaintK]

I declare this, the 26th day of August 2022; National Punch a Tory MP in the Face Day !

And so many of them are so punchable!!!!

[SaintK]

This is probably why

[I like neeps]

This is probably why

The government have nothing to say as they aren't a government right now.

Graham Brady needs to start acting in the interest of the country. Call an end to the nonsense and get a government in place.

[fishfoodie]

This is probably why

The government have nothing to say as they aren't a government right now.

Graham Brady needs to start acting in the interest of the country. Call an end to the nonsense and get a government in place.

What was their excuse in the last 6 months, when they've all known since March what this current bump was going to be ?

[tabascoboy]

People in fuel poverty are less likely to be Tory voters I guess and and if this Government doesn't at the very least take measures to maintain energy supplies and put a brake on escalating costs and they'd be even less likely to vote Tory next time. You'd think that if only for cynical reasons they'd stop sitting back and waiting for things to happen by magic...

[Biffer]

People in fuel poverty are less likely to be Tory voters I guess and and if this Government doesn't at the very least take measures to maintain energy supplies and put a brake on escalating costs and they'd be even less likely to vote Tory next time. You'd think that if only for cynical reasons they'd stop sitting back and waiting for things to happen by magic...

You might be surprised. They got a big vote in working class areas in the north last time round who seem to have already substantially switched back, this will only reinforce that. Also, there are a huge number of pensioners vote tory, and not just wealthy ones. There will be a lot of older voters struggling on a fixed income with no potential to increase that by doing extra work etc., and they have to heat their homes during the day rather than going into the office.

[SaintK]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

[I like neeps]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

He's a hypocrite but FINALLY someone in government is saying this. Everyone in the next government including labour politicians and every paper in the country should be saying "cut back on usage" every single day.

[Torquemada 1420]

I declare this, the 26th day of August 2022; National Punch a Tory MP in the Face Day !

A day is entirely inadequate.

[Torquemada 1420]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

He carefully avoids stating to whom help will be tendered.

[tabascoboy]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

He's a hypocrite but FINALLY someone in government is saying this. Everyone in the next government including labour politicians and every paper in the country should be saying "cut back on usage" every single day.

Starting with Christmas lights! ( Bah humbug... well we'll allow solar powered though )

[SaintK]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

He's a hypocrite but FINALLY someone in government is saying this. Everyone in the next government including labour politicians and every paper in the country should be saying "cut back on usage" every single day.

Yes, I agree up to a point, though of course there will be 1'000's who are already suffering fuel poverty and have nothing more to cut back
Looks like war in Ukraine will be used as camouflage for government mistakes, incompetence and mismanagement of our energy supply over the years

[petej]

Says the man with multiple homes here and abroad who claims some of his utility bills at the taxpayers expense!

He's a hypocrite but FINALLY someone in government is saying this. Everyone in the next government including labour politicians and every paper in the country should be saying "cut back on usage" every single day.

Yes, I agree up to a point, though of course there will be 1'000's who are already suffering fuel poverty and have nothing more to cut back
Looks like war in Ukraine will be used as camouflage for government mistakes, incompetence and mismanagement of our energy supply over the years

Like covid then.

[tabascoboy]

See Truss is giving Macron a dig out at home by saying the jury is out on him. Nothing like a hatchet faced Brit telling the French they are shite to get them to put their differences aside. I'd say he has a grin from ear to ear

A dignified response

[Biffer]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

[robmatic]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

[Biffer]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Concentrating on carbon resources only makes the problem worse in the long run, increasing the need for cooling and protection from extreme weather. And you're still in hock to overseas countries. Do everything you can domestically first.

[I like neeps]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Venezuela is back online I think. The US have ended their coup because they want their oil.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

[Raggs]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Electric cars with suitable chargers can help massively with this. It's already being trialled extensively. As more and more cars get networked the more effective it'll be.

[Hal Jordan]

People in fuel poverty are less likely to be Tory voters I guess and and if this Government doesn't at the very least take measures to maintain energy supplies and put a brake on escalating costs and they'd be even less likely to vote Tory next time. You'd think that if only for cynical reasons they'd stop sitting back and waiting for things to happen by magic...

You might be surprised. They got a big vote in working class areas in the north last time round who seem to have already substantially switched back, this will only reinforce that. Also, there are a huge number of pensioners vote tory, and not just wealthy ones. There will be a lot of older voters struggling on a fixed income with no potential to increase that by doing extra work etc., and they have to heat their homes during the day rather than going into the office.

My paternal grandmother admitted to my father on her death bed that she had voted Tory all her life, but had lied to my grandfather and said she voted Liberal as he had always done.

They started out in pretty poor circumstances in the East End, but managed to end up having their retirement in their own bungalow in Ramsgate, thanks partly to my dad winning a scholarship and being part of the lucky generation that got free university education, allowing him to effectively pay them back by contributing to the house.

I suspect she had that fear of returning to poverty that meant she was willing to kick downwards to keep what she had.

[petej]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

[fishfoodie]

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

[Hal Jordan]

The problem with hydrogen is that it's a drag chain on decarbonisation at present. Pretty much all of it is generated by fossil fuel processes, and whilst there is a coming hope for renewable, the "the only emission is water vapour" and the easy to understand analogy with gas - pipe bring fuel, fuel burn, warm good - allows politicians to feel comfortable with it (and the honking donations from oil and gas don't help).

This means they look at what seems to be an easy option, especially when compared with a total shift in how the grid is managed as we have to stop burning stuff.

With energy, it should be

Reduce
Reduce
Reduce
Insulate
Insulate
Insulate
Generate as near as carbon free as can be managed, whether self-generated or via the grid.

The problem is that this requires regulations and strong enforcement, an absolute anathema to the current crop of Britannia Unchained cunts shitting all over the face of the country, allied to the ability to look beyond the current electoral cycle, which is largely beyond any politician.

[Biffer]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

[Raggs]

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering