The fact that you have spell this outJM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
Well used gif, made me laugh anyway.PornDog wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:28 pmThe fact that you have spell this outJM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
I guess this is why Saffers need semophores to know whether to go for 3 or the line, and need to have constant instructions from the sidelines via waterboys!
You havent see the Saffers mothers on the side when their 7 years old play rugby.PornDog wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:28 pmThe fact that you have spell this outJM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
I guess this is why Saffers need semophores to know whether to go for 3 or the line, and need to have constant instructions from the sidelines via waterboys!
It’s only assfly to be fairPornDog wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:28 pmThe fact that you have spell this outJM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
I guess this is why Saffers need semophores to know whether to go for 3 or the line, and need to have constant instructions from the sidelines via waterboys!
Auerbach's antics do seem a bit extreme and I hope it doesn't end up going that far. I think there has to be an element of "fairness" to it, in that the "loopholes" are there for any team to exploit...until they get shut down. First come, first served until WR closes the window.inactionman wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:17 pm All good points. It reminds me of a basketball coach called Red Auerbach. He was eulogised in America for his utter determination to win and the success he earned, but it involved employing tactics like lowering the height of the ceiling in opposition changing rooms and turning off hot water (and worse) so they'd uncomfortable. My reservation is, I think he (and all those who admired his actions) missed the idea of 'sport' by that point. It's supposed to be an equal competition on the field, you can do all you can to prepare for that competition, but the environment is supposed to be equal.
I've no problems with the Brailsford mantra of marginal gains (recognising they lost the plot with the doping) if it means e.g. tailored bedding for each athlete, so that each athlete is in optimal condition, I've an issue where it means underhand grabbing of advantage simply as no-one has expressly prevented you from doing so.
In terms of Rassie's antics, I'd agree it'll only stop when legislated out, but the problem is that means we're forever chasing tail as people find new workarounds. That might just be our lot, as I'd rather not have the ref try to figure out whether to penalise for too many water carriers on the pitch.
To be clear though, the water carriers thing is already prohibited, although it's not the only means of tactical time-wasting and momentum-killing.
Gardner was yelling at the players to form the lineout at one stage.... 3 or 4 times. He should have just penalised at that point.Blake wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:23 pmAuerbach's antics do seem a bit extreme and I hope it doesn't end up going that far. I think there has to be an element of "fairness" to it, in that the "loopholes" are there for any team to exploit...until they get shut down. First come, first served until WR closes the window.inactionman wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:17 pm All good points. It reminds me of a basketball coach called Red Auerbach. He was eulogised in America for his utter determination to win and the success he earned, but it involved employing tactics like lowering the height of the ceiling in opposition changing rooms and turning off hot water (and worse) so they'd uncomfortable. My reservation is, I think he (and all those who admired his actions) missed the idea of 'sport' by that point. It's supposed to be an equal competition on the field, you can do all you can to prepare for that competition, but the environment is supposed to be equal.
I've no problems with the Brailsford mantra of marginal gains (recognising they lost the plot with the doping) if it means e.g. tailored bedding for each athlete, so that each athlete is in optimal condition, I've an issue where it means underhand grabbing of advantage simply as no-one has expressly prevented you from doing so.
In terms of Rassie's antics, I'd agree it'll only stop when legislated out, but the problem is that means we're forever chasing tail as people find new workarounds. That might just be our lot, as I'd rather not have the ref try to figure out whether to penalise for too many water carriers on the pitch.
To be clear though, the water carriers thing is already prohibited, although it's not the only means of tactical time-wasting and momentum-killing.
Regarding the water carrier thing, if it's already prohibited and sanctions are clearly laid out, then surely the ire of the fans should be aimed at the referee or ARs for not enforcing them? If the officials have the guidelines and punishments at the ready, then it's an easy decision. Blow whistle, give penalty or free kick. Easy peasy. I can promise you they won't go on the field again until the AR or some official allows them.
For how complicated and comprehensive the laws of rugby are on the field, I think we are still lagging a little bit on codifying the allowed off the field. I know it's a massive ball ache to do, but the problem is just going to get worse and worse when characters like Rassie start pushing the envelope to see what he can get away with. And when he eventually retires, there will be some new version of him that does the same.
Those were organised water breaks not just random fuckwits wandering onto the field. You could hear the ref telling them to get off!!assfly wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:49 am Great argument.
It was happening in every other game. There were guys running on with fucking refrigerators on wheels.
Surely that wouldn’t happen to super tough Saffersaverage joe wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:56 am Sitting on your couch with the aircon running and an ice pack on your sweety balls meanwhile these guys are exerting themselves in +30C heat. All fun and games until someone drops with dehydration.
What's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
You're paranoia is showing.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
If anyone is paranoid, it's you lot. Having nightmares of a team of Rassie waterboys running around whispering team tactics in players ears.Guy Smiley wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:55 amYou're paranoia is showing.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
Slick wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:34 amThey got a bollocking from the 4th official and didn’t do it again. They knew the rules and decided they could break them and get away with it
No, plenty other sports, like rugby expressly forbid it.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
Yep. The number of times a water carrier delivers a passed on message is quite a lot. Especially noticeable and commonly seen where it’s a squad player who is not in the match day 23 acting as water carrier.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
Saffa players have microphones and 2 way radios?!?!?!?! Holy fucking shit how has this not been highlighted before!
Of course that was what used to happen. But then Rassie took the piss and World Rugby had to change the laws. Now they can only come on during one of two designated water breaks.Ymx wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:46 amYep. The number of times a water carrier delivers a passed on message is quite a lot. Especially noticeable and commonly seen where it’s a squad player who is not in the match day 23 acting as water carrier.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
Seriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
It wasn't a typical 4 year cycle though, was it? 2020 with no tests, yet we managed to scrape a Lions series win in 2021. In 2022 we started to play some expansive rugby and this year hasn't been too bad as a run up to the RWC, with some exciting young talent coming through.Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pm Seriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?
What is RasNabers success rate against the All Blacks?Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pmSeriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
No better than Foster's against SA? Which is a damming indictment! The worst All Black side of the last 30 years should not be your benchmark...OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:32 amWhat is RasNabers success rate against the All Blacks?Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pmSeriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
Bloody hell.. that's the same excuse Foster tries to palm off on us... don't accept it! Demand more!assfly wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:55 amIt wasn't a typical 4 year cycle though, was it? 2020 with no tests, yet we managed to scrape a Lions series win in 2021. In 2022 we started to play some expansive rugby and this year hasn't been too bad as a run up to the RWC, with some exciting young talent coming through.Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pm Seriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?
If we had lost.....well it's a moot point.
How can you say that.? Since 2010 to Rassie we won 2 and lost 15 with Meyer and AC. With Rassie we beat the All Blacks in NZ, for the first time since 2008. They just knock you a record score.Grandpa wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:54 amNo better than Foster's against SA? Which is a damming indictment! The worst All Black side of the last 30 years should not be your benchmark...OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:32 amWhat is RasNabers success rate against the All Blacks?Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pm
Seriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?
Don't get too excited. Up until the Australian RC match we were still kak boring. Since Manie came aboard Rassie was forced to change game plans and we became exciting. That team against the ABs was Ace. Much better than the dross of the team that played them in the RC. That was s clustervok. The Scotland match was meh. Same personell as in the RC All Blacks match. That team is Rassie mentality. The team that played against the ABs and smashed them is pure magic.OomStruisbaai wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:54 am Comparing Rassie with the other coaches.
1. Boks have the biggest depth.
2. Boks have the best defense.
3. Not long ago we were the most boring international team.
4 Rassie is innovative
5 He bring it some fresh youngsters (ask Sards)
Even if we dont make the quarters, I dont care. Boks are well coach at the moment.
I think, given where we were in 2018 we're way more confident that we are on the right track now, regardless of the results in the four years since 2019.Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pmSeriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
Oh vok no. Rassie's vision is boring. Showed in the team selection against the scots. Lots of decent coaches around who prefer running rugby but aren't Rassie's mateBlake wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:11 pmI think, given where we were in 2018 we're way more confident that we are on the right track now, regardless of the results in the four years since 2019.Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pmSeriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
We've suffered a lot of close losses to top ranked teams in matches that could've gone either way, and no major humiliations (which isn't something we can say abouf the 4-5 years before 2018).
I think we've only been comprehensively outplayed 3 or so times in 4 years:
2021: The 30-17 loss against the Wallabies away. Rennie just unlocked or defence that day and we had no answers.
2022: The rematch against NZ at Ellispark that we lost 23-35 after going in all cocky after the demolition job we managed to do in Nelspruit the weekend before.
2023: The 20-35 loss against the All Blanks at Mount Smart where we were blitzed in the first quarter. I'd even say we had decent parity in second half. We just came out of the blocks cold and coming back from that deficit was always going to be tough.
Most of the other losses in this period haven't been bad. 3 point loss against Ireland in Ireland, 4 point loss against France in France (and we got a red card that match), 1 point loss against England in England at the end of a tour.
And unlike NZ, I think the other thing is that we don't really have a massively popular and successful coach to step into the role waiting in the wings. I think when Nienaber heads to Leinster after the world cup, the Boks are going to struggle to fill the void. Rassie will (hopefully) step in as caretaker coach, but whoever takes over on a full-time basis is going to struggle I think. Mzwandile Stick had a terrible run as coach of the South Africa A side, losing to Munster and Bath. And I'm not sure if John Dobson would want the job or if his coaching style would gel with Rassie's vision.
I think the players coming through now are the most exciting talent I can remember for the Springboks... going back to the 90s at least... I hope it's used... Moodie and Am are two great talents in midfield... you have exciting wingers and a mercurial number 10..Blake wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 1:11 pmI think, given where we were in 2018 we're way more confident that we are on the right track now, regardless of the results in the four years since 2019.Grandpa wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:21 pmSeriously? I guess it's relative, but the Springboks have a poorer record than NZ since the last world cup... and we wanted Foster replaced... are you sure you aren't giving him leeway because he won the last world cup? If you had gone out against Wales last WC.. would you still be happy with the last 4 years?OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:23 am the current Bok team is well coached.
Thank fuck we have Rassie and Nienaber.
We've suffered a lot of close losses to top ranked teams in matches that could've gone either way, and no major humiliations (which isn't something we can say abouf the 4-5 years before 2018).
I think we've only been comprehensively outplayed 3 or so times in 4 years:
2021: The 30-17 loss against the Wallabies away. Rennie just unlocked or defence that day and we had no answers.
2022: The rematch against NZ at Ellispark that we lost 23-35 after going in all cocky after the demolition job we managed to do in Nelspruit the weekend before.
2023: The 20-35 loss against the All Blanks at Mount Smart where we were blitzed in the first quarter. I'd even say we had decent parity in second half. We just came out of the blocks cold and coming back from that deficit was always going to be tough.
Most of the other losses in this period haven't been bad. 3 point loss against Ireland in Ireland, 4 point loss against France in France (and we got a red card that match), 1 point loss against England in England at the end of a tour.
And unlike NZ, I think the other thing is that we don't really have a massively popular and successful coach to step into the role waiting in the wings. I think when Nienaber heads to Leinster after the world cup, the Boks are going to struggle to fill the void. Rassie will (hopefully) step in as caretaker coach, but whoever takes over on a full-time basis is going to struggle I think. Mzwandile Stick had a terrible run as coach of the South Africa A side, losing to Munster and Bath. And I'm not sure if John Dobson would want the job or if his coaching style would gel with Rassie's vision.
HallelujahGrandpa wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:07 pm
I think the players coming through now are the most exciting talent I can remember for the Springboks... going back to the 90s at least... I hope it's used... Moodie and Am are two great talents in midfield... you have exciting wingers and a mercurial number 10..
I hope they take the strait-jacket off and set them free... I think the Boks can be even better than they were at Twickenham.. instead of living off opposition mistakes, there is so much potential to create and ruthlessly destroy... your team could be like the All Blacks of 2010 to 2015... win the world cup and go the next 5 years almost unbeatable... but you have to trust your talent... take those shackles off...
I'm with you. Yet another thing that only exists because 'tradition'. The link posted above allows certain staff to come on, including injured players if designated water carriers, but strictly not DoRs or Head Coaches. Why? As if those other staff aren't delivering messages.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
Is ja. Rassie has always been an out of the box thinler.Niegs wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:33 pmI'm with you. Yet another thing that only exists because 'tradition'. The link posted above allows certain staff to come on, including injured players if designated water carriers, but strictly not DoRs or Head Coaches. Why? As if those other staff aren't delivering messages.average joe wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:50 amWhat's wrong with this? Every other team sport allows coaches pitch side, why should rugby be any different?JM2K6 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:32 pm The tactic is about coaching the players on the field, not hydration.
So, you're not allowed to coach your team whilst playing, you're not allowed to do your job? And Rassie is the only international coach that tries to communicate with his players in game? He's not allowed to do it so has to find elaborate sneaky ways around this unspoken rule. You're deluded if you think coaches from other countries don't have some means to pass down messages to the players in game.
I totally get it where a coach is being a prick, constantly shouting at the refs. Yellow card him out of the technical area then. But if it's simply coaching players by shouting or during designated water/injury, who gives a shit?
You're asking the Springboks to sacrifice their culture and play like the AB's from 2010/15. Thats what the previous coach before Rassie did and look what that gave us. When Rassie took over from Coetzee the team had no character except to be more like the AB's. Some of those players are still in the team but they're completely different people now. They are confident in their abilities, and they have direction and drive.Grandpa wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:07 pm
I think the players coming through now are the most exciting talent I can remember for the Springboks... going back to the 90s at least... I hope it's used... Moodie and Am are two great talents in midfield... you have exciting wingers and a mercurial number 10..
I hope they take the strait-jacket off and set them free... I think the Boks can be even better than they were at Twickenham.. instead of living off opposition mistakes, there is so much potential to create and ruthlessly destroy... your team could be like the All Blacks of 2010 to 2015... win the world cup and go the next 5 years almost unbeatable... but you have to trust your talent... take those shackles off...
Completely agree, it would be awful if it was just some homogenous game plan across the teams. SA have a culture and a style that adds to rugby. It makes them successful, but it can also be their weakness occasionally, which is what makes it all tickaverage joe wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:10 amYou're asking the Springboks to sacrifice their culture and play like the AB's from 2010/15. Thats what the previous coach before Rassie did and look what that gave us. When Rassie took over from Coetzee the team had no character except to be more like the AB's. Some of those players are still in the team but they're completely different people now. They are confident in their abilities, and they have direction and drive.Grandpa wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:07 pm
I think the players coming through now are the most exciting talent I can remember for the Springboks... going back to the 90s at least... I hope it's used... Moodie and Am are two great talents in midfield... you have exciting wingers and a mercurial number 10..
I hope they take the strait-jacket off and set them free... I think the Boks can be even better than they were at Twickenham.. instead of living off opposition mistakes, there is so much potential to create and ruthlessly destroy... your team could be like the All Blacks of 2010 to 2015... win the world cup and go the next 5 years almost unbeatable... but you have to trust your talent... take those shackles off...
One of the things that makes rugby interesting is it can be played in different ways. There is no one set way to play the game. Teams can build a culture around their strengths and weaknesses.
tell that to every other team then.
