Stop voting for fucking Tories

[SaintK]

How not to get the core farming vote on your side

Thérèse Coffey, the environment secretary, has been booed by a roomful of farmers during a robust question and answer session.

She was responding to NFU president Minette Batters, who said there has been a “market failure” in pork and eggs, with farms going out of business. Readers may have seen empty egg shelves in the supermarkets; this is due to the loss of a million laying hens as high costs and avian flu means farmers have left the industry.

Coffey rather snappily said “there is not a market failure, Minette”, prompting Batters to respond: “Is losing a million hens not a market failure?”

Batters is popular among her members, so this inspired a loud boo.

Extraordinarily, Coffey then took charge of proceedings, cut the NFU president off, and said she wished to take a question from a farm manager from a nearby constituency, Jake Fiennes, and said “it’s not my problem if the NFU cannot start on time”, referencing the fact her session started ten minutes late.

[Sandstorm]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

[C T]

How not to get the core farming vote on your side

Thérèse Coffey, the environment secretary, has been booed by a roomful of farmers during a robust question and answer session.

She was responding to NFU president Minette Batters, who said there has been a “market failure” in pork and eggs, with farms going out of business. Readers may have seen empty egg shelves in the supermarkets; this is due to the loss of a million laying hens as high costs and avian flu means farmers have left the industry.

Coffey rather snappily said “there is not a market failure, Minette”, prompting Batters to respond: “Is losing a million hens not a market failure?”

Batters is popular among her members, so this inspired a loud boo.

Extraordinarily, Coffey then took charge of proceedings, cut the NFU president off, and said she wished to take a question from a farm manager from a nearby constituency, Jake Fiennes, and said “it’s not my problem if the NFU cannot start on time”, referencing the fact her session started ten minutes late.

I believe that she would be out of her depth in a low-mid management meeting in most work places. A cabinet minister.

[GogLais]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

Same. The same debate in the states has baffled me. Having a debate how you support the poor getting ID is understandable

Should be free if you can’t vote without one. Arguably.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

When I have voted, I wander in to the polling station, tell them my name and address and get handed a voting form.

When collecting a package from the post office last month, I was asked for ID for the first time ever.

I guess things are tightening up.

[Mahoney]

Gullies getting absolutely schooled on asylum, but he got his soundbite question in and that's all.that matters.

https://twitter.com/ZoeJardiniere/statu ... _hf-A&s=19

Gullis is an utter shitstain of an MP. To think he was once a school headmaster

He wasn't a headmaster, just head of year 9.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

There's scant evidence of fraudulent voting at polling stations so requiring ID to vote there seems questionable, and it will likely encourage people in lower socio economic groups to not bother voting, and maybe that's the point.

Where we do have fraud in our system is in postal voting, and interestingly if you want to vote without ID you can apply for a postal vote, so the express intent of the change will dissuade on balance some number of poorer people from voting and expand the prospects for fraud in our voting system. Welcome to Tories at work

[sockwithaticket]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

Same. The same debate in the states has baffled me. Having a debate how you support the poor getting ID is understandable

It's covered on the previous page really, it's a solution looking for a problem and the implementation of it, with some types of ID being valid or invalid depending on your age, is nakedly politicised, clearly hoping to exclude some people who are least likely to vote Conservative.

[SaintK]

Gullies getting absolutely schooled on asylum, but he got his soundbite question in and that's all.that matters.

https://twitter.com/ZoeJardiniere/statu ... _hf-A&s=19

Gullis is an utter shitstain of an MP. To think he was once a school headmaster

He wasn't a headmaster, just head of year 9.

Still a complete shitstain mind.

[tabascoboy]

This is it, you can argue that if people can't / won't get voter ID then they are either involved in fraud or wouldn't vote anyway - which is how this is being justified and is currently for purely party political ends.

Whether universal ID card issue to all within a national state on a compulsory or voluntary basis and carrying should be mandatory in all or some circumstances is another issue entirely, especially when it includes biometric data - and IMO this would only be acceptable by the overwhelming "will of the people" ( well, what could go wrong with a referendum, right guys?).

[Mahoney]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

That's a really bad bit of thinking. If you want to argue that there should be a universal ID we all have to have, fine, argue that. At which point I would guess opposition to showing it when voting will be minimal.

But insisting on ID to vote in the absence of a universal ID, and setting it up to ensure that your voters are vastly more likely to have an accepted ID than the opposition's voters, in the absence of any significant evidence of voter fraud, is pure vote suppression and inexcusable.

Particularly as the one form of voting where there is reason to think that voter fraud, or at least heavy voter influence, may be happening is postal votes - which are untouched by this legislation.

[tabascoboy]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

That's a really bad bit of thinking. If you want to argue that there should be a universal ID we all have to have, fine, argue that. At which point I would guess opposition to showing it when voting will be minimal.

But insisting on ID to vote in the absence of a universal ID, and setting it up to ensure that your voters are vastly more likely to have an accepted ID than the opposition's voters, in the absence of any significant evidence of voter fraud, is pure vote suppression and inexcusable.

Particularly as the one form of voting where there is reason to think that voter fraud, or at least heavy voter influence, may be happening is postal votes - which are untouched by this legislation.

And as a point of accuracy "everywhere else" is wrong, many other countries don't have national ID card such as Japan, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, India...

[Sandstorm]

Meh, I (and the rest of the world) am flabbergasted that Brits can wander around for decades without a proper ID. Everywhere else it’s mandatory and everyone just gets one.

If it now means that those same people can’t vote, tough shit.

That's a really bad bit of thinking. If you want to argue that there should be a universal ID we all have to have, fine, argue that. At which point I would guess opposition to showing it when voting will be minimal.

But insisting on ID to vote in the absence of a universal ID, and setting it up to ensure that your voters are vastly more likely to have an accepted ID than the opposition's voters, in the absence of any significant evidence of voter fraud, is pure vote suppression and inexcusable.

Particularly as the one form of voting where there is reason to think that voter fraud, or at least heavy voter influence, may be happening is postal votes - which are untouched by this legislation.

And as a point of accuracy "everywhere else" is wrong, many other countries don't have national ID card such as Japan, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, India...

Fair enough. Although Australia is going through the exact same fuss at the moment around voting and IDs:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... t-proposal

[Guy Smiley]

Fair enough. Although Australia is going through the exact same fuss at the moment around voting and IDs:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... t-proposal

A 2 year old article discussing moves by the Australian version of Tory shitstainism who were turfed out at the last election?

Nah. Australia is not going through the same fuss. It is a tactic embraced by one side of politics as the various parties around the world continue to share the same transparent strategies.

[Guy Smiley]

I just remembered...

Australia has compulsory voting. You register with the AEC on the Electoral Roll... name and address. You're required to update that as needed and comprehensive advertising campaigns roll out before any election is imminent to urge people to do that.

Come voting day and you attend public polling places where a small army check your details against copies of the roll. Your name is crossed out as you register and you are given the polling papers and directed to a booth to enter your vote.

If you're outside your electorate, choose to vote early (early voting booths are available for those who won't be able to attend) or vote by postal ballot, all of those options are catered to through management of the individual details on that Electoral Roll.

Failure to vote usually attracts a small fine and I actually had that issued last time there was a local election as I'd forgotten to remove myself from the Roll when I left the country. Easy to rectify.

It's a simple system that presents no problems, albeit at some cost to the public purse...and the idea the ruling party at the time should try to infer problems is pathetic. More proof of the essential vote rigging agenda that lies behind it.

[Guy Smiley]

But you could easily use another's vote. Say your bro was in Thailand getting a massage or some shit like that

I’m sure you could…. But the system delivers and there are few problems.

[tabascoboy]

Huh? So I presume the new legislation for the Police, Crime, Sentencing & Courts Bill will only be applied selectively and it's okay to protest aggressively and cause nuisance as long as the Government considers it "acceptable"

[Sandstorm]

But you could easily use another's vote. Say your bro was in Thailand getting a massage or some shit like that

I’m sure you could…. But the system delivers and there are few problems.

Yeah but a system where you and to flash your id is safer. It is very odd you have all convinced yourself otherwise. Just give a free passport to everyone on the dole or earning under x. Jobs oxo

That’s Big Brother, bro

[JM2K6]

This is it, you can argue that if people can't / won't get voter ID then they are either involved in fraud or wouldn't vote anyway - which is how this is being justified and is currently for purely party political ends.

Nah, the major point is that the expense and hassle of getting the ID is beyond a lot of people below a certain level of income/social status. There's a reason why voting in this country is as low friction as possible, compared to the insanity of the USA. It's trivial to point out how many people from those brackets are able to vote with no ID.

[_Os_]

I’m sure you could…. But the system delivers and there are few problems.

Yeah but a system where you and to flash your id is safer. It is very odd you have all convinced yourself otherwise. Just give a free passport to everyone on the dole or earning under x. Jobs oxo

That’s Big Brother, bro

This one isn't difficult. Big Brother in this case is a Tory who is purposely trying to distort the vote.

The UK doesn't have a mandatory state issued ID like SA does, it has a mess of multiple different types of ID some of them quite expensive and often multiple different types of ID needed to do anything (bills with address, passport, resident's permit, bank statement, driving licence ... you well know how dumb it is). It's not like SA where the only acceptable type of ID required to vote is the one that's mandatory for everyone.

The UK voting rules are shortly going to be if you're over 60 there's more types of acceptable ID (including bus passes and old people's oyster cards) and if you're young these same types of ID will not be acceptable. So anyone who isn't much interested other than on voting day itself, is young and therefore substantially less likely to vote Tory (Tories poll 10%-20% with under 50s), will be at risk of being unable to vote unless they put in a level of effort well beforehand they don't care enough to make. Mostly this will impact poorer young people who have none of the required ID, the same demographic the Tories claim to be levelling up through Brexit. This all comes after a long-ish period of Tory rule where they've fucked everything they've touched and are on their way out.

The Tories repealed a cross party amendment to widen the amount of acceptable ID to include student IDs, library cards, bank statements etc.

This is not about a UK national ID card, it's about supressing non-Tory voters.

[Biffer]

Yeah but a system where you and to flash your id is safer. It is very odd you have all convinced yourself otherwise. Just give a free passport to everyone on the dole or earning under x. Jobs oxo

That’s Big Brother, bro

This one isn't difficult. Big Brother in this case is a Tory who is purposely trying to distort the vote.

The UK doesn't have a mandatory state issued ID like SA does, it has a mess of multiple different types of ID some of them quite expensive and often multiple different types of ID needed to do anything (bills with address, passport, resident's permit, bank statement, driving licence ... you well know how dumb it is). It's not like SA where the only acceptable type of ID required to vote is the one that's mandatory for everyone.

The UK voting rules are shortly going to be if you're over 60 there's more types of acceptable ID (including bus passes and old people's oyster cards) and if you're young these same types of ID will not be acceptable. So anyone who isn't much interested other than on voting day itself, is young and therefore substantially less likely to vote Tory (Tories poll 10%-20% with under 50s), will be at risk of being unable to vote unless they put in a level of effort well beforehand they don't care enough to make. Mostly this will impact poorer young people who have none of the required ID, the same demographic the Tories claim to be levelling up through Brexit. This all comes after a long-ish period of Tory rule where they've fucked everything they've touched and are on their way out.

The Tories repealed a cross party amendment to widen the amount of acceptable ID to include student IDs, library cards, bank statements etc.

This is not about a UK national ID card, it's about supressing non-Tory voters.

Yeah, old people’s bus passes are acceptable ID but young people’s bus passes aren’t.

Same standard of proof required to get both.

One is acceptable the other isn’t.

Blatant vote rigging to try to make it harder for young people to vote.

[Guy Smiley]

I’m sure you could…. But the system delivers and there are few problems.

Yeah but a system where you and to flash your id is safer. It is very odd you have all convinced yourself otherwise. Just give a free passport to everyone on the dole or earning under x. Jobs oxo

That’s Big Brother, bro

There's no need. I know you guys like to imagine there are scary monsters living in the woodpile but the unpalatable truth for you nutters is that there are no problems as you imagine them with the Australian Electoral Roll. If someone is out of the country, a cross agency check will reveal that and any vote in their name will be invalidated and some sort of please explain will be issued. That's where Australia managed quite well to circumvent fears of a Big Brother style national ID card way back in the 80s... data matching between agencies gives them all the information they need.

The idea of voter fraud is one concocted by conservatives in order to further the agenda outlined in these posts... and you guys have fully subscribed to the Fear.

[Ted.]

I just remembered...

Australia has compulsory voting. You register with the AEC on the Electoral Roll... name and address. You're required to update that as needed and comprehensive advertising campaigns roll out before any election is imminent to urge people to do that.

Come voting day and you attend public polling places where a small army check your details against copies of the roll. Your name is crossed out as you register and you are given the polling papers and directed to a booth to enter your vote.

If you're outside your electorate, choose to vote early (early voting booths are available for those who won't be able to attend) or vote by postal ballot, all of those options are catered to through management of the individual details on that Electoral Roll.

Failure to vote usually attracts a small fine and I actually had that issued last time there was a local election as I'd forgotten to remove myself from the Roll when I left the country. Easy to rectify.

It's a simple system that presents no problems, albeit at some cost to the public purse...and the idea the ruling party at the time should try to infer problems is pathetic. More proof of the essential vote rigging agenda that lies behind it.

More or less the same in NZ, except it's not compulsory here. It's a safe system that is rarely gamed. If your brother is Thailand (what's he doing there?), then you would both potentially have to commit electoral fraud to cast a vote in his stead. However, effectively no more people would vote than are eligible to vote, so in a way, no real harm is done.

[Ted.]

But you could easily use another's vote. Say your bro was in Thailand getting a massage or some shit like that

I’m sure you could…. But the system delivers and there are few problems.

Yeah but a system where you and to flash your id is safer. It is very odd you have all convinced yourself otherwise. Just give a free passport to everyone on the dole or earning under x. Jobs oxo

Not really. You don't get on the electoral roll by simply asking to go on it. You are requested to prove your identity and other details when you first enrol, not dissimilar to getting a drivers licence or passport for the first time.

[tabascoboy]

This is it, you can argue that if people can't / won't get voter ID then they are either involved in fraud or wouldn't vote anyway - which is how this is being justified and is currently for purely party political ends.

Nah, the major point is that the expense and hassle of getting the ID is beyond a lot of people below a certain level of income/social status. There's a reason why voting in this country is as low friction as possible, compared to the insanity of the USA. It's trivial to point out how many people from those brackets are able to vote with no ID.

Sure, I'm just saying how the more right wing nutters ( and there are plenty of those after all) are spinning it.

[dpedin]

This is it, you can argue that if people can't / won't get voter ID then they are either involved in fraud or wouldn't vote anyway - which is how this is being justified and is currently for purely party political ends.

Nah, the major point is that the expense and hassle of getting the ID is beyond a lot of people below a certain level of income/social status. There's a reason why voting in this country is as low friction as possible, compared to the insanity of the USA. It's trivial to point out how many people from those brackets are able to vote with no ID.

Sure, I'm just saying how the more right wing nutters ( and there are plenty of those after all) are spinning it.

I think there are more Tory MPs under investigation in HoC than there have been prosecutions for voter fraud in last few general elections!

[Ted.]

You said no more people would vote than would otherwise but they wouldn't necessarily vote the way the one man one vote would. What's the issue with knowing who is or isn't standing in front of you? Have to say I'm glad we haven't got too caught into that in Ireland though no doubt we will. We are currently getting well stuck into the left right populist shite we had avoided so successfully since the inception of the state.

For a start, the two people would have to collude, so in a way, it is their choice in that regard, but no one is getting their knickers in a twist because it is not a problem. Whether it is our relatively small size, honesty, goodwill to our fellow citizens, who knows, it ain't a problem here, nor in Aus, to my knowledge. It simply isn't necessary and nobody is particularly bothered by it. Mind you, every now and then someone calls for a national ID, but I could not tell you what political persuasion they were except perhaps they probably have a touch of that bigotry thing going on.

Of course, some people are starting to express recently imported notions of constitutional rights, freedum, etc, which would certainly be anti ID. They tend to be conservative or alternative types, smelly anti-vaxxers, malcontents and crims, so I guess there is merit in keeping a close eye on them.

[robmatic]

That’s Big Brother, bro

This one isn't difficult. Big Brother in this case is a Tory who is purposely trying to distort the vote.

The UK doesn't have a mandatory state issued ID like SA does, it has a mess of multiple different types of ID some of them quite expensive and often multiple different types of ID needed to do anything (bills with address, passport, resident's permit, bank statement, driving licence ... you well know how dumb it is). It's not like SA where the only acceptable type of ID required to vote is the one that's mandatory for everyone.

The UK voting rules are shortly going to be if you're over 60 there's more types of acceptable ID (including bus passes and old people's oyster cards) and if you're young these same types of ID will not be acceptable. So anyone who isn't much interested other than on voting day itself, is young and therefore substantially less likely to vote Tory (Tories poll 10%-20% with under 50s), will be at risk of being unable to vote unless they put in a level of effort well beforehand they don't care enough to make. Mostly this will impact poorer young people who have none of the required ID, the same demographic the Tories claim to be levelling up through Brexit. This all comes after a long-ish period of Tory rule where they've fucked everything they've touched and are on their way out.

The Tories repealed a cross party amendment to widen the amount of acceptable ID to include student IDs, library cards, bank statements etc.

This is not about a UK national ID card, it's about supressing non-Tory voters.

Yeah, old people’s bus passes are acceptable ID but young people’s bus passes aren’t.

Same standard of proof required to get both.

One is acceptable the other isn’t.

Blatant vote rigging to try to make it harder for young people to vote.

It's clever in a way, because if you ask people they are instinctively going to be against the idea of voter fraud. But it doesn't stand up to a lot of scrutiny when you consider how logistically difficult it would be to arrange enough instances of in person fraudulent voting to actually affect the typical constituency result. You would need a vast organisation of hundreds of people in each constituency.

If they were genuinely concerned about electoral security, they would be looking at postal voting and election night counting processes.

[Lobby]

You said no more people would vote than would otherwise but they wouldn't necessarily vote the way the one man one vote would. What's the issue with knowing who is or isn't standing in front of you? Have to say I'm glad we haven't got too caught into that in Ireland though no doubt we will. We are currently getting well stuck into the left right populist shite we had avoided so successfully since the inception of the state.

Just because 'vote early and vote often' was at one time advocated by Fianna Fáil representatives, that doesn't mean that we need vote ID in the UK especially when it is being introduced in a blatant attempt at vote rigging.

[_Os_]

A fun 12 minutes of video.

Dominic Cummings used to regularly justify Brexit on the basis it had "ended the far right forever", claiming the EU was fuelling the far right and leaving it would mean they would be very happy forever and ever.

Somewhere back in the thread I posted once the Tories were out of power all their billionaire owned loss making media outlets would start pumping out wall to wall anti-immigrant bullshit and blaming Labour for the 'problem', until the Tory's own record (pre and post Blair/Brown, it's not really true immigration patterns changed from 1997, the change started under Thatcher/Major) is forgotten. It's not unthinkable a BNP clone gets back up to around the 1 million voters it had 10 to 15 years ago. Immigration then dominates everything (not the actual facts about the issue, instead just total stupidity). Labour are made to look as extreme as the BNP on the issue dominating all debate, and the Tories magically become the moderate option. After a decade or two of this the Tories are back in power, but they don't actually care about this issue (or even understand it) and just cynically use it to win support, so immigration increases to historic record breaking levels to boost the economy.

[JM2K6]

The best system is the one that allows the most free and fair vote for the highest possible number of people.

[Sandstorm]

The best system is the one that allows the most free and fair vote for the highest possible number of people.

Be nice if at least 50% turned up to vote.

[tabascoboy]

The best system is the one that allows the most free and fair vote for the highest possible number of people.

Be nice if at least 50% turned up to vote.

The highest General Election turnout since 1918 was 83.9% in 1950, the lowest in recent times 59.4% in 2001. Only the Brexit referendum showed higher than 70% since 1997. Local elections struggle to get much more than 35%.

Which suggests for a thriving democracy we need to be encouraging people to use their right to vote not making it more difficult - of course the broken system of FPTP and the feeling of pointlessness in voting where one party thoroughly dominates doesn't help.

[tabascoboy]

Christ on a bike, is there any more useless a Cabinet Minister than this one right now?

[Hal Jordan]

She genuinely doesn't give a fuck.

The dying days of another Tory run in power. As ever, everything's broken and chronically underfunded, the country's character feels mean-spirited and spiteful, racist cunts are emboldened and the economy is completely fucked. Apparently all Labour's fault.

[sockwithaticket]

More effort was put into trying (and failing) to come up with a comeback than actually address the issue, which is pretty indicative of the Tory approach.

"I had a good one Mr. Speaker". These privileged fucks continue to treat governance as if it's an inconvenience to their common room games.

[Hal Jordan]

The other one that boils my piss is telling female Opposition MPs to "watch their tone".

[dpedin]

More effort was put into trying (and failing) to come up with a comeback than actually address the issue, which is pretty indicative of the Tory approach.

"I had a good one Mr. Speaker". These privileged fucks continue to treat governance as if it's an inconvenience to their common room games.

She must have done a turn for all the Tory boys when she was at Oxford, before she dropped out. Why else would she keep her job?

[Sandstorm]

More effort was put into trying (and failing) to come up with a comeback than actually address the issue, which is pretty indicative of the Tory approach.

"I had a good one Mr. Speaker". These privileged fucks continue to treat governance as if it's an inconvenience to their common room games.

She must have done a turn for all the Tory boys when she was at Oxford, before she dropped out. Why else would she keep her job?

I think you guys are over-estimating the number of Tory MPs who are prepared to step up and join this dysfunctional cabinet every time there's a shuffle.....

[sockwithaticket]

More effort was put into trying (and failing) to come up with a comeback than actually address the issue, which is pretty indicative of the Tory approach.

"I had a good one Mr. Speaker". These privileged fucks continue to treat governance as if it's an inconvenience to their common room games.

She must have done a turn for all the Tory boys when she was at Oxford, before she dropped out. Why else would she keep her job?

I think you guys are over-estimating the number of Tory MPs who are prepared to step up and join this dysfunctional cabinet every time there's a shuffle.....

That's partly by design, following the purge of Brexit non-believers and the 2019 election the current iteration of the Tory part is chock full of acquiescent, non-entities who do whatever the handful of power hungry morons who believe it's their divine right to rule tell them.

I don't think anyone outside of the circle happily playing musical chairs with Cabinet seats over the last few years is really being asked to step up.