Stop voting for fucking Tories

[inactionman]

I was brought up in a New Town after my family were bombed out on London in WWII. There used to be a shedload of decent engineering and manufacturing jobs there, and plenty of decent facilities, but it's all Poundland distribution centres now and the town centre is a comparative wasteland.

I just can't bear going back to see it, but the most painful thought is that it just didn't need to be that way- there as no real practical reason why we couldn't sustain the high quality industrial work, it mainly came down to finance and lack of government investment.

I still spare a thought for the people in the old Welsh mining towns - Merthyr and the like. I went to Big Pit a few years back and chatted to one of the ex-miner tour guides. He was gutted that his kids simply couldn't live in the area with lack of opportunity and investment after Thatcher just pulled the plug, although he did admit to some slight comfort in that his son wouldn't be getting emphysema.

Thatcher was right to look to end coal mining, but utterly, hopelessly, negligently wrong in the way it was done -and the damage is still there to see.

Yeah, if you have reason to stay a few days in most English towns in the Midlands or the North, they're all very similar - dead industrial buildings on the outskirts, high streets populated by hairdressers, coffee shops, poundshops and charity shops. These communities were shat on 30-40 years ago and have had no help to try and get them back on their feet since. It can be done with the right political will and investment - East Germany is the example we should all look to.

It could be done, but we will focus all our investment on London instead.

Edinburgh doesn't do badly, to be fair.

I's say the issue is more to do with sectors, although the choice of sectors to back is is pretty much nailed on to benefit the landed gentry and City financiers and not the poor railway factory worker from Crewe.

[Paddington Bear]

I remember all the pro tory stuff years ago, before they got in, from people who had deliberately forgotten, or who didn't know or who didn't live it. They seemed so charming these tories, we looked so unreasonable hating them so.
I am from one of the most economically deprived areas specifically because the Tories deliberately fucked us.
They looked us in the eye, measured us and fucked us. " All this heavy industry is crowding out modern, well paid industry, which will arrive here as soon as we get rid of it", 40 years later only 19% of those jobs have been replaced, with zero hour contract low skilled shit.
When you live in it, work in this dystopia, volunteer in it..see your friends die, or get addicted or become severely mentally ill from economic despair, and you learn and understand that the tories did all this deliberately. It is hard to imagine how anyone could do this to people.
But in the eighties we needed many more poor people, turns out of everyone has a decent living and a job.. inflation goes out of control.
The UK was an extremely poverty dependent country. When you realise this, realise if you have a few Bob, you need to treat people with nothing like shit, as your wealth is literally dependent on their penury and sufferring.
So their answer was of course, mass unemployment to increase the value of the pound on the money markets. Thatcher was a huge fan of the wacko Milton Friedman and his Monetarist ideas. So this was an act of deliberate and extreme callousness and vandalism that made the Post War invasion planning of Iraq look like thoughtful, well meaning and considered. Throwing millions of great, decent hardworking Britosh people into poverty and hopelessness was probably decided on a drunken coked up weekend. No party, no people that evil should ever be in power again.

Imagine, you destroy a countries industry (my whole town is only here because of Iron and steel, before this there was forests, wolves, the odd farm) , encourage them to go on the sick because there are no jobs, and never will be..and then you finger jab at them, scream at them, and call them lazy, knowing the English middle classes are so fucking resent'tardedthey would actually buy it.

It's exactly like hitting someone with your car backing over them for good measure, getting out and screaming "get up you lazy cunt".
This from people who have known nothing but priviledge all their lives.
Their whole ideology is just a pyramid scheme, and like all Pyramid Schemes the first thing they tell you is " the system is perfect"..so if you don't believe in it or don't benefit, you are not workihg hard enough or are lazy scum. They have created a perfect system, that protects their wealth and priviledge.. whilst taking yours and blaming you.

Think the root cause of nations problems is we can never understand how fucking evil, desperate, greedy, they are, and it always takes us by surprise, because we are not like them.
They are not like us.
They have to lie.
They hate us because we don't.

I was brought up in a New Town after my family were bombed out on London in WWII. There used to be a shedload of decent engineering and manufacturing jobs there, and plenty of decent facilities, but it's all Poundland distribution centres now and the town centre is a comparative wasteland.

I just can't bear going back to see it, but the most painful thought is that it just didn't need to be that way- there as no real practical reason why we couldn't sustain the high quality industrial work, it mainly came down to finance and lack of government investment.

I still spare a thought for the people in the old Welsh mining towns - Merthyr and the like. I went to Big Pit a few years back and chatted to one of the ex-miner tour guides. He was gutted that his kids simply couldn't live in the area with lack of opportunity and investment after Thatcher just pulled the plug, although he did admit to some slight comfort in that his son wouldn't be getting emphysema.

Thatcher was right to look to end coal mining, but utterly, hopelessly, negligently wrong in the way it was done -and the damage is still there to see.

Yeah, if you have reason to stay a few days in most English towns in the Midlands or the North, they're all very similar - dead industrial buildings on the outskirts, high streets populated by hairdressers, coffee shops, poundshops and charity shops. These communities were shat on 30-40 years ago and have had no help to try and get them back on their feet since. It can be done with the right political will and investment - East Germany is the example we should all look to.

The Germans have let a lot of smaller Eastern towns die, understanding they needed to concentrate investment in more viable cities. Are we willing to do that?

[Paddington Bear]

This is really, really dumb. Our numeracy skills as a nation are embarrassing and it holds us back across the board. There’s no reason you can’t learn maths and be creative, and it is pretty insulting to people’s intelligence to pretend otherwise.

Of course most of us hated maths at school - it’s dull! 99% of school is dull and grinding, the question is whether it prepares you for later life or not. The English school system generally does a poor job of it, and improving our numerical skills would be a step to changing that.

[inactionman]

Excellent.

For all of us who think not polluting rivers and seas should be a relatively obvious thing to do, we've now got Therese on the case.

In just under an hour, the environment secretary, Thérèse Coffey, will launch the government’s snappily titled “plan for cleaner and more plentiful water”, which is ministers’ latest attempt to clean up rivers and seas across England.

I'm glad she's not too busy to do this, at least.

Must be very time-consuming, all this doing sweet FA.

[Biffer]

I was brought up in a New Town after my family were bombed out on London in WWII. There used to be a shedload of decent engineering and manufacturing jobs there, and plenty of decent facilities, but it's all Poundland distribution centres now and the town centre is a comparative wasteland.

I just can't bear going back to see it, but the most painful thought is that it just didn't need to be that way- there as no real practical reason why we couldn't sustain the high quality industrial work, it mainly came down to finance and lack of government investment.

I still spare a thought for the people in the old Welsh mining towns - Merthyr and the like. I went to Big Pit a few years back and chatted to one of the ex-miner tour guides. He was gutted that his kids simply couldn't live in the area with lack of opportunity and investment after Thatcher just pulled the plug, although he did admit to some slight comfort in that his son wouldn't be getting emphysema.

Thatcher was right to look to end coal mining, but utterly, hopelessly, negligently wrong in the way it was done -and the damage is still there to see.

Yeah, if you have reason to stay a few days in most English towns in the Midlands or the North, they're all very similar - dead industrial buildings on the outskirts, high streets populated by hairdressers, coffee shops, poundshops and charity shops. These communities were shat on 30-40 years ago and have had no help to try and get them back on their feet since. It can be done with the right political will and investment - East Germany is the example we should all look to.

The Germans have let a lot of smaller Eastern towns die, understanding they needed to concentrate investment in more viable cities. Are we willing to do that?

If you visit those towns in England, they're already dead.

Every region of East Germany now has a higher GDP per head than the UK. From a position of being a bankrupt former soviet state 30 years ago.

[Biffer]

Yeah, if you have reason to stay a few days in most English towns in the Midlands or the North, they're all very similar - dead industrial buildings on the outskirts, high streets populated by hairdressers, coffee shops, poundshops and charity shops. These communities were shat on 30-40 years ago and have had no help to try and get them back on their feet since. It can be done with the right political will and investment - East Germany is the example we should all look to.

It could be done, but we will focus all our investment on London instead.

Edinburgh doesn't do badly, to be fair.

I's say the issue is more to do with sectors, although the choice of sectors to back is is pretty much nailed on to benefit the landed gentry and City financiers and not the poor railway factory worker from Crewe.

Yes and no. The major infrastructure investments have all come out of the Scottish budget. Even the new Forth crossing wasn't deemed important enough to be critical National Infrastructure. But widening the A14 was.

[inactionman]

It could be done, but we will focus all our investment on London instead.

Edinburgh doesn't do badly, to be fair.

I's say the issue is more to do with sectors, although the choice of sectors to back is is pretty much nailed on to benefit the landed gentry and City financiers and not the poor railway factory worker from Crewe.

Yes and no. The major infrastructure investments have all come out of the Scottish budget. Even the new Forth crossing wasn't deemed important enough to be critical National Infrastructure. But widening the A14 was.

It's not really infrastructure - it's more the entire level of support offered to industry, much of which is dependent upon central government incentive and direction. For example, the ability of e.g. SME companies in engineering to raise finance and investment - there is little incentive for banks to lend, given the focus upon the broader fund management typically seen in the City which influences the expected speed and volume of return on investment (engineering will typically return lower and over longer term, so there's typically lesser appetite). I worked for Jaguar Land Rover after it was bought by Tata and they were experiencing a good degree of growth and job creation* - it's important to note that the engineers didn't change, what changed was the degrees and levels of investment in the business itself and in new car programmes.

Infrastructure is an enabler, but a slightly different question.


* eta - I'm referring to a period about 7 ir 8 years ago - I appreciate JLR isn't finding things easy at the moment but all auto industry is suffering, and JLR in particular is quite exposed to Chinese luxury consumers' spending.

[Biffer]

Edinburgh doesn't do badly, to be fair.

I's say the issue is more to do with sectors, although the choice of sectors to back is is pretty much nailed on to benefit the landed gentry and City financiers and not the poor railway factory worker from Crewe.

Yes and no. The major infrastructure investments have all come out of the Scottish budget. Even the new Forth crossing wasn't deemed important enough to be critical National Infrastructure. But widening the A14 was.

It's not really infrastructure - it's more the entire level of support offered to industry, much of which is dependent upon central government incentive and direction. For example, the ability of e.g. SME companies in engineering to raise finance and investment - there is little incentive for banks to lend, given the focus upon the broader fund management typically seen in the City which influences the expected speed and volume of return on investment (engineering will typically return lower and over longer term, so there's typically lesser appetite). I worked for Jaguar Land Rover after it was bought by Tata and they were experiencing a good degree of growth and job creation* - it's important to note that the engineers didn't change, what changed was the degrees and levels of investment in the business itself and in new car programmes.

Infrastructure is an enabler, but a slightly different question.


* eta - I'm referring to a period about 7 ir 8 years ago - I appreciate JLR isn't finding things easy at the moment but all auto industry is suffering, and JLR in particular is quite exposed to Chinese luxury consumers' spending.

Yeah, right enough.

The Germans have an advantage through things like the Landesbanks (SP?), regional banks with limits on their growth so they have to lend within their region. There have been some attempts to do things like Scottish Investment Bank and Green Investment Bank but as soon as they reach a certain size in the UK, there'll be a clamour to sell them off and then they'll just revert to more traditional models.

[inactionman]

Yes and no. The major infrastructure investments have all come out of the Scottish budget. Even the new Forth crossing wasn't deemed important enough to be critical National Infrastructure. But widening the A14 was.

It's not really infrastructure - it's more the entire level of support offered to industry, much of which is dependent upon central government incentive and direction. For example, the ability of e.g. SME companies in engineering to raise finance and investment - there is little incentive for banks to lend, given the focus upon the broader fund management typically seen in the City which influences the expected speed and volume of return on investment (engineering will typically return lower and over longer term, so there's typically lesser appetite). I worked for Jaguar Land Rover after it was bought by Tata and they were experiencing a good degree of growth and job creation* - it's important to note that the engineers didn't change, what changed was the degrees and levels of investment in the business itself and in new car programmes.

Infrastructure is an enabler, but a slightly different question.


* eta - I'm referring to a period about 7 ir 8 years ago - I appreciate JLR isn't finding things easy at the moment but all auto industry is suffering, and JLR in particular is quite exposed to Chinese luxury consumers' spending.

Yeah, right enough.

The Germans have an advantage through things like the Landesbanks (SP?), regional banks with limits on their growth so they have to lend within their region. There have been some attempts to do things like Scottish Investment Bank and Green Investment Bank but as soon as they reach a certain size in the UK, there'll be a clamour to sell them off and then they'll just revert to more traditional models.

Definitely. The Landesbank approach gives local industry greater access to funding, with more localised investment imperatives. We just don't have equivalent.

There are other things, too numerous to mention, that we don't seem to have much interest in. Just an example, which I raise as I recall you're engaged in research - UK University research is world class, but we just aren't effective in spinning out, in particular outside of the redbricks. My feeling, which is dated as I left the University sector more than 10 years ago, is that we bodge fundamental research (the sort e.g. EPSRC would fund) and applied research which should take these early findings and exploit, particularly in conjunction with (and often directed by) industry. You end up with a good researcher trying to start up a spin-off, against all odds, or a more industrial researcher not having any fundamental insight to exploit. Germany, by way of contrast, has things like Max Planck institutes for fundamental research, and Fraunhofer Institutes which are specifically industry-funded* for direct, industry-facing applied research and development. The remits are clear, the funding routes clear, the industry expectation clear.


* eta (again - I should proof-read) - the Fraunhofers are state-owned and baseline funded but they rely upon industry funding for the bulk of their work. They are amazing- I visited the Berlin one, and there was a 3D cove you could step inside and pretend to assemble a car.

[Biffer]

It's not really infrastructure - it's more the entire level of support offered to industry, much of which is dependent upon central government incentive and direction. For example, the ability of e.g. SME companies in engineering to raise finance and investment - there is little incentive for banks to lend, given the focus upon the broader fund management typically seen in the City which influences the expected speed and volume of return on investment (engineering will typically return lower and over longer term, so there's typically lesser appetite). I worked for Jaguar Land Rover after it was bought by Tata and they were experiencing a good degree of growth and job creation* - it's important to note that the engineers didn't change, what changed was the degrees and levels of investment in the business itself and in new car programmes.

Infrastructure is an enabler, but a slightly different question.


* eta - I'm referring to a period about 7 ir 8 years ago - I appreciate JLR isn't finding things easy at the moment but all auto industry is suffering, and JLR in particular is quite exposed to Chinese luxury consumers' spending.

Yeah, right enough.

The Germans have an advantage through things like the Landesbanks (SP?), regional banks with limits on their growth so they have to lend within their region. There have been some attempts to do things like Scottish Investment Bank and Green Investment Bank but as soon as they reach a certain size in the UK, there'll be a clamour to sell them off and then they'll just revert to more traditional models.

Definitely. The Landesbank approach gives local industry greater access to funding, with more localised investment imperatives. We just don't have equivalent.

There are other things, too numerous to mention, that we don't seem to have much interest in. Just an example, which I raise as I recall you're engaged in research - UK University research is world class, but we just aren't effective in spinning out, in particular outside of the redbricks. My feeling, which is dated as I left the University sector more than 10 years ago, is that we bodge fundamental research (the sort e.g. EPSRC would fund) and applied research which should take these early findings and exploit, particularly in conjunction with (and often directed by) industry. You end up with a good researcher trying to start up a spin-off, against all odds, or a more industrial researcher not having any fundamental insight to exploit. Germany, by way of contrast, has things like Max Planck institutes for fundamental research, and Fraunhofer Institutes which are specifically industry-funded for direct, industry-facing applied research and development. The remits are clear, the funding routes clear, the industry expectation clear.

Yeah, I am involved in that, and we're trying to find more ways to do it but fuck me it's hard to get traction. The last Labour government started trying to put some of this in motion, studying the Fraunhofers and trying to start something similar in the UK. There's now a Fraunhofer UK, but it only has one centre, in Glasgow for photonics, which has been really successful, but then the Tories came in and basically it was 'we can't be doing anything too German' so they changed to the Catapult model instead. Some of the catapults are good and some are fucking useless. But all round we need more of these RTOs (Research and Technology Organisations - independent not-for-profit research centres that bridge the gap between academia and industry) across many sectors and regions of the UK. There are sectors we can make a real difference in; Space, Quantum Tech, Energy, High value manufacturing, Photonics, Biotech, Pharma and there are multiple others including Food and Drink. All of these RTOs should work on a broadly 1/3-1/3-1/3 funding model, equal parts of income from Government support, competitive grants and industry (and here's the key, they need to be rigid about that model, in the UK we flex that way too much), and additionally supported to take on double the number of graduates, apprentices etc they need to develop the skills base required across industry. The Return on Investment on government spending from this model is massively higher than most other government investments.

However governments in the UK are not into long term investments, they want something shiny to be photographed next to.

[Camroc2]

Nah. It's compulsory here as well and of course all the hemp weaving krusty cunts want more dance and bean rubbing but facts are some work is hard

What is happened in Ireland is that all those who did Arts courses in University are all surprised that 5 years after graduation their pals who did stem subjects are employed in high paying jobs, instead of temping, or doing waiting or barrista work as they are.

I think ythat school kids are getting the message.

[Biffer]

Look I am cool with the Arts and all the jazz. Most of my favourite artists tell a story of being immensely stupid/unmotivated in school and found solace in music etc. Facts are fuck all make it in the Arts and Pegg is saying give them even less opportunities than they would already have. Anyway as I noted whether ot not you are good at its irrelevant. Some work is hard and some of it you will be shit at. As decent a lesson as there is. Hence why the nerdy birds were made climb up the wooden climbing frames in the gym hall

There are around 3 million people employed in arts and creative sectors in the UK. It contributes over £100billion to the UK economy.

More importantly it's the very definition of how purely financial measures of societal development are bullshit. If you earn double the amount of money but there is no music, no TV, no film, no theatre, no concerts, no creativity at all in society, your quality of life will be dogshit.

It's the very definition of non monetary societal value.

[C69]

More grubby lobbying scandals and agreeing to leak new proposed legislation.

Blackpool doesn't deserve such an MP.

[_Os_]

Look I am cool with the Arts and all the jazz. Most of my favourite artists tell a story of being immensely stupid/unmotivated in school and found solace in music etc. Facts are fuck all make it in the Arts and Pegg is saying give them even less opportunities than they would already have. Anyway as I noted whether ot not you are good at its irrelevant. Some work is hard and some of it you will be shit at. As decent a lesson as there is. Hence why the nerdy birds were made climb up the wooden climbing frames in the gym hall

There are around 3 million people employed in arts and creative sectors in the UK. It contributes over £100billion to the UK economy.

More importantly it's the very definition of how purely financial measures of societal development are bullshit. If you earn double the amount of money but there is no music, no TV, no film, no theatre, no concerts, no creativity at all in society, your quality of life will be dogshit.

It's the very definition of non monetary societal value.

Not to mention that if you've built your economy on services like the UK has, then it would be incredibly stupid to go after non-STEM subjects. There's also a classification issue, what some think are humanities subjects may in fact be a BSc.

Humanities type subjects are an excellent choice for someone with real ability in them, they'll end up managing those that did the hard STEM subjects. If someone is brilliant at reading vast amounts of information and writing reports, they'll be wasted in something with a weak language component.

AI is the big threat. Anyone with only a STEM background, who just did it for a meal ticket and isn't actually that exceptional at it, should be really worried and start getting skilled in something on some higher ground. A lot of tech jobs are actually just "can you do this complex tedious task, which is valuable mainly because not many people have the patience to pursue this highly stressful career, before you completely burnout". AI is going to take out a whole swathe of white collar jobs this decade, those basically just doing sums look most in danger.

[C69]

Scott Benton has now been suspended, this really is the tip of the iceberg for the sleaze prick.

[fishfoodie]

Scott Benton has now been suspended, this really is the tip of the iceberg for the sleaze prick.

It sounds like the rats are now rather skittish & only the complete clots will get caught by scams like this

Several MPs ignored the email while one recognised that the job was likely to breach parliamentary rules banning paid lobbying. Another, Craig Whittaker, initially agreed to a meeting but then pulled out saying he thought the company wasn’t genuine and mentioned “negative press this last week from bogus companies scamming high-profile MPs with job offers”. The campaign group Led by Donkeys had just published secretly recorded videos showing Matt Hancock and other MPs discussing their fees for a fake job. Whittaker told this newspaper he was exploring opportunities for after his retirement as an MP at the next general election.

Scott Benton, however, was only too happy to meet.

https://archive.is/OZVHp#selection-1633.0-1637.50

[Blackmac]

This is really, really dumb. Our numeracy skills as a nation are embarrassing and it holds us back across the board. There’s no reason you can’t learn maths and be creative, and it is pretty insulting to people’s intelligence to pretend otherwise.

Of course most of us hated maths at school - it’s dull! 99% of school is dull and grinding, the question is whether it prepares you for later life or not. The English school system generally does a poor job of it, and improving our numerical skills would be a step to changing that.

Are we talking Math or Arithmetic though. When I was brought up they were completely different subjects. I was an aeronautical engineer. I used Arithmetic all the time, math irregularly. Math is useless to 99% of the population whereas Arithmetic is essential.

[C69]

So Bad Enoch is going all Culture Wars on us now.
Obsession with gender and safe spaces etc is remarkable

[fishfoodie]

So Bad Enoch is going all Culture Wars on us now.
Obsession with gender and safe spaces etc is remarkable

She's not the only one shamelessly mimicking the qanon bollox trotted out by the GOP nutters

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics ... ls-4092959

Its shows the high opinion the Tories have of the critical thinking skills of the average English voter, & the sad part is theyre probably right !


.... it's just as well the economy is fucked, as otherwise they might still win

[Paddington Bear]

This is really, really dumb. Our numeracy skills as a nation are embarrassing and it holds us back across the board. There’s no reason you can’t learn maths and be creative, and it is pretty insulting to people’s intelligence to pretend otherwise.

Of course most of us hated maths at school - it’s dull! 99% of school is dull and grinding, the question is whether it prepares you for later life or not. The English school system generally does a poor job of it, and improving our numerical skills would be a step to changing that.

Are we talking Math or Arithmetic though. When I was brought up they were completely different subjects. I was an aeronautical engineer. I used Arithmetic all the time, math irregularly. Math is useless to 99% of the population whereas Arithmetic is essential.

Maths is useful for building cognitive and problem solving skills which have very wide usages. Both also are very useful ‘soft’ skills for life, being numerate makes life a hell of a lot easier, the same principle applies to being highly literate.

[tabascoboy]

Any hopes that the local Tories would consider Braverman has gone too far even for them while she seeks a new seat due to redrawn boundaries dashed


Meanwhile she's now having a go at Pakistan

[_Os_]

Not to mention that if you've built your economy on services like the UK has, then it would be incredibly stupid to go after non-STEM subjects. There's also a classification issue, what some think are humanities subjects may in fact be a BSc.

Humanities type subjects are an excellent choice for someone with real ability in them, they'll end up managing those that did the hard STEM subjects. If someone is brilliant at reading vast amounts of information and writing reports, they'll be wasted in something with a weak language component.

AI is the big threat. Anyone with only a STEM background, who just did it for a meal ticket and isn't actually that exceptional at it, should be really worried and start getting skilled in something on some higher ground. A lot of tech jobs are actually just "can you do this complex tedious task, which is valuable mainly because not many people have the patience to pursue this highly stressful career, before you completely burnout". AI is going to take out a whole swathe of white collar jobs this decade, those basically just doing sums look most in danger.

I said I agreed with you regarding the value of the Arts. God loves all creatures including singers and comedians. However making young people do hard stuff that they don't much like is important

I think you've got me confused with someone else, I haven't commented previously on this?

SA has compulsory maths and two language subjects to the end of high school. Making people do things they're not actually good at, and by that age they can understand they're not good at it, is a bit different from making people do things that are hard and they dislike. Part of the learning process is things being hard, but if someone has been doing something for years and it's still hard it's either them or the teacher (and they're probably stuck with the teacher regardless). There's a large cohort that leave school in SA, with essentially no skills and no clue about the direction they're heading. Lumping maths onto them hasn't helped.

My suspicion is that basically it's a similar story to SA. There's a known issue with education, so make them do maths. But where is the funding for the additional maths teachers? If a school is under performing does adding more maths help? Is it too expensive for most to get a good education (and in the UK, especially after high school level)? Is there a culture of learning generally in society, is it highly valued, is teaching a highly prestigious profession?

I think the big thing is going to be re-skilling people through life, it's probably advanced economies like the UK where this will be most important. There's a bit of an issue if doing that in adulthood is expensive and there's no general culture of continuous learning.

[Ymx]

Labour hit rock bottom

Especially given their own handling at local level of grooming gangs.

But they’ve the nerve to come out with this …

[C69]

Labour hit rock bottom

Especially given their own handling at local level of grooming gangs.

But they’ve the nerve to come out with this …

So these posters are lies ?

[Ymx]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

[C69]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.

[GogLais]

Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.

[ASMO]

Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.

Using legislation created by the government

[Zig]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

It's a shameful accusation, there should be laws against it.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Whether as an accusation it's right or wrong, and I'd sit firmly in the camp saying it's wrong, it's a bloody asinine thing to do because it's so OTT it can be easily defended with indignation. Having done it they should have said sorry, someone got carried away we apologise and we'll withdraw all such content, not tried to defend it. Now apart from anything else it's just bad politics and could easily cost them votes.

I happen to think you wouldn't be far wrong if instead you made the claim about the Tory party being pro rape, because their actions over and over support racists and harm victims. But even there it'd be a hell of a brazen claim to actually straight up make in public, you'd need something rather more nuanced to make the same point without outrage at the claim being the story rather than the actual point. And the scope to be more nuanced in this or labelling Sunak as they have is vast.

[SaintK]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.

It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.

[C69]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.

It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.

Oh it's crass and shouldn't be allowed no doubt
It's a fight to the bottom.

[GogLais]

Funny, I thought judges sentenced people.

Using legislation created by the government

Labour peer Lord Ahmed of Rotherham jailed for child sex offences in 2022. I mean I’ll still almost certainly vote Labour but this sort of stuff makes me less rather than more likely.

[dpedin]

Defend?
Libel?

I don't support Labour and think Starmer lacks conviction and purpose.
It's no worse than Tory publicity about Saville and Starmer, tbh it's a damn sight more accurate.

It's crass and straight out of the Tory CCHQ playbook as usually promoted by the likes of the Mail and Telegraph and voiced by the likes of Gullis and Anderson.
They must have "focus grouped" it to c heck how it would land with the voting public? Not sure how it will be seen with the average Labour voter mind.

Oh it's crass and shouldn't be allowed no doubt
It's a fight to the bottom.

Agreed! Labour should stay away from this shit and let the Tories just self destruct from all their incompetence, crookedness, right wing fascism and general odiousness. If your opponent is digging a hole for themselves dont take away their spade or start digging your own hole!

[Biffer]

Is this a shot across the bows? A statement that Labour are prepared to play just as dirty and dog whistle headlines as well? Telling the tories that if they sink down to the lowest level the current labour party will fight back too, and there's plenty of ammo after 13 years in power?

[sockwithaticket]

This isn't quite what I had in mind when wishing for Labour to show a bit more nous and backbone...

Whether as an accusation it's right or wrong, and I'd sit firmly in the camp saying it's wrong, it's a bloody asinine thing to do because it's so OTT it can be easily defended with indignation. Having done it they should have said sorry, someone got carried away we apologise and we'll withdraw all such content, not tried to defend it. Now apart from anything else it's just bad politics and could easily cost them votes.

I happen to think you wouldn't be far wrong if instead you made the claim about the Tory party being pro rape, because their actions over and over support racists and harm victims. But even there it'd be a hell of a brazen claim to actually straight up make in public, you'd need something rather more nuanced to make the same point without outrage at the claim being the story rather than the actual point. And the scope to be more nuanced in this or labelling Sunak as they have is vast.

There's also the issue that Labour and the Tories are held to different standards, consciously or otherwise. The electorate expect the Tories to be horrible shits (for some that seems to be a large part of the appeall...) and for Labour to take a higher road. Subverting that costs Labour.

[Ymx]

images upload

[C69]

Really?

[C69]

To digress my mate at a high level in the BMA states there is no way the Jnr Doctors strike will go ahead.
Most medical directors have been told this and have granted leave etc to Consultants next week

To be precise not blocked the staff from taking leave.
However shitloads of Jnr Docs have booked skiing trips.
They have been told they can make up the loss of wages from striking by doing overtime to make up the back logs.
Or been guaranteed locum rates.

Lol

[petej]

Well, yes, it’s borderline libel, it’s so bad.

It says

Rishi Sunak “thinks” adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should not go to prison.

You can not surely defend this?? Even on this circle jerk off of a thread.

It is crass. The real problem is the huge waits in our justice systems which have got worse and worse over the past 10 years but people are too stupid to realise such things and concentrate on new laws and bullshit rather than actually being able to apply existing ones.

Not unusual to be unable to apply existing laws and regulations in the land of shit rivers, poo beaches and rip off energy in a country very well situated for net zero.