I wonder who this is...................

[sockwithaticket]

While it's creepy given the likely age gap, is there actually anything illegal in one person over the age of consent paying another person over the age of consent for naked photos?

Also the fucking gall of The Sun to be going in on someone getting their rocks off to a 17 year old when they paid 16 year olds to appear on page 3 in the not so distant past!

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

[Biffer]

Older wealthy man financially supporting a young lover who happens to be a drug addled. Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.

This is a nothing to see here thing for you?

An older and person in the public spotlight for integrity, paying a child for sex pics. S(he) is paid a large amount and develops a bad drug habit.

This is just a bit seedy but fine with you?

If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted.

Otherwise, there's nothing illegal. It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely, but nit illegal.

[Biffer]

While it's creepy given the likely age gap, is there actually anything illegal in one person over the age of consent paying another person over the age of consent for naked photos?

Also the fucking gall of The Sun to be going in on someone getting their rocks off to a 17 year old when they paid 16 year olds to appear on page 3 in the not so distant past!

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I had a one night stand with an 18/19 year old when I was 32. She absolutely flung herself at me - New town, new people etc.

[Biffer]

Older wealthy man financially supporting a young lover who happens to be a drug addled. Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.

Tomorrow these same rags will be fawning over a disgraced former PM, welcoming another sprog, spawned with a women 24 years his junior, whom he groomed , while in a position of power.

And he has given the name Odysseus, who left his wife for years and years and encountered (ahem) multiple women during that time.

Parents don't give their children names related to their ambitions though.

[Ymx]

Sock/Biffer

Well let’s see and hope he gets his just desserts. Especially if the victim is hiding away from it.

A public figure who prominently reads the news of a publicly funded world renowned news source, YES ! you’re damned right they need to be held to high standards. It worries me you think otherwise?

Creepy lefties !

[SaintK]

Older wealthy man financially supporting a young lover who happens to be a drug addled. Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.

This is a nothing to see here thing for you?

An older and person in the public spotlight for integrity, paying a child for sex pics. S(he) is paid a large amount and develops a bad drug habit.

This is just a bit seedy but fine with you?

If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted.

Otherwise, there's nothing illegal. It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely, but nit illegal.

Probably best if we get the full details from a source that isn’t The Sun

[Ymx]

This is a nothing to see here thing for you?

An older and person in the public spotlight for integrity, paying a child for sex pics. S(he) is paid a large amount and develops a bad drug habit.

This is just a bit seedy but fine with you?

If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted.

Otherwise, there's nothing illegal. It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely, but nit illegal.

Probably best if we get the full details from a source that isn’t The Sun

Well certainly not the BBC either.

[Biffer]

Sock/Biffer

Well let’s see and hope he gets his just desserts. Especially if the victim is hiding away from it.

A public figure who prominently reads the news of a publicly funded world renowned news source, YES ! you’re damned right they need to be held to high standards. It worries me you think otherwise?

Creepy lefties !

Uh, no, I said his career was done.

[sturginho]

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I had a one night stand with an 18/19 year old when I was 32. She absolutely flung herself at me - New town, new people etc.

That brag is not even thinly veiled!

[sockwithaticket]

Sock/Biffer

Well let’s see and hope he gets his just desserts. Especially if the victim is hiding away from it.

A public figure who prominently reads the news of a publicly funded world renowned news source, YES ! you’re damned right they need to be held to high standards. It worries me you think otherwise?

Creepy lefties !

My views on whether something's right or wrong are entirely independent of someone's social standing. Prince or pauper should be punished the same if they've done wrong.

That said, you seem to consider newsreaders to have much higher social standing and responsibility than I'd give them. Maybe it's because my generation barely watch the news and tend to get it from written web sources.

[sockwithaticket]

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I had a one night stand with an 18/19 year old when I was 32. She absolutely flung herself at me - New town, new people etc.

Good for you I guess? Did you and your mates never use the half your age + 7 equation?

The power imbalance in relationships stemming from gaps in life experience and maturity tend to present in relationships rather than one night stands.

[Kawazaki]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

[Biffer]

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I had a one night stand with an 18/19 year old when I was 32. She absolutely flung herself at me - New town, new people etc.

Good for you I guess? Did you and your mates never use the half your age + 7 equation?

The power imbalance in relationships stemming from gaps in life experience and maturity tend to present in relationships rather than one night stands.

I'm not actually that proud of it, we'd just been chatting with them (me and a mate in our usual pub to watch sport), they'd been in the country for a few days and I asked her where she was staying. She said 'your place'. Only time in my life something like that has happened.

Point I was making is that shouldn't really be criminal

[Torquemada 1420]

Older wealthy man financially supporting a young lover who happens to be a drug addled. Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.

This is a nothing to see here thing for you?

An older and person in the public spotlight for integrity, paying a child for sex pics. S(he) is paid a large amount and develops a bad drug habit.

This is just a bit seedy but fine with you?

Not seeing the connection between money and drug habit. Not everyone who gets lots of money is a junkie. OS for example.

[Ymx]

Sock/Biffer

Well let’s see and hope he gets his just desserts. Especially if the victim is hiding away from it.

A public figure who prominently reads the news of a publicly funded world renowned news source, YES ! you’re damned right they need to be held to high standards. It worries me you think otherwise?

Creepy lefties !

Uh, no, I said his career was done.

You said this

“I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.”

[CM11]

While it's creepy given the likely age gap, is there actually anything illegal in one person over the age of consent paying another person over the age of consent for naked photos?

Also the fucking gall of The Sun to be going in on someone getting their rocks off to a 17 year old when they paid 16 year olds to appear on page 3 in the not so distant past!

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I think a general within a few years from the age of consent to maybe 19/20 is more appropriate. No one older than 18 for a 16 year old is fair enough but make it 19 for 17 year old. You might stretch it to three years 18 and 19 year olds. Gives a little protection and pause to think for the older adults. I think once you hit 20/21 you're getting into nanny state, if not there already.

[I like neeps]

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I think a general within a few years from the age of consent to maybe 19/20 is more appropriate. No one older than 18 for a 16 year old is fair enough but make it 19 for 17 year old. You might stretch it to three years 18 and 19 year olds. Gives a little protection and pause to think for the older adults. I think once you hit 20/21 you're getting into nanny state, if not there already.

What about if a "model" on only fans and with pornstars there should be age verification so older men can't view 18-21 year olds? Which is more relevant to what actually happened here.

[fishfoodie]

He’s a public figure who may or may not read the news. He’s a beacon for the bbc.

Actually isn’t 18 the age needed for explicit material?

Either way, this child was not allowed to vote yet.

He’s a filthy old scum bag, if true.

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I think a general within a few years from the age of consent to maybe 19/20 is more appropriate. No one older than 18 for a 16 year old is fair enough but make it 19 for 17 year old. You might stretch it to three years 18 and 19 year olds. Gives a little protection and pause to think for the older adults. I think once you hit 20/21 you're getting into nanny state, if not there already.

This whole area of law is hideously complicated, & should be approached with incredible caution !

As a rough guide, you should look at what's in Irish law, & then make sure you don't do that !

We're an object lesson is why they say "Hard cases make for bad law". The infamous X-Case in Ireland led to both a first stab at codifying a legal route to Abortion, & an initial reform of the statutory rape Laws. Unfortunately, the latter has been in a state of permanent flux ever since, as the State tried to remove the, "honest mistake" defense, & when it was finally challenged, it was found to be unconstitutional, in a decision that didn't surprise a single lawyer, but the Politicians pretended it was a shock.

The latest ticking time bomb in the law is around different scenarios where it is, & isn't an offense if the age delta between those having sex isn't significant, BUT, for some moronic reason the legislators decided to say it's an offense if an 18 year old boy has sex with a 15 year old girl; but if a 18 year old girl has sex with a 15 year old boy, there's no problem

I'd put the distinction between the age of consent of having sex, & taking erotic pictures on the same level of stupidity. If the State has decided that there would be no problem, however creepy, of these two people meeting & having sex, but there is in the swapping dick pics, then the law is yet again, an ass !

None of this is to say I don't find the alleged behavior of this person creepy, but hell lots of shit that people do I may objectionable, but if it's consensual, WTF is it to do with me or anyone else ?

[Biffer]

Sock/Biffer

Well let’s see and hope he gets his just desserts. Especially if the victim is hiding away from it.

A public figure who prominently reads the news of a publicly funded world renowned news source, YES ! you’re damned right they need to be held to high standards. It worries me you think otherwise?

Creepy lefties !

Uh, no, I said his career was done.

You said this

“I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.”

I didn’t say that.

[CM11]

Well it should be a slam dunk case then, right? In which case the offender will get his just deserts.

Creepy, yet legal relationships happen all the time, however much we wish they wouldn't. I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.

By the way I'm very much in favour of a change to our age of consent laws to eliminate creep possibilities. Ideally no one older than 18 could be with a 16 or 17 year old and I'd be tempted to bring in some sort of upper limit age for the rest of the teen years too, although 18 being age of majority for voting and thus an adult in the eyes of the law would complicate this. Having known an 18 year old at uni chuck her immediate future away on a predatory 37 year old who got her pregnant, I remain convinced that something can and should be done in that area.

I think a general within a few years from the age of consent to maybe 19/20 is more appropriate. No one older than 18 for a 16 year old is fair enough but make it 19 for 17 year old. You might stretch it to three years 18 and 19 year olds. Gives a little protection and pause to think for the older adults. I think once you hit 20/21 you're getting into nanny state, if not there already.

This whole area of law is hideously complicated, & should be approached with incredible caution !

As a rough guide, you should look at what's in Irish law, & then make sure you don't do that !

We're an object lesson is why they say "Hard cases make for bad law". The infamous X-Case in Ireland led to both a first stab at codifying a legal route to Abortion, & an initial reform of the statutory rape Laws. Unfortunately, the latter has been in a state of permanent flux ever since, as the State tried to remove the, "honest mistake" defense, & when it was finally challenged, it was found to be unconstitutional, in a decision that didn't surprise a single lawyer, but the Politicians pretended it was a shock.

The latest ticking time bomb in the law is around different scenarios where it is, & isn't an offense if the age delta between those having sex isn't significant, BUT, for some moronic reason the legislators decided to say it's an offense if an 18 year old boy has sex with a 15 year old girl; but if a 18 year old girl has sex with a 15 year old boy, there's no problem

I'd put the distinction between the age of consent of having sex, & taking erotic pictures on the same level of stupidity. If the State has decided that there would be no problem, however creepy, of these two people meeting & having sex, but there is in the swapping dick pics, then the law is yet again, an ass !

None of this is to say I don't find the alleged behavior of this person creepy, but hell lots of shit that people do I may objectionable, but if it's consensual, WTF is it to do with me or anyone else ?

Interesting points.

[Ymx]

Uh, no, I said his career was done.

You said this

“I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.”

I didn’t say that.

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

[Ymx]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

Did you have to pay for it?

[Kawazaki]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

Did you have to pay for it?

Are you familiar with what WhatsApp is?

[Ymx]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

Did you have to pay for it?

Are you familiar with what WhatsApp is?

whooshy

[C69]

American news sites are now openly naming the man and South Wales police confirmed they are aware of the man.

I suspect given a history of severe and prolonged depression the individual will not want to be interviewed at present.

[TB63]

American news sites are now openly naming the man and South Wales police confirmed they are aware of the man.

I suspect given a history of severe and prolonged depression the individual will not want to be interviewed at present.

Got a link for that? A certain persons mother lives up the road from me in llangenith, but that person resides in Dulwich as far as I'm aware..

[sockwithaticket]

You said this

“I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.”

I didn’t say that.

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

You're such a weirdo.

As I clarified, I believe in people getting the same punishments if they've committed offences. Hence not thinking the occupation of newsreader is relevant.

[Biffer]

You said this

“I'm not sure why whether or not someone reads the news should be relevant.”

I didn’t say that.

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

Fuck off you wanker.

If you can’t see the context and understand the word, If, you have a major fucking problem. But we all knew that already. Crawl back under a fucking rock and play with yourself.

[Ymx]

I didn’t say that.

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

You're such a weirdo.

As I clarified, I believe in people getting the same punishments if they've committed offences. Hence not thinking the occupation of newsreader is relevant.

In law terms that should be true. Though, for careers, and news, it should be very much different for someone who is a significant public figure, responsible for presenting the bbc news. Likewise for people such as teachers.

[Ymx]

I didn’t say that.

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

Fuck off you wanker.

If you can’t see the context and understand the word, If, you have a major fucking problem. But we all knew that already. Crawl back under a fucking rock and play with yourself.

You outright posted a nothing to see here post. Completely trying to diminish it. Creep.

[SaintK]

You outright posted a nothing to see here post. Completely trying to diminish it. Creep.

Christ man, go and have a lie down or something!!

[Biffer]

Yeah, true, it was the other creep who that was in response to. So that was aimed at sock.


You were the nothing to see here one who went from

“Not really anything new, not really anything illegal, not really moral, not particularly pleasant.”
(non-story)

to

“If he paid money for pictures when they were under 18 it's a criminal act and he should be prosecuted

Otherwise, It makes him an immoral piece of shit, and hell lose his career most likely”
(convicted or piece of shit)

Fuck off you wanker.

If you can’t see the context and understand the word, If, you have a major fucking problem. But we all knew that already. Crawl back under a fucking rock and play with yourself.

You outright posted a nothing to see here post. Completely trying to diminish it. Creep.

I’m not going to bother explaining to you, because you are a halfwit.

[SaintK]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

No!
Are you inferring that a married Welshman with 5 kids who presents the BBC News and other things maybe involved?

[Torquemada 1420]

American news sites are now openly naming the man and South Wales police confirmed they are aware of the man.

I suspect given a history of severe and prolonged depression the individual will not want to be interviewed at present.

LINK?

[I like neeps]

Has anyone else been sent that picture of (what looks like) Huw Edwards via WhatsApp?

No!
Are you inferring that a married Welshman with 5 kids who presents the BBC News and other things maybe involved?

If it's even real, you never know anymore in AI deepfake world.

[Sandstorm]

£35k for photos.

[sockwithaticket]

£35k for photos.

People sink thousands into Only Fans too apparently. Supposedly the greater sense of personalisation or exclusivity is worth it to some people vs. the free stuff the vast majority of people get off the internet if they feel the need to see someone naked.

[C69]

American news sites are now openly naming the man and South Wales police confirmed they are aware of the man.

I suspect given a history of severe and prolonged depression the individual will not want to be interviewed at present.

Got a link for that? A certain persons mother lives up the road from me in llangenith, but that person resides in Dulwich as far as I'm aware..

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-07-11/sou ... e-of-adult

[Hal Jordan]

£35k for photos.

People sink thousands into Only Fans too apparently. Supposedly the greater sense of personalisation or exclusivity is worth it to some people vs. the free stuff the vast majority of people get off the internet if they feel the need to see someone naked.

Or so your friend tells you?

[sockwithaticket]

£35k for photos.

People sink thousands into Only Fans too apparently. Supposedly the greater sense of personalisation or exclusivity is worth it to some people vs. the free stuff the vast majority of people get off the internet if they feel the need to see someone naked.

Or so your friend tells you?

I'd read a couple of articles about 'the rise of OnlyFans' anyway, but yes, a genuine case of my friend told me. Down the pub a few months ago it came up and he confessed to having briefly (of course plenty of doubt was cast over this) subbed to one to see what it was like. He echoed the sentiment above that I'd gleaned from the articles, though I'd be surprised if he'd been able to drop some of teh extreme sounding sums they bandied around.