Douglas Murray

[I like neeps]

Woman's rights famously well protected in western societies these days.

[Random1]

Woman's rights famously well protected in western societies these days.

This a serious comment?

The west is by far the most equal in relation to women.

[Random1]

Yeah, I’m toddling to bed too, so I’ll make this the last post, but will look more tomorrow.

Here’s a YouTube video of Murray debating immigration, with the question being; is Britain full? And he says, no it’s not.

As I say, I’ll look more tomorrow, but his views in this video on the exact point you’re referring to seems to be inconsistent with the far right - again, he seems pretty reasonable in the points he makes.

Is this a joke?

The far right has no problem with "right kind of immigration". It fits their world view perfectly. The problem isn't that the country is literally full and there's no space or resources. They have no issue with rich white Christian / Christian-adjacent immigration. Andi it's very flexible - sometimes it's the ethno part, sometimes it's the nationalism part, but it's almost always the "looks like us, thinks like us" reality of it.

Got to get to work, but will come back to this thread tonight, as I’m still finding a disconnect between describing Murray as far right and the stuff I’m seeing when he’s interviewed.

Here’s a shorter 9 min video where he is just asking for more conversation. There are a couple of clips of videos at the start that I’ll track down later, as they hint at a more ardent stance, but the rest of the video seems reasoned (albeit, I don’t agree with all the points he makes).

Oh, it is a joke.

Look, you have to work really fucking hard to try and make out that Douglas Murray isn't far right. It seems pretty clear to me that your thought process has gone like this: "I agree with what Douglas Murray says, I don't consider myself far right, ergo Douglas Murray isn't far right".

Douglas Murray has written several books railing against immigration - primarily against immigration of non-white and/or non-Christian people. In "The Strange Death of Europe" he basically pushes the far-right 'Great Replacement' conspiracy theory, which - if you've been paying attention - is a cause celebre of notable far right media figures at the moment and has been taken up with great gusto by the people who like to commit mass murders in the name of ~protecting western civilisation~. In that book he famously boosted "Camp of the Saints" which is often described as 'a blatant white supremacist novel'. So that's nice. As is his admiration for Enoch "Rivers of Blood" Powell, in the same book.

In the same book, he also directly referenced Richard Camus, the French writer who is credited with inventing that 'great replacement' theory, and who has been so massively influential on far right politicians like Marine Le Pen & Eric Zemmour (who also wrote 'Le Suicide Francais', just so we're keeping track of how these people essentially amplify each other). Murray claimed that Camus' population replacement was indeed happening in Britain. A far right conspiracy theory being extolled by Douglas Murray.

Douglas Murray has written countless screeds and polemics decrying immigration in extremist terms on several of the many platforms he regularly publishes on. A sample quote:

Among other things the fact that we are living with the consequences of an immigration and ‘integration’ fantasy which should have been abandoned years ago. Instead our governments have kept pretending that the weakening of Europe’s external borders and the erosion of its internal borders happening at the same time as one of the largest population replacement exercises in history could have no tangible effects on our continent’s future.

Douglas Murray campaigned for a hostile environment against Muslims in Europe:

In 2006, Douglas Murray made a speech in the Dutch Parliament called "What are we to do about Islam?" His answers were uncompromising. "Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board: Europe must look like a less attractive proposition". How this was to be done was not set out exhaustively, though Murray suggested demolishing mosques in certain circumstances. He also said that "all immigration into Europe from Muslim countries must stop" (presumably including that of non-Muslims from those countries, such as atheists and Christians). Finally, he suggested that European Muslims who "take part in, plot, assist or condone [my italic] violence against the west must be forcibly deported to their place of origin".

(he also described Muslims as a 'demographic time-bomb' - oh look, there's that conspiracy theory again)

His extremism regarding Islam is what led the Tories - not exactly a hotbed of liberalism - to cut ties with him: https://www.conservativehome.com/2011/1 ... -religion/

Douglas Murray claimed that Tommy Robinson of the EDL, BNP, and Pegida, noted far-right anti-Islam activist and convicted criminal, is not a racist, and that because he once punched a Nazi he can't possibly hold fascist views.

Douglas Murray repeatedly used Hungarian immigration as a stick to beat immigration with - it was a particularly useful one during Brexit - but has since cosied up to far right borderline fascist Viktor Orban of Hungary, and has spent time providing glowing media coverage for him and repeating (and applauding) his far right views to captive audiences in Hungary and the USA. Orban - in common with many on the far right - loved Murray's Strange Death of Europe. His cosying up to Orban is remarkable - Murray prides himself on being a champion against anti-Semitism, and Orban is a champion of anti-Semitism who frequently invokes anti-Semitic tropes regarding George Soros and others; also, Orban is virulently anti-LGBT and Murray is gay. Strange bedfellows indeed. I guess those principles aren't as rock solid as he makes out.

In one of his friendly meetings with Orban, he also enjoyed the company of Stephen Bannon, noted racist, pusher of far-right conspiracy theories, founder of far-right website Breitbart News, and fraudster (pardoned by Trump, natch). Bannon has openly been working to tie multiple far right groups together, especially in Europe, after getting punted by the Trump campaign.

Douglas Murray wrote glowing coverage of noted far-right politican Geert Wilders: 'Geert Wilders doesn't threaten Dutch liberalism: he's defending it'.

Douglas Murray wrote glowing coverage of noted far-right politician Eric Zemmour: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/1 ... evolution/

Douglas Murray wrote glowing coverage of noted far-right politician Matteo Salvini: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sal ... mmon-touch

Douglas Murray wrote a defence of noted far-right politician Marine Le Pen: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/is- ... far-right/

Douglas Murray likes writing lies about rape statistics in order to make out immigrants - particularly Muslims - are all dangerous rapists

Douglas Murray founded the Centre for Social Cohesion which became the Henry Jackson Society, described thusly by a co-founder:

Co-founder Matthew Jamison, who now works for YouGov, wrote in 2017 that he was ashamed of his involvement, having never imagined the Henry Jackson Society "would become a far-right, deeply anti-Muslim racist ... propaganda outfit to smear other cultures, religions and ethnic groups", further relating that: "The HJS for many years has relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam"

Douglas Murray defended John Cleese's comment about how London isn't 'an English city' by citing census data regarding a minority of Londoners being "white British" - skin colour giving the game away.

Douglas Murray is so commonly linked to the far right that even his Wikipedia page has multiple sources on this

Douglas Murray likes posting shit like this on Twitter:




What I posted is not the sum total of the evidence against him, just all that I could easily find on a morning where I've had very little sleep and am functioning on pure irritation. Douglas Murray is a far right scumbag who repeatedly spouts far-right conspiracy theories, has published books featuring far right viewpoints and conspiracy theories, has a long and odious history regarding immigration and Islam, is cosying up to far right dictators and never met a far right politician he wasn't willing to go to bat for, and is 100% a genuine fucking cunt.

Sorry JM - I didn’t mean to disappear following this exchange - I’ve been preoccupied on real life stuff.

Really appreciate all the effort you put in to this post - it’s beyond my concentration levels to reciprocate - so I’ll do it one response at a time; the fact that you compiled all that together is something I’m grateful for and is precisely why I fucking love this bored.

On the first article you post- the one where the conservatives disowned Murray; Murray actually penned his own response- which feels like there’s some animosity between the two writers. In it; he admits he was wrong on the more vitriolic aspects - but stands his ground on other matters.

https://conservativehome.com/2011/10/18 ... goodmanch/

For my own perspective on Islamists- I’m an atheist, and I adore Christopher Hitchens and also Sam Harris. I don’t think Murray said anything that they wouldn’t/haven’t in the speech he gave in Holland. Western society is something worth preserving in my view- and Islamist have elements that aren’t compatible, and so should be highlighted as not being acceptable in the uk today; eg homophobia, women’s rights, secular laws being superior to all others etc.

On to the second article you post -

“ Douglas Murray claimed that Tommy Robinson of the EDL, BNP, and Pegida, noted far-right anti-Islam activist and convicted criminal, is not a racist, and that because he once punched a Nazi he can't possibly hold fascist views”

That is a very jaundiced view of the article. He says that Robinson has committed crimes.

Murray’s point is that if the child rapists in Rotherham were treated with the same suspicion as that attributed to Robinson, then a lot of girls would have been in a better place now.

Pretty hard to argue that isn’t it?

[Biffer]

Nice to see you back with your attempts to gently normalise extreme views.

[Random1]

Nice to see you back with your attempts to gently normalise extreme views.

Murray isn’t an extremist.

If you think he is, then maybe you’re a bit further left than you appreciate.

Edit. Missed a word.

[Random1]

Gonna give it a rest after this one.

You’re assertion that Murray gives a glowing reference of wilders is concerning. If you think the article you link ( https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dutch-courage ).

This is not a glowing reference.

Are you actually reading these articles, or just reading the headlines?

[Random1]

One last post. Promise.

Here’s a video between Sam harris, murray and Jordan Peterson. I’d encourage anyone to watch it in its entirety, but for the refutation of Murray (and Jordan) being far right, start at , 1 hour 17 minutes.




Afraid you’ll need to give it 15 minutes, as they bounce about a bit.

JM - I can already feel your eye roll and subsequent dismissal due to Peterson being involved. I’d just encourage you to watch the video.

These guys aren’t dummies, and their views, if treated with intellectual respect, are at least thought provoking.

Edit: actually, it’ll take 30 mins to see all their discussion on why they get labelled as far right.

I think it’s worth it.

[Biffer]

Nice to see you back with your attempts to gently normalise extreme views.

Murray isn’t an extremist.

If you think he is, then maybe you’re a bit further left than you appreciate.

Edit. Missed a word.

You’ve been radicalised and you don’t realise it.

[Random1]

Nice to see you back with your attempts to gently normalise extreme views.

Murray isn’t an extremist.

If you think he is, then maybe you’re a bit further left than you appreciate.

Edit. Missed a word.

You’ve been radicalised and you don’t realise it.

I’m hardly radical. I’m having a natter on a rugby page.

In general I’m right of centre financially.

Social politics though, I must admit I’m confused.

I used to believe I was progressive.

I believe in equality for everyone, I think gay marriage is great, I think racism is nuts and hate sexism. I believe in separation of church and state, but that religious freedom is critical to a healthy society.

I’d have been considered pretty liberal 15 years ago.

The fact that you now think I’m radical right is more a testament to the socially progressive going into overdrive than my politics being radicalised.

[I like neeps]

Big brain Douglas Murray claiming that if genocide happens everyone dies. The idiots intellectual.

[Tichtheid]

He says reparations were paid 250 years ago, that would be around 1770.
That was around the height of the British slave trade wasn’t it?
I should probably have looked this up before posting.

I know reparations were paid in the mid 1800s, it took till the last decade for that borrowing to be paid off.

The only thing is that the compensation was paid to slave owners, not to slaves.

Have I missed something?

[FalseBayFC]

He says reparations were paid 250 years ago, that would be around 1770.
That was around the height of the British slave trade wasn’t it?
I should probably have looked this up before posting.

I know reparations were paid in the mid 1800s, it took till the last decade for that borrowing to be paid off.

The only thing is that the compensation was paid to slave owners, not to slaves.

Have I missed something?

After abolition the British landowners in the Caribbean and elsewhere still benefited hugely from slavery. Many of the super rich aristocrats in the UK owe their wealth to slavery.

[SaintK]

He says reparations were paid 250 years ago, that would be around 1770.
That was around the height of the British slave trade wasn’t it?
I should probably have looked this up before posting.

I know reparations were paid in the mid 1800s, it took till the last decade for that borrowing to be paid off.

The only thing is that the compensation was paid to slave owners, not to slaves.

Have I missed something?

After abolition the British landowners in the Caribbean and elsewhere still benefited hugely from slavery. Many of the super rich aristocrats in the UK owe their wealth to slavery.

Including current UK Tory MP Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax. Better known to his constituents as plain old Richard Drax!

A 2020 investigation by The Guardian found that Richard Drax still owns and grows sugar on the same Drax Hall Estate in Barbados that made the family's fortune. Over 200 years, 30,000 slaves died at this and the other Drax plantations, according to Professor Sir Hilary Beckles, Chair of CARICOM's Reparations Commission. "The Drax family has done more harm and violence to the black people of Barbados than any other," he said.

[petej]

He says reparations were paid 250 years ago, that would be around 1770.
That was around the height of the British slave trade wasn’t it?
I should probably have looked this up before posting.

I know reparations were paid in the mid 1800s, it took till the last decade for that borrowing to be paid off.

The only thing is that the compensation was paid to slave owners, not to slaves.

Have I missed something?

After abolition the British landowners in the Caribbean and elsewhere still benefited hugely from slavery. Many of the super rich aristocrats in the UK owe their wealth to slavery.

That the money paid to the slave owners came from the normal people of the UK is like the cherry on top of the disgusting cake.