Rassie (again)

[Slick]

I really am in two minds about Rassie.

On the one hand I actually really like his playfulness and off the wall humour, and have enormous respect for him as a coach and rugby man. On the other, he's a bit of a cunt.

I very much enjoyed the spotlights thing yesterday, particularly seeing him smiling away about it during the match. It was a bit weird, but I like the kind of mind that can think that up and not take it too seriously. It does kind of perpetuate the view of Saffers being thick as shit automatons who can't think for themselves, but lets leave that to one side.

But then you have a team of 15 waterboys running on the pitch when not allowed. he knows that's not allowed, but he also knows he's not going to get into any trouble for it. He knows it's going to slow down the game, disrupt the opposition and give him an advantage. That kind of thing just pushes him into cunt territory.

We obviously can never forgive him for the ref video, which is genuinely one of the worst things i've seen in the game,so maybe this is all moot, but I'd love to get inside his head for a while.

[inactionman]

I really am in two minds about Rassie.

On the one hand I actually really like his playfulness and off the wall humour, and have enormous respect for him as a coach and rugby man. On the other, he's a bit of a cunt.

I very much enjoyed the spotlights thing yesterday, particularly seeing him smiling away about it during the match. It was a bit weird, but I like the kind of mind that can think that up and not take it too seriously. It does kind of perpetuate the view of Saffers being thick as shit automatons who can't think for themselves, but lets leave that to one side.

But then you have a team of 15 waterboys running on the pitch when not allowed. he knows that's not allowed, but he also knows he's not going to get into any trouble for it. He knows it's going to slow down the game, disrupt the opposition and give him an advantage. That kind of thing just pushes him into cunt territory.

We obviously can never forgive him for the ref video, which is genuinely one of the worst things i've seen in the game,so maybe this is all moot, but I'd love to get inside his head for a while.

It's hard to look past the ref video, as that was made in the cold light of day and was highly cynical in its intentions.

I did quite like the Farrell tackling coaching session though, that's actually a good way to address the issue - show your contempt of it by mockery. If Rassie just stuck to that, and not stuff that pisses on the spirit of the game, demeans refs or makes their lives harder, I'd have a great deal more respect. As it is, he's an arse who is occasionally amusing. I would say that I am really enjoying watching South Africa play at the moment (spits), it's a great blend of power and speed and they seem to have got a real esprit de corps. The coaches are clearly doing something right.

I was pretty tired and watching much of rugby on my phone, so I thought be seeing things, but I did notice some bugger brought a fecking ships lamp into the coaching box - I've not caught up on what that was or for why, assume it was intended to signal to players on the pitch. I'm some begrudging admiration for anyone who can bring semaphore into the game.

[assfly]

But then you have a team of 15 waterboys running on the pitch when not allowed. he knows that's not allowed, but he also knows he's not going to get into any trouble for it. He knows it's going to slow down the game, disrupt the opposition and give him an advantage. That kind of thing just pushes him into cunt territory.

Have you seen the temperatures?

Every team has been sending on a lot more water than usual.

[Slick]

But then you have a team of 15 waterboys running on the pitch when not allowed. he knows that's not allowed, but he also knows he's not going to get into any trouble for it. He knows it's going to slow down the game, disrupt the opposition and give him an advantage. That kind of thing just pushes him into cunt territory.

Have you seen the temperatures?

Every team has been sending on a lot more water than usual.

Please don’t act dumb

[assfly]

Great argument.

It was happening in every other game. There were guys running on with fucking refrigerators on wheels.

[Slick]

Great argument.

It was happening in every other game. There were guys running on with fucking refrigerators on wheels.

Jesus. There is one water break midway through each half that has been agreed. They are not allowed on at any other time

[assfly]

Jesus. There is one water break midway through each half that has been agreed. They are not allowed on at any other time

tell that to every other team then.

[SaintK]

But then you have a team of 15 waterboys running on the pitch when not allowed. he knows that's not allowed, but he also knows he's not going to get into any trouble for it. He knows it's going to slow down the game, disrupt the opposition and give him an advantage. That kind of thing just pushes him into cunt territory.

Have you seen the temperatures?

Every team has been sending on a lot more water than usual.

No they haven't

[inactionman]

World Rugby had to change the rulebook to prevent Rassie being waterboy to get around his ban.

I'm hoping they don't need to do similar here, if this invasion of waterboys becomes a thing.

Rassie seems to enjoy thumbing his nose at people and in offending sensibilities, it's not an endearing trait.

[assfly]

No they haven't

ok

[Guy Smiley]

Welcome to the world of Saffas believing their own bullshit, folks.

[C T]

I know some very reasonable, level headed saffas who just have a complete blind spot for Rassie.

He walks a dangerous line, and sometimes has completely gone out of control (the ref video for example). By dangerous I mean could potentially seriously damage the game, it's just not acceptable.

[Chilli]

Hang about.
So teams are not sending on extra hydration during the breaks in play due to the intense heat.
And teams are not lugging cooler boxes onto the field?

[assfly]

I know some very reasonable, level headed saffas who just have a complete blind spot for Rassie.

He walks a dangerous line, and sometimes has completely gone out of control (the ref video for example). By dangerous I mean could potentially seriously damage the game, it's just not acceptable.

So what has he done this time that is unacceptable?

[JM2K6]

I know some very reasonable, level headed saffas who just have a complete blind spot for Rassie.

He walks a dangerous line, and sometimes has completely gone out of control (the ref video for example). By dangerous I mean could potentially seriously damage the game, it's just not acceptable.

So what has he done this time that is unacceptable?

He shot a man in Rennes just to watch him die

[C T]

I know some very reasonable, level headed saffas who just have a complete blind spot for Rassie.

He walks a dangerous line, and sometimes has completely gone out of control (the ref video for example). By dangerous I mean could potentially seriously damage the game, it's just not acceptable.

So what has he done this time that is unacceptable?

I'm talking about the ref video there.

The sending on a whole team of people (which I personally haven't seen outside of the agreed water breaks), spot light comms to the field etc. is more that walking the dangerous line.

Some times I find those antics amusing, some times irritating. But he does need to be careful, for now he's walking the line but you wouldn't be surprised if he falls off it again.

[Paddington Bear]

I think it’s fair to say that when it comes to Rassie, Venter etc us Anglos really struggle to understand elements of the Afrikaner psyche. Mad as a box of frogs in a very different way to how our guys are mad.

Re: water boys, the refs should stop yelling ‘get off’ and have the balls to give a penalty. It would stop straight away

[Blake]

He's a "win at all costs" kind of guy, and I get that it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

He's one of those people that will bend every single law, rule and convention to test their limits...and sometimes he goes too far and breaks it. But he has realised that at the top level the extra 1% or 2% advantage you get is often enough to get you the win, and 10 years from now all the record books will only reflect the scoreboard.

His time as Coach at the Cheetahs in the mid 2000's also had a lot to do with that mindset. He couldn't compete with the budgets of the big teams on the field, so he had to mess with other coaches and try to gain an edge outside of the playing field by exploiting loopholes in the rules and conventions. One such "innovation" was to have your physio (who is allowed on the sidelines) to also be your defensive coach and give players real-time defensive calls. Or finding innovative ways to communicate with players or staff sitting on the roof of the stadium using a lighting system, even if it made him look like a daft twat.

Unless something is explicitly prohibited, he's going to push in that area until some authority stops him. A convention or "gentleman's agreement" isn't going to stop him. Business is business. Winning is winning. Rugby is a business and winning is good for business. I don't like that approach personally, but my objection is purely sentimental. Logically it makes sense and he's already come to terms that rugby will end there eventually, so you might as well be at the forefront of that transition.

It's going to be a constant game of whack-a-mole between him and World Rugby, as it should be. The ref thing during the Lions Tour went over the line for sure, it was disgraceful and not a good look for him or Springbok rugby. But it was also useful in creating some transparency on the process for the public, forced a review of that process, established where "the line" is (even though that was clear for many of us), and a baseline sanction for crossing that line. Whether it will be enforced going forward, we will have to wait and see, but the baseline is there.

I see these types of things as growing pains. Initially unpleasant, but ultimately for the good for the game. Take for example the shot clock on kicks, or the "use it" call at rucks. Both counter measures that were introduced by WR after teams found unsporting ways to slow the game down by exploiting grey areas that were only policed by the phrase "against the spirit of the game". The same will be done with water carriers when people like Rassie exploit something that hasn't been properly and comprehensively codified. At some point some kind of flag or light system is going to be introduced for when support personnel are allowed on the field, by when they need to be off the field, and a sanction of not adhering to it. And when that ultimately happens the game will be better for it.

Until then, love him or hate him, guys like Rassie will keep probing for places to get that 1% edge in a grey area.

[Blake]

I think it’s fair to say that when it comes to Rassie, Venter etc us Anglos really struggle to understand elements of the Afrikaner psyche. Mad as a box of frogs in a very different way to how our guys are mad.

Re: water boys, the refs should stop yelling ‘get off’ and have the balls to give a penalty. It would stop straight away

Completely agree. WR should just codify something for support staff. Free kick or penalty and that problem goes away super fast.

Another pet peeve of mine is when the replacement players are warming up in the in-goal area and play reaches that side of the field. IMO, if they step one foot on the field, even after a try has been scored, it should be penalised as too many player on the field. They should be warming up on the sideline, and if they get on the field they should remove themselves if play gets close and not step on unless they have been officially subbed on. End of. I hate it when they invade an celebrate with their team, often pushing an opposition player and escalating a situation.

[PornDog]

Hang about.
So teams are not sending on extra hydration during the breaks in play due to the intense heat.
And teams are not lugging cooler boxes onto the field?

During the two designated water breaks, yes. Outside of that, no. Except for SA of course!

[assfly]

Moments over the weekend when I saw water being brought onto the pitch for various teams:

Designated water breaks at 20 and 60 minutes.
(One of the matches they did it at 35 minutes, for both sides)
During penalty kicks.
After a try was scored, for both teams.
During TMO deliberations.
When a player was being assessed by a medic.

[OomStruisbaai]

We struggled way to long with kak coaches. The fact that he works on the opposition nerves show he is doing his job.

He won a WC after 2 years in charge and the current Bok team is well coached.

Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.

[Chilli]

Hang about.
So teams are not sending on extra hydration during the breaks in play due to the intense heat.
And teams are not lugging cooler boxes onto the field?

During the two designated water breaks, yes. Outside of that, no. Except for SA of course!

And it's only the Springboks who send water on during any other breaks?

[Slick]

Jesus. There is one water break midway through each half that has been agreed. They are not allowed on at any other time

tell that to every other team then.

They got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it

[assfly]

They got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it

Sure. Bad South Africa, bad Rassie. Everyone else, good.

[Punter15]

He's the Christian Horner of rugby.

[average joe]

Sitting on your couch with the aircon running and an ice pack on your sweety balls meanwhile these guys are exerting themselves in +30C heat. All fun and games until someone drops with dehydration.

[SaintK]

They got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it

Sure. Bad South Africa, bad Rassie. Everyone else, good.

You're getting there...slowly

[Slick]

They got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it

Sure. Bad South Africa, bad Rassie. Everyone else, good.

No, SA brought on the whole kit and got all the players round, no one else has done that because they were told explicitly it could only be done at the designated water break. I’m not answering this again because it really shouldn’t be this hard

[assfly]

No, SA brought on the whole kit and got all the players round, no one else has done that because they were told explicitly it could only be done at the designated water break. I’m not answering this again because it really shouldn’t be this hard

We were beaten because South Africa were illegally better hydrated than us

[Sards]

They got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it

Sure. Bad South Africa, bad Rassie. Everyone else, good.

No, SA brought on the whole kit and got all the players round, no one else has done that because they were told explicitly it could only be done at the designated water break. I’m not answering this again because it really shouldn’t be this hard

Well then let World Rugby do something about it.
It's frustrating listening to every one moan about it and nothing gets done

[Slick]

No, SA brought on the whole kit and got all the players round, no one else has done that because they were told explicitly it could only be done at the designated water break. I’m not answering this again because it really shouldn’t be this hard

We were beaten because South Africa were illegally better hydrated than us

Absolutely no one has said that.

Although they obviously did it to create an advantage, otherwise why do it?

[assfly]

Although they obviously did it to create an advantage, otherwise why do it?

I don't know, maybe they were thirsty?

[JM2K6]

The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Although they obviously did it to create an advantage, otherwise why do it?

I don't know, maybe they were thirsty?

That made me laugh. Sorry Slick, I realise it does upset you and you do have your reasons. But my give a shit o'meter barely moves if the players (on either side) hydrate when there are stoppages in play, considering they are playing in over 30°C heat. If it influenced the game times, then yes I see your point. But I mean I saw Raynal drinking from one of the bottles outside the "water breaks" for crying out loud. They are only human.

[Slick]

Although they obviously did it to create an advantage, otherwise why do it?

I don't know, maybe they were thirsty?

That made me laugh. Sorry Slick, I realise it does upset you and you do have your reasons. But my give a shit o'meter barely moves if the players (on either side) hydrate when there are stoppages in play, considering they are playing in over 30°C heat. If it influenced the game times, then yes I see your point. But I mean I saw Raynal drinking from one of the bottles outside the "water breaks" for crying out loud. They are only human.

I think you all really need to read the OP again. It doesn’t upset me and absolutely no one, anywhere I have looked, has mentioned it as a reason we lost, no one.

It’s a comment on Rassie being a bit of a dick.

In a related matter, I’m running out of different ways to say “well done SA, best team won” to stop the precious, thin skinned, chippy Saffers across the internet from getting arsey about everything. It’s at Irish levels

[assfly]

He's on to us lads. He knows our secret weapon.

[LoveOfTheGame]

I don't know, maybe they were thirsty?

That made me laugh. Sorry Slick, I realise it does upset you and you do have your reasons. But my give a shit o'meter barely moves if the players (on either side) hydrate when there are stoppages in play, considering they are playing in over 30°C heat. If it influenced the game times, then yes I see your point. But I mean I saw Raynal drinking from one of the bottles outside the "water breaks" for crying out loud. They are only human.

I think you all really need to read the OP again. It doesn’t upset me and absolutely no one, anywhere I have looked, has mentioned it as a reason we lost, no one.

It’s a comment on Rassie being a bit of a dick.

In a related matter, I’m running out of different ways to say “well done SA, best team won” to stop the precious, thin skinned, chippy Saffers across the internet from getting arsey about everything. It’s at Irish levels

I did not take it as such, so no need to explain. Rassie sure does get under people skins. Sometimes he gets credited for things he does not deserve, other times he does not get credited enough. He is a very polarising character in our rugby world.

[inactionman]

I thought the reason for doing it was to interrupt the game, but I suppose Rassie could have just blinded the ref with his searchlight and had the same effect.

[inactionman]

He's a "win at all costs" kind of guy, and I get that it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

He's one of those people that will bend every single law, rule and convention to test their limits...and sometimes he goes too far and breaks it. But he has realised that at the top level the extra 1% or 2% advantage you get is often enough to get you the win, and 10 years from now all the record books will only reflect the scoreboard.

His time as Coach at the Cheetahs in the mid 2000's also had a lot to do with that mindset. He couldn't compete with the budgets of the big teams on the field, so he had to mess with other coaches and try to gain an edge outside of the playing field by exploiting loopholes in the rules and conventions. One such "innovation" was to have your physio (who is allowed on the sidelines) to also be your defensive coach and give players real-time defensive calls. Or finding innovative ways to communicate with players or staff sitting on the roof of the stadium using a lighting system, even if it made him look like a daft twat.

Unless something is explicitly prohibited, he's going to push in that area until some authority stops him. A convention or "gentleman's agreement" isn't going to stop him. Business is business. Winning is winning. Rugby is a business and winning is good for business. I don't like that approach personally, but my objection is purely sentimental. Logically it makes sense and he's already come to terms that rugby will end there eventually, so you might as well be at the forefront of that transition.

It's going to be a constant game of whack-a-mole between him and World Rugby, as it should be. The ref thing during the Lions Tour went over the line for sure, it was disgraceful and not a good look for him or Springbok rugby. But it was also useful in creating some transparency on the process for the public, forced a review of that process, established where "the line" is (even though that was clear for many of us), and a baseline sanction for crossing that line. Whether it will be enforced going forward, we will have to wait and see, but the baseline is there.

I see these types of things as growing pains. Initially unpleasant, but ultimately for the good for the game. Take for example the shot clock on kicks, or the "use it" call at rucks. Both counter measures that were introduced by WR after teams found unsporting ways to slow the game down by exploiting grey areas that were only policed by the phrase "against the spirit of the game". The same will be done with water carriers when people like Rassie exploit something that hasn't been properly and comprehensively codified. At some point some kind of flag or light system is going to be introduced for when support personnel are allowed on the field, by when they need to be off the field, and a sanction of not adhering to it. And when that ultimately happens the game will be better for it.

Until then, love him or hate him, guys like Rassie will keep probing for places to get that 1% edge in a grey area.

All good points. It reminds me of a basketball coach called Red Auerbach. He was eulogised in America for his utter determination to win and the success he earned, but it involved employing tactics like lowering the height of the ceiling in opposition changing rooms and turning off hot water (and worse) so they'd uncomfortable. My reservation is, I think he (and all those who admired his actions) missed the idea of 'sport' by that point. It's supposed to be an equal competition on the field, you can do all you can to prepare for that competition, but the environment is supposed to be equal.

I've no problems with the Brailsford mantra of marginal gains (recognising they lost the plot with the doping) if it means e.g. tailored bedding for each athlete, so that each athlete is in optimal condition, I've an issue where it means underhand grabbing of advantage simply as no-one has expressly prevented you from doing so.

In terms of Rassie's antics, I'd agree it'll only stop when legislated out, but the problem is that means we're forever chasing tail as people find new workarounds. That might just be our lot, as I'd rather not have the ref try to figure out whether to penalise for too many water carriers on the pitch.

To be clear though, the water carriers thing is already prohibited, although it's not the only means of tactical time-wasting and momentum-killing.