The Official English Rugby Thread

[troglodiet]

Didn't watch the game, just saw the score.

Ouch, I actually feel sorry for you Poms.



The only positive is that this didn't happen against Ireland. This bored would've been unbearable for months, if not years.

[sockwithaticket]

Didn't watch the game, just saw the score.

Ouch, I actually feel sorry for you Poms.



The only positive is that this didn't happen against Ireland. This bored would've been unbearable for months, if not years.

There're only a couple of regulars on here, so it probably would've been just about tolerable. Though I suppose the swarm might've popped in from the other place just to gloat.

Your commiserations are appreciated.

[Hal Jordan]

I think one thing that has evidently hampered Borthwick is that he basically took over someone else's team and has limited ability to burn it down and start again, coupled with the fact that he had been exclusively concentrating on Leicester and whoever their next opponent was.

That's why I understand the Cole selection, with Stuart injured he basically smashed the glass and brought out someone who he knows inside out. Same with JVP.

It doesn't help that some stalwarts have dropped off a cliff and their replacements are either way too green or don't seem to be able to step up.

[inactionman]

Sometimes the bored itself puts it more succinctly than I could

[Ovals]

Maybe this has something to do with it.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3349850938611213

Should a training session ever leave players that knackered. Some of them could barely make it up the stairs.

[notfatcat]

Maybe this has something to do with it.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3349850938611213

Should a training session ever leave players that knackered. Some of them could barely make it up the stairs.

That's immediately after a competitive Watt Bike session. Nothing unusual in not having much use of your legs for the following 20 minutes..

[Paddington Bear]

Appreciate not the immediate issue, but I wonder how these performances affect the commercial side of the game. AIUI commercial/sponsorship deals broadly follow world cup cycles, which would mean a lot of the current ones were entered into with the World Cup runners up who looked to be on an upward path. If I were Honda et al I'd be pretty fucked off with what I've got in return, and suspect that the next set of deals will be marked down a bit.
This is before we get to ticket sales. We know they were sluggish for this 6N and the autumn, and they only sold out for Italy by giving away lots of tickets to clubs and schools. People paid the best part of £200 a ticket yesterday, I suspect we may well see voting with feet which has fairly serious financial ramifications for the game.
This already happened for cricket - the Lords' test last year failed to sell out at £100+ a ticket, thankfully for the ECB their side then proceeded to reinvent the game with some absolute top tier entertainment. I don't think there's any prospect of the same happening in rugby.

[Kawazaki]

What do we all reckon Borthwick will do against Ireland? Will he bring back players he's dropped, stick with the same team or tinker a bit?

He's backed himself into a corner really though he does have my sympathies as it's not all completely within his power to select who he wants. And, he inherited a complete goatfuck from Jones.

If I was Borthwick, I'd give the squad a load of rest this week, maybe run through some light unopposed work running phase patterns and set-piece strike moves but plenty of rest. Plenty of analysis and getting players to take responsibility for their performance or lack of required too though.

My team to play Ireland:

1. Genge
2. George
3. Stewart
4. Ribbans
5. Chessum
6. Willis
7. Earl
8. B. Vunipola
9. Mitchell
10. Farrell
11. Watson
12. Lawrence
13. Marchant
14. OHC
15. Arundell

16. Walker
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Itoje
20. Ludlam
21. JVP
22. Smith
23. Malins

[el capitan]

The scenes when the team sheet for this week reads:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi

[JM2K6]

Largely the same again with whatever change is enforced if Lawrence is broken. Slade needs to go though. Happy for Farrell to play 12 as a 12 (which we actually saw signs of yesterday!)

No point making mass changes, you just lose the cohesion and that was basically the best team we could put out.

[Tichtheid]

0-0 at Glaws after 25 minutes

The home side are picking Leicester’s pocket at the breakdown with ease

[Paddington Bear]

Best 0-0 I’ve ever seen.

Re: England, I’d send them on the piss for a day and give them a light week. There’s a decision to be made with guys like Dombrandt - does he see an England future for him? If yes give him another crack, if no try something else.

[tc27]

I would review every breakdown we got monstered on (thats almost all).

[sockwithaticket]

Old man Brown breaks the stalemate with a 1m pick and drive.

[sockwithaticket]

Wait 55 minutes for any kind of score and now it's 2 in quick succession.

[Paddington Bear]

First time Youngs has sniped effectively in a long old time. Good try and you’d think game over

[sockwithaticket]

Thought i'd watch the spectacle of running rugby that Quins - Bristol was sure to be rather than the 6N match. So far Bris are living up to that assumption, Quins look pretty woeful. Would expect much better even with their handful of absentees.

[sockwithaticket]

JMK, I would not recommend catching up with this game...

[JM2K6]

JMK, I would not recommend catching up with this game...

I've been keeping an eye on the stats + the Quins board. The stats say we've been fucking awful. The board says we've been fucking awful but it's all the ref's fault. C'est la vie.

[Niegs]

Good little thread, this... (article's several years old, but some interesting comments)

[JM2K6]

Good little thread, this... (article's several years old, but some interesting comments)

Yup, as I referred to the other day. He essentially sabotaged us. The single most toxic person to have been part of English professional rugby.

[Uncle fester]

The scenes when the team sheet for this week reads:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi

What's wrong with Ford? If I were English, I'd be picking him.

[sockwithaticket]

The scenes when the team sheet for this week reads:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi

What's wrong with Ford? If I were English, I'd be picking him.

I think it's more of a collective thing with that selection. Youngs is (obviously) past his best, Ford hasn't yet demonstrated the kind of form he had before his achilles injury, Farrell is Farrell and Tuilagi is a shadow of his former self.

[el capitan]

The scenes when the team sheet for this week reads:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi

What's wrong with Ford? If I were English, I'd be picking him.

As said it's more about the combo, that after all that we'd be back to how we lined up 4 years ago. (and I actually think there is a possibility all of them are in the 23 next weekend).

Ford, if and when he is back at 100%, would be my 10. Tbh having seen every other combo we've served up in the last couple of years I'd unfortunately have to say Farrell at 12 next to him is still probably the best option - especially when it's next stop World Cup.

[SaintK]

Will Collier (how much has he played this season) and Jonny Hill called up in forwards
Lawrence out and Guy Porter called up.

[JM2K6]

Collier has yet to play after a long injury layoff. He's a very very good scrummager and a potential alternative to Dan Cole but the timing seems daft - he can't possibly be a serious option for the next match and he needs time with his club.

Guy Porter... hoo boy.

[SaintK]

Collier has yet to play after a long injury layoff. He's a very very good scrummager and a potential alternative to Dan Cole but the timing seems daft - he can't possibly be a serious option for the next match and he needs time with his club.

Guy Porter... hoo boy.

Collier is another player appallingly treated by Jones.

[Line6 HXFX]

It's like the sport of Rugby is conducive to terrible things like CTE and brain damage from concussion, and you play it form more than ten years, you is fucked. Slow witted, depressed, blinkered, and recycling players into coaches after their brain is completely fucking mangled is a daft idea, as the sea of CTE they all swim in creeps up and cuts their balls off.

Are there any former boxers who made great boxing coaches?

[inactionman]

Will Collier (how much has he played this season) and Jonny Hill called up in forwards
Lawrence out and Guy Porter called up.

Not surprised, and sadly typical that anyone in great (eta: if that's not over-egging it, I'm including club form as well here) form gets crocked. At least he's made a good impression for when he returns.

Any word on Dan Kelly's recovery? (apols if missed in thread)

[Tichtheid]

It's like the sport of Rugby is conducive to terrible things like CTE and brain damage from concussion, and you play it form more than ten years, you is fucked. Slow witted, depressed, blinkered, and recycling players into coaches after their brain is completely fucking mangled is a daft idea, as the sea of CTE they all swim in creeps up and cuts their balls off.

Are there any former boxers who made great boxing coaches?

Freddie Roach, possibly the best boxing coach of all time, but you are now going to point out his Parkinson's disease

[JM2K6]

Please don't encourage the troll to post in this thread.

[Tichtheid]

Please don't encourage the troll to post in this thread.

Fair.

[sockwithaticket]

Unless the forwards drastically improve, it's a bit moot anyway, but I suspect our midfield is going to be horribly uncomplementary unless Borthers pulls a fast one and suddenly decides Marchant is worth including.

Smith - Tuilagi - Marchant or Smith - Farrell - Machant might do something, but we'll probably end up with Farrell - Porter - Slade or something.

[pjm1]

The VERY best I can hope for next weekend is an absolute slugfest in the rain. Hopefully the Irish injuries will recover, but even with them down a few players, we need them to be making all the handling errors, rather than us for a change. Can someone get Dombrandt those sticky gloves you get?

I really don't see our backs making much of a difference. By the time it gets to them, the opposition forwards have done the damage on our ball, slowing to shit, and/or not having to commit numbers at the breakdown and making repeated dominant tackles, forcing shite box kicks off 9. On their ball, our backs seem to prefer missing tackles than making them, pinching in when the attack is clearly spreading to shift the ball wide quickly, or drifting off your man and letting someone race through the hole.

It's all bollocks.

[sockwithaticket]

Just noticed that Dingwall, freshly minted Prem player of the month, has been ditched. Presumably in favour of the just back from injury Porter, which is a depressing window into selection philosophy.

[inactionman]

Just noticed that Dingwall, freshly minted Prem player of the month, has been ditched. Presumably in favour of the just back from injury Porter, which is a depressing window into selection philosophy.

Dingwall is deceptively strong, he doesn't look massive but I've seen him put in a good number of reducers. Not that I'd advocate a meathead but a good physical defence would be a decent thing for England to have, going on last few showings.

I've already written off the French game as a bad memory but I'm still wincing over the van der Merwe try, he's a powerful lad but he's not exactly ickle-levels of agility and no-one laid a glove.

[Ovals]

Just noticed that Dingwall, freshly minted Prem player of the month, has been ditched. Presumably in favour of the just back from injury Porter, which is a depressing window into selection philosophy.

I hope the RFU start playing hardball with PRL for the next Agreement which is due in 2024. If PRL want to keep the ban on foreign based players, they need to give the England manager free rein on who is picked for ENgland squads.

[Ovals]

I'm still finding it very odd how comprehensively our Forwards were beaten up. They looked leaden footed and there seemed to be a total lack of energy.

The French side didn't manshame the Italians or the Scots up front - both sides that we, at least, matched for physicality in the forwards. In fact it was our forwards that did the business against Italy.

There's just something that doesn't entirely add up - especially after a fallow week which should have seen our players at their freshest..............

[sockwithaticket]

Just noticed that Dingwall, freshly minted Prem player of the month, has been ditched. Presumably in favour of the just back from injury Porter, which is a depressing window into selection philosophy.

Dingwall is deceptively strong, he doesn't look massive but I've seen him put in a good number of reducers. Not that I'd advocate a meathead but a good physical defence would be a decent thing for England to have, going on last few showings.

I've already written off the French game as a bad memory but I'm still wincing over the van der Merwe try, he's a powerful lad but he's not exactly ickle-levels of agility and no-one laid a glove.

I really, really want to see if he can make the step up (ideally in a white shirt, the Scots are sniffing around...). Like you say, he's a great defender, especially for his size, but he also runs great lines and has good hands. Seems at home in either centre position too.

[sockwithaticket]

Just noticed that Dingwall, freshly minted Prem player of the month, has been ditched. Presumably in favour of the just back from injury Porter, which is a depressing window into selection philosophy.

I hope the RFU start playing hardball with PRL for the next Agreement which is due in 2024. If PRL want to keep the ban on foreign based players, they need to give the England manager free rein on who is picked for ENgland squads.

Tbh I suspect that this has more to do with who Borthwick perceives to be the better player for what he wants to do rather than any restrictions around how many players can be picked for the squad. So far Dingwall's been sent back to Saints every week, which suggested there wasn't much interest in using him this tournament even before bringing Porter in instead.