Scabnose out!!!!!!

[petej]

The obvious choice in England would be Mark McCall (sarries were cheats but you can spend loads and still be shit). Wouldn't want Farrell snr anywhere near the England set up until Farrell junior has retired. Lancaster might not be the best head coach and his teams tend to lose at the wrong time but a superb development coach.

England are going to be shite again as they need to play a bit more but won't stick long enough with it to develop it and will revert to conservative negative shite rugby and play not to lose rather than to win. Borthwick is caught between short and long term requirements will try to do both and fail at both.

Jones reached the end ages ago and should never have had his contract extended and we would be just as shite with him still in place.

[SaintK]

The obvious choice in England would be Mark McCall (sarries were cheats but you can spend loads and still be shit). Wouldn't want Farrell snr anywhere near the England set up until Farrell junior has retired. Lancaster might not be the best head coach and his teams tend to lose at the wrong time but a superb development coach.

England are going to be shite again as they need to play a bit more but won't stick long enough with it to develop it and will revert to conservative negative shite rugby and play not to lose rather than to win. Borthwick is caught between short and long term requirements will try to do both and fail at both.

Jones reached the end ages ago and should never have had his contract extended and we would be just as shite with him still in place.

There is no development pathway. It was basically dismantled when funding was cut some years ago.
Can someone tell me what exactly does Conor O'Shea do for his £300k a year?

[C69]

Pretty poor that the Marler head contact was ignored.
It looked to me that it was hhigh but without any further angles etc it is difficult to say.

It was dismissed immediately, I hope this does not come back to bite the officials on the arse.
Can he still be cited?

[ASMO]

Pretty poor that the Marler head contact was ignored.
It looked to me that it was hhigh but without any further angles etc it is difficult to say.

It was dismissed immediately, I hope this does not come back to bite the officials on the arse.
Can he still be cited?

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

[C69]

Pretty poor that the Marler head contact was ignored.
It looked to me that it was hhigh but without any further angles etc it is difficult to say.

It was dismissed immediately, I hope this does not come back to bite the officials on the arse.
Can he still be cited?

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

[SaintK]

Pretty poor that the Marler head contact was ignored.
It looked to me that it was hhigh but without any further angles etc it is difficult to say.

It was dismissed immediately, I hope this does not come back to bite the officials on the arse.
Can he still be cited?

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

Didn't Peyper tell the Fijian captain they'd looked at in the background?

[C69]

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

Didn't Peyper tell the Fijian captain they'd looked at in the background?

I believe he said they had lookedat all the angles available and there was no foul play.
From the one angle I have seen it looked like clear head contact.
Strange as feck

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

Didn't Peyper tell the Fijian captain they'd looked at in the background?

I believe he said they had lookedat all the angles available and there was no foul play.
From the one angle I have seen it looked like clear head contact.
Strange as feck

Peyper refers it to the TMO initially and during their discussions - which I only have Peyper's side of - says there's no angle that shows clear head contact. He also adds that if something clear comes up "we'll definitely deal with it"

[Simian]

has anyone a link to the other angles? live, it looked a clear card to me.

edit: broadcast footage here https://www.planetrugby.com/news/watch- ... ful-tackle

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Pretty poor that the Marler head contact was ignored.
It looked to me that it was hhigh but without any further angles etc it is difficult to say.

It was dismissed immediately, I hope this does not come back to bite the officials on the arse.
Can he still be cited?

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

Nothing remotely arrogant from the ref. His TMO is telling him they've reviewed the footage and it's not foul play.

It could be a mistake from the TMO, and a lot of England fans might not be upset if we got les Marler and more VRR, but those are separate to what the ref did, frankly what else could the ref do if he didn't get a good first look?

[C69]

Yes, and other angles since seen show there is a strong case for a red card

Thanks, not seen the other angles. the way it was arrogantly waved away by the ref was very strange.
Usually they would have at least had a look. Why the feck did they not just have a look?

Nothing remotely arrogant from the ref. His TMO is telling him they've reviewed the footage and it's not foul play.

It could be a mistake from the TMO, and a lot of England fans might not be upset if we got les Marler and more VRR, but those are separate to what the ref did, frankly what else could the ref do if he didn't get a good first look?

He was supremely arrogant.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

He was supremely arrogant.

Ideally he'd have done us a favour issuing red cards to Marler and Cole for the infringement, but I can see why he went with working alongside his team

And I'm not actually sure what Marler's defence would be, he could claim he was surprised to find himself tackling, but that's getting into Steward on Keenan territory, in that he's going forwards into contact presenting a danger to his opponent even if he's surprised, and for mine he needs to be more passive to make such defence. Or maybe there's footage showing he connected lower and rode up mitigating it below a red

[JM2K6]

Nope, he was always upright really and while the ball carrier is definitely tackled by someone else, from the replay I saw it didn't look enough of a drop in height to be mitigation. He is wrapping but that's about it. Surprised he wasn't cited.

Nothing arrogant from the ref and it has nothing to do with Borthwick needing to be binned but hey

[Ymx]

Why is there two threads?

This one being the original

[JM2K6]

'cause this one was started as a pisstake, like you noticed in your first reply

[Ymx]

Doesn’t matter, it’s the original.

So you sulked and created a duplicate??

[Ymx]

Anyway. I’m just sulking too.

I need a cat to kick after this weekend

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Vexing Marler isn't remotely ready to get lower, not to make a tackle, and not to contest the ball if his team mate makes a tackle, why doesn't that look a chance to be first man over the ball? Do we not even want the ball to attack when chasing a game

[Uncle fester]

Why is there two threads?

This one being the original

Perfidious albions are an ungrateful and suspicious lot.

[JM2K6]

Doesn’t matter, it’s the original.

So you sulked and created a duplicate??

It does matter a little bit, in that it's an Irishman mocking the English. And the thread had been dead for six weeks when I created my one, which is for English people venting about Borthwick.

But ultimately anyone can make threads about anything. Fester can make a thread poking fun at the English. I can make a thread to be angry at Borthwick. Sefton can make a thread to congratulate Fiji even though there's no Fijians here so he can feel morally superior. Torq can make a thread to post the location of the favourite cafe of whichever referee has upset him this week. You can post a thread about your favourite translation of Mein Kampf. It's all just threads on a niche forum.

[Ymx]

Doesn’t matter, it’s the original.

So you sulked and created a duplicate??

It does matter a little bit, in that it's an Irishman mocking the English. And the thread had been dead for six weeks when I created my one, which is for English people venting about Borthwick.

But ultimately anyone can make threads about anything. Fester can make a thread poking fun at the English. I can make a thread to be angry at Borthwick. Sefton can make a thread to congratulate Fiji even though there's no Fijians here so he can feel morally superior. Torq can make a thread to post the location of the favourite cafe of whichever referee has upset him this week. You can post a thread about your favourite translation of Mein Kampf. It's all just threads on a niche forum.

Oh well done. You twisted it from you creating duplicate threads (out of some inner need to grandstand?), to calling me a Nazi.

So clever.

[Ymx]

Anyway, should probably merge the threads as we do in these cases.

[average joe]

Anyway. I’m just sulking too.

I need a cat to kick after this weekend

Wife out of town?

[Guy Smiley]

Anyway, should probably merge the threads as we do in these cases.

Or continue to feed the duplicate as you do when it's your creation?

[Ymx]

Anyway. I’m just sulking too.

I need a cat to kick after this weekend

Wife out of town?

Unlike others, I’m not that kind of kiwi - to abuse family.

A cats’ fair game though.

[JM2K6]

Doesn’t matter, it’s the original.

So you sulked and created a duplicate??

It does matter a little bit, in that it's an Irishman mocking the English. And the thread had been dead for six weeks when I created my one, which is for English people venting about Borthwick.

But ultimately anyone can make threads about anything. Fester can make a thread poking fun at the English. I can make a thread to be angry at Borthwick. Sefton can make a thread to congratulate Fiji even though there's no Fijians here so he can feel morally superior. Torq can make a thread to post the location of the favourite cafe of whichever referee has upset him this week. You can post a thread about your favourite translation of Mein Kampf. It's all just threads on a niche forum.

Oh well done. You twisted it from you creating duplicate threads (out of some inner need to grandstand?), to calling me a Nazi.

So clever.

It was a joke. You were hardly the only target.

And no, no grandstanding. I created my thread as a genuine English version of the Foster Out thread. I didn't even remember Fester's pisstake as it was dead and buried at the time, but also it's a thread for taking the piss out of England and England fans.

[Torquemada 1420]

Anyway. I’m just sulking too.

I need a cat to kick after this weekend

No obliging immigrants when you were at the South coast?

[fishfoodie]

Anyway. I’m just sulking too.

I need a cat to kick after this weekend

No obliging immigrants when you were at the South coast?

They were all in the 5* hotels, & ymx couldn't get a booking in one

[Uncle fester]

It does matter a little bit, in that it's an Irishman mocking the English. And the thread had been dead for six weeks when I created my one, which is for English people venting about Borthwick.

But ultimately anyone can make threads about anything. Fester can make a thread poking fun at the English. I can make a thread to be angry at Borthwick. Sefton can make a thread to congratulate Fiji even though there's no Fijians here so he can feel morally superior. Torq can make a thread to post the location of the favourite cafe of whichever referee has upset him this week. You can post a thread about your favourite translation of Mein Kampf. It's all just threads on a niche forum.

Oh well done. You twisted it from you creating duplicate threads (out of some inner need to grandstand?), to calling me a Nazi.

So clever.

It was a joke. You were hardly the only target.

And no, no grandstanding. I created my thread as a genuine English version of the Foster Out thread. I didn't even remember Fester's pisstake as it was dead and buried at the time, but also it's a thread for taking the piss out of England and England fans.

I would never do such a thing!

[JM2K6]

Oh well done. You twisted it from you creating duplicate threads (out of some inner need to grandstand?), to calling me a Nazi.

So clever.

It was a joke. You were hardly the only target.

And no, no grandstanding. I created my thread as a genuine English version of the Foster Out thread. I didn't even remember Fester's pisstake as it was dead and buried at the time, but also it's a thread for taking the piss out of England and England fans.

I would never do such a thing!

The absolute worst thing about this entire interaction is that it completely undermines the spirit with which I took this thread originally and now I look like an accountant getting mad over office supplies

[Ymx]

Yeah, you’ve changed, you have.

Used to be so full of joy and life

[JM2K6]

Yeah, you’ve changed, you have.

Used to be so full of joy and life

What was it you said when we met? "I hadn't realised you're actually taking the piss most of the time"? Not my fault you're oblivious. Maybe you missed all the obviously unserious posts I'd made in this thread on the first page!

[Uncle fester]

Yeah, you’ve changed, you have.

Used to be so full of joy and life

What was it you said when we met? "I hadn't realised you're actually taking the piss most of the time"? Not my fault you're oblivious. Maybe you missed all the obviously unserious posts I'd made in this thread on the first page!

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

[lemonhead]

What coach was he captain under?

Johnson. There were a couple of games in that era where we just barely squeaked past Italy, played like a bunch of spackers and Borthers would come out to tell us it was an excellent performance.

Gawd yeah, remember that now. Did Johnson have any coaching experience under his belt at all?

Still can't fathom how he got the gig. Remember some article in the Times just after the announcement, along the lines of "Ashton lost control but Jonno will crack some skulls, get them into line hur hur etc.".

Kinda forgetting that a) he's not allowed on field with them anymore (b) is sat 300ft away in the stands and (c) has NEVER COACHED BEFORE.

You'd think they'd have even fluked a good setup by n.....oh, in fact they did ten years ago. Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt all under the same roof. RFU so pleased with the results they gave them a 6 year contract regardless of the 2015 RWC campaign, for the sake of continuity. And then dumped the lot, every one having great success here in Ireland ever since. Which we're all hugely grateful for.

Don't even support England and still infuriating how much they've underachieved since 2003.

[fishfoodie]

Johnson. There were a couple of games in that era where we just barely squeaked past Italy, played like a bunch of spackers and Borthers would come out to tell us it was an excellent performance.

Gawd yeah, remember that now. Did Johnson have any coaching experience under his belt at all?

Still can't fathom how he got the gig. Remember some article in the Times just after the announcement, along the lines of "Ashton lost control but Jonno will crack some skulls, get them into line hur hur etc.".

Kinda forgetting that a) he's not allowed on field with them anymore (b) is sat 300ft away in the stands and (c) has NEVER COACHED BEFORE.

You'd think they'd have even fluked a good setup by n.....oh, in fact they did ten years ago. Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt all under the same roof. RFU so pleased with the results they gave them a 6 year contract regardless of the 2015 RWC campaign, for the sake of continuity. And then dumped the lot, every one having great success here in Ireland ever since. Which we're all hugely grateful for.

Don't even support England and still infuriating how much they've underachieved since 2003.

A big part of the difference, & something that isn't resolvable, for an England coach, is that even when a player is back with their Province, the National coach can't significantly influence what the player is working on, & how many minutes they play, etc, etc

Scabnose might want his FB to work on his alignment in defense, but there's SFA he can do about that; & because his player pool is spread across a significantly larger number of teams, he has a much harder job getting combinations to have the time together to gel.

[lemonhead]

Not something unique to England though. Other countries have players spread across the globe in different hemispheres and still manage to bring it together with limited prep time.

[Joost]

In-terms of what might have been re England coaching regimes - in a way England messed up by reaching the final in 2007, which meant that the RFU felt it had to keep Ashton (who was just hired on a temp basis for the RWC after Robbo f!cked it) rather than hiring Warren Gatland, who seemed all set to be the next England coach. Gatland promptly got snapped-up by Wales, took Shaun Edwards (who the RFU offered the England Saxons job to to try and keep him - another f up) and we all know what happened next!

Hiring Johnno was nuts, Lancaster was initially a caretaker but did well enough in his first 6N to get the gig - almost managed to hire Wayne Smith as backs coach and you wonder what effect that would have had, as the one toting Lancaster and co never managed to crack was a workable centre combo. Believe he was offered a lesser role in the England development setup but didn’t want it after the way the RFU had treated him.

Jones was a good hire, but given too long a contract after the 2019 RWC and then binned a year later than he should have been. Borthwick and his coaching team are looking way out of their depth.

Basically, the RFU has a terrible record of appointing coaches and managing them once they have been hired - keeping ones who’ve gone sour too long, not keeping on good terms with those who still have something to offer. If Borthwick does get binned after the RWC, who on earth would be up for replacing him!

[Ymx]

Foster is free after the RWC

[Joost]

Foster is free after the RWC

Sounds like Steve Hansen will go anywhere for a few quid too

I reckon John Mitchell might come in - already with the England women’s team, has been an England coach twice before, has a good record of failing as a head coach - everything the RFU blazers could want!

[Paddington Bear]

Johnson. There were a couple of games in that era where we just barely squeaked past Italy, played like a bunch of spackers and Borthers would come out to tell us it was an excellent performance.

Gawd yeah, remember that now. Did Johnson have any coaching experience under his belt at all?

Still can't fathom how he got the gig. Remember some article in the Times just after the announcement, along the lines of "Ashton lost control but Jonno will crack some skulls, get them into line hur hur etc.".

Kinda forgetting that a) he's not allowed on field with them anymore (b) is sat 300ft away in the stands and (c) has NEVER COACHED BEFORE.

You'd think they'd have even fluked a good setup by n.....oh, in fact they did ten years ago. Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt all under the same roof. RFU so pleased with the results they gave them a 6 year contract regardless of the 2015 RWC campaign, for the sake of continuity. And then dumped the lot, every one having great success here in Ireland ever since. Which we're all hugely grateful for.

Don't even support England and still infuriating how much they've underachieved since 2003.

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest