2022/23 Champions/Challenge Cup

[ASMO]

More quality reffing for you to digest

That’s not a yellow.

I couldn't believe that was what people were shiteing on about when I watched the match. They should be ashamed of themselves. The purport to be rugby men and they start embarrassing themselves talking about conspiracies with real rage like Slick; over that. Slick even went so far as to damn the Irish nations soul and very being. Slick would have you believe we are a cruel people, a hateful people. All because of that. I blame moderates like C69 feeding it all

It is clearly illegal and what consitutes foul play under the current laws which state "A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground. " so yes, yellow card all the way.

tackle.jpg (112.26 KiB) Viewed 1657 times

[OomStruisbaai]

Jeez - do you ever stop the incessant one eyed whingeing about refs.

Nope every match a French team are playing in
Fucking tedious

He's by a good distance the biggest whingeing twat across either bored. Even worse than the Saffa loons. I don't thunk he actually watches the rugby, just the refs through his one good eye.

Fucking tedious is right.

Leave the Saffas out of this. There are a lot of posters like that. You need to take them out during matches.

[CM11]

From World Rugby

9 Foul play
Principle

A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off.

Dangerous play

9.18 A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

And?

[Tichtheid]

From World Rugby

9 Foul play
Principle

A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off.

Dangerous play

9.18 A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

And?

and, did the tackler (Porter) lift the opponent off the ground?

Did the tackler then drop or drive the player so that their head and/or upper body made contact with the ground?



I think you guys would have a stronger case if you just said, "Aye we got away with one there, it happens"


I don't think Porter will be cited as Mallia(?) landed on his back as opposed to his head/neck, so for me it's yellow rather than red.

[CM11]

You have given what is foul play and mentioned three outcomes for the player. That's what the 'and' was for. One of those outcomes was irrelevant and the most likely determination of the TMO.

[Tichtheid]

You have given what is foul play and mentioned three outcomes for the player. That's what the 'and' was for. One of those outcomes was irrelevant and the most likely determination of the TMO.

Which do you think was the most likely outcome from the TMO?

Personally I think Porter got lucky in that there was a try scored.

[CM11]

You have given what is foul play and mentioned three outcomes for the player. That's what the 'and' was for. One of those outcomes was irrelevant and the most likely determination of the TMO.

Which do you think was the most likely outcome from the TMO?

Personally I think Porter got lucky in that there was a try scored.

I think the TMO probably viewed it as penalty only and given try was scored, no need to bring it to Barnes attention.

[Tichtheid]

You have given what is foul play and mentioned three outcomes for the player. That's what the 'and' was for. One of those outcomes was irrelevant and the most likely determination of the TMO.

Which do you think was the most likely outcome from the TMO?

Personally I think Porter got lucky in that there was a try scored.

I think the TMO probably viewed it as penalty only and given try was scored, no need to bring it to Barnes attention.

as far as I'm aware the commentary team know if the TMO checks something or not, Ben Kay said in comms (I've just checked) that the tMO hadn't looked at it. Barnes does say something about a high tackle and does the hand to shoulder gesture after the try has been scored.


Given that it's easy enough to play the tweeted footage from a few posts back, in your opinion, not the TMO's, do you think it was penalty only?

[PornDog]

From World Rugby

9 Foul play
Principle

A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off.

Dangerous play

9.18 A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

And?

and, did the tackler (Porter) lift the opponent off the ground?

Did the tackler then drop or drive the player so that their head and/or upper body made contact with the ground?



I think you guys would have a stronger case if you just said, "Aye we got away with one there, it happens"


I don't think Porter will be cited as Mallia(?) landed on his back as opposed to his head/neck, so for me it's yellow rather than red.

There are plenty of us guys who do think that


Having said that, I can see the argument that the hips never went above shoulder height, and he went down flat on his back, therefore it was a penalty only offence. I still think he's a very lucky boy if that is the determination by the officials though. YC all day for my money, you can't be doing things like that.

[CM11]

Which do you think was the most likely outcome from the TMO?

Personally I think Porter got lucky in that there was a try scored.

I think the TMO probably viewed it as penalty only and given try was scored, no need to bring it to Barnes attention.

as far as I'm aware the commentary team know if the TMO checks something or not, Ben Kay said in comms (I've just checked) that the tMO hadn't looked at it. Barnes does say something about a high tackle and does the hand to shoulder gesture after the try has been scored.


Given that it's easy enough to play the tweeted footage from a few posts back, in your opinion, not the TMO's, do you think it was penalty only?

Yes. I've seen that given as penalty only before.

[Tichtheid]

I think the TMO probably viewed it as penalty only and given try was scored, no need to bring it to Barnes attention.

as far as I'm aware the commentary team know if the TMO checks something or not, Ben Kay said in comms (I've just checked) that the tMO hadn't looked at it. Barnes does say something about a high tackle and does the hand to shoulder gesture after the try has been scored.


Given that it's easy enough to play the tweeted footage from a few posts back, in your opinion, not the TMO's, do you think it was penalty only?

Yes. I've seen that given as penalty only before.

I'm not really asking how it's been given before. I'm asking if you think the footage of Porter there is really penalty only.

The way I see it is that Porter picks him up, the winger's legs are at almost a 90 degree angle, so clearly above horizontal. That much cannot be argued with.

There is guidance that a tackler should lower the player safely to the floor, I don't see that happening in the footage. This is where interpretation comes in, to me Porter dumps the winger with some considerable force into the ground, I've played the tweet multiple times now and I can't see it any other way. In fact the more I watch it the worse it looks, it was very lucky that he only landed on his back and that wasn't because of any care Porter put into the landing.

It was extremely dangerous.

[CM11]

OK, I'll try again.

Yes.

Pause.

I've seen that given as just a penalty before.

I was backing up my personal opinion with precedent.

[Tichtheid]

OK, I'll try again.

Yes.

Pause.

I've seen that given as just a penalty before.

I was backing up my personal opinion with precedent.

Not really, you claimed a tackle very similar to that has been judged as a penalty only, that's not using precedent. If you quote the incidents then they can be checked.

Is there anything in the way I described that tackle that is factually wrong? I used a couple of subjective terms, such as considerable force and my view that it was extremely dangerous.


btw, the Irish Independent see it this way

Leinster were lucky to have a full complement when they went in as Andrew Porter tipped Malia in a tackle

and in the player ratings

(Porter) was very lucky to get away with a tackle off the ball shortly after.

[robmatic]

I'm not really asking how it's been given before. I'm asking if you think the footage of Porter there is really penalty only.

The way I see it is that Porter picks him up, the winger's legs are at almost a 90 degree angle, so clearly above horizontal. That much cannot be argued with.

There is guidance that a tackler should lower the player safely to the floor, I don't see that happening in the footage. This is where interpretation comes in, to me Porter dumps the winger with some considerable force into the ground, I've played the tweet multiple times now and I can't see it any other way. In fact the more I watch it the worse it looks, it was very lucky that he only landed on his back and that wasn't because of any care Porter put into the landing.

It was extremely dangerous.

Surely it's the position of the torso that is relevant when you are determining whether the winger is lifted beyond the horizontal. I think in this case it's not tremendously clear cut because the winger curls up and then lands on his back i.e. he is definitely horizontal when he hits the ground.

[CM11]

OK, I'll try again.

Yes.

Pause.

I've seen that given as just a penalty before.

I was backing up my personal opinion with precedent.

Not really, you claimed a tackle very similar to that has been judged as a penalty only, that's not using precedent. If you quote the incidents then they can be checked.

Is there anything in the way I described that tackle that is factually wrong? I used a couple of subjective terms, such as considerable force and my view that it was extremely dangerous.


btw, the Irish Independent see it this way

Leinster were lucky to have a full complement when they went in as Andrew Porter tipped Malia in a tackle

and in the player ratings

(Porter) was very lucky to get away with a tackle off the ball shortly after.

I wouldn't be arguing the toss if a yellow had been given. It's just bleating though at this stage. I generally favour 15 v 15 and when incidents are completely inconsequential (outcome not serious, no advantage gained), I'm not going to spend days arguing about it.

I presume TMO checked (TMO doesn't have to have a ref referral to check), deemed it a pen and moved on with his life.

[OomStruisbaai]

Fuck know you lot are ref bevok. When Rassie made a Barnes video you all shite your pants. The game is over and the good guys won.

[laurent]

'Extremely dangerous'. Would you fucking get off the stage.

stop being an idiot.

[Tichtheid]

I'm not really asking how it's been given before. I'm asking if you think the footage of Porter there is really penalty only.

The way I see it is that Porter picks him up, the winger's legs are at almost a 90 degree angle, so clearly above horizontal. That much cannot be argued with.

There is guidance that a tackler should lower the player safely to the floor, I don't see that happening in the footage. This is where interpretation comes in, to me Porter dumps the winger with some considerable force into the ground, I've played the tweet multiple times now and I can't see it any other way. In fact the more I watch it the worse it looks, it was very lucky that he only landed on his back and that wasn't because of any care Porter put into the landing.

It was extremely dangerous.

Surely it's the position of the torso that is relevant when you are determining whether the winger is lifted beyond the horizontal. I think in this case it's not tremendously clear cut because the winger curls up and then lands on his back i.e. he is definitely horizontal when he hits the ground.

The referees and TMOs always talk about legs going above the horizontal, not the torso

[Tichtheid]

OK, I'll try again.

Yes.

Pause.

I've seen that given as just a penalty before.

I was backing up my personal opinion with precedent.

Not really, you claimed a tackle very similar to that has been judged as a penalty only, that's not using precedent. If you quote the incidents then they can be checked.

Is there anything in the way I described that tackle that is factually wrong? I used a couple of subjective terms, such as considerable force and my view that it was extremely dangerous.


btw, the Irish Independent see it this way

Leinster were lucky to have a full complement when they went in as Andrew Porter tipped Malia in a tackle

and in the player ratings

(Porter) was very lucky to get away with a tackle off the ball shortly after.

I wouldn't be arguing the toss if a yellow had been given. It's just bleating though at this stage. I generally favour 15 v 15 and when incidents are completely inconsequential (outcome not serious, no advantage gained), I'm not going to spend days arguing about it.

I presume TMO checked (TMO doesn't have to have a ref referral to check), deemed it a pen and moved on with his life.

and yet here you are.

Like I said before, if you’d said “yeah he got lucky there” that would have been the end of it.

[paddyor]

Which do you think was the most likely outcome from the TMO?

Personally I think Porter got lucky in that there was a try scored.

I think the TMO probably viewed it as penalty only and given try was scored, no need to bring it to Barnes attention.

as far as I'm aware the commentary team know if the TMO checks something or not, Ben Kay said in comms (I've just checked) that the tMO hadn't looked at it. Barnes does say something about a high tackle and does the hand to shoulder gesture after the try has been scored.


Given that it's easy enough to play the tweeted footage from a few posts back, in your opinion, not the TMO's, do you think it was penalty only?

It happened in front of Barnes and he called adavantage almost straight away.

[Torquemada 1420]

As usual, French tv trying their best to avoid showing correct replay

After RTE's efforts yesterday, I think Fre TV gets a by for the next decade.

Tv crew is the competition organizer so I. This case BT afaik. And again the TMO has his own feed. Barnes thought it was a try ffs. He never asked about the grounding until later and the fucking the try was disallowed. Wtf are you on about.

Wrong incidents. The feed I had said RTE but your point is probably valid i.e. TMO has own feed so all the bluster about Fre broadcasters not showing replays should be irrelevant.

[Torquemada 1420]

He's by a good distance the biggest whingeing twat across either bored. Even worse than the Saffa loons. I don't thunk he actually watches the rugby, just the refs through his one good eye.

Fucking tedious is right.

More quality reffing for you to digest

That’s not a yellow.

Nearer a red.

[Torquemada 1420]

Bollox. Good hard man's tackle. We have got ragdolled a few times hence why we have one Heino in 10 years. More of the same from Porter thank you very much only next time stand over him shouting obscenities

Pretty much what we would expect from pikeys.

[TheFrog]

By the scale of Toulouse 's spanking, I am worried about France's prospect at the world cup.

La Rochelle made it to the Final thanks to its imported beef.

[fishfoodie]

By the scale of Toulouse 's spanking, I am worried about France's prospect at the world cup.

La Rochelle made it to the Final thanks to its imported beef.

Nah.

Toulouse were hit with a preventable error with the 6:2 split, that left them having to move the best SH out of position, & spent the rest of match suffering from not having a utility back on the bench.

There's always a really good chance you'll need to go to Plan B in a top level game, & the Toulouse coaches fucked up by going with the bigger cattle approach, when they started with a ~70kg advantage in the pack.

[Tichtheid]

We'll find out quite quickly in the RWC, the winners and runners up in Pools A & B meet in the quarters, so leaving aside what I'd want to happen and Scotland not making it that far, South Africa and Ireland will each meet New Zealand or France.

[TheFrog]

By the scale of Toulouse 's spanking, I am worried about France's prospect at the world cup.

La Rochelle made it to the Final thanks to its imported beef.

Nah.

Toulouse were hit with a preventable error with the 6:2 split, that left them having to move the best SH out of position, & spent the rest of match suffering from not having a utility back on the bench.

There's always a really good chance you'll need to go to Plan B in a top level game, & the Toulouse coaches fucked up by going with the bigger cattle approach, when they started with a ~70kg advantage in the pack.

In fairness, the Toulouse coaches were spread thin in the backs and I am not sure they could have had a third decent back on the bench.

Beside, the way they leaked twice 14 points in two spells playing with 14 men is a worry. Hopefully one that will not be transfered to France.

[TheFrog]

I think Toulouse lack a powerful center too. Akhi is no longer thrbplayer he was.

[Biffer]

Well, regardless of all that pish I think the two best teams in the competition are in the final. Should be a belter, just wish it was on neutral ground.

[paddyor]

Wrong incidents. The feed I had said RTE but your point is probably valid i.e. TMO has own feed so all the bluster about Fre broadcasters not showing replays should be irrelevant.

The thing about French broadcasters was they never showed replays at all where there might be a question about illegality. And sometimes refs can be influenced to go back and look at stuff due to whats on the big screen. And a French TV producer freely admitted this.

[paddyor]

Well, regardless of all that pish I think the two best teams in the competition are in the final. Should be a belter, just wish it was on neutral ground.

It'd be a nuetral ground if Ulster Leicester or Toulouse had knocked us out.

[Biffer]

Well, regardless of all that pish I think the two best teams in the competition are in the final. Should be a belter, just wish it was on neutral ground.

It'd be a nuetral ground if Ulster Leicester or Toulouse had knocked us out.

And that has no relevance to the point. Usual dickhead Irish comment. DuR wE jUsT tWo GuD fIr DeM. Try to have a worthwhile opinion rather than wanking into your own coffee occasionally.

[CM11]

As usual you missed the point in your usual attempt to be a prick on all matters Irish.

This is the first final with an Irish team in Ireland since they picked the final venue in advance. English teams in particular and French teams have benefited from home country advantage in the past, something that isn't insignificant. Every final involving an English side taking place in England has been won by the English side.

So, the point was that the final venue was open to all. Being a prick about the fact that Leinster have managed to make it this year having failed at semi final stage in 2003 and not even making knockouts in 2013 is just being, well, a prick.

[Uncle fester]

Well, regardless of all that pish I think the two best teams in the competition are in the final. Should be a belter, just wish it was on neutral ground.

It'd be a nuetral ground if Ulster Leicester or Toulouse had knocked us out.

And that has no relevance to the point. Usual dickhead Irish comment. DuR wE jUsT tWo GuD fIr DeM. Try to have a worthwhile opinion rather than wanking into your own coffee occasionally.

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

[Tichtheid]

It'd be a nuetral ground if Ulster Leicester or Toulouse had knocked us out.

And that has no relevance to the point. Usual dickhead Irish comment. DuR wE jUsT tWo GuD fIr DeM. Try to have a worthwhile opinion rather than wanking into your own coffee occasionally.

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

[CM11]

The nature of rugby stadiums is that there is always a chance you get a team playing in a venue they're comfortable in.

We have neutral venues plenty of times. This year a combination of the ridiculous last 16 and no draw for the semis has skewed the knockouts into a decent advantage for Leinster. Shit happens but venue was open to all and as above home country advantage has helped other teams in the past.

The bleating seems excessive this year for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it. Hmmmm.

[Biffer]

And that has no relevance to the point. Usual dickhead Irish comment. DuR wE jUsT tWo GuD fIr DeM. Try to have a worthwhile opinion rather than wanking into your own coffee occasionally.

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

[Tichtheid]

Someone with more time to check can correct me on this, but I think this is the fourth time since the competition began that the final has been held in the city where one of the finalists play - Cardiff once, Wasps twice and now Leinster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... Cup#Finals

[CM11]

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

Have you met kettle?

[Kawazaki]

What's this thing about our fans being nobs anyway. Where? On Facebook with all the other international nobs? Never saw it on PR and in fact we are too magnanimous and prone to following whatever trend like 'Dupont is actually the best player that ever lived with a head the same size as his torso'.

If you couldn't see any Irish being dickheads on PR then you'll never see it!