Stop voting for fucking Tories

[JM2K6]

Why do the English keep voting Tory? Are they really that fucking stupid?

I know the two automatic answers -

1. It’s the media! But we get most of the same media and we don’t vote for them. And if that’s your excuse you’re just saying the entire country is gullible and unable to actually discern truth from bullshit.

2. But Labour are rubbish! But the Tories aren’t any better. Particularly recently. And that suggests they’d rather vote for people who rip them off and neglect them but who are a bit more competent - even though they’ll use that competence to make their lives worse.

Both of these answers just suggest the entire country is fucking stupid.

It's because the entire discourse surrounding the country, its place in the world, the monarchy, the political classes, voting, policies, history, and essentially anything meaningful is fundamentally dishonest.

But honestly if anyone is going to argue that "well, you're just all gullible" because a majority of the population believe the lies, propaganda, half truths, and bullshit spewed day after day after day after day from the government, from the papers, from the news channels, from social media... sorry, you're not as smart as you think you are. This shit works. It's always worked. It works incredibly well. There's nothing special about the Scottish that means it doesn't work as well on them; all it means is it's not as prevalent and there's more counters to it.

Most people don't want to spend too much time thinking about stuff that doesn't interest them. They won't do it if literally everything is telling them the same thing.

[GogLais]

All I'm really picking up from these replies is that people have been conditioned into accepting stereotypes and tired old fashioned reasoning for why things are as they are. Once again the class system doesn't enter into people's heads, because they've been conditioned to think of it as normal, and 'the way of things' when it's a fundamental flaw in British, and in particular English, society.

That suggests you either don’t buy the analysis (fair enough) or have already made a conclusion that won’t be dislodged.

It’s worth considering what links the only two times a government has been removed at the ballot box since 1980 - when homeowners were struggling and many were in negative equity

Aroused my curiosity as I was a house buyer at the time. House prices were level in the early 90s but by 94/95 they were heading upwards. Hard to remember but I don’t recall housing being a big issue in 97, it was more a case of the Tories having outstayed their welcome and Blair/Brown were a decent looking proposition.

[Ovals]

Why do the English keep voting Tory? Are they really that fucking stupid?

I know the two automatic answers -

1. It’s the media! But we get most of the same media and we don’t vote for them. And if that’s your excuse you’re just saying the entire country is gullible and unable to actually discern truth from bullshit.

2. But Labour are rubbish! But the Tories aren’t any better. Particularly recently. And that suggests they’d rather vote for people who rip them off and neglect them but who are a bit more competent - even though they’ll use that competence to make their lives worse.

Both of these answers just suggest the entire country is fucking stupid.

It's because the entire discourse surrounding the country, its place in the world, the monarchy, the political classes, voting, policies, history, and essentially anything meaningful is fundamentally dishonest.

But honestly if anyone is going to argue that "well, you're just all gullible" because a majority of the population believe the lies, propaganda, half truths, and bullshit spewed day after day after day after day from the government, from the papers, from the news channels, from social media... sorry, you're not as smart as you think you are. This shit works. It's always worked. It works incredibly well. There's nothing special about the Scottish that means it doesn't work as well on them; all it means is it's not as prevalent and there's more counters to it.

Most people don't want to spend too much time thinking about stuff that doesn't interest them. They won't do it if literally everything is telling them the same thing.

It's fairly simple in Scotland - Tories are the 'English' party so they don't vote for them.

[Biffer]

Why do the English keep voting Tory? Are they really that fucking stupid?

I know the two automatic answers -

1. It’s the media! But we get most of the same media and we don’t vote for them. And if that’s your excuse you’re just saying the entire country is gullible and unable to actually discern truth from bullshit.

2. But Labour are rubbish! But the Tories aren’t any better. Particularly recently. And that suggests they’d rather vote for people who rip them off and neglect them but who are a bit more competent - even though they’ll use that competence to make their lives worse.

Both of these answers just suggest the entire country is fucking stupid.

It's because the entire discourse surrounding the country, its place in the world, the monarchy, the political classes, voting, policies, history, and essentially anything meaningful is fundamentally dishonest.

But honestly if anyone is going to argue that "well, you're just all gullible" because a majority of the population believe the lies, propaganda, half truths, and bullshit spewed day after day after day after day from the government, from the papers, from the news channels, from social media... sorry, you're not as smart as you think you are. This shit works. It's always worked. It works incredibly well. There's nothing special about the Scottish that means it doesn't work as well on them; all it means is it's not as prevalent and there's more counters to it.

Most people don't want to spend too much time thinking about stuff that doesn't interest them. They won't do it if literally everything is telling them the same thing.

That's kind of my point - I don't believe the two answers I put there either, for exactly that reason. But a heck of a lot of the answers on this thread are kind of similar to one of those two.

[Biffer]

All I'm really picking up from these replies is that people have been conditioned into accepting stereotypes and tired old fashioned reasoning for why things are as they are. Once again the class system doesn't enter into people's heads, because they've been conditioned to think of it as normal, and 'the way of things' when it's a fundamental flaw in British, and in particular English, society.

That suggests you either don’t buy the analysis (fair enough) or have already made a conclusion that won’t be dislodged.

It’s worth considering what links the only two times a government has been removed at the ballot box since 1980 - when homeowners were struggling and many were in negative equity

Aroused my curiosity as I was a house buyer at the time. House prices were level in the early 90s but by 94/95 they were heading upwards. Hard to remember but I don’t recall housing being a big issue in 97, it was more a case of the Tories having outstayed their welcome and Blair/Brown were a decent looking proposition.

Yeah, house prices fell from 89-92 yet the Tories won that election. They went up in 96 and 97 , then the Tories lost the election. Fair enough they took a battering in 2007-8 and Labour lost after that. The Nominal house price went up about 25% in 78-79 before Labour lost that election as well.

[JM2K6]

Why do the English keep voting Tory? Are they really that fucking stupid?

I know the two automatic answers -

1. It’s the media! But we get most of the same media and we don’t vote for them. And if that’s your excuse you’re just saying the entire country is gullible and unable to actually discern truth from bullshit.

2. But Labour are rubbish! But the Tories aren’t any better. Particularly recently. And that suggests they’d rather vote for people who rip them off and neglect them but who are a bit more competent - even though they’ll use that competence to make their lives worse.

Both of these answers just suggest the entire country is fucking stupid.

It's because the entire discourse surrounding the country, its place in the world, the monarchy, the political classes, voting, policies, history, and essentially anything meaningful is fundamentally dishonest.

But honestly if anyone is going to argue that "well, you're just all gullible" because a majority of the population believe the lies, propaganda, half truths, and bullshit spewed day after day after day after day from the government, from the papers, from the news channels, from social media... sorry, you're not as smart as you think you are. This shit works. It's always worked. It works incredibly well. There's nothing special about the Scottish that means it doesn't work as well on them; all it means is it's not as prevalent and there's more counters to it.

Most people don't want to spend too much time thinking about stuff that doesn't interest them. They won't do it if literally everything is telling them the same thing.

That's kind of my point - I don't believe the two answers I put there either, for exactly that reason. But a heck of a lot of the answers on this thread are kind of similar to one of those two.

I guess I was led astray by the idea that if you "fall for" this stuff you're inherently stupid. It isn't that simple. Human beings are complex emotional, social, and intellectual people and what influences their beliefs and opinions is an enormously complex and lucrative industry.

Of course, some people are just inherently very conservative.

[I like neeps]

https://unherd.com/2022/11/meet-britain ... new-right/

You have the boomers shooting up migrant centres and the youngsters go full American Incel. What exactly is the right in Britain up to these days?

[fishfoodie]

https://unherd.com/2022/11/meet-britain ... new-right/

You have the boomers shooting up migrant centres and the youngsters go full American Incel. What exactly is the right in Britain up to these days?

He tells his story about Brexit. He wanted Britain to become “a genuine global trading power again”.

Was there anyone in the audience that had the wit to ask him; "Trade what exactly ?"

The frog faced fuck is the UKIP version of Corbyn; full of moronic shite, which he spouts with complete confidence, because there isn't a snowballs chance of him ever getting into a position of having to deliver on his bullshit; but his bullshit is seductive to those lacking in the critical thinking skills to just ask those basic questions.

[petej]

https://unherd.com/2022/11/meet-britain ... new-right/

You have the boomers shooting up migrant centres and the youngsters go full American Incel. What exactly is the right in Britain up to these days?

The right in UK and USA are victims of their own electoral success and these are the by products.

[fishfoodie]

https://unherd.com/2022/11/meet-britain ... new-right/

You have the boomers shooting up migrant centres and the youngsters go full American Incel. What exactly is the right in Britain up to these days?

The right in UK and USA are victims of their own electoral success and these are the by products.

In the US they do actually get into office, so people get a chance to see there's nothing behind the bluster. The problem with FPTP is that even though they took a significant chunk of the votes, they never got a representative proportion of seats. For their supporters, all this failure did, was cause their grievance to fester, & Brexit was that grievance bursting to the surface in an almighty protest vote, & one where their vote really would count.

Your better off having them elected, but marginalized, because they're at the fringes, & peoples votes are respected, but the reality is that the majority of voters want no part of them. Cameron only had to shift to the right, because once UKIP targeted Tory marginals, he knew that it only took a fractional shift in voting patterns to make a working majority impossible.

Watch & see now how the Greens go thru the same process now, with Labour & the LibDems, as young realize that if they vote their beliefs; & for Green candidates, they might as well flush their ballot down the toilet !

[JM2K6]

Very amused that such a milquetoast critique of the British right has got the Unherd commentariat comparing the site to the Guardian and screaming about Marxism, leftist control of the education system, and open borders.

Absolutely psychotic.

[petej]

Very amused that such a milquetoast critique of the British right has got the Unherd commentariat comparing the site to the Guardian and screaming about Marxism, leftist control of the education system, and open borders.

Absolutely psychotic.

I find it quite funny that this populist part of right wing loves to cast itself as unherd or guido fawkes like they are totally anti establishment and have no voice while being very loud gobshites.

[fishfoodie]

Very amused that such a milquetoast critique of the British right has got the Unherd commentariat comparing the site to the Guardian and screaming about Marxism, leftist control of the education system, and open borders.

Absolutely psychotic.

I find it quite funny that this populist part of right wing loves to cast itself as unherd or guido fawkes like they are totally anti establishment and have no voice while being very loud gobshites.

Same message, different enemy !

Before 2016 it was; Vote Leave, & then we can kick out those Poles, & then there'll be loads of jobs for you.

Now Brexit is done, it's; Vote Tory, & we'll stop those Albanians coming in & ...... eh, stopping you working as a slave in a brothel ?

[_Os_]

Very amused that such a milquetoast critique of the British right has got the Unherd commentariat comparing the site to the Guardian and screaming about Marxism, leftist control of the education system, and open borders.

Absolutely psychotic.

Baker and Hannan both helped make the "Face Eating Leopard Party". Who would've thought that copying and pasting BNP rhetoric and policies for half a decade would create a fascist support base.

Baker has realised this is all a vote loser, and it'll become more of a losing proposition as time passes. If the Tory ceiling among people that aren't white remains about 20%-ish, then around 20 years from now they're going to be getting 8% from 40%-ish of the electorate, meaning they'll have to win about half the remaining votes to get into power. Which is another way of saying if nothing changes they'll go extinct. That's what Baker's new positioning is really about, he/they made a rod for their own backs by denouncing any recognition black people exist and are entitled to hold non-Tory opinions as "woke" (there's comments foaming at the mouth about "BLM Marxism").

Quite a few of their supporters are just crazy, people that variously want: American style Christian conservatism (anti-abortion/pro-death penalty), British Empire 2.0, CANZUK, mass deportations to Rwanda, the belief Brexit hasn't happened yet or if it has it's been betrayed, the end of globalisation, Thatcherism 2.0, UKIP 2.0. And this is all the part they say out loud.

Most of them will become disappointed in politics then give up on it and the rest will end up in an irrelevant BNP/UKIP type outfit. Baker and Hannan would be wise to speed the process up by telling them to fuck off, rather than taking 10+ years to say it. But they're not wise, so a 1980s Labour scenario where they're in opposition and in a civil war is possible.

[C69]

The voice of Conservatism in the NHS votes for strike action.
But for not reaching the 50% threshold of the workforce many more work places would be allowed to strike.

[Tichtheid]

The voice of Conservatism in the NHS votes for strike action.
But for not reaching the 50% threshold of the workforce many more work places would be allowed to strike.

I've just seen a meme elsewhere

Schrödinger's Nurse

Simultaneously too important to strike, but not important enough to pay properly.

[lemonhead]

Lord Wolfson: It’s definitely not the Brexit that I wanted

But of course it is, Simon. Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for.

And we'd have it all by now - whatever the f@ck it was again - if it weren't for those traitorous bastards who sold us down the river. Project Fear etc.

There will always be someone else to blame.

[I like neeps]

Very amused that such a milquetoast critique of the British right has got the Unherd commentariat comparing the site to the Guardian and screaming about Marxism, leftist control of the education system, and open borders.

Absolutely psychotic.

Baker and Hannan both helped make the "Face Eating Leopard Party". Who would've thought that copying and pasting BNP rhetoric and policies for half a decade would create a fascist support base.

Baker has realised this is all a vote loser, and it'll become more of a losing proposition as time passes. If the Tory ceiling among people that aren't white remains about 20%-ish, then around 20 years from now they're going to be getting 8% from 40%-ish of the electorate, meaning they'll have to win about half the remaining votes to get into power. Which is another way of saying if nothing changes they'll go extinct. That's what Baker's new positioning is really about, he/they made a rod for their own backs by denouncing any recognition black people exist and are entitled to hold non-Tory opinions as "woke" (there's comments foaming at the mouth about "BLM Marxism").

Quite a few of their supporters are just crazy, people that variously want: American style Christian conservatism (anti-abortion/pro-death penalty), British Empire 2.0, CANZUK, mass deportations to Rwanda, the belief Brexit hasn't happened yet or if it has it's been betrayed, the end of globalisation, Thatcherism 2.0, UKIP 2.0. And this is all the part they say out loud.

Most of them will become disappointed in politics then give up on it and the rest will end up in an irrelevant BNP/UKIP type outfit. Baker and Hannan would be wise to speed the process up by telling them to fuck off, rather than taking 10+ years to say it. But they're not wise, so a 1980s Labour scenario where they're in opposition and in a civil war is possible.

Agree about Baker - he's a man who has started to realise he has got it all wrong.

Hannan is a gormless melt however.

The problem for all politicians everywhere is everyone is starting to be radicalised. Boomer, younger, doesn't matter the age group everyone thinks they're getting a rum deal.

[JM2K6]

Hannan is definitely a True Believer type. Not to stereotype too much, but it goes well with his religious evangelism

[SaintK]

Never apologise and never admit you were wrong. Oh, and always blame somebody else!

[GogLais]

Never apologise and never admit you were wrong. Oh, and always blame somebody else!

Indeed. He was always going to put the boot in after being trussed but he’s very mistaken if he thinks this makes him look better.

[dpedin]

Never apologise and never admit you were wrong. Oh, and always blame somebody else!

Indeed. He was always going to put the boot in after being trussed but he’s very mistaken if he thinks this makes him look better.

He will be on 'I'm a Celebrity' next year so he can show us whaat a nice man he actually is!

[dpedin]

Tory economic mismanagement continues!

[dpedin]

Another way to look at it?

[Biffer]

So I take it Kwarteng isn't shagging Truss anymore then?

[SaintK]

I wonder if Raab is at it again?

Senior civil servants at the Ministry of Justice were offered “respite or a route out” of the department when Dominic Raab was reappointed last month, amid concerns that some were still traumatised by his behaviour during a previous stint there.
Several sources told the Guardian that about 15 staff from the justice secretary’s private office were taken into a room where departmental chiefs acknowledged they may be anxious about his behaviour and gave them the option of moving roles.
“They’ll try to say he just drives the department very hard to get results. But he frequently belittled and undermined us. It wasn’t just that he was unprofessional, he was a bully. The atmosphere when he came back was terrible.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... ute-out

[Hal Jordan]

There seems to be a preponderance of Tory Ministers who think that acting hard and bullying staff will somehow make up for their stupidity and lack of charisma as a leader.

[tabascoboy]

There seems to be a preponderance of Tory Ministers who think that acting hard and bullying staff will somehow make up for their stupidity and lack of charisma as a leader.

The ones who thought "The Thick of It" was a documentary for training purposes?

[_Os_]

... What threatens to hurt the Tories next, is a party to the right of the Tories (Reform UK etc). It's the only part of the spectrum where the Tories haven't bled yet. I'm guessing a lot of UKIP/Brexit types that vote Tory didn't do so with the expectation the UK could reach its highest ever immigration levels, fight seemingly a losing battle against boat people, and have the most racially diverse government in its history. Quite a lot of recent polls have Reform UK on 5%-7%, and that's with the Tories getting back up to 25%-29%. Which ironically would start putting the Tories back to where they were before Cameron launched the EU referendum to destroy UKIP and consolidate the right wing vote.

Boom! Reform UK now on 9%. Which shows how stupid it was of the Tories to try and appease people who believe impossible things and will never be happy.

[fishfoodie]

... What threatens to hurt the Tories next, is a party to the right of the Tories (Reform UK etc). It's the only part of the spectrum where the Tories haven't bled yet. I'm guessing a lot of UKIP/Brexit types that vote Tory didn't do so with the expectation the UK could reach its highest ever immigration levels, fight seemingly a losing battle against boat people, and have the most racially diverse government in its history. Quite a lot of recent polls have Reform UK on 5%-7%, and that's with the Tories getting back up to 25%-29%. Which ironically would start putting the Tories back to where they were before Cameron launched the EU referendum to destroy UKIP and consolidate the right wing vote.

Boom! Reform UK now on 9%. Which shows how stupid it was of the Tories to try and appease people who believe impossible things and will never be happy.

There must be 6-10 Tory MPs, who've come from UKIP, & who, if those numbers don't turn around by, say the end of summer next year, will take their chances & just join ReformUK, & run for them in the GE. They've nothing to lose, & it's not like they've any loyalty to the Tory party anyway.

[petej]

Be interesting who shifts to rejoin the single market 1st.

I hope the libdems take the center right professional vote and keep the Tories pinned further right and fighting with reform.

[fishfoodie]

Be interesting who shifts to rejoin the single market 1st.

I hope the libdems take the center right professional vote and keep the Tories pinned further right and fighting with reform.

Yeah. LibDems campaign on an explicit, Rejoin policy; Labour will soft soap, with a promise to negotiate a better deal, i.e. something like a Norway deal; & that leaves the Tories with nowhere to go apart from promising the much delayed unicorns.

With that; if Labour get a working majority, but the LibDems do well, then Labour can say it's listening by going for a better solution than Norway.

Whatever happens, there isn't any quick path back into the EU.

[Line6 HXFX]

Mrs stopped being a registered nurse yesterday as it was way too much, and she was losing her mind.

She worked all through covid, on the frontline, she worked all through cutbacks, austerity, has 18 years experience but she has never experienced it this bad before.

So we gave up her pin yesterday.

Litterally couldn't cope with the short staffing, being exhausted and sense of dread going in.
Asking way too much of people.
When you are on anti anxiety medication, just to keep going in your job it isn't brilliant.
Born to be a nurse, my Mrs.
But this shit wasn't nursing.
Seems lots are doing it now too.

[SaintK]

This arsehole should have a 10 foot nose by now.
This one is just absurd

[dpedin]

Mrs stopped being a registered nurse yesterday as it was way too much, and she was losing her mind.

She worked all through covid, on the frontline, she worked all through cutbacks, austerity, has 18 years experience but she has never experienced it this bad before.

So we gave up her pin yesterday.

Litterally couldn't cope with the short staffing, being exhausted and sense of dread going in.
Asking way too much of people.
When you are on anti anxiety medication, just to keep going in your job it isn't brilliant.
Born to be a nurse, my Mrs.
But this shit wasn't nursing.
Seems lots are doing it now too.

That is really sad but I understand her decision. I have many friends who are doing the same for their own well being.

I honestly dont think the public know just how close the NHS is to collapse. I know of one hospital close to me which has 27% qualified nursing vacancies and can't operate all its theatres due to lack of theatre nursing staff. Consultants fighting to try and operate on their own patients and only urgent cases being done - routine surgery all but disappearing. Staff are trying desperately to cover the gaps but after the last 2-3 years are completely knackered and struggling to cope.The Tories have run down the NHS over the last 12 years and failed to train and retain the clinical staff it needs. Complete utter disaster and this winter is going to be awful - it will end up with cancer and urgent cases only. Routine work will be cancelled all over the place. Dont get ill or count on getting your new knee or hip anytime soon! The economic impact will be massive - we have already lost many 100,00's from the workforce due to ill health and this is only going to get worse. No public health = no economic health. I can't work out if the Tories are doing this deliberately or just plain incompetent or both.Barclay has told the Treasury that the NHS doesn't need any more funding - FFS!

[petej]

This arsehole should have a 10 foot nose by now.
This one is just absurd

A lot of the Ukraine policy I think originates from democrat USA, uk security services and mod inertia rather than Rees-Mogg and his fellow ruble taking mates.

Totally ignores Poland and baltics being within in the EU and giving a lot.

[tabascoboy]

Dominic Raab has asked the prime minister to launch an investigation into two formal complaints about his behaviour.

The justice secretary and deputy PM said the complaints related to two previous stints as a cabinet minister.

He added he would "co-operate fully" with any inquiry.

[SaintK]

Dominic Raab has asked the prime minister to launch an investigation into two formal complaints about his behaviour.

The justice secretary and deputy PM said the complaints related to two previous stints as a cabinet minister.

He added he would "co-operate fully" with any inquiry.

Just like London buses. One case of bullying by a cabinet minister comes along and another one follows almost immediately!!

[dpedin]

Dominic Raab has asked the prime minister to launch an investigation into two formal complaints about his behaviour.

The justice secretary and deputy PM said the complaints related to two previous stints as a cabinet minister.

He added he would "co-operate fully" with any inquiry.

Just like London buses. One case of bullying by a cabinet minister comes along and another one follows almost immediately!!

Bullies are always inadequate, incompetent and sad people who will use their positional or delegated power to hide their own inadequacies and shit on people below them in order to make them feel better and to get higher than they actually should up the greasy pole. They are protected by folk who benefit from their patronage or who are afraid that in calling them out they will also be found to be bullies. Turn the blind eye and in the words of the great Sgt Shultz claim 'I know nothing'! Their general incompetence and unsuitability which drives their bullying will also inevitably be the cause of their downfall. It usually happens quickly and damagingly once the dam bursts. Raab is no different, it is just that in the world of politics there are less rules and regulations to find these bullies out and politicians have a ready supply of folk to bully called the Civil Service who are unable to fight back. He, like Truss and Williamson and hopefully Braverman before him, is toast.

[robmatic]

Just like London buses. One case of bullying by a cabinet minister comes along and another one follows almost immediately!!

Might be something to do with the Cabinet being packed full of terrible people.