British Airways.

[Guy Smiley]

FWIW, Singapore Airlines seem to be managing decent service and reliability.

They were one of the main carriers that stayed in regular operation during Covid lockdowns, contracting air freight service throughout SE Asia and Australasia. Perhaps due to that but they seem to have their act together.

[tc27]

Its not just BA sadly I have heard horror stories about Lufthansa, Thai, Qantas, KLM and a number of other airlines considered to have prestigious reputations in the past.


I am not sure what the future holds but its probably the end of anything bigger than an a350-1000 - infect we are going to see narrow bodies put increasingly into long haul service.

[Brazil]

Flew with them this weekend. Delays due to air traffic control, but otherwise fine, and they did comped booze, which was nice as I thought they'd packed that in a while back. By contrast, on my flight back from Nigeria earlier in the year it was the most abysmal business class service I've had. Insisted on the blinds being down so people could sleep, despite it being a daytime flight, food was shit and I had to quite literally beg to be given the alcohol I so richly deserved given a week in Abuja.

[robmatic]

Its not just BA sadly I have heard horror stories about Lufthansa, Thai, Qantas, KLM and a number of other airlines considered to have prestigious reputations in the past.

Turkish Airlines are noticeably declining in quality, but that is mostly because the management is entirely hired based on political affiliation these days.

[petej]

I think the inside of the planes have improved a lot. Flew to boston with virgin recently on a brand new a330-900 and flight back was on an older a330-300. It was noticeable how much more headroom due to better design and quieter the newer plane was. Thought the flights were really good. People are on average a bit taller and a lot fatter than they used to be. Being average height and not over weight i generally don't have a problem unless the person next to me is fat and spilling out of their seat.

[assfly]

Can't be as bad as Turkish Airlines.

Terrible departure slots.
Rude staff. All of them.
Missing connecting flights even if you land on time.
Lost luggage.

[Bullet]

Its not just BA sadly I have heard horror stories about Lufthansa, Thai, Qantas, KLM and a number of other airlines considered to have prestigious reputations in the past.


I am not sure what the future holds but its probably the end of anything bigger than an a350-1000 - infect we are going to see narrow bodies put increasingly into long haul service.

Airbus A321 XLR was seen as replacement for wide bodies with 4700Km range but it's not without issues atm.
Production has been delayed by a year while resolving

[Paddington Bear]

Ultimate first world problem but we seem to have plenty of regular flyers who’ll probably at least sympathise.

As Torq says, airlines have tried a few things to get passengers back and one of them has been to massively extend lounge access. The problem with this is almost without fail the lounges are now far far too busy and noisy. The whole point IMO is for them to be somewhere a bit calmer for the regular traveller, with the exception of Copenhagen I have not been able to take a call/read in peace etc in a lounge since covid. If you can find a table you’ve done well, if it is clean its your lucky day and the chances of being stuck next to people bombing champagne and taking selfies at 8am has risen exponentially. The difference between some of these places and the airport spoons isn’t enormous now.

On airports as fashionable as it is to bash LHR I have genuinely never had a major problem there and I think it stands up as the best of the major European hubs, albeit I never connect through it for obvious reasons.

[Paddington Bear]

Can't be as bad as Turkish Airlines.

Terrible departure slots.
Rude staff. All of them.
Missing connecting flights even if you land on time.
Lost luggage.

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

[tc27]

Its not just BA sadly I have heard horror stories about Lufthansa, Thai, Qantas, KLM and a number of other airlines considered to have prestigious reputations in the past.


I am not sure what the future holds but its probably the end of anything bigger than an a350-1000 - infect we are going to see narrow bodies put increasingly into long haul service.

Airbus A321 XLR was seen as replacement for wide bodies with 4700Km range but it's not without issues atm.
Production has been delayed by a year while resolving

Plenty of A21 LRs already doing Atlantic routes. Airbus cannot make them quickly enough.

[robmatic]

Can't be as bad as Turkish Airlines.

Terrible departure slots.
Rude staff. All of them.
Missing connecting flights even if you land on time.
Lost luggage.

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

It's so big it takes an absolute age to get across.

[Paddington Bear]

Can't be as bad as Turkish Airlines.

Terrible departure slots.
Rude staff. All of them.
Missing connecting flights even if you land on time.
Lost luggage.

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

It's so big it takes an absolute age to get across.

Also having to go through security twice when you factor in distance from the city and traffic

[Blackmac]

I've never seen anything like Marrakech airport. Absolutely beautiful, calm, quiet easy check in hall. You then go through hell trying to get through passport control. We queued for nearly 80 minutes as they seem to take an eternity checking the locals, a few of whom we saw getting rejected. When you eventually get through and get your passport stamped you immediately join another queue to get the stamp checked. Once you get through you get into one of the best departure areas I have ever seen. Comfortable, quiet, great shops and restaurants. The contrast is incredible.

[Sandstorm]

Ultimate first world problem but we seem to have plenty of regular flyers who’ll probably at least sympathise.

As Torq says, airlines have tried a few things to get passengers back and one of them has been to massively extend lounge access. The problem with this is almost without fail the lounges are now far far too busy and noisy. The whole point IMO is for them to be somewhere a bit calmer for the regular traveller, with the exception of Copenhagen I have not been able to take a call/read in peace etc in a lounge since covid. If you can find a table you’ve done well, if it is clean its your lucky day and the chances of being stuck next to people bombing champagne and taking selfies at 8am has risen exponentially. The difference between some of these places and the airport spoons isn’t enormous now.

On airports as fashionable as it is to bash LHR I have genuinely never had a major problem there and I think it stands up as the best of the major European hubs, albeit I never connect through it for obvious reasons.

"If everyone has Elite Status, then no-one has it....." CEO United Airlines 2022

Lounge access is being seriously curtailed again by airlines and credit card issuers, exactly because they're too full these days and the Elites (who actually spend a fortune on flying for business rather than just a holiday twice a year) are bitching.

[Camroc2]

If everyone took 1 or 2 flights a quarter instead of a dozen holidays, BA could probably get you there on time.

First. World. Problem.

Yep


Oh… ER2, the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce?

Ex Ryanair. Qantas are nosediving under his guidance.

He's ex Aer Lingus, not Ryanair.

[assfly]

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

It's mental. It took me about 45 minutes to walk from one gate to the other.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think the inside of the planes have improved a lot. Flew to boston with virgin recently on a brand new a330-900 and flight back was on an older a330-300. It was noticeable how much more headroom due to better design and quieter the newer plane was. Thought the flights were really good. People are on average a bit taller and a lot fatter than they used to be. Being average height and not over weight i generally don't have a problem unless the person next to me is fat and spilling out of their seat.

I'm surprised by that. IIRC 300 and 900 are the same fuselage and so there'd have to be some serious jiggery pokery to create more headroom since the floor is structural and must be the same. These later high bypass engines are quieter.

[Sandstorm]

I think the inside of the planes have improved a lot. Flew to boston with virgin recently on a brand new a330-900 and flight back was on an older a330-300. It was noticeable how much more headroom due to better design and quieter the newer plane was. Thought the flights were really good. People are on average a bit taller and a lot fatter than they used to be. Being average height and not over weight i generally don't have a problem unless the person next to me is fat and spilling out of their seat.

I'm surprised by that. IIRC 300 and 900 are the same fuselage and so there'd have to be some serious jiggery pokery to create more headroom since the floor is structural and must be the same.

Re-designed overhead lockers are the main difference., plus new lighter colours & mood lighting.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think the inside of the planes have improved a lot. Flew to boston with virgin recently on a brand new a330-900 and flight back was on an older a330-300. It was noticeable how much more headroom due to better design and quieter the newer plane was. Thought the flights were really good. People are on average a bit taller and a lot fatter than they used to be. Being average height and not over weight i generally don't have a problem unless the person next to me is fat and spilling out of their seat.

I'm surprised by that. IIRC 300 and 900 are the same fuselage and so there'd have to be some serious jiggery pokery to create more headroom since the floor is structural and must be the same.

Re-designed overhead lockers are the main difference., plus new lighter colours & mood lighting.

The lighting is all the difference!

[Sandstorm]

I'm surprised by that. IIRC 300 and 900 are the same fuselage and so there'd have to be some serious jiggery pokery to create more headroom since the floor is structural and must be the same.

Re-designed overhead lockers are the main difference., plus new lighter colours & mood lighting.

The lighting is all the difference!

Plus the loud pop music on Virgin flights while you board!!

[Calculon]

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

It's mental. It took me about 45 minutes to walk from one gate to the other.

Fortunately, my experience has been completely different. I used Istanbul twice as a hub this year and both times it went extremely smoothly. I was actually really impressed with the new airport, especially compared to the old one that was chaos personified. Both times weren’t that busy so there were loads of seats free and also quiet areas, which is great if you’re poor like me and don’t tend to use the airport lounges. Would take Istanbul as a hub over Heathrow any day. The latter is too much of a shopping centre with an airport attached. Found Turkish airline staff very friendly in Cape town, Istanbul and Tashkent, less so at Heathrow but it was extremely busy.

edit: Also the last time I ate in a restaurant at Heathrow it was not only the worse burger I’ve ever had, but also the most expensive. I put it on expenses but even so…

[Sandstorm]

Istanbul does not work as a hub airport at all, absolutely chaotic however much they’ve spunked on it.

It's mental. It took me about 45 minutes to walk from one gate to the other.

Fortunately, my experience has been completely different. I used Istanbul twice as a hub this year and both times it went extremely smoothly. I was actually really impressed with the new airport, especially compared to the old one that was chaos personified. Both times weren’t that busy so there were loads of seats free and also quiet areas, which is great if you’re poor like me and don’t tend to use the airport lounges. Would take Istanbul as a hub over Heathrow any day. The latter is too much of a shopping centre with an airport attached. Found Turkish airline staff very friendly in Cape town, Istanbul and Tashkent, less so at Heathrow but it was extremely busy.

edit: Also the last time I ate in a restaurant at Heathrow it was not only the worse burger I’ve ever had, but also the most expensive. I put it on expenses but even so…

All Heathrow airport terminals don't have enough chairs. Gatwick S Terminal is even worse!

[Calculon]

Gatwick I remember as being crowded with lots of badly dressed people with tattoos. That was over a decade ago so maybe it has changed since then. Worse UK airport I've been to was Aberdeen, there was so little space we couldn't even get into the one and only airport lounge.

[Paddington Bear]

Gatwick I remember as being crowded with lots of badly dressed people with tattoos. That was over a decade ago so maybe it has changed since then. Worse UK airport I've been to was Aberdeen, there was so little space we couldn't even get into the one and only airport lounge.

Its fine as an airport, just a ballache for those of us north of the river. Stansted is the worst for clientelle of the London airports. Not strictly UK but Guernsey is a horrendous airport to have to spend any time in.

[inactionman]

It's notable how so many people have such wildly varying experiences of airports.

In terms of London, Luton (although a cheek to call it London Luton) was an absolute shambles when I first flew there about 6 years ago, but it seems to have got things mostly sorted since then. Always found Stansted pretty straightforward, it's just miles from London. Heathrow seems to have outgrown itself. City airport was always so easy - straight onto DLR - and pretty cheap if you avoided the commute times, but now Flybe has been resurrected they don't seem to offer that flight from Edinburgh any more.

Norwich 'International' (to be fair, they don't use it in the name) is a fecking shack and pair of stepladders for a control tower. Granted it's been a while since I flew from there, but the security was the size of a janitor's cupboard and the only cafe was perma-shut. The cheeky bastards also insisted I paid £10 towards some airport improvement fund and only informed me of this once actually going through check-in. I couldn't fly without paying the surcharge. Is that even legal?

Also, it's only Loganair from there to Edinburgh - unless you're some oil and gas exec or a subsidised Hebridean it's utterly ruinously expensive.

The only saving grace is it's 15 minutes from my dad's, so no fighting public transport to and from airports - in my experience, that's comfortably the worse part of any flight-based journey.

[Paddington Bear]

It's notable how so many people have such wildly varying experiences of airports.

It’s the same with all transport, I remember having this chat with a bloke I was working with at Network Rail. He was always driven nuts by the ‘why are British trains so much worse than [insert country here]?’ question. Leaving aside there are particular issues here that have got worse since that conversation, his point was that the more often you use a particular service the more likely you are to experience it going wrong, and vice versa.

Likewise the more you’re using that service for everyday activities rather than leisure the more you feel the consequences of delays. I get much more irate when the 7:12 into London gets delayed by 7 minutes than I did when I sat on a non moving service on the West Highland Line for an hour.

[Enzedder]

People are saying the same thing about Qantas, Jetstar and Air New Zealand over on our side of the world.

Clearly, airlines are struggling to achieve anything close to the levels of service and reliability they had pre Covid. According to one account I read last week, anecdotes supposedly sourced from Qantas aircrew suggest that airline is deliberately limiting flight availability, through keeping crews idle on 'standby'... presumably to engineer high demand and justify high prices. That's an emotive argument that appeals to the anti Alan Joyce sentiment rife throughout the customer and staff base although it may have some basis in fact considering the tactics employed under his command over recent years.

Yeah nah, they've had since February to recruit/train up new staff.

Qantas have spectacularly imploded. I only fly them if work is paying

I think staffed realised they were working in an industry that will lay you off at the drop of a hat. Now that there is a labour shortage, they can find a role that has more certainty about it.

I don't travel internationally and my parcels always seem to get to point B in good time so I am in the "don't give a toss" paddock.

[Calculon]

Norwich 'International' (to be fair, they don't use it in the name) is a fecking shack and pair of stepladders for a control tower. Granted it's been a while since I flew from there, but the security was the size of a janitor's cupboard and the only cafe was perma-shut

Reminds me of Port Sudan New International Airport. Shopping facilities consisted of a single tuck shop. Security was a knackered old x ray machine with a cracked tv screen that was switched off. Well, I suspect the machine broke down in the nineties since when I asked our local contact why there wasn't a single hotel in the city with hot water, he told us that everything broke down in the nineties and they haven't been able to find anyone to fix it since. The security guy still insisted we put our luggage through the machine. The lavatory absolutely stank which was actually surprising since Muslims, I mean proper Muslims not fake ones in Termez, tend to have clean loos because of the whole quranic cleanliness thing.

[petej]

I'm surprised by that. IIRC 300 and 900 are the same fuselage and so there'd have to be some serious jiggery pokery to create more headroom since the floor is structural and must be the same.

Re-designed overhead lockers are the main difference., plus new lighter colours & mood lighting.

The lighting is all the difference!

Didn't get back. The lockers have been redesigned and seemed to retract back further over the middle seats and the upper curve of the fuselage was more noticeable. It is probably a few cm and mostly clever lighting.

[Guy Smiley]

People are saying the same thing about Qantas, Jetstar and Air New Zealand over on our side of the world.

Clearly, airlines are struggling to achieve anything close to the levels of service and reliability they had pre Covid. According to one account I read last week, anecdotes supposedly sourced from Qantas aircrew suggest that airline is deliberately limiting flight availability, through keeping crews idle on 'standby'... presumably to engineer high demand and justify high prices. That's an emotive argument that appeals to the anti Alan Joyce sentiment rife throughout the customer and staff base although it may have some basis in fact considering the tactics employed under his command over recent years.

Yeah nah, they've had since February to recruit/train up new staff.

Qantas have spectacularly imploded. I only fly them if work is paying

I think staffed realised they were working in an industry that will lay you off at the drop of a hat. Now that there is a labour shortage, they can find a role that has more certainty about it.

I don't travel internationally and my parcels always seem to get to point B in good time so I am in the "don't give a toss" paddock.

The staff morale issue is entirely valid, I reckon... as you say Enzo, rapid lay offs showed everyone their worth in the eyes of their employers and the response is on the same par.

As for freight... I mentioned SIA earlier, who kept air freight going right through. Others have managed to maintain that service while simple issues like baggage are proving too hard. Again... the recent scandal that erupted after footage of outsourced baggage handlers mistreating bags at Melbourne shows the lack of care that evolves with casualisation and reduction of staff care.

In short... employers treating staff like cattle are reaping the rewards of that.

[inactionman]

I think it goes a bit further than the employers. I know the bank I work at downward-adjusted the credit risk ratings of employees in hospitality and airline/aviation during covid, which won't have helped if you needed to borrow to supplement during furlough

Many of the more employable employees have left the sector for less risky pursuits, hence there's now a significant shortfall across the industry and a reliance upon contingent labour (read: less-than-committed temps).

Similar issues with hospitality, although that's also got more of the double whammy of Brexit.

[Slick]

Norwich 'International' (to be fair, they don't use it in the name) is a fecking shack and pair of stepladders for a control tower. Granted it's been a while since I flew from there, but the security was the size of a janitor's cupboard and the only cafe was perma-shut

Reminds me of Port Sudan New International Airport. Shopping facilities consisted of a single tuck shop. Security was a knackered old x ray machine with a cracked tv screen that was switched off. Well, I suspect the machine broke down in the nineties since when I asked our local contact why there wasn't a single hotel in the city with hot water, he told us that everything broke down in the nineties and they haven't been able to find anyone to fix it since. The security guy still insisted we put our luggage through the machine. The lavatory absolutely stank which was actually surprising since Muslims, I mean proper Muslims not fake ones in Termez, tend to have clean loos because of the whole quranic cleanliness thing.

I went though a tiny airport in, I think Tanzania, where the security guy looked through our bags then went behind a screen, changed his jacket and hat, and became the passport guy. Loved it!

[Chrysoprase]

I went though a tiny airport in, I think Tanzania, where the security guy looked through our bags then went behind a screen, changed his jacket and hat, and became the passport guy. Loved it!

That's great!

Best "airport" I've been through was on one of the Philippine islands (can't remember which one) which was just a grass hut which had no furniture except a table with a radio sitting on it. The runway was a grass strip, but there was a big sign next to it saying "Welcome to <insert island's name here> airport"

@Biffer thanks for the comment on the EDI - Rotterdam route, useful to know that people rate it. For some reason that airline has decided to take January off!

[Biffer]

I think it goes a bit further than the employers. I know the bank I work at downward-adjusted the credit risk ratings of employees in hospitality and airline/aviation during covid, which won't have helped if you needed to borrow to supplement during furlough

Many of the more employable employees have left the sector for less risky pursuits, hence there's now a significant shortfall across the industry and a reliance upon contingent labour (read: less-than-committed temps).

Similar issues with hospitality, although that's also got more of the double whammy of Brexit.

Hospitality has also been mightily fucked, at least in the UK, by the lack of kiwi, aussie and saffer young folk doing the year of travel + work that used to be something of a right of passage. I have a feeling that might start up again in the next year which will help.

[Insane_Homer]

BBC: British Airways: Flights leaving US grounded over technical issue.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64035534

[Chilli]

Just fly with another airline out of another airport.

[fishfoodie]

BBC: British Airways: Flights leaving US grounded over technical issue.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64035534

The way they don't specify the cause of the delay, but mention how it's just long haul flights between the US, & UK makes me speculate its down to the systems that issue security clearance for everyone before the aircraft takes off. Complete ball ache, but there isn't much BA can do about the Yanks creating a shite system.

[Tichtheid]

The airport on the island of Barra

https://www.visitouterhebrides.co.uk/se ... he%20world!


I've never landed there (though I have sailed to Barra)

I've only been on a plane four times in my life - two return journeys, and I don't think I'll be on one again.

[Guy Smiley]

If it's dodgy airport experiences you're after, I've flown in and out of Lukla twice. Overshoot, and you hit a mountain. Undershoot, and you hit a mountain.



There are a number of airlines flying in Nepal. Some might not be quite as well... resourced, as others. I've booked open returns both times as you're never sure of which day you'll come out of the mountains. I'm not, anyway. My first trip up the Kumbhu saw me come down with a bad cough at altitude and I scorched the trails coming back down and out for thick air (on the advice of the medic up at altitude) so I came into the airport mid morning, sweaty as fuck and breathing hard. The guys at my service desk checked my booking and asked me to wait in the departure lounge. I was too scared to take off the light jacket as I thought my stink would have me turfed out. A German guy was berating his young guide because they'd been waiting hours for a flight. My guess is the guide had booked with a 'friend's' airline and they didn't have planes or seats spare. I watched this drama unfold for an hour or so, slowly freezing as my sweat dried and Herr Oberthemountainfuhrer got angrier and more abusive while the poor young guide made phone calls and tried to explain they'd have to wait.

My service desk guy came and grabbed me... with a ticket in his hand. Through here, he says, your bag here please... I was through the gate and walking across the tarmac to a flight out to Kathmandu after just an hour of waiting. Better yet... I was the sole passenger . I could see Herr Oberthemountainfuhrer's face going beetroot red through the windows so I gave him a cheery wave, first from the tarmac and again from my seat as they closed the door behind me.

I love the smell of airfuel. It reminds me of victory.

[Sandstorm]

The airport on the island of Barra

https://www.visitouterhebrides.co.uk/se ... he%20world!


I've never landed there (though I have sailed to Barra)

I've only been on a plane four times in my life - two return journeys, and I don't think I'll be on one again.

If I take your photo, do you believe I’m stealing your soul?