2022/23 Champions/Challenge Cup

[Uncle fester]

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

Leinster.
I will keep correcting you until you acknowledge.

[CM11]

Fester is asking for the IT article to be posted to remind him how arrogant and condescending some Munster fans can be.

[Kawazaki]

What's this thing about our fans being nobs anyway. Where? On Facebook with all the other international nobs? Never saw it on PR and in fact we are too magnanimous and prone to following whatever trend like 'Dupont is actually the best player that ever lived with a head the same size as his torso'.

If you couldn't see any Irish being dickheads on PR then you'll never see it!

It was massively overplayed by lads like you. Just repeated again and again and again when there wasn't much evidence for it bar some piss taking. Now we have cycled into a 2018 like good period we are in the crosshairs and that is fine. I will say I don't frequent anywhere online outside of here really these days but saw some of the Irish lads having a go off the womens Irish rugby on social media and its been bottom feeding stuff. So yeah there may now be a sizeable element of cunts spread far and wide. World is fucked with all this culture wars fuckology. Murdoch should be hung drawn and quartered

"Overplayed"?

Get some self-awareness fella.

[CM11]

Toga asking others to be self aware?!

[PornDog]

You mean Leinster. The rest of us are sound.

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

TBF, there's a lot of bleating about Leinster having an unfair advantage getting home ties, when there was no such bleating when La Rochelle and Toulouse had actual home stadium (not home country, but their own actual home stadia) semi final ties in 2021, or Exeter had in 2020. Not a peep out of anyone. But Leinster have home country advantage, earned through performance and the laws of the competition, and all of a sudden commentators are up in arms about how unfair it is.

While on the surface it seems like a sensible discussion, it is heavily laden with hypocrisy and no small amount on nonsense*. It's not the first time that an Irish teams success (and they haven't won anything yet) has caused a stir about unfair advantages in the British press.

Add to that and you've Bayfield getting bitch slapped by ROG when he said Leinster have easy games in the URC coming up while La Rochelle have the Top 14 grind and it just reinforces the fact that most of the criticisms levelled against Irish teams are coming from a place of absolute ignorance.

It all leaves a very sour taste in the mouth, so I can understand people being a little quick to fly off the handle when it's brought up, yet again, even if in this instance you weren't actually bringing it up but got caught in a bit of an unwarranted crossfire.


* should we stop hosting Finals in Twickenham because Harlequins use it, Judgement Day rules out the Millenium and the 1870 games rules out Murrayfield, pretty sure Stade use St. Denis as well, Tottenham shouldn't be hosting it next year because Sarries use that!!!!

[Uncle fester]

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

Leinster.
I will keep correcting you until you acknowledge.

Munster were and are always the really grating twiddle dee fans. Make everyone sick Fester though as noted you are more a true blue royal

We were and remain loveable scamps who knew the good times wouldn't last.

Leinster fans on the other hand think they are the rugby equivalent of a thousand year Reich.

[CM11]

Leinster.
I will keep correcting you until you acknowledge.

Munster were and are always the really grating twiddle dee fans. Make everyone sick Fester though as noted you are more a true blue royal

We were and remain loveable scamps who knew the good times wouldn't last.

Leinster fans on the other hand think they are the rugby equivalent of a thousand year Reich.

Don't say you weren't warned.

Sport
'Even staunch Blues now fear a hiding'
IN THE RED CORNER: Three years ago Munster fan NIALL KIELY found it hard to be humble when faced with Leinster's delusions…
Sat May 2 2009 - 01:00
IN THE RED CORNER:Three years ago Munster fan NIALL KIELY found it hard to be humble when faced with Leinster's delusions of adequacy. Today, he says it is impossible to be humble and much easier to be patronising.

DREADFUL CANARDS and shameful slights are doing the rounds of Munster textland this weekend. Sly, sleekit, faux-innocent questions. This column agonised through a dark night of the soul before it became obvious that in our Information Age, it would be venal to break an SMS joke-chain. Thus:

Question one: What do you call a Leinster supporter in Europe after May 2nd?

Question two: Felipe Contepomi said what to the garda who caught him speeding?

READ MORE

Question three: What do General Pinochet and Leinster have in common? (Answers at the end.)

Seriously, though. Now that we’ve finalised the Larne- Stranraer bookings, I suppose the Croke Park business must be got through somehow. It might even prove a semi-decent warm-up for Edinburgh, though the suspicion lingers that a team with more need in the gut than Leinster might lay down a stiffer test.

Why has the gap widened to the extent that even staunch Blues are sweating bricks, and (the honest ones) now fear a hiding?

Liverpool would be pleased if their Boot Room succession- model of old was still delivering Munster-smooth continuity. In Leinster, Michael “Butch” Cheika and his Sundance farceur, David Knox, strutted into town and inherited a pretty decent, albeit soft-centred squad. What’s been developed in the years since?

Frankly, not much. Importing instant-fix, High Veldt muscle isn’t going to provide either a medium or long-term solution – given a pack that still doesn’t get the difference between “want” and “need” to win – and gives not even immediate succour when any bought-in, beef-to-the-heel Boer heifer has Achilles’ hooves.

The organisation? It gave us the farce of Felipe Contepomi’s cocked-up original registration. It managed to let slip easily the best outhalf package it ever had: neat, unshowy David Holwell, who looked the playmaker most likely to let slip the hounds of O’Driscoll and D’Arcy. Even the daft loss of press officer Pat Geraghty has been Munster’s considerable gain. And as for Isa Nacewa: Lord, have mercy.

Last month’s ticketing debacle? Leinster rushed into sales, made a mess of that, as well as the aftermath of the Ticketmaster fiasco. Some genius then tried to strong-arm the province’s clubs with dire threat of consequence should Reds appear in “Blue” seating: ye gods. And the clubs were short-changed and left angry over their miserly allocations.

The Leinster playing style? To the external tracker, there’s evident spoor of internal dissonance. Is the “Real Leinster” the team which wiped Wasps off the RDS pitch, or the side which limped through the later ERC pool games – or is it the limp lot who went down tamely, home and away, to Munster in the Magners?

How can dependable, all-weather gameplans evolve with a unbiddable head-banger at outhalf; a superannuated Aussie crabbing inconsequentially at scrumhalf and a backrow lacking either a linking rover (sin of omission: Keith Gleeson was deaf to all pay or persuasion to give it a Johnny Logan?) or a lethal lumberjack (one of commission: non-selection of Seán O’Brien).

And contrast the disaffection among Leinster clubs with Munster Rugby. Munster Rugby has the goodwill of its provincial clubs. Not just the top-table Shannons, Garryowens, Cork Cons – it’s just as much the nascent likes of Cashel, the Castleislands and Carrick-on- Suirs. Most people I know in Leinster junior rugby are Munster supporters by inclination: they relate to a genuine entity that well represents them abroad. Chapters of Reds in Connacht, Ulster and across the diaspora have viscerally connected to a noble concept: a group of sportsmen has truly earned the troth of its motley; and a roiling terrace knows its faith is acknowledged in kind.

Reggie Corrigan had a weekend slap at “Lunsters” – Jonathan-come-latelies turned Redcoats. Some may of course be prawn-sandwich opportunists, but the vast majority I reckon became disenchanted over bitter years on the concrete steps of Donnybrook by the fundamentally uncaring “performance” of so-called professionals who simply couldn’t be arsed.

Appreciation of Munster’s simple virtues is now widespread. The text questions above came from Llanelli stalwarts. They know their rugby, their captain for years has been the revered Simon Easterby – who in his prime would have dovetailed seamlessly with most Munster backrows – and they are envious but admiring aficionados of the Munster project. The Scarlets even “get” Leinster: they’ve got their local ladyboys, the Neath-Swansea Ospreys. As my Llanelli friend Dewi might put it: “Niall bach, our Ashtrays are just like your Leinster – all fur coat and no knickers.”

One feels sorry for Leinster diehards – almost – and those three-quarter thoroughbreds. Just a couple of Magners from that sleek slew of gilded genius, lads? As Felipe might say: Jesús,

María y José!

But it’s really, genuinely not just about results. We’ve been to Lille and back, suffered the Backhand. Folks, it’s this simple: we Reds love the magnificent gestalt that is our Munster, we care deeply for these people who have leavened our quotidians with joy and brio and serious fun, we have endless time for our players who viscerally reciprocate our ardour.

Soon after seven o’clock this evening, the ultimate Red shout of the evening will succumb to susurrus, and in that fine sibilance will resonate our most recent epiphany. Bless these men.

And the answers: 1 A tourist; 2 At this stage, I’ll do anything for points; 3 Both gather people in stadiums and torture them.

Niall Kiely is a former Irish Timesjournalist and contributes to RTÉ's What it Says in the Paper

[Tichtheid]

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

TBF, there's a lot of bleating about Leinster having an unfair advantage getting home ties, when there was no such bleating when La Rochelle and Toulouse had actual home stadium (not home country, but their own actual home stadia) semi final ties in 2021, or Exeter had in 2020. Not a peep out of anyone.

Did no one say that the home team would have an advantage in those games, not one single person?

For the record, La Rochelle's upcoming fixture list is Leinster away in the Euro final, their Top 14 fixtures before the knock outs are; Toulon away, Montpellier away and Stade Francais at home. Each of these teams are jockeying for position for the play offs.

Leinster's likely run in for the remainder of the season is La Rochelle at home in the Euros, Sharks at home in the league 1/4, Glasgow or Munster at home in the 1/2 and one of Stormers, Bulls, Ulster or Connacht at home in the final

They're not breaking any rules, but in a game where the elite matches can be decided by the smallest of things, I don't see the problem with pointing out the fact that Leinster have a great chance of the double, especially with how the fixtures play out.

Personally I'd love it if Edinburgh were in that position, I wouldn't start roarin and greetin about others saying our cause is helped by playing all the games in Edinburgh, there is no asterisk put beside the record depending on where the game is played.

[Uncle fester]

I am happy with thousand year Reich. Snappy uniforms

You share the same insecurity and neediness.
The Nazis would totally go for stars on their jerseys.

[CM11]

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

TBF, there's a lot of bleating about Leinster having an unfair advantage getting home ties, when there was no such bleating when La Rochelle and Toulouse had actual home stadium (not home country, but their own actual home stadia) semi final ties in 2021, or Exeter had in 2020. Not a peep out of anyone.

Did no one say that the home team would have an advantage in those games, not one single person?

For the record, La Rochelle's upcoming fixture list is Leinster away in the Euro final, their Top 14 fixtures before the knock outs are; Toulon away, Montpellier away and Stade Francais at home. Each of these teams are jockeying for position for the play offs.

Leinster's likely run in for the remainder of the season is La Rochelle at home in the Euros, Sharks at home in the league 1/4, Glasgow or Munster at home in the 1/2 and one of Stormers, Bulls, Ulster or Connacht at home in the final

They're not breaking any rules, but in a game where the elite matches can be decided by the smallest of things, I don't see the problem with pointing out the fact that Leinster have a great chance of the double, especially with how the fixtures play out.

Personally I'd love it if Edinburgh were in that position, I wouldn't start roarin and greetin about others saying our cause is helped by playing all the games in Edinburgh, there is no asterisk put beside the record depending on where the game is played.

No one has said we don't have an advantage.

It's the bleating about how it's so unfair that's the problem.

The irony of course being that we (the Irish) weren't in favour of any changes to the comp 10 years ago yet those changes have led to the situation where we've four knockouts in a row in our home city.

[Tichtheid]

TBF, there's a lot of bleating about Leinster having an unfair advantage getting home ties, when there was no such bleating when La Rochelle and Toulouse had actual home stadium (not home country, but their own actual home stadia) semi final ties in 2021, or Exeter had in 2020. Not a peep out of anyone.

Did no one say that the home team would have an advantage in those games, not one single person?

For the record, La Rochelle's upcoming fixture list is Leinster away in the Euro final, their Top 14 fixtures before the knock outs are; Toulon away, Montpellier away and Stade Francais at home. Each of these teams are jockeying for position for the play offs.

Leinster's likely run in for the remainder of the season is La Rochelle at home in the Euros, Sharks at home in the league 1/4, Glasgow or Munster at home in the 1/2 and one of Stormers, Bulls, Ulster or Connacht at home in the final

They're not breaking any rules, but in a game where the elite matches can be decided by the smallest of things, I don't see the problem with pointing out the fact that Leinster have a great chance of the double, especially with how the fixtures play out.

Personally I'd love it if Edinburgh were in that position, I wouldn't start roarin and greetin about others saying our cause is helped by playing all the games in Edinburgh, there is no asterisk put beside the record depending on where the game is played.

No one has said we don't have an advantage.

It's the bleating about how it's so unfair that's the problem.

The irony of course being that we (the Irish) weren't in favour of any changes to the comp 10 years ago yet those changes have led to the situation where we've four knockouts in a row in our home city.

No one here can control what happens outside of this forum. I've searched this thread for the word "unfair" and besides JM2K saying it's not unfair and me saying the same, the only occurrences of the word come from the posters who are Leinster fans, from what I gather, complaining about people saying it's so unfair..

[CM11]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

You can't guarantee the finalists (last two in Lansdowne were all French affairs) so no point even discussing it.

[Tichtheid]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

You can't guarantee the finalists (last two in Lansdowne were all French affairs) so no point even discussing it.

No one here is discussing it (the unfairness of it all) except you guys.

[PornDog]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

You can't guarantee the finalists (last two in Lansdowne were all French affairs) so no point even discussing it.

No one here is discussing it (the unfairness of it all) except you guys.

Biffer felt agrieved because he felt an Irish poster was taking offence at his reference to 'nuetral ground'. I explained why we're currently a bit sensitive about this and are pissed off at the bullshit narrative emanating from the English media - whether it exists on this forum or not is not exactly the point.

[Tichtheid]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

You can't guarantee the finalists (last two in Lansdowne were all French affairs) so no point even discussing it.

No one here is discussing it (the unfairness of it all) except you guys.

Biffer felt agrieved because he felt an Irish poster was taking offence at his reference to 'nuetral ground'. I explained why we're currently a bit sensitive about this and are pissed off at the bullshit narrative emanating from the English media - whether it exists on this forum or not is not exactly the point.

Okay, Biffer's post was misunderstood and the repeated references to "bleating" were from outwith this forum.


One of the reasons I don't think it's unfair (the Heineken Cup) is that it's a big event that is played out over two days, the wee cup and the big cup. That takes a lot of organising and it's really difficult to do that on short notice, so it makes sense to choose a venue well in advance.

The URC also seems fair enough to me in a multinational competition, it's easy to host a French final in Paris or an English one in London, being top of the log should come with some reward and home play offs recognise the achievement over the season. If a team beats Leinster in Dublin they earn it.

I'm a bit miffed at the lack of faith the SRU put in Edinburgh tbh, we've got Beyonce and then Harry Styles booked for Murrayfield on the days of the big finals.

[paddyor]

Well, regardless of all that pish I think the two best teams in the competition are in the final. Should be a belter, just wish it was on neutral ground.

It'd be a nuetral ground if Ulster Leicester or Toulouse had knocked us out.

And that has no relevance to the point. Usual dickhead Irish comment. DuR wE jUsT tWo GuD fIr DeM. Try to have a worthwhile opinion rather than wanking into your own coffee occasionally.

You wouldn't give a toss if it was Edinburgh in HCC or Challenge cup final in Edinburgh.

[Torquemada 1420]

By the scale of Toulouse 's spanking, I am worried about France's prospect at the world cup.

La Rochelle made it to the Final thanks to its imported beef.

Nah.

Toulouse were hit with a preventable error with the 6:2 split, that left them having to move the best SH out of position, & spent the rest of match suffering from not having a utility back on the bench.

There's always a really good chance you'll need to go to Plan B in a top level game, & the Toulouse coaches fucked up by going with the bigger cattle approach, when they started with a ~70kg advantage in the pack.

100%. Between Mola and Barnes they combined to reduce ST's chances from outsiders to nil. I'm not sure the 6:2 was de facto the error but the choice of the 2 and then the subsequent choice of realignment was staggeringly dim.

Whilst Leinster might just be as close to being the Irish ntl team as it possible to be as a "club" side, that absolutely is not true of Toulouse.

[Torquemada 1420]

Wrong incidents. The feed I had said RTE but your point is probably valid i.e. TMO has own feed so all the bluster about Fre broadcasters not showing replays should be irrelevant.

The thing about French broadcasters was they never showed replays at all where there might be a question about illegality. And sometimes refs can be influenced to go back and look at stuff due to whats on the big screen. And a French TV producer freely admitted this.

Well, then I'd suggest that is yet another failing in the officiating that needs addressing?

[Torquemada 1420]

What's this thing about our fans being nobs anyway. Where? On Facebook with all the other international nobs? Never saw it on PR and in fact we are too magnanimous and prone to following whatever trend like 'Dupont is actually the best player that ever lived with a head the same size as his torso'.

FM. Lack of self awareness. The Swarm were the biggest collective c**ts ever to hit PR.

[CM11]

No one here is discussing it (the unfairness of it all) except you guys.

Biffer felt agrieved because he felt an Irish poster was taking offence at his reference to 'nuetral ground'. I explained why we're currently a bit sensitive about this and are pissed off at the bullshit narrative emanating from the English media - whether it exists on this forum or not is not exactly the point.

Okay, Biffer's post was misunderstood and the repeated references to "bleating" were from outwith this forum.

Eh, no. Biffer misunderstood the post he initially got in a tizzy about.

[Tichtheid]

Biffer felt agrieved because he felt an Irish poster was taking offence at his reference to 'nuetral ground'. I explained why we're currently a bit sensitive about this and are pissed off at the bullshit narrative emanating from the English media - whether it exists on this forum or not is not exactly the point.

Okay, Biffer's post was misunderstood and the repeated references to "bleating" were from outwith this forum.

Eh, no. Biffer misunderstood the post he initially got in a tizzy about.

Whatever the case, you've put in a sterling effort in defence of all things Leinster and their fans, Leinster the Unassailable right enough.

I've been reminded over the last couple of days of part of the reason I took a break from here and it's something that is my own fault, I find it difficult to just walk away and leave comments alone, so I'll need to learn that, I just don't find it easy.

However, part of not leaving things alone is that I look for examples, so far I've looked at the rugby sections in the Telegraph, Times and Guardian for articles where there is this bleating in the UK media about the unfairness of it all and how Leinster benefit, it must be there but so far I can't find it.
Full disclosure, I only looked at the headlines in the articles in the last week to ten days, to save reading anything that didn't seem relevant to this, but it must be in there somewhere - this is a genuine request, no wind up or underhanded motivation, can you provided a link or two?

[paddyor]

Wrong incidents. The feed I had said RTE but your point is probably valid i.e. TMO has own feed so all the bluster about Fre broadcasters not showing replays should be irrelevant.

The thing about French broadcasters was they never showed replays at all where there might be a question about illegality. And sometimes refs can be influenced to go back and look at stuff due to whats on the big screen. And a French TV producer freely admitted this.

Well, then I'd suggest that is yet another failing in the officiating that needs addressing?

No it is what is really. Lots of bleating about the porter tackle and the fact Vdf didn't get carded, not so much about Ramos pucnhing Porter in a ruck (in a similar position to Neti) which could have been a 2nd yellow or Arnold chinning Ross Byrne in a weird "tackling the tackler" in the run up to the Ahki try.

[paddyor]

Okay, Biffer's post was misunderstood and the repeated references to "bleating" were from outwith this forum.

Eh, no. Biffer misunderstood the post he initially got in a tizzy about.

Whatever the case, you've put in a sterling effort in defence of all things Leinster and their fans, Leinster the Unassailable right enough.

I've been reminded over the last couple of days of part of the reason I took a break from here and it's something that is my own fault, I find it difficult to just walk away and leave comments alone, so I'll need to learn that, I just don't find it easy.

However, part of not leaving things alone is that I look for examples, so far I've looked at the rugby sections in the Telegraph, Times and Guardian for articles where there is this bleating in the UK media about the unfairness of it all and how Leinster benefit, it must be there but so far I can't find it.
Full disclosure, I only looked at the headlines in the articles in the last week to ten days, to save reading anything that didn't seem relevant to this, but it must be in there somewhere - this is a genuine request, no wind up or underhanded motivation, can you provided a link or two?

It's there. Especially on fan forums.

[SaintK]

Another red from Dickson overturned

Former France skipper Charles Ollivon has been cleared to play for Toulon in their upcoming Challenge Cup final versus Glasgow in Dublin on May 19. The back-rower was red-carded in the early stages of his team’s semi-final win over Benetton last weekend, but he has now been cleared to play with immediate effect after the sending-off by referee Karl Dickson was overturned.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/epcr-sta ... erdict/
Torque in 54321.......................................................

[Tichtheid]

Eh, no. Biffer misunderstood the post he initially got in a tizzy about.

Whatever the case, you've put in a sterling effort in defence of all things Leinster and their fans, Leinster the Unassailable right enough.

I've been reminded over the last couple of days of part of the reason I took a break from here and it's something that is my own fault, I find it difficult to just walk away and leave comments alone, so I'll need to learn that, I just don't find it easy.

However, part of not leaving things alone is that I look for examples, so far I've looked at the rugby sections in the Telegraph, Times and Guardian for articles where there is this bleating in the UK media about the unfairness of it all and how Leinster benefit, it must be there but so far I can't find it.
Full disclosure, I only looked at the headlines in the articles in the last week to ten days, to save reading anything that didn't seem relevant to this, but it must be in there somewhere - this is a genuine request, no wind up or underhanded motivation, can you provided a link or two?

It's there. Especially on fan forums.

I thought the claim was that it was in the media?

I'm not too sure we can take fan forums as being anything other than what there are - extremely partisan and not subject to any kind of journalistic quality control.

(disclaimer - I'm not saying the UK media is subject to journalistic qc, unfortunately, but I think my point is easy enough to see)

[Tichtheid]

Another red from Dickson overturned

Former France skipper Charles Ollivon has been cleared to play for Toulon in their upcoming Challenge Cup final versus Glasgow in Dublin on May 19. The back-rower was red-carded in the early stages of his team’s semi-final win over Benetton last weekend, but he has now been cleared to play with immediate effect after the sending-off by referee Karl Dickson was overturned.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/epcr-sta ... erdict/
Torque in 54321.......................................................

They don't say how they reached the decision, do you think there was no contact with the head? I've now seen it and it looks like the ball between the payers made the Benetton player bounce backwards.

Ollivon didn't really make any effort to lower the height of the tackle.

I tuned into the game after that happened so I didn't see it at the time.

[paddyor]

Whatever the case, you've put in a sterling effort in defence of all things Leinster and their fans, Leinster the Unassailable right enough.

I've been reminded over the last couple of days of part of the reason I took a break from here and it's something that is my own fault, I find it difficult to just walk away and leave comments alone, so I'll need to learn that, I just don't find it easy.

However, part of not leaving things alone is that I look for examples, so far I've looked at the rugby sections in the Telegraph, Times and Guardian for articles where there is this bleating in the UK media about the unfairness of it all and how Leinster benefit, it must be there but so far I can't find it.
Full disclosure, I only looked at the headlines in the articles in the last week to ten days, to save reading anything that didn't seem relevant to this, but it must be in there somewhere - this is a genuine request, no wind up or underhanded motivation, can you provided a link or two?

It's there. Especially on fan forums.

I thought the claim was that it was in the media?

I'm not too sure we can take fan forums as being anything other than what there are - extremely partisan and not subject to any kind of journalistic quality control.

(disclaimer - I'm not saying the UK media is subject to journalistic qc, unfortunately, but I think my point is easy enough to see)

They didn't lick it up off the ground. Brian Moore wrote an article about it(after the qf IIRC) and it's a been a talking point thats bounced around podcasts etc.

[CM11]

Not necessarily about the venue but apparently a quarter final and semi final of the URC is a 'handy' warm up for Leinster to the final while regular league games give La Rochelle a really tough run according to Bayfield.

Separately ROG seems to have forgotten most of the Leinster team play for Ireland.

[Tichtheid]

It's there. Especially on fan forums.

I thought the claim was that it was in the media?

I'm not too sure we can take fan forums as being anything other than what there are - extremely partisan and not subject to any kind of journalistic quality control.

(disclaimer - I'm not saying the UK media is subject to journalistic qc, unfortunately, but I think my point is easy enough to see)

They didn't lick it up off the ground. Brian Moore wrote an article about it(after the qf IIRC) and it's a been a talking point thats bounced around podcasts etc.

Right, I've found that one now, cheers, and given the caveat that newspaper articles are little more than clickbait to attract advertising, he writes

It is surely not right that any side should have four home games, including the final, when contesting Europe’s top club tournament.

'In particular, no club should have a home tie for a final. Yes, Leinster are in an anomalous position, given that they frequently play in a national stadium, but it cannot be beyond the wit of an organising committee to prospectively book a couple of alternative venues before announcing a final or, as is the case this and other years, a stadium for a country from which no quarter-finalists have qualified, in this case Scotland or Wales.

'Leinster are favourites for the title. Like the national side they populate heavily, they have no conspicuous weakness and do not need the considerable advantage of successive home fixtures. This is not an anti-Leinster rant; no side should be given this sort of draw. Other teams who topped their groups have not been handed similar benefits.'

I disagree with him, he has a point about a team playing a few yards from their own ground, in a ground on which their international contingent will play high pressure games in AIs, the Christmas fixtures and the 6N, that is an easier game than say travelling to Cardiff or wherever.
However, as I said before the game can't be booked at the last minute because it's too complicated, eg the SRU booked Murrayfield for concerts ages ago. The big football grounds in Scotland have pitches that are too small for rugby games.

He's also mistaken in the last sentence there, La Roch played their knock out games at home because they topped their group.

[Kawazaki]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

Or you've got a massive chip on your shoulder and most of what you imagine is happening is just all in your head?

[CM11]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

Or you've got a massive chip on your shoulder and most of what you imagine is happening is just all in your head?

This would be funny from anyone but from you it has me on the floor.

You should look in the mirror one of these days.

[SaintK]

Another red from Dickson overturned

Former France skipper Charles Ollivon has been cleared to play for Toulon in their upcoming Challenge Cup final versus Glasgow in Dublin on May 19. The back-rower was red-carded in the early stages of his team’s semi-final win over Benetton last weekend, but he has now been cleared to play with immediate effect after the sending-off by referee Karl Dickson was overturned.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/epcr-sta ... erdict/
Torque in 54321.......................................................

They don't say how they reached the decision, do you think there was no contact with the head? I've now seen it and it looks like the ball between the payers made the Benetton player bounce backwards.

Ollivon didn't really make any effort to lower the height of the tackle.

I tuned into the game after that happened so I didn't see it at the time.

There was possibly contact with the head though it is difficult to see any real direct contact with the shoulder and as you say the ball was virtually chest on chest which probably made it ;look worse
Dickson seemed to want to give a red from the get go.
Second one from him that has been overturned in recent weeks.

[Kawazaki]

It's a general theme, being led by the English media.

Or you've got a massive chip on your shoulder and most of what you imagine is happening is just all in your head?

This would be funny from anyone but from you it has me on the floor.

You should look in the mirror one of these days.

I'm not Irish.

[PornDog]

Brian Moore was certainly the catalyst on this occasion. The BT bobble heads have referenced it a few times and Bayfield came out with the URC is shit innit trope - which in fairness hasn't really been brought up too often in more recent times.

As I said in my first post, it's not that there isn't a valid topic of conversation there in terms of tournament structure etc. - I think we can all agree it has many many issues. It's just that this particular issue wasn't a problem when it was to Exeters advantage, it wasn't a problem when it was to Toulouse or La Rochelle's advantage, but now that it is (potentially) to Leinster's advantage, well now its a problem that needs to be addressed.

There's a very underhanded vibe to it all.

Martin Samuel in The Times -

Leinster are favourites to become champions of Europe for a fifth time next month, powered by a very fine team and a completely avoidable competitive advantage. If Leinster reach the final on May 20, they will have played eight games, and all but two will have been at home. January 14 at Gloucester will be the last time Leinster played outside the Aviva Stadium, Dublin, in their European run, having previously visited Le Havre to face Racing 92. The rest will be home encounters.

The Heineken Champions Cup plays its knockout rounds over a single leg and home advantage is bestowed on the higher-ranked team. Leinster dominated pool A, so got their rewards. Yet the semi-finals and final are played at neutral venues. It just so happens that European Rugby decided Dublin in 2023 would be neutral.

So Leinster play Toulouse at home this weekend, and then the winners of La Rochelle and Exeter Chiefs there in May. It’s wrong. There has to be a way to organise a competition from a year out so that the deciding venues are guaranteed neutral. Next year, Tottenham Hotspur’s stadium has been chosen for the final. That’s sensible, but this was always likely to bestow an unfair advantage. Leinster were last season’s finalists and their team is the core of Ireland, ranked first in the world.

And, yes, Bayern Munich got to play football’s 2012 Champions League final at home and didn’t win. Yet if Leinster do, it will always be thought they were given a leg-up. It’s not fair on them; but it’s certainly not fair on the others, either.

"It's Wrong", when Leinster only play two away games*, but it's not wrong when La Rochelle won the tournament last year having only played once outside of France (they were awarded a draw for a COVID game, ironically enough when in similar circumstances Leinster were handed a 28-0 forfeit - and played Bordauex in the 2 leg last 16). It wasn't wrong when Leinster had to play La Rochelle in a semi final the year before in their actual home ground, but it is unfair that Toulouse has to play in a ground Leinster sometimes move high profile games to - same as Harlequins, Saracens, Stade Francais and Edinburgh do (and the Welsh do with Judgement Day).

It's the hypocrisy of it all that really grates. A hypocrisy that only seems to show its ugly head when an Irish team is doing well (and they still haven't won anything yet)



* I think it's wrong too, but that's the structure the shitheads in power dreamt up!

[PCPhil]

To be fair....it looks like you've dredged up a couple of haks trying to sell column inches in a couple of papers by pretending the reasons for Irelands (plural) success at the moment over English sides is due to some unfairness rather than the the lack of structure and ability than goes all the way to the national side. But keep going.

[CM11]

To be fair....it looks like you've dredged up a couple of haks trying to sell column inches in a couple of papers by pretending the reasons for Irelands (plural) success at the moment over English sides is due to some unfairness rather than the the lack of structure and ability than goes all the way to the national side. But keep going.

Bayfield works for the broadcaster of the competition.

[Torquemada 1420]

Another red from Dickson overturned

Former France skipper Charles Ollivon has been cleared to play for Toulon in their upcoming Challenge Cup final versus Glasgow in Dublin on May 19. The back-rower was red-carded in the early stages of his team’s semi-final win over Benetton last weekend, but he has now been cleared to play with immediate effect after the sending-off by referee Karl Dickson was overturned.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/epcr-sta ... erdict/
Torque in 54321.......................................................

The likes of Dickson, Brace and Adamson continue to make a mockery of the game. Players have to sit out bans for their foul ups and it's time refs who repeatedly f**k up are stood down too.

[Biffer]

It's not even all Leinster, I've known a fair few folk from Skerries and they are sound too.

There does seem to be a bit of a nervous tick when it comes to some fans online. I took Biffer's original post to mean that a neutral venue would make for an even more interesting contest between two fantastic sides.
Home advantage counts for a heck of a lot.
It didn't seem like a dig at Leinster or even the set up of the competition to me.

That was exactly my point, but some Irish preciousness immediately jumped in.

TBF, there's a lot of bleating about Leinster having an unfair advantage getting home ties, when there was no such bleating when La Rochelle and Toulouse had actual home stadium (not home country, but their own actual home stadia) semi final ties in 2021, or Exeter had in 2020. Not a peep out of anyone. But Leinster have home country advantage, earned through performance and the laws of the competition, and all of a sudden commentators are up in arms about how unfair it is.

Seriously?

You want to compare it to the two pandemic years when there were no crowds in the stadium?

That's somehow equivalent to 50,000 in the Aviva?

If anything, you're proving the point about what's been said earlier in the thread.

[CM11]

Leinster have been playing semis in Lansdowne Road since the very first European Cup. Why is it suddenly a 'new' issue, nearly 30 years into the comp?

[clydecloggie]

Leinster have been playing semis in Lansdowne Road since the very first European Cup. Why is it suddenly a 'new' issue, nearly 30 years into the comp?

No idea why, but my guess would be the abject failure of Premiership clubs and English rugby in general has reinvigorated an anti-Irish sentiment.

Funnily enough, I thought there always was a rule that semis had to be played in a stadium at least 100 or 150km from the top-seeded side's home ground. I vaguely recall Glasgow had to get permission to nominate Murrayfield as the SF location because it was too close to Glasgow but the only other option in Scotland (they've never actually needed it as they habitually lost their QF to Sarries). Have I just made that up or was there such a rule? Might be that Ireland simply doesn't have a large-enough stadium outside of Dublin.