Stop voting for fucking Tories

[GogLais]

Did Liz bother to appoint an ethics adviser, or is that role now officially redundant with the Tories ??

I think she made a point of not appointing one

Good. She’ll have no one else to blame. And anyway who else feels the need to have someone to advise them on honesty?

[GogLais]

Did Liz bother to appoint an ethics adviser, or is that role now officially redundant with the Tories ??

I think she made a point of not appointing one

[JM2K6]

The market reaction is financial news, the tweet came before that and was clearly referencing the Republicans. The idea the falling £ is the talk of middle America is just mad - they really don't care about what happens here.

Who said anything about middle America?

My twitter feed is full of yanks commenting on what's happening here. The NY Times hasn't been quiet on it. It's literally fucking headline news on the Washington Post right now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Sorry, but you're wrong on this. It's big news in the USA.

Which isn't what I was saying in the first place - Biden is not subtweeting the British government

Okay. But you seem to also believe they just don't care about what happens here. That's not true.

[dpedin]

The market reaction is financial news, the tweet came before that and was clearly referencing the Republicans. The idea the falling £ is the talk of middle America is just mad - they really don't care about what happens here.

Who said anything about middle America?

My twitter feed is full of yanks commenting on what's happening here. The NY Times hasn't been quiet on it. It's literally fucking headline news on the Washington Post right now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Sorry, but you're wrong on this. It's big news in the USA.

Which isn't what I was saying in the first place - Biden is not subtweeting the British government

Just a coincidence then the day before he was meeting Truss and after Truss had been on US radio and TV that day talking about the need to cut taxes, bakers bonuses, etc. Whilst his tweet wasn't a response to any specific trigger from the republicans I am sure it was aimed at both Truss and a regular reminder to the Republicans about his views on the matter. It followed the Biden refusal to meet Truss during his visit for the Queens funeral ostensibly due to her Gov stance on NI Protocol. don't think there is any great love between the two?

[Paddington Bear]

Who said anything about middle America?

My twitter feed is full of yanks commenting on what's happening here. The NY Times hasn't been quiet on it. It's literally fucking headline news on the Washington Post right now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Sorry, but you're wrong on this. It's big news in the USA.

Which isn't what I was saying in the first place - Biden is not subtweeting the British government

Okay. But you seem to also believe they just don't care about what happens here. That's not true.

Separate issue that you brought into an unrelated discussion and I foolishly responded to.

[fishfoodie]

Who said anything about middle America?

My twitter feed is full of yanks commenting on what's happening here. The NY Times hasn't been quiet on it. It's literally fucking headline news on the Washington Post right now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Sorry, but you're wrong on this. It's big news in the USA.

Which isn't what I was saying in the first place - Biden is not subtweeting the British government

Just a coincidence then the day before he was meeting Truss and after Truss had been on US radio and TV that day talking about the need to cut taxes, bakers bonuses, etc. Whilst his tweet wasn't a response to any specific trigger from the republicans I am sure it was aimed at both Truss and a regular reminder to the Republicans about his views on the matter. It followed the Biden refusal to meet Truss during his visit for the Queens funeral ostensibly due to her Gov stance on NI Protocol. don't think there is any great love between the two?

Biden & the DNC have no great love of the Tories, full stop !

Things really went south during the Obama administration, when Biden was VP, & advisers were shuttling back & forth between the GOP & Tory HQ.

Fundamentally, the same people are pulling the strings in the GOP, & Tory party, & for the same reasons. The shitgibbons trillion dollar tax gift for millionaires was his main goal, & lo & behold, what is the first act of this UK Government !

You didn't need to be Nostradamus to see any of this shit happening; on the contrary, you'd need to be an idiot not to expect it.

[Biffer]

Truss and Kwarteng are absolutely fixated on the Thatcher model, and they genuinely believe we need to suffer economic pain before improving, so they’re comfortable with it. They’re pulling the same economic levers she did, without understanding what they do, why they had the effect they did in the eighties and what the differences are (and effects will be) now. They’re just pulling away at them like a couple of fucking idiots. Which is what they are.

[Camroc2]

Truss and Kwarteng are absolutely fixated on the Thatcher model, and they genuinely believe we need to suffer economic pain before improving, so they’re comfortable with it. They’re pulling the same economic levers she did, without understanding what they do, why they had the effect they did in the eighties and what the differences are (and effects will be) now. They’re just pulling away at them like a couple of fucking idiots. Which is what they are.

And they don't have North Sea oil to cushion the economic damage.

[_Os_]

Truss and Kwarteng are absolutely fixated on the Thatcher model, and they genuinely believe we need to suffer economic pain before improving, so they’re comfortable with it. They’re pulling the same economic levers she did, without understanding what they do, why they had the effect they did in the eighties and what the differences are (and effects will be) now. They’re just pulling away at them like a couple of fucking idiots. Which is what they are.

Sums it up.

Truss dresses up as Thatcher, cuts taxes and ignores any protests, that's the extent of her Thatcherism. Back in the 1980s the UK had a North Sea oil boom which funded a massive tax cut/consumption binge, had public assets to sell off, an economy to financialise, and helped create the Single Market. Without all that the morons are going to keep building their South American style banana republic until Tory MPs stop them.

Markets now price a Bank Rate over 6% by August next year.

[fishfoodie]

Truss and Kwarteng are absolutely fixated on the Thatcher model, and they genuinely believe we need to suffer economic pain before improving, so they’re comfortable with it. They’re pulling the same economic levers she did, without understanding what they do, why they had the effect they did in the eighties and what the differences are (and effects will be) now. They’re just pulling away at them like a couple of fucking idiots. Which is what they are.

And they don't have North Sea oil to cushion the economic damage.

It's not like there's any miners union they can break either, & I can't imagine that coppers on horseback, trampling striking nurses will have the same positive effect on her polling.

[_Os_]

Tory alternate reality. There's people out there nodding along to all this, and will be directing their anger at whoever they're told to (not the Tories) by this time next year.

[tabascoboy]

Rumours of letters being submitted to the 1922 Committee already, is this whole farce engineered merely to enable the return of the Blonde Slug?

[SaintK]

Rumours of letters being submitted to the 1922 Committee already, is this whole farce engineered merely to enable the return of the Blonde Slug?

Doubt it with the privileges committee enquiry still hanging over his head. Hasn't even started yet!

[fishfoodie]

Rumours of letters being submitted to the 1922 Committee already, is this whole farce engineered merely to enable the return of the Blonde Slug?

Doubt it with the privileges committee enquiry still hanging over his head. Hasn't even started yet!

and today they pissed allover the legal opinion his fanboys paid for.

I think now Liz has gotten herself inside #10, she'll be a lot more reticent in her support of him. When she was campaigning with the membership, it made sense to support him, & say how awful it was he was ousted; but now she's the Leader, & it makes zero sense for her to support a rival for her job. She needs to get the support of her MPs, & they were the ones who saw he was a liability, kicked him out.

[tabascoboy]

Rumours of letters being submitted to the 1922 Committee already, is this whole farce engineered merely to enable the return of the Blonde Slug?

Doubt it with the privileges committee enquiry still hanging over his head. Hasn't even started yet!

I'm sure that can be made to go away. The other possibility is an earnest desire to lose a Vote of No Confidence, get Labour in and let them get all the flak for the oncoming shitstorm.

Either that or Truss/Kwarteng and those pulling the strings really have been reading "How to Run a Country - a guide for 7 year-olds"

[weegie01]

We encouraged our children to get internationally portable qualifications. I left the UK pre Thatcher. I'd lived through the shambles of the 70's and went off to find something better. That was always at the back of my mind.

If I were young today, I'd be doing the same again, and in fact one of our sons is in California. I just can't remember being so pessimistic about the future. In the past, even if you did not agree with policies, there was logic that could be understood. Now it just looks desperate dogmatism.

[dpedin]

Gov and Treasury trying hard to stop the rot but then the BoE step in and say they will not hesitate to raise interest rates as much as required to calm markets and protect the pound. Meanwhile Kwartang shows a streak of optimism and says he will produce a fiscal plan plus an OBR forecast on the 23rd November - I would be surprised if he is still in office by then. I wouldn't be bothered ironing more than 2-3 shirts at a time if I was him!

[I like neeps]

Tory alternate reality. There's people out there nodding along to all this, and will be directing their anger at whoever they're told to (not the Tories) by this time next year.

The sterling collapsed after the printing press created all this. Would be surprised if it's not front page of the DM tomorrow.

[petej]

Truss and Kwarteng are absolutely fixated on the Thatcher model, and they genuinely believe we need to suffer economic pain before improving, so they’re comfortable with it. They’re pulling the same economic levers she did, without understanding what they do, why they had the effect they did in the eighties and what the differences are (and effects will be) now. They’re just pulling away at them like a couple of fucking idiots. Which is what they are.

And they don't have North Sea oil to cushion the economic damage.

It's not like there's any miners union they can break either, & I can't imagine that coppers on horseback, trampling striking nurses will have the same positive effect on her polling.

On top of North sea oil they also had a lot of newish nuclear power stations. Thatcher was pro-EU for economic reasons. For people fixated on Thatcher it seems an oversight to miss all the single market for goods and services she pushed and ignore North sea oil and gas and nuclear which meant she held cards in disputes with the miners, plus housing stock to sell off and other state assets.

[Insane_Homer]

[_Os_]

Tory alternate reality. There's people out there nodding along to all this, and will be directing their anger at whoever they're told to (not the Tories) by this time next year.

The sterling collapsed after the printing press created all this. Would be surprised if it's not front page of the DM tomorrow.

Front pages like that were crazy shit after Friday evening already. Both those papers and the Telegraph have been praising the two morons since Friday.

[fishfoodie]

So the BoE isn't going to play ball, & they're going to going to jack up Interest rates, to try & prop up the pound; so the great plan of stimulating the economy, by giving the weathiest a tax cut, & funding it with borrowed cash, will be fucked before it's even had a chance to fail

The markets weren't impressed by the original budget, they saw the promise of more tax cuts in a couple of months time, as even worse, & now todays promises of an OBR report in a couple of months time, as again, totally inadequate.

Why don't you just let Larry the cat run the Exchequer, & chance him spending it all on catnip, & laser pointers ?

[dpedin]

At this rate I honestly can't see this shite Gov lasting more than a few months at best. Totally screwed up the economy in a mater of days, Kwartang failing to grasp the urgency and importance of the situation saying he will come back in 8 weeks to give fiscal statement and OBR analysis and sweet feck all from Truss, not a word. They must have locked themselves in the safe room at No10 and are getting pissed/high hoping it was all a bad dream?

Oh for the heady days of Oxford Debating Union, the Bullington Club and posh dinner parties, it seemed all so easy then.

[fishfoodie]

[mos_eisely_]

[_Os_]

US Fed Official: "The UK is merely proposing this ... aren't they? Right?"

[Dogbert]

Tory alternate reality. There's people out there nodding along to all this, and will be directing their anger at whoever they're told to (not the Tories) by this time next year.

The sterling collapsed after the printing press created all this. Would be surprised if it's not front page of the DM tomorrow.

Indeed it is the Top story of the Daily Heil

But its not the Tory Party's fault - just those nasty Speculators ( who are probably delighted in the scrapping of the 45% Tax rate )

But its not all bad news - love the way its spun as "£ rallies on volatile day "



However Front page of the day surely goes to the Daily Star (again)



In what sort of world do we live in where the Daily Star is probably the most honest daily paper in the UK ?

[Insane_Homer]

But its not all bad news - love the way its spun as "£ rallies on volatile day "

no but, yeah but...



but wait...



oh...

[_Os_]

Some are saying the UK is turning into an emerging market. It's obviously not (it's not high growth with favourable demographics), but is it even behaving like an emerging market?

During the Jacob Zuma era, a place man called Des van Rooyen was made finance minister, the market reaction was extremely negative, and the Rand immediately dropped 5% against the $. He was in on Friday and fitted up in concrete boots and gone by Monday, earning him the nickname "weekend special". In his place Zuma selected someone the markets had more faith in but wasn't a Zuma ally.

If the UK was actually behaving like an emerging market, Truss would now dismiss KamiKwazi, and beg Sunak to come back because that is the surest way to regain market confidence. Jacob Zuma and the ANC understood this.

But that's not going to happen, and the BoE has limited room to do anything without sending ordinary middle class families into poverty. So instead the markets are going to hammer the £, on and off for two months, then KamiKwazi will report back at the end of November. He's also doubled down and made clear he's committed to further tax cuts (funded by debt?). It's total madness, could end up the most damaging speech in UK political history. The £ is definitely going below the $ and Euro if this holds, but what does a currency crisis look like in a reserve currency? Possible doom loop where the volatility itself creates more volatility? Can't see it helping the City's position.

[Paddington Bear]

Currency crisis seems the wrong word - Sterling isn't pegged and most of our liabilities are Sterling denominated. It "just" makes us poorer as we're an importing nation.

[dpedin]

It's pretty clear that the markets and our international partners have completely lost confidence in the current UK Gov. As others have said they are now dead men walking and haven't the gumption nor credibility to know what to do next. However in all likelihood there is absolutely nothing they can do to come back from this, nothing. A brighter and more principled Gov would resign and/or call a general election but they are neither and will hang onto power as long as they can. Will their bunch of Tory MPs develop a backbone and at least rescue their party by getting rid of Truss and the muppets asap and installing a more moderate bunch of muppets? They need to act fast and decisively. However I fear the dark money men of the Taxpayers Alliance, IEA and other Tufton Street 'think tanks' will be desperate for them to hold onto power as long as possible so as to carry out their instructions. It will be interesting to see who eventually wins the fight but in the interim the UK is going down the toilet. The eventual fallout from all this is going to be pretty explosive.

[fishfoodie]

It's pretty clear that the markets and our international partners have completely lost confidence in the current UK Gov. As others have said they are now dead men walking and haven't the gumption nor credibility to know what to do next. However in all likelihood there is absolutely nothing they can do to come back from this, nothing. A brighter and more principled Gov would resign and/or call a general election but they are neither and will hang onto power as long as they can. Will their bunch of Tory MPs develop a backbone and at least rescue their party by getting rid of Truss and the muppets asap and installing a more moderate bunch of muppets? They need to act fast and decisively. However I fear the dark money men of the Taxpayers Alliance, IEA and other Tufton Street 'think tanks' will be desperate for them to hold onto power as long as possible so as to carry out their instructions. It will be interesting to see who eventually wins the fight but in the interim the UK is going down the toilet. The eventual fallout from all this is going to be pretty explosive.

They had their chance; if they fuck about with another leadership election, the electorate won't forgive them, after they wasted the summer, to hoist this load of shit on the Country !

They need to start making plans for bringing down the Government themselves, & starting to rebuild credibility & trust with the voters, or a new career when the opposition & some rebels bring it down.

If Truss wanted to retain the leadership, she could do a May, & call a GE, to support her "plan". If she loses, she can blame the shit hand she was dealt by the bumblecunt (who probably wouldn't keep his seat). Its a good time to be in opposition.

[_Os_]

Currency crisis seems the wrong word - Sterling isn't pegged and most of our liabilities are Sterling denominated. It "just" makes us poorer as we're an importing nation.

I'm just wondering when a reserve currency has volatility baked in (and mostly downwards) what happens then? Because one of the differences between the £ and an emerging market currency (like the Rand), is foreign nations will hold the £ in their reserve, but will not hold the Rand because of its potential volatility.

The £ is the fourth most held reserve currency (behind the $, Euro, Yen) accounting for 5% of reserves. When do £ reserves get sold (forcing the £ down further)?

[GogLais]

It's pretty clear that the markets and our international partners have completely lost confidence in the current UK Gov. As others have said they are now dead men walking and haven't the gumption nor credibility to know what to do next. However in all likelihood there is absolutely nothing they can do to come back from this, nothing. A brighter and more principled Gov would resign and/or call a general election but they are neither and will hang onto power as long as they can. Will their bunch of Tory MPs develop a backbone and at least rescue their party by getting rid of Truss and the muppets asap and installing a more moderate bunch of muppets?

I find it hard to imagine that the Tory members who installed Truss would go for someone else very different. Mortgages paid off, savings in cash, their energy bills capped even if they can afford to pay more - what’s not to like? Delighted to be wrong.

[_Os_]

They had their chance; if they fuck about with another leadership election, the electorate won't forgive them

It would be better for everyone, including them, if they hit the reset button and take all the political damage asap.

Their method of bullshit and boosterism, isn't going to work now the market has worked out the growth they're promising isn't real.

[fishfoodie]

They had their chance; if they fuck about with another leadership election, the electorate won't forgive them

It would be better for everyone, including them, if they hit the reset button and take all the political damage asap.

Their method of bullshit and boosterism, isn't going to work now the market has worked out the growth they're promising isn't real.

Truss & the ERG saw; "Oven Ready Deal", & "Get Brexit Done", propel a useless sack of shit into #10, & assumed they could pull the same trick with her, & a promise to conjurer economic growth out of hot air.

The money markets weren't buying their bullshit, & their opinion is the one that mattered.

[dpedin]

It's pretty clear that the markets and our international partners have completely lost confidence in the current UK Gov. As others have said they are now dead men walking and haven't the gumption nor credibility to know what to do next. However in all likelihood there is absolutely nothing they can do to come back from this, nothing. A brighter and more principled Gov would resign and/or call a general election but they are neither and will hang onto power as long as they can. Will their bunch of Tory MPs develop a backbone and at least rescue their party by getting rid of Truss and the muppets asap and installing a more moderate bunch of muppets?

I find it hard to imagine that the Tory members who installed Truss would go for someone else very different. Mortgages paid off, savings in cash, their energy bills capped even if they can afford to pay more - what’s not to like? Delighted to be wrong.

The Tory MPs are really stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea then? Stick with Truss and they are doomed to lose seats and power at next election or act quickly and suffer the wrath of the 80,000 Tory Party members who voted her in and the dark money backers. Remember Truss didn't have a whole lot of MP support in leadership election at the beginning but result was manipulated by the ERG to ensure she was on the ballot paper. It will be interesting to see who wins now - Tory MPs or the 80k supporters backed by big dark money backers. Whichever way it goes there will be shit on the walls once the fight starts.

[JM2K6]

They had their chance; if they fuck about with another leadership election, the electorate won't forgive them

It would be better for everyone, including them, if they hit the reset button and take all the political damage asap.

Their method of bullshit and boosterism, isn't going to work now the market has worked out the growth they're promising isn't real.

The problem here is that Kwarteng is a True Believer and he and Truss are in power because of True Believers who will refuse to accept reality, because that would destroy their entire world view. Are there enough of those (and those who benefit financially from the chaos) to prevent yet another leadership contest?

If it was just Truss, she'd u-turn in instant, I reckon.

[yermum]

Lets just get rid of all regulations have a flat rate of tax defund the NHS etc etc.

The survivors that make can agree it was a terrible idea and work out a new social contract.

[dpedin]

Lets just get rid of all regulations have a flat rate of tax defund the NHS etc etc.

The survivors that make can agree it was a terrible idea and work out a new social contract.

You've read 'Sovereign Individual' and 'Britannia Unchained' haven't you?