2023 Six Nations

[Simian]

The doc was calling for a HIA for nearly a minute.
Jelonch ignored him and joined the line-out, and the ref never saw it.

The doc did the right thing by alerting the ref, whatever side points you can make. Docs quite often call for HIAs without the ref reviewing what may have caused it.

The Scottish docs should ask themselves why the scrumhalf didn't go for a HIA after the headbutt.

James Robson is one of the most respected rugby docs in the world, and is prominent in the safety campaigns. If he didn’t think there was a need for an HIA then I’m absolutely fine with that.

Once left Webster on the pitch when so concussed he was wobbly af and was throwing up. TBRITW had to have Webster removed.

Robson’s great. This idea Scotland fans have that’s he’s begging reproach is a bit much tho. He’s a guy doing his job and sometimes makes mistakes.

[Simian]

Prepared to be wrong on this, but watching the game at the club, did the French physio/doc manage to stop the game and insist the ref team look at the Gilchrist red?

It was a red, no doubt, but what the fuck was that all about? Almost a bit disappointed that Ritchie didn’t lose his shit with the ref about it, seemed an utterly outrageous intervention

It looked at the time that he stopped the game as he was insisting to the ref that Jelonch went off for a HIA after he joined the line out. Perhaps he was doing both?

I think he was just insisting that Jelonch had to go for an HIA because Jelonch was refusing to go. At the same time a replay of the tackle was shown on the big screen in the stadium and it was that rather than the medic that the ref responded to.

TBF the video ref should have picked it up and alerted the ref to it.

This idea that he was playing for a red card is crazy

We need medics to step in and stop play when a player is injured. It’s pretty much their job.

And here we are seeing a medic get slammed when they do that. Crazy. He was doing his job.

[sockwithaticket]

One of these players is Thomas Ramos, the other is Melvyn Jaminet.



Basically, France are perfecting a cloning program to ensure rugby dominance and this is their first success.

[Big D]

Prepared to be wrong on this, but watching the game at the club, did the French physio/doc manage to stop the game and insist the ref team look at the Gilchrist red?

It was a red, no doubt, but what the fuck was that all about? Almost a bit disappointed that Ritchie didn’t lose his shit with the ref about it, seemed an utterly outrageous intervention

No that was for the HIA.

Nah. He was gesticulating an HIA to begin with but the player ignored him 3 times and joined the lineout. He then went and stood next to the ref to stop play starting whilst pointing to his head - he was playing for time and stopping play restarting so the head hit could be reviewed.

As I say, zero problems with the red, but the doc deliberately stopped the game to get it reviewed and that’s not on

The payer ignored the doc. The doc did the right thing.

I'm loathe to criticise Doc Robson but he has questions to answer regarding White not having a HIA.

[GogLais]

You can’t leave us hanging in suspense. What’s a “post March contract”?

My friends sauce at the WRU.
Will let you know if I hear any more

90 Day, no-fault divorce that either party can invoke; & now that Gats has clear sight of the dumpster fire, he's decided that he doesn't want any part of it ??

And AWJ appointed as coach to see us through the RWC. Quite a short term appointment then.

[C69]

Wales need to suck it up and write off this season and probably the next.

Out with the old brigade and start afresh.
Biggar, 1/2 p and AWJ need to retire now.

[dpedin]

Great game and great watch! Ref got all the calls right and we shot ourselves in the foot with slow start. Of course there were mistakes from both teams but that happens when you are trying to play exciting adventurous attacking rugby at this level. Far happier watching teams try and win a game that try and not lose it. It would be easy to pick on one or two mistakes for our defeat - Browns over throw in 77 min for one - but there were bigger mistakes over the 80 mins that didn't help either. With a bit more luck and composure we could have won that game, the French were really rattled, but it was not to be. Should be a cracker against the Oirish?

[Slick]

No that was for the HIA.

Nah. He was gesticulating an HIA to begin with but the player ignored him 3 times and joined the lineout. He then went and stood next to the ref to stop play starting whilst pointing to his head - he was playing for time and stopping play restarting so the head hit could be reviewed.

As I say, zero problems with the red, but the doc deliberately stopped the game to get it reviewed and that’s not on

Believe what you'd like to believe. I do not understand why the ref did not send Jelonch out for an HIA immediately when the doc asked for it.

What is weird is that the doc had to insist 3 times for the ref to pay attention.

In the cold light of day I may review my reading of this.

[SaintK]

Nah. He was gesticulating an HIA to begin with but the player ignored him 3 times and joined the lineout. He then went and stood next to the ref to stop play starting whilst pointing to his head - he was playing for time and stopping play restarting so the head hit could be reviewed.

As I say, zero problems with the red, but the doc deliberately stopped the game to get it reviewed and that’s not on

Believe what you'd like to believe. I do not understand why the ref did not send Jelonch out for an HIA immediately when the doc asked for it.

What is weird is that the doc had to insist 3 times for the ref to pay attention.

In the cold light of day I may review my reading of this.

How many pints in were you?

[Slick]

Believe what you'd like to believe. I do not understand why the ref did not send Jelonch out for an HIA immediately when the doc asked for it.

What is weird is that the doc had to insist 3 times for the ref to pay attention.

In the cold light of day I may review my reading of this.

How many pints in were you?

Wasn't the pints, just got it in my head during the emotion of the game i guess! But seeing as I seem to be in a minority of one on here and across global social media, I may reflect

[robmatic]

In the cold light of day I may review my reading of this.

How many pints in were you?

Wasn't the pints, just got it in my head during the emotion of the game i guess! But seeing as I seem to be in a minority of one on here and across global social media, I may reflect

Personally I'm reserving my cynicism for the pretty efficient work getting the replay of the incident on the big screen in the stadium before play had restarted.

[Jock42]

French doc was bang on imo, it's just a pity it bought time for the French TV dude to key up a replay.

Doc Rob should have pulled White, poor decision.

[SaintK]

In the cold light of day I may review my reading of this.

How many pints in were you?

Wasn't the pints, just got it in my head during the emotion of the game i guess! But seeing as I seem to be in a minority of one on here and across global social media, I may reflect

[Slick]

A new tactic from the French Producers !

Give word to the physio, who then gets the Ref to look for a replay

AAHHAA! found someone who agrees with me! I'm back on the bus!

[inactionman]

Christ, I'm hoping this won't morph into a campaign for neutral TV producers

[Slick]

Christ, I'm hoping this won't morph into a campaign for neutral TV producers

Now we've got momentum!

[GogLais]

Wales need to suck it up and write off this season and probably the next.

Out with the old brigade and start afresh.
Biggar, 1/2 p and AWJ need to retire now.

Needs must but I suspect throwing a bunch of youngsters into a losing team isn’t going to help their development much.

[TheFrog]

Personally I'm reserving my cynicism for the pretty efficient work getting the replay of the incident on the big screen in the stadium before play had restarted.

You thought they were efficient? It took them forever to come with the replay. More than it took them to show Haouas headbutt.

[Jim Lahey]

Have Wales any decent young centres that can create opportunities, coming through?
To me its the 10, 12, 13 axis that is dogshit, and in need of a radical overhaul. And having a functioning lineout.

[Torquemada 1420]

Poor sod

Anthony Jelonch suffers, according to the coach, from a “anterior cruciate ligament rupture of the left knee. “You know the protocol: it’s almost six months of absence, between the operation and rehabilitation“lamented Galthié.

End of the season, therefore, for the Toulouse third-line, who could also miss the next World Cup, in France, which begins on September 8. It would be a terrible blow for the player and for the Blues.

Yes. He had been huge recently. Sad.
Hope he recovers well.

Pretty typical eh? Having been a disappointment ever since his stellar tour to Aus, this 6N he's actually looked like the player he promised to be when at Castres. Genuine sympathy for him (pity it wasn't Ntamack instead!) but, as I've said before, he and Cros are so similar, it really isn't a problem for the team.

[GogLais]

Have Wales any decent young centres that can create opportunities, coming through?
To me its the 10, 12, 13 axis that is dogshit, and in need of a radical overhaul. And having a functioning lineout.

It actually looks half decent at centre - Hawkins and Grady, Joe Roberts at Scarlets, Llewelyn Cardiff (off to Gloucester I think), Kieron Williams at Ospreys and there’s a lad called Eddie James who looked pretty good in the last ten minutes for the Scarlets recently.
10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

[Biffer]

Have Wales any decent young centres that can create opportunities, coming through?
To me its the 10, 12, 13 axis that is dogshit, and in need of a radical overhaul. And having a functioning lineout.

It actually looks half decent at centre - Hawkins and Grady, Joe Roberts at Scarlets, Llewelyn Cardiff (off to Gloucester I think), Kieron Williams at Ospreys and there’s a lad called Eddie James who looked pretty good in the last ten minutes for the Scarlets recently.
10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

The problem Wales will have if things go the way they seem to be going is the problem we had / have for a long time - young guys coming through the system and being used to losing a lot more than winning. That becomes habitual and takes a great deal of effort to break.

[Ovals]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

[C69]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

Probably where they deserve to be.

[Ovals]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

Probably where they deserve to be.

I think Wales have the troops to win this particular encounter. If they watched how England snuffed Italy out - they'll get their kicking game right and use their very good Lineout and get the rolling maul going. Wales did defend reasonably well against England, and Italy will be without one of thei most incisive weapons, Capuozzo.

[Ovals]

Capuozzo was fairly anonymous v France. They have a bit more about them than just him

Do you mean France or Ireland ?

Either way - he's a big loss to their team.

[CM11]

Christ, I'm hoping this won't morph into a campaign for neutral TV producers

TV production is done by a Six Nations production team. It's already neutral.

[laurent]

Capuozzo was fairly anonymous v France. They have a bit more about them than just him

Do you mean France or Ireland ?

Either way - he's a big loss to their team.

Was he playing us?

"You" attempted to make a French Royalty trophy out of him ...

[GogLais]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

Top, yes TOP, to 13th in four years would be some achievement.

[Biffer]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

Top, yes TOP, to 13th in four years would be some achievement.

Top seed in their world Cup grouo

[GogLais]

Jeez, if Wales lose to Italy by 16 points or more (unlikely) they will drop to 13th in the Rankings - behind Italy, Samoa and Georgia

Top, yes TOP, to 13th in four years would be some achievement.

Top seed in their world Cup grouo

Words fail.

[fishfoodie]

10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

I think he's showing promise, but I think he illustrated a reason why the failure of the regions is, & has, hurt the National side long term.

Years, & years ago, BOD & others said that the HEC was important because it was a level above the leagues, & closer to International level than the week in, week out games.

I think Irelands improvement can be linked to the regular participation in the HEC, of the Provinces, & then they got into a virtuous cycle, where players wanted to play in those HEC games, & pushed themselves into contention for those games, & thus got seen by the National coach.

For Wales, they're basically relying on players in the Premiership etc, because the ones who stay in Wales are never tested at that next level, & how the hell do you pick players for International level rugby, when all you have to go on is their league performances ?

[Biffer]

10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

I think he's showing promise, but I think he illustrated a reason why the failure of the regions is, & has, hurt the National side long term.

Years, & years ago, BOD & others said that the HEC was important because it was a level above the leagues, & closer to International level than the week in, week out games.

I think Irelands improvement can be linked to the regular participation in the HEC, of the Provinces, & then they got into a virtuous cycle, where players wanted to play in those HEC games, & pushed themselves into contention for those games, & thus got seen by the National coach.

For Wales, they're basically relying on players in the Premiership etc, because the ones who stay in Wales are never tested at that next level, & how the hell do you pick players for International level rugby, when all you have to go on is their league performances ?

It's more than that though. BOD did for Ireland what Hogg and later Russell are doing for Scotland. Young players coming through have had ten years now with Scotland that they're not treated as the big thing we can build a team around, they've come into a side with a special talent who can win games, and learnt that a games can be won. And then they realise that they can win games too. And once you've got ten players who think that way you start to win games. And then you get a squad who think it, and academy guys who think it. Wales are about to enter a period where they don't have anyone of that calibre. So every 20 year old who has a good game in Urc against a big team will be the saviour, and god knows that'll be far worse in Wales than it was in Ireland and Scotland. That'll set expectations on young guys that are unfair, and they'll fail because of it. We saw it over and over, so did Ireland in the eighties and nineties. Wales need a proper generational talent to come through. Wales had several arrive at the same time about ten years ago and it won them championships because they married up with Shaun Edwards. But at the moment they have nothing. Biggar can't do that role, neither can Josh Adams. Everyone else is too old or not talented enough

[fishfoodie]

10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

I think he's showing promise, but I think he illustrated a reason why the failure of the regions is, & has, hurt the National side long term.

Years, & years ago, BOD & others said that the HEC was important because it was a level above the leagues, & closer to International level than the week in, week out games.

I think Irelands improvement can be linked to the regular participation in the HEC, of the Provinces, & then they got into a virtuous cycle, where players wanted to play in those HEC games, & pushed themselves into contention for those games, & thus got seen by the National coach.

For Wales, they're basically relying on players in the Premiership etc, because the ones who stay in Wales are never tested at that next level, & how the hell do you pick players for International level rugby, when all you have to go on is their league performances ?

It's more than that though. BOD did for Ireland what Hogg and later Russell are doing for Scotland. Young players coming through have had ten years now with Scotland that they're not treated as the big thing we can build a team around, they've come into a side with a special talent who can win games, and learnt that a games can be won. And then they realise that they can win games too. And once you've got ten players who think that way you start to win games. And then you get a squad who think it, and academy guys who think it. Wales are about to enter a period where they don't have anyone of that calibre. So every 20 year old who has a good game in Urc against a big team will be the saviour, and god knows that'll be far worse in Wales than it was in Ireland and Scotland. That'll set expectations on young guys that are unfair, and they'll fail because of it. We saw it over and over, so did Ireland in the eighties and nineties. Wales need a proper generational talent to come through. Wales had several arrive at the same time about ten years ago and it won them championships because they married up with Shaun Edwards. But at the moment they have nothing. Biggar can't do that role, neither can Josh Adams. Everyone else is too old or not talented enough

yeah I completely agree you need some of those totem players, but I was more saying that you get better by testing yourself against better players, & even if you lose, you still get a better idea of where you stand & you get to watch how class players operate ... & you learn !

Leinster got shellacked regularly in Europe for years, but they learnt, especially from their provincial foes in Munster !

The likes of Dragons are so far behind the rest of the URC, that even if they have a promising young OH, how do they measure their own performance, when they lineout against Leinsters 4th choice, or Glasgows 3rd choice, or whatever ?

If they get into the HEC, or the Parker pen, & they head down to Toulon, they'll at least know they'll face a serious atmosphere, & maybe an ex-AB OH, with a pack that weighs as much as a railway car full of coal.

If they keep their head there, it'll show a damn sight more than a win against Zebre on the one occasion they were allowed 70 minutes of rugby.

The hottest fire makes the best steel; & the dilution & under performance of the Welsh teams has put the fire out.

[robmatic]

I think he's showing promise, but I think he illustrated a reason why the failure of the regions is, & has, hurt the National side long term.

Years, & years ago, BOD & others said that the HEC was important because it was a level above the leagues, & closer to International level than the week in, week out games.

I think Irelands improvement can be linked to the regular participation in the HEC, of the Provinces, & then they got into a virtuous cycle, where players wanted to play in those HEC games, & pushed themselves into contention for those games, & thus got seen by the National coach.

For Wales, they're basically relying on players in the Premiership etc, because the ones who stay in Wales are never tested at that next level, & how the hell do you pick players for International level rugby, when all you have to go on is their league performances ?

It's more than that though. BOD did for Ireland what Hogg and later Russell are doing for Scotland. Young players coming through have had ten years now with Scotland that they're not treated as the big thing we can build a team around, they've come into a side with a special talent who can win games, and learnt that a games can be won. And then they realise that they can win games too. And once you've got ten players who think that way you start to win games. And then you get a squad who think it, and academy guys who think it. Wales are about to enter a period where they don't have anyone of that calibre. So every 20 year old who has a good game in Urc against a big team will be the saviour, and god knows that'll be far worse in Wales than it was in Ireland and Scotland. That'll set expectations on young guys that are unfair, and they'll fail because of it. We saw it over and over, so did Ireland in the eighties and nineties. Wales need a proper generational talent to come through. Wales had several arrive at the same time about ten years ago and it won them championships because they married up with Shaun Edwards. But at the moment they have nothing. Biggar can't do that role, neither can Josh Adams. Everyone else is too old or not talented enough

yeah I completely agree you need some of those totem players, but I was more saying that you get better by testing yourself against better players, & even if you lose, you still get a better idea of where you stand & you get to watch how class players operate ... & you learn !

Leinster got shellacked regularly in Europe for years, but they learnt, especially from their provincial foes in Munster !

The likes of Dragons are so far behind the rest of the URC, that even if they have a promising young OH, how do they measure their own performance, when they lineout against Leinsters 4th choice, or Glasgows 3rd choice, or whatever ?

If they get into the HEC, or the Parker pen, & they head down to Toulon, they'll at least know they'll face a serious atmosphere, & maybe an ex-AB OH, with a pack that weighs as much as a railway car full of coal.

If they keep their head there, it'll show a damn sight more than a win against Zebre on the one occasion they were allowed 70 minutes of rugby.

The hottest fire makes the best steel; & the dilution & under performance of the Welsh teams has put the fire out.

I'm a bit less convinced about the value of Europe with the current format of the Heineken Cup, because the group games don't have as much riding on them anymore.

Knockout rugby is the thing, both in Europe and the URC. At least, the regions need to be getting themselves into the playoff positions in the URC because then the other teams will respect them more during the regular season as well. It's a tougher season when the stronger teams are taking you seriously and playing more of the first choices against you.

[JM2K6]

It's a little strange to be saying that the HEC is the answer when Munster were going on epic runs and Ireland were still shit. Leinster ended up producing a rare group of talent with an excellent pathway and Irish rugby put everything into that translating to the national team - it's not rocket science.

Between 2005 and 2012, Munster and Leinster won 5 of the available 7 HEC titles between them. During that period, Wales won 3 Grand Slams and a further 6N title in 2013. They also smashed Ireland in the 2011 world cup quarter final. In 2007, Ireland didn't get get out of their pool. In 2018, Ireland won a grand slam while Leinster won the HEC - hooray, some correlation! Ireland then got absolutely killed at the world cup - losing to Japan in the weakest group then getting annihilated by the All Blacks in the QF.

Wales have continually shown that European club rugby is not even important as a driver of international success. And there's more than a strong whiff of hyperbole and revisionism about some of the claims being made about the greatness of Irish rugby & where success was bred (ampersand just for you)

[sturginho]

Capuozzo out for a few weeks with a neck injury from all the high tackles...

[Paddington Bear]

It's a little strange to be saying that the HEC is the answer when Munster were going on epic runs and Ireland were still shit. Leinster ended up producing a rare group of talent with an excellent pathway and Irish rugby put everything into that translating to the national team - it's not rocket science.

Between 2005 and 2012, Munster and Leinster won 5 of the available 7 HEC titles between them. During that period, Wales won 3 Grand Slams and a further 6N title in 2013. They also smashed Ireland in the 2011 world cup quarter final. In 2007, Ireland didn't get get out of their pool. In 2018, Ireland won a grand slam while Leinster won the HEC - hooray, some correlation! Ireland then got absolutely killed at the world cup - losing to Japan in the weakest group then getting annihilated by the All Blacks in the QF.

Wales have continually shown that European club rugby is not even important as a driver of international success. And there's more than a strong whiff of hyperbole and revisionism about some of the claims being made about the greatness of Irish rugby & where success was bred (ampersand just for you)

It is a FACT that whichever side appears to be the best in the 6N at present has the best system and everyone else should adopt it. Was a fun month last year hearing everyone talk about the JIFF system

[JM2K6]

It's a little strange to be saying that the HEC is the answer when Munster were going on epic runs and Ireland were still shit. Leinster ended up producing a rare group of talent with an excellent pathway and Irish rugby put everything into that translating to the national team - it's not rocket science.

Between 2005 and 2012, Munster and Leinster won 5 of the available 7 HEC titles between them. During that period, Wales won 3 Grand Slams and a further 6N title in 2013. They also smashed Ireland in the 2011 world cup quarter final. In 2007, Ireland didn't get get out of their pool. In 2018, Ireland won a grand slam while Leinster won the HEC - hooray, some correlation! Ireland then got absolutely killed at the world cup - losing to Japan in the weakest group then getting annihilated by the All Blacks in the QF.

Wales have continually shown that European club rugby is not even important as a driver of international success. And there's more than a strong whiff of hyperbole and revisionism about some of the claims being made about the greatness of Irish rugby & where success was bred (ampersand just for you)

It is a FACT that whichever side appears to be the best in the 6N at present has the best system and everyone else should adopt it. Was a fun month last year hearing everyone talk about the JIFF system

Very "should Australian cricket adopt the county system" vibes indeed

[GogLais]

10s not so sure - there’s Costelow, not quite proved himself it yet. Also Will Read at Dragons could come through. All pretty inexperienced atm.

I think he's showing promise, but I think he illustrated a reason why the failure of the regions is, & has, hurt the National side long term.

Years, & years ago, BOD & others said that the HEC was important because it was a level above the leagues, & closer to International level than the week in, week out games.

I think Irelands improvement can be linked to the regular participation in the HEC, of the Provinces, & then they got into a virtuous cycle, where players wanted to play in those HEC games, & pushed themselves into contention for those games, & thus got seen by the National coach.

For Wales, they're basically relying on players in the Premiership etc, because the ones who stay in Wales are never tested at that next level, & how the hell do you pick players for International level rugby, when all you have to go on is their league performances ?

Welsh teams do experience European rugby, they just don’t get very far in it. It’s a bit chicken and egg/success breeds success. I always come back to the late 2010sin these debates - I don’t know whether the talent that would be at its peak now wasn’t there or whether WG wasn’t bothered about developing it.