A Law tweak to stop the incessant kicking?

[Kawazaki]

To discourage so much aimless kicking, players can call the 'mark' from anywhere on the pitch - result: free-kick or scrum plus 50/22 opportunity if applicable.

This is actually how the Law on the mark was applied many years ago.

Thoughts?

[assfly]

I don't think that will make much difference, as so many of the kicks these days are competitive in the air.

[Niegs]

Mark from anywhere would slow the game down, surely. Teams are fairly risk-averse opting for a box kick and a contest down field than risk a turnover in penalty/kick-for-a-driving-maul range. And if a player takes a mark, with the relative effectiveness of contest / kick chase, it's almost never going to result in a tap and run. It'll be a scrum or another big, contestable kick.

I think taking away lineout boosting would have a better effect because penalties given away probably won't go to the corner and there'd be more of an actual contest when the ball goes into touch.

[Snooze]

Mark from anywhere would slow the game down, surely. Teams are fairly risk-averse opting for a box kick and a contest down field than risk a turnover in penalty/kick-for-a-driving-maul range. And if a player takes a mark, with the relative effectiveness of contest / kick chase, it's almost never going to result in a tap and run. It'll be a scrum or another big, contestable kick.

I think taking away lineout boosting would have a better effect because penalties given away probably won't go to the corner and there'd be more of an actual contest when the ball goes into touch.

The reason lifting was made legal is that they couldn't police it. The way they 'blocked' people coming thru the lineouts was almost the same as lifting. SA were a master class at the subtle lifting. And I doubt the percentages of winning on your own throw are much different between the pre and post lifting times. It's more the accuracy of the throw that says whether a lineout is won cleanly.

Kawa - I agree with Neigs on the slowing down. Too much of that already. But don't have an alternative to offer.

[PornDog]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

[Niegs]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

This! ... get on the horn to World Rugby!

Sometimes I feel like the refs are the nerds looking for validation, to be welcomed into the cool kids' group by allowing the cheeky cool kids to push the boundaries.

[sockwithaticket]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

While teams are scared of holding onto the ball, they're also wary of expending energy fruitlessly by trying to carry into a resolute defence with 14 men on their feet.

Sticking the ball up is the easiest way to make ground and engineer potential broken field opportunities.

Fixing the ruck so that more players are required to get involved is necessary.

[Ymx]

To discourage so much aimless kicking, players can call the 'mark' from anywhere on the pitch - result: free-kick or scrum plus 50/22 opportunity if applicable.

This is actually how the Law on the mark was applied many years ago.

Thoughts?

That’s quite interesting.

Initially I was thinking it sounds utterly ridiculous.

But then I realised it kills box kicks. Yay!

The Saffers and Irish will hate it, so even more reason to like it.

[Kawazaki]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

That's my other brainwave Law variation, jacklers have to put at least one leg beyond the ball before they're allowed to put their hands on the ball. Makes it slightly slower for the jackler to get into position, makes him instantly identifiable to the ref as legal, keeps the jackler's bodyweight supported by their own legs, will make when to jackle more discretionary and, best of all, it moves the back of the neck/top of spine of the jackler more to the side so it's less exposed.

[Jethro]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking.

England?

[Uncle fester]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

Then you'll have teams endlessly recycling the ball.

[Niegs]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

Then you'll have teams endlessly recycling the ball.

Risk-reward of putting more people into the ruck to win it by shoving over.

[dabooldawg]

Fix is easy.

Any kick outside your 22 which is taken cleanly by the opposition results in a scrum to them from where you kicked it.

Is it perfect? No. And it will be more scrums for 1 game until teams adopt. But aimless "I don't want to play with the ball so I'm gonna hang it up there and hope for the best" kicks will stop.

Or, crazy thought, no kicking apart from defensive clearing kicks in your 22. There can be bells n whistles like getting the line out if it goes out past halfway etc. Ruck on your own 10m line? No box kick n chase for you. Better start learning how to run the ball

[PornDog]

just fix the ruck - depower the poach - and you remove the root cause of most of the aimless kicking. Teams wont be terrified of hanging on to the ball so much!

You don't stop your finger from bleeding by putting a sticky plaster on your toe!

Then you'll have teams endlessly recycling the ball.

Or you know, you could just ruck over the ball like we used to do before the poach became a thing in the late 90s/early 00s - it never existed before then.

I'll never say these words again, but I agree with Toga - his idea of having to have one foot in front of the ball before effecting a lift has a lot of merit! And of course you should only be able to do that if there are no other player on their feet there already*

* this seems to be largely irrelevant to the way the poach is currently reffed - so long as you are the first man from your team there, irrespective of whether there are opposition player already there and on their feet, you seem to be allowed put hands on the ball - its fucking ridiculous. Just ruck over the damned thing like a good lad.

The reason the box kick, and kick tennis before that, became so popular is due to it being so bloody dangerous to hang on to the ball yourself. Treat the illness, not the symptoms!

[Niegs]

I had to laugh while reffing U19s today, penalizing hands in the ruck and they guy politely wondering what he did wrong. I suspect he often gets away with poaches as such, but there was no question: shoulders on with opponent, one step push, both hands on the ball.

I also saw a rare traditional 'loose scrum' ... ball on the ground, kid about to pick it up but saw a chaser coming, both engage and start pushing over the ball on the deck with no one else there!

[Line6 HXFX]

With rugby defences are so tight, and attacking.. there are only a few options you can use to get around it.
Take away the randomness and hail Mary "anything can happen" of box kicking and attacking kicks generally, and what are you left with?

A boring, stale mate, meat grinder early onset dementia inducing collision sport, where everyone is up in the defensive line ?

[Niegs]

With rugby defences are so tight, and attacking.. there are only a few options you can use to get around it.
Take away the randomness and hail Mary "anything can happen" of box kicking and attacking kicks generally, and what are you left with?

A boring, stale mate, meat grinder early onset dementia inducing collision sport, where everyone is up in the defensive line ?

I'd have more kicking, actually. Chips and grubbers and low territorial kicks into space. More randomness.

Pros seem to prefer low risk, though, hence pods, relative lack of offloading in most teams, and boxes.