Scabnose out!!!!!!

[Sandstorm]

Gawd yeah, remember that now. Did Johnson have any coaching experience under his belt at all?

Still can't fathom how he got the gig. Remember some article in the Times just after the announcement, along the lines of "Ashton lost control but Jonno will crack some skulls, get them into line hur hur etc.".

Kinda forgetting that a) he's not allowed on field with them anymore (b) is sat 300ft away in the stands and (c) has NEVER COACHED BEFORE.

You'd think they'd have even fluked a good setup by n.....oh, in fact they did ten years ago. Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt all under the same roof. RFU so pleased with the results they gave them a 6 year contract regardless of the 2015 RWC campaign, for the sake of continuity. And then dumped the lot, every one having great success here in Ireland ever since. Which we're all hugely grateful for.

Don't even support England and still infuriating how much they've underachieved since 2003.

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest

Indeed. Plus with so many English clubs folding financially it’s not a good future either.

[lemonhead]

In-terms of what might have been re England coaching regimes - in a way England messed up by reaching the final in 2007, which meant that the RFU felt it had to keep Ashton (who was just hired on a temp basis for the RWC after Robbo f!cked it) rather than hiring Warren Gatland, who seemed all set to be the next England coach. Gatland promptly got snapped-up by Wales, took Shaun Edwards (who the RFU offered the England Saxons job to to try and keep him - another f up) and we all know what happened next!

Hiring Johnno was nuts, Lancaster was initially a caretaker but did well enough in his first 6N to get the gig - almost managed to hire Wayne Smith as backs coach and you wonder what effect that would have had, as the one toting Lancaster and co never managed to crack was a workable centre combo. Believe he was offered a lesser role in the England development setup but didn’t want it after the way the RFU had treated him.

Jones was a good hire, but given too long a contract after the 2019 RWC and then binned a year later than he should have been. Borthwick and his coaching team are looking way out of their depth.

Basically, the RFU has a terrible record of appointing coaches and managing them once they have been hired - keeping ones who’ve gone sour too long, not keeping on good terms with those who still have something to offer. If Borthwick does get binned after the RWC, who on earth would be up for replacing him!

True, for all the prestige and (presumably now declining) money it looks like the proverbial chalice. So goddamn reactionary.

Again, given an indefinite contract and Ashton didn't even make it to the end of the Six Nations. Sacked him just before they put 30pts on us at Twickenham.

Agree, no one should be enjoying this. Incredibly bad timing for the game in England and will have consequences.

[JM2K6]

Yeah, you’ve changed, you have.

Used to be so full of joy and life

What was it you said when we met? "I hadn't realised you're actually taking the piss most of the time"? Not my fault you're oblivious. Maybe you missed all the obviously unserious posts I'd made in this thread on the first page!

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

[Torquemada 1420]

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest

It's not really a parallel though.

Fra have underachieved (certainly at RWC level) for the entirety of the pro era. A long way to go before the Eng malaise can be put in the same time context.

The roots of the problems are VERY different.
Fra has reduced the impact of many of its own, self-imposed handicaps
- too many foreign players
- lack of sporting professionalism in areas of fitness, nutrition and most elements of training (not the high ball........). Note sports psychology is largely non-existent still and
you can see the impact of Edwards and ROG in that regards.
It's not perfect
- still far too many games
- and professionalism has come at a cost with the "death" of top level rugby in the traditional heartlands as the power has shifted to major cities, most of whom were bit part players in the past. Interest and playing numbers are still there in those areas: it's just now their ambitions are confined to Pro2 tops.

Fra never had attendance/participation issues throughout and this is the challenge I think Eng faces i.e. roots base up is still largely middle class up and if both the club and ntl game falter for long, it's easy to envisage interest falling. The reverse is true in Fra where in places like Paris where the immigrant populations played no rugby; now it's been embraced big style, bringing in a whole new section of society to the game (e.g. Slimani, Macalou, Cancoriet all coming from the tiny club my cousins played at).

[laurent]

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest

It's not really a parallel though.

Fra have underachieved (certainly at RWC level) for the entirety of the pro era. A long way to go before the Eng malaise can be put in the same time context.

The roots of the problems are VERY different.
Fra has reduced the impact of many of its own, self-imposed handicaps
- too many foreign players
- lack of sporting professionalism in areas of fitness, nutrition and most elements of training (not the high ball........). Note sports psychology is largely non-existent still and
you can see the impact of Edwards and ROG in that regards.
It's not perfect
- still far too many games
- and professionalism has come at a cost with the "death" of top level rugby in the traditional heartlands as the power has shifted to major cities, most of whom were bit part players in the past. Interest and playing numbers are still there in those areas: it's just now their ambitions are confined to Pro2 tops.

Fra never had attendance/participation issues throughout and this is the challenge I think Eng faces i.e. roots base up is still largely middle class up and if both the club and ntl game falter for long, it's easy to envisage interest falling. The reverse is true in Fra where in places like Paris where the immigrant populations played no rugby; now it's been embraced big style, bringing in a whole new section of society to the game (e.g. Slimani, Macalou, Cancoriet all coming from the tiny club my cousins played at).

Participation is down in France (at amateur level it's very noticeable). Laporte fiddled the numbers. These are relatively stable thanks to women's rugby growth and "baby rugby".

However the French team results did not look as bad as the English ones as the Top14 and ProD2 were doing well. The Jiff format that Laporte hated is actually responsible for a lot of the improvements we are seeing.

[sefton]

What was it you said when we met? "I hadn't realised you're actually taking the piss most of the time"? Not my fault you're oblivious. Maybe you missed all the obviously unserious posts I'd made in this thread on the first page!

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

Is this a serious post?

[Ymx]

Guys.

Is he joking or being serious now?

He’s so mysterious

[Ymx]

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

Is this a serious post?

Touché

[Ymx]

Hansen is probably not a bad shout.

He clearly has no soul, so could fit in well.

[Uncle fester]

What was it you said when we met? "I hadn't realised you're actually taking the piss most of the time"? Not my fault you're oblivious. Maybe you missed all the obviously unserious posts I'd made in this thread on the first page!

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

Was he dressed in black and what kind of a wave or salute did he give you?

[sefton]

That was a complete misunderstanding, he was merely pointing out the plane slightly overhead,.

[Paddington Bear]

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest

It's not really a parallel though.

Fra have underachieved (certainly at RWC level) for the entirety of the pro era. A long way to go before the Eng malaise can be put in the same time context.

The roots of the problems are VERY different.
Fra has reduced the impact of many of its own, self-imposed handicaps
- too many foreign players
- lack of sporting professionalism in areas of fitness, nutrition and most elements of training (not the high ball........). Note sports psychology is largely non-existent still and
you can see the impact of Edwards and ROG in that regards.
It's not perfect
- still far too many games
- and professionalism has come at a cost with the "death" of top level rugby in the traditional heartlands as the power has shifted to major cities, most of whom were bit part players in the past. Interest and playing numbers are still there in those areas: it's just now their ambitions are confined to Pro2 tops.

Fra never had attendance/participation issues throughout and this is the challenge I think Eng faces i.e. roots base up is still largely middle class up and if both the club and ntl game falter for long, it's easy to envisage interest falling. The reverse is true in Fra where in places like Paris where the immigrant populations played no rugby; now it's been embraced big style, bringing in a whole new section of society to the game (e.g. Slimani, Macalou, Cancoriet all coming from the tiny club my cousins played at).

French club attendances have always been healthy but it isn’t true to say France have always sold out their games, some of the crowds were desperate with the whole upper tier of the SdF empty for 6N games against Italy, swarms of home nations fans getting tickets etc

English rugby has a potentially intractable problem in that our largest immigrant communities are from South Asia and are a statistically irrelevant factor in the sport. My cricket league takes me into West London a lot and the difference in make up of sides and the size of clubs between that and the West London rugby club a mate plays at and I watch a few times a year is eye opening. France certainly appears more successful on that metric.

And yeah it’s no secret English rugby doesn’t really have a heartland in the way France does, and the increasingly middle class appeal of the Premier League is the elephant in the room for rugby’s long term future

[Torquemada 1420]

Fully appreciate that our current predicament is objectively funny, but much like when France were circling the drain it is not good for the sport to have one of its larger nations playing this poorly and struggling to ignite any sort of fan interest

It's not really a parallel though.

Fra have underachieved (certainly at RWC level) for the entirety of the pro era. A long way to go before the Eng malaise can be put in the same time context.

The roots of the problems are VERY different.
Fra has reduced the impact of many of its own, self-imposed handicaps
- too many foreign players
- lack of sporting professionalism in areas of fitness, nutrition and most elements of training (not the high ball........). Note sports psychology is largely non-existent still and
you can see the impact of Edwards and ROG in that regards.
It's not perfect
- still far too many games
- and professionalism has come at a cost with the "death" of top level rugby in the traditional heartlands as the power has shifted to major cities, most of whom were bit part players in the past. Interest and playing numbers are still there in those areas: it's just now their ambitions are confined to Pro2 tops.

Fra never had attendance/participation issues throughout and this is the challenge I think Eng faces i.e. roots base up is still largely middle class up and if both the club and ntl game falter for long, it's easy to envisage interest falling. The reverse is true in Fra where in places like Paris where the immigrant populations played no rugby; now it's been embraced big style, bringing in a whole new section of society to the game (e.g. Slimani, Macalou, Cancoriet all coming from the tiny club my cousins played at).

Participation is down in France (at amateur level it's very noticeable). Laporte fiddled the numbers. These are relatively stable thanks to women's rugby growth and "baby rugby".

However the French team results did not look as bad as the English ones as the Top14 and ProD2 were doing well. The Jiff format that Laporte hated is actually responsible for a lot of the improvements we are seeing.

Yup. JIFF is the single biggest factor and it's most noticeable in the U20 results. BTW, U20 winning team was at SdeF on Sunday at 1/2 time..... although typical of most of Paris crowd, they didn't even know they'd won the thing

I can't make sense of the amateur participation nos. I get the impression that is has been falling in the rural areas (e.g. SW) but, if anything, on the rise in and around city areas. Whether that nets out as an increase or fall, is unclear.

[Ymx]

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

Was he dressed in black and what kind of a wave or salute did he give you?

Don’t try and taint our special time together.

[Torquemada 1420]

French club attendances have always been healthy but it isn’t true to say France have always sold out their games, some of the crowds were desperate with the whole upper tier of the SdF empty for 6N games against Italy, swarms of home nations fans getting tickets etc

English rugby has a potentially intractable problem in that our largest immigrant communities are from South Asia and are a statistically irrelevant factor in the sport. My cricket league takes me into West London a lot and the difference in make up of sides and the size of clubs between that and the West London rugby club a mate plays at and I watch a few times a year is eye opening. France certainly appears more successful on that metric.

And yeah it’s no secret English rugby doesn’t really have a heartland in the way France does, and the increasingly middle class appeal of the Premier League is the elephant in the room for rugby’s long term future

The trouble there is using the SdeF as a metric. It's Paris and it's a long way and expensive for fans from trad areas to travel to for games. Especially ones of lower interest or significance. Not helped by the FFR's retarded policies of putting games on on a Friday or late on Sunday which f**ks up work. Games in places like Marseille and Lyon have never failed to sell out AFAIK. Also, there are plenty like me who had more interest in the club game than the ntl team.

Bit in bold is nail on head for me. I took a lot of flack for my observations of English rugby being in a crisis (e.g. calling it a "toff's game") but I stand by the assertion that unless you start making meaningful inroads into working class participation (and that means competing with football), Eng can never consistently sit at the top of the game again.

[laurent]

It's not really a parallel though.

Fra have underachieved (certainly at RWC level) for the entirety of the pro era. A long way to go before the Eng malaise can be put in the same time context.

The roots of the problems are VERY different.
Fra has reduced the impact of many of its own, self-imposed handicaps
- too many foreign players
- lack of sporting professionalism in areas of fitness, nutrition and most elements of training (not the high ball........). Note sports psychology is largely non-existent still and
you can see the impact of Edwards and ROG in that regards.
It's not perfect
- still far too many games
- and professionalism has come at a cost with the "death" of top level rugby in the traditional heartlands as the power has shifted to major cities, most of whom were bit part players in the past. Interest and playing numbers are still there in those areas: it's just now their ambitions are confined to Pro2 tops.

Fra never had attendance/participation issues throughout and this is the challenge I think Eng faces i.e. roots base up is still largely middle class up and if both the club and ntl game falter for long, it's easy to envisage interest falling. The reverse is true in Fra where in places like Paris where the immigrant populations played no rugby; now it's been embraced big style, bringing in a whole new section of society to the game (e.g. Slimani, Macalou, Cancoriet all coming from the tiny club my cousins played at).

Participation is down in France (at amateur level it's very noticeable). Laporte fiddled the numbers. These are relatively stable thanks to women's rugby growth and "baby rugby".

However the French team results did not look as bad as the English ones as the Top14 and ProD2 were doing well. The Jiff format that Laporte hated is actually responsible for a lot of the improvements we are seeing.

Yup. JIFF is the single biggest factor and it's most noticeable in the U20 results. BTW, U20 winning team was at SdeF on Sunday at 1/2 time..... although typical of most of Paris crowd, they didn't even know they'd won the thing

I can't make sense of the amateur participation nos. I get the impression that is has been falling in the rural areas (e.g. SW) but, if anything, on the rise in and around city areas. Whether that nets out as an increase or fall, is unclear.

There has been teams folding every year since I came back to France in series level and as high as Honneur and Promotion D'honneur. (We are now in Regionale 2 / old PH)
Most clubs need to pool their Under age levels in Paris area so numbers are dropping everywhere. My club is likely one the of the few that had number grow as we have a PE teacher that has gathered a lot of the collège (high school) kids to play for us so our U 12 U14 F15* and now F18** are playing without merging (we used to merge 2 3 clubs to field a team).

*F15 is Under 15 girls they play mix games with U14
**F18 is next category up U18 girls.

[Torquemada 1420]

Participation is down in France (at amateur level it's very noticeable). Laporte fiddled the numbers. These are relatively stable thanks to women's rugby growth and "baby rugby".

However the French team results did not look as bad as the English ones as the Top14 and ProD2 were doing well. The Jiff format that Laporte hated is actually responsible for a lot of the improvements we are seeing.

Yup. JIFF is the single biggest factor and it's most noticeable in the U20 results. BTW, U20 winning team was at SdeF on Sunday at 1/2 time..... although typical of most of Paris crowd, they didn't even know they'd won the thing

I can't make sense of the amateur participation nos. I get the impression that is has been falling in the rural areas (e.g. SW) but, if anything, on the rise in and around city areas. Whether that nets out as an increase or fall, is unclear.

There has been teams folding every year since I came back to France in series level and as high as Honneur and Promotion D'honneur. (We are now in Regionale 2 / old PH)
Most clubs need to pool their Under age levels in Paris area so numbers are dropping everywhere. My club is likely one the of the few that had number grow as we have a PE teacher that has gathered a lot of the collège (high school) kids to play for us so our U 12 U14 F15* and now F18** are playing without merging (we used to merge 2 3 clubs to field a team).

*F15 is Under 15 girls they play mix games with U14
**F18 is next category up U18 girls.

Do you think this is a knock on from COVID?

[Slick]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

[Torquemada 1420]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

I don't see the rationale for that. At least not directly. Every sport in the world is built from amateur foundations up to professional level.

Do you mean it's down to inadequate funding from the top of the game being fed into the lower levels. Or the peculiar complexity of rugby's laws and safety which makes it a lot harder (and costlier)
to run teams than, say, football?

[laurent]

Yup. JIFF is the single biggest factor and it's most noticeable in the U20 results. BTW, U20 winning team was at SdeF on Sunday at 1/2 time..... although typical of most of Paris crowd, they didn't even know they'd won the thing

I can't make sense of the amateur participation nos. I get the impression that is has been falling in the rural areas (e.g. SW) but, if anything, on the rise in and around city areas. Whether that nets out as an increase or fall, is unclear.

There has been teams folding every year since I came back to France in series level and as high as Honneur and Promotion D'honneur. (We are now in Regionale 2 / old PH)
Most clubs need to pool their Under age levels in Paris area so numbers are dropping everywhere. My club is likely one the of the few that had number grow as we have a PE teacher that has gathered a lot of the collège (high school) kids to play for us so our U 12 U14 F15* and now F18** are playing without merging (we used to merge 2 3 clubs to field a team).

*F15 is Under 15 girls they play mix games with U14
**F18 is next category up U18 girls.

Do you think this is a knock on from COVID?

This was before Covid (covid did impact some but it was already an issue) in some cases it had some positive impact with people missing social aspect.

[Paddington Bear]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

This is a factor but it’s societal as well, Sunday league football is cratering etc. People aren’t willing to commit to team sports as they used to

[Sandstorm]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

This is a factor but it’s societal as well, Sunday league football is cratering etc. People aren’t willing to commit to team sports as they used to

Gaming must also be a factor. My mate has two sons who used to love Junior Rugby - today all they want to do is PlayStation. They're 15 and 17 now and even girls don't get a look-in.

[Slick]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

I don't see the rationale for that. At least not directly. Every sport in the world is built from amateur foundations up to professional level.

Do you mean it's down to inadequate funding from the top of the game being fed into the lower levels. Or the peculiar complexity of rugby's laws and safety which makes it a lot harder (and costlier)
to run teams than, say, football?

Second point to a degree. The rules that came in about teams needing more front row replacements meant that lower teams couldn't get teams out and those players drifted away. The fact that you have kids at low levels bulking up meant that it became much more physical which put a lot of people off. Lower level teams 1stXV getting paid and bringing in whole new teams each year turned a lot of people off. Local Premiership teams hoovering up supporters to go and watch them instead of playing or supporting the local club on a Saturday had an impact. And of course the overall physicality of modern rugby has put parents off letting their kids play. It has been a disaster.

[Slick]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

This is a factor but it’s societal as well, Sunday league football is cratering etc. People aren’t willing to commit to team sports as they used to

Without a doubt. Although I do think with junior rugby clubs the changes in the game has significantly weakened that commitment as well.

[JM2K6]

Is there a way you could make it clearer for us to know?

This is disconcertingly like an argument with stats on the old bored. Either you have a Peter Cook-level talent for deadpan or you're like a circuit breaker popping when I drop the toaster into the bath.

I'm not having that, the posts on the first page are all pretty obviously not serious and very much in line with the thread. Also I met ymx years ago and I take the piss less often these days - the point is less that I'm always joking (which obviously isn't true these days) and more that he's terminally incapable of telling the difference. Enjoy your thread though, it's been more successful a fishing expedition than you could possibly have hoped for...

Was he dressed in black and what kind of a wave or salute did he give you?

I'm fairly sure he bought me a drink so a) I'm not going to reveal any hideously uncharitable secrets and b) it immediately puts him above Seneca at least, who will order a double whiskey on your tab as soon as you've been introduced to him

[JM2K6]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

I don't see the rationale for that. At least not directly. Every sport in the world is built from amateur foundations up to professional level.

Do you mean it's down to inadequate funding from the top of the game being fed into the lower levels. Or the peculiar complexity of rugby's laws and safety which makes it a lot harder (and costlier)
to run teams than, say, football?

Second point to a degree. The rules that came in about teams needing more front row replacements meant that lower teams couldn't get teams out and those players drifted away. The fact that you have kids at low levels bulking up meant that it became much more physical which put a lot of people off. Lower level teams 1stXV getting paid and bringing in whole new teams each year turned a lot of people off. Local Premiership teams hoovering up supporters to go and watch them instead of playing or supporting the local club on a Saturday had an impact. And of course the overall physicality of modern rugby has put parents off letting their kids play. It has been a disaster.

That was a point made in that interesting-but-misguided article comparing French rugby to English rugby - you either play it as an amateur or watch the professionals, you generally can't do both in this country.

[robmatic]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

This is a factor but it’s societal as well, Sunday league football is cratering etc. People aren’t willing to commit to team sports as they used to

Yeah, I have a younger nephew who is sporty and the local football leagues are nowhere near as popular as they used to be. Even his school (small rural comprehensive) struggled to put out a football team, which was unimaginable in my day.

[Paddington Bear]

It's a knock on from professionalism making rugby unsustainable at junior level. It's happening in every country

This is a factor but it’s societal as well, Sunday league football is cratering etc. People aren’t willing to commit to team sports as they used to

Yeah, I have a younger nephew who is sporty and the local football leagues are nowhere near as popular as they used to be. Even his school (small rural comprehensive) struggled to put out a football team, which was unimaginable in my day.

And 90% of people who do play are less committed than their predecessors 20+ years ago. Which means you need probably double the squad to fulfil your fixture card.
11 a side football is being killed by Powerleague and the fact you can watch football all weekend. Rugby has a similar issue as JMK intimates, but think Slick’s point around front rows etc is one of the bigger unique rugby factors.

I genuinely fear for grassroots rugby’s future outside of juniors.

[Sandstorm]

All the porky kids I see in the High Street these days, it must be piss-easy to pick a starting front-row and a Bomb Squad at every youth club??

[sefton]

Doesn’t matter, it’s the original.

So you sulked and created a duplicate??

It does matter a little bit, in that it's an Irishman mocking the English. And the thread had been dead for six weeks when I created my one, which is for English people venting about Borthwick.

But ultimately anyone can make threads about anything. Fester can make a thread poking fun at the English. I can make a thread to be angry at Borthwick. Sefton can make a thread to congratulate Fiji even though there's no Fijians here so he can feel morally superior. Torq can make a thread to post the location of the favourite cafe of whichever referee has upset him this week. You can post a thread about your favourite translation of Mein Kampf. It's all just threads on a niche forum.

I am.

[Torquemada 1420]

b) it immediately puts him above Seneca at least, who will order a double whiskey on your tab as soon as you've been introduced to him

Sad but true.

[ASMO]

Topics merged

[Ymx]

Maybe Jones deserves an apology?

Uncle F - you can modify your OP and fix the thread title back to what it should be

[Uncle fester]

It feels like that game of crusader kings 2 where I ran out of male adult heirs and lost my alban empire only to be left with the English crown (spit) but gradually over 200 years worked my way back to reunite the whole lot again.

And gained Aquitaine into the bargain.

[shaggy]

French club attendances have always been healthy but it isn’t true to say France have always sold out their games, some of the crowds were desperate with the whole upper tier of the SdF empty for 6N games against Italy, swarms of home nations fans getting tickets etc

English rugby has a potentially intractable problem in that our largest immigrant communities are from South Asia and are a statistically irrelevant factor in the sport. My cricket league takes me into West London a lot and the difference in make up of sides and the size of clubs between that and the West London rugby club a mate plays at and I watch a few times a year is eye opening. France certainly appears more successful on that metric.

And yeah it’s no secret English rugby doesn’t really have a heartland in the way France does, and the increasingly middle class appeal of the Premier League is the elephant in the room for rugby’s long term future

The trouble there is using the SdeF as a metric. It's Paris and it's a long way and expensive for fans from trad areas to travel to for games. Especially ones of lower interest or significance. Not helped by the FFR's retarded policies of putting games on on a Friday or late on Sunday which f**ks up work. Games in places like Marseille and Lyon have never failed to sell out AFAIK. Also, there are plenty like me who had more interest in the club game than the ntl team.

Bit in bold is nail on head for me. I took a lot of flack for my observations of English rugby being in a crisis (e.g. calling it a "toff's game") but I stand by the assertion that unless you start making meaningful inroads into working class participation (and that means competing with football), Eng can never consistently sit at the top of the game again.

You need to attend rugby games outside on London. SW has massive ‘working class’ involvement. Can’t vouch for the Midlands or North but my trips to both Leicester and Northampton were pretty much Range Rover free.

[Ymx]

It feels like that game of crusader kings 2 where I ran out of male adult heirs and lost my alban empire only to be left with the English crown (spit) but gradually over 200 years worked my way back to reunite the whole lot again.

And gained Aquitaine into the bargain.

That’s what winning feels like

[JM2K6]

It feels like that game of crusader kings 2 where I ran out of male adult heirs and lost my alban empire only to be left with the English crown (spit) but gradually over 200 years worked my way back to reunite the whole lot again.

And gained Aquitaine into the bargain.

You do yourself a disserve - forum threads are far, far more important than the rise and fall of empires.


(not got into CK3 then?)

[Uncle fester]

It feels like that game of crusader kings 2 where I ran out of male adult heirs and lost my alban empire only to be left with the English crown (spit) but gradually over 200 years worked my way back to reunite the whole lot again.

And gained Aquitaine into the bargain.

You do yourself a disserve - forum threads are far, far more important than the rise and fall of empires.


(not got into CK3 then?)

Pressing claims is what gets me horny and this thread was top of the list!

Actually bought it last weekend. I dislike paying full whack for games and I especially dislike Paradox's way of leaching loads of money out of it's consumers via DLC's.

500+ hours on ck2 meant it was hard to let go.

[JM2K6]

It feels like that game of crusader kings 2 where I ran out of male adult heirs and lost my alban empire only to be left with the English crown (spit) but gradually over 200 years worked my way back to reunite the whole lot again.

And gained Aquitaine into the bargain.

You do yourself a disserve - forum threads are far, far more important than the rise and fall of empires.


(not got into CK3 then?)

Pressing claims is what gets me horny and this thread was top of the list!

Actually bought it last weekend. I dislike paying full whack for games and I especially dislike Paradox's way of leaching loads of money out of it's consumers via DLC's.

500+ hours on ck2 meant it was hard to let go.

I think Brazil is probably quite happy that the CK2 collector's edition (or whatever it was) I gave him, having picked it up on hefty discount, never actually worked on his PC...

[ScarfaceClaw]

CK3 is on sale on steam.