The Official, one and only, Men's IRB Rugby World Cup 2023 thread
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 6663
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Pulled strings at 10 in a 7 a side full contact England v Australia street rugby match in Marseille. I appear to have left a significant amount of skin in the south of France, and it is fair to say I do not envy housekeeping at the hotel I have just checked out of
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Pics pleasePaddington Bear wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:44 am Pulled strings at 10 in a 7 a side full contact England v Australia street rugby match in Marseille. I appear to have left a significant amount of skin in the south of France, and it is fair to say I do not envy housekeeping at the hotel I have just checked out of
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sockwithaticket
- Posts: 9258
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am
Interesting that so many of the top performers are from losing teams.
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convoluted
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:00 pm
For the last year or so there has been the tedious and unrelenting sarcastic sneer from certain NZ contributors, spearheaded by the forum's ultimate useless fat cunt poster Guy Smiley, of "
learnings ...so many learnings " in snarky reference to that specific constant message coming from the AB's camp.
To educate that group-think group-speak clique, this is what was meant by the 'learnings' :
First, from Rugby Pass:
... But all these qualities that the All Blacks displayed in the quarterfinal were the symptoms of one much bigger factor, which is, that it was a performance that demonstrated New Zealand’s capacity to learn, absorb, adapt and execute.
...the All Blacks ... have shown that once again they are a team that can fix itself, evolve (and) pick themselves up after crushing defeats and come back harder and better equipped ... what really them won a place in the semi-final was the stunning depth of research, analysis and hard work they have put into their defensive structure since they lost the three-Test series to Ireland last year (which) exposed serious weaknesses in the structure of the defensive screen, and the ability of the players to read what was happening around them ... (and thus began) a fundamental rebuild of the defensive structure. But (not) reshaped generally (but rather) reconstructed with the specific goal of being revamped to help the All Blacks beat Ireland at the 2023 World Cup.
... What was so good about (the AB) performance in the quarter-final was the way that, as the game played out, they were able to improve their reading of the Irish attack.
Their system took a bit of time to find itself, as in the first half Bundee Aki was able to score Ireland’s first try by getting on the outside and shrugging off some weak tackling by Rieko Ioane and Shannon Frizell who were all too easily beaten on the inside.
But (then) the All Blacks picked the right cues and were sharper at seeing where Ireland were going and when they were going to try to play the pass out the back ... (after Aki's try) the system cranked into fifth gear and the Irish runners were shut down behind the gainline or they had to cut back into the middle of the field where there were more black defenders waiting with a numeric advantage to pick off the turnover.
“ ... (We had) had to look at the fundamentals of the defensive game within the All Blacks,” says defence coach Scott McLeod.
“A big part of that was that in Super Rugby in New Zealand, they tend to defend the man. They line up on a man and they defend the man, whereas that doesn’t work against teams like Ireland, against Italy and France and we knew we had these teams, more than likely, at this World Cup.
We had to develop our ability to defend the ball so wherever the ball is we have to put people in front of it and what we have learned is that Ireland make you do that over and over again.
“They force you to make a decision about the ball and that was the most pleasing aspect [of the quarter-final victory], we have built the players’ skill sets from last year and we have learned some really hard lessons and then against Ireland, for the majority of the time we got that right.”
... The All Blacks were torn apart by Ireland last year but not in Paris when it mattered, and the victory was a tribute to the strength of their analysis and rugby intelligence ...
Samer-same from the NZ Herald:
Gregor Paul in Paris
... Maybe the first half wasn’t perfect, but in the last 40 minutes of their epic quarter-final, the All Blacks produced a defensive effort that was 15 months in the making, by almost perfectly executing a system that was built specifically with Ireland in mind.
Of all the things the All Blacks learned in their 2022 series defeat to Ireland, the most important was that their defensive system wasn’t good enough, tight enough or cohesive enough to beat the best teams.
The Irish exposed New Zealand in July last year as a team that offered up too much space, and who were vulnerable to any opponent who could get the ball wide and attack them close to the touchlines.
Ireland pulled the All Blacks this way and that a year ago - tormented them with their ability to play the ball out the back and bring captain Johnny Sexton back into play via his favoured looping run.
...It was a painful lesson for Ian Foster’s team - one that cost two assistants their jobs and which led to defence coach Scott McLeod rebuilding the defensive structure, all with the view of unveiling the finished product against Ireland in the World Cup quarter-finals.
...the ultimate test would be seeing how well the team could shut down Ireland. Would they be able to read an Irish attack that has only improved since last July by using variations of similar plays more subtly?
Would they be able to stop Ireland endlessly playing the ball out the back door to put Mack Hansen, James Lowe or Sexton - all of whom love attacking wide on arcing runs - into the sort of space they used to deadly effect in New Zealand?
Would a system designed specifically to beat Ireland prove to be well enough considered and then well enough executed to do what it was designed to do?
... (Last year) we had some shoddy defence when we were defending their outstanding attacking system,” said Jordie Barrett.
“We had some wide spaces, and they picked us off all game with their short passing.
“We were a lot tighter this game, and we were happy to let them get to the edges a bit more and put a bit of pressure on there.”
... by the second half, the All Blacks were picking Ireland’s movements more instinctively, and they were good enough to get to the loop-runners early and hit them behind the gain line.
Time and again, Barrett in particular, but also Anton Lienert-Brown when he came off the bench, judged brilliantly when Ireland were going to throw the ball out the back door, and they didn’t miss with their tackles either.
It frustrated Ireland, made them a little panicky, and they lost some of their attacking shape, even though they were dominating possession.
But the ultimate test to New Zealand’s newfound defensive smarts was the way they successfully held Ireland out for 37 phases in the last three minutes ...
learnings ...so many learnings " in snarky reference to that specific constant message coming from the AB's camp.To educate that group-think group-speak clique, this is what was meant by the 'learnings' :
First, from Rugby Pass:
... But all these qualities that the All Blacks displayed in the quarterfinal were the symptoms of one much bigger factor, which is, that it was a performance that demonstrated New Zealand’s capacity to learn, absorb, adapt and execute.
...the All Blacks ... have shown that once again they are a team that can fix itself, evolve (and) pick themselves up after crushing defeats and come back harder and better equipped ... what really them won a place in the semi-final was the stunning depth of research, analysis and hard work they have put into their defensive structure since they lost the three-Test series to Ireland last year (which) exposed serious weaknesses in the structure of the defensive screen, and the ability of the players to read what was happening around them ... (and thus began) a fundamental rebuild of the defensive structure. But (not) reshaped generally (but rather) reconstructed with the specific goal of being revamped to help the All Blacks beat Ireland at the 2023 World Cup.
... What was so good about (the AB) performance in the quarter-final was the way that, as the game played out, they were able to improve their reading of the Irish attack.
Their system took a bit of time to find itself, as in the first half Bundee Aki was able to score Ireland’s first try by getting on the outside and shrugging off some weak tackling by Rieko Ioane and Shannon Frizell who were all too easily beaten on the inside.
But (then) the All Blacks picked the right cues and were sharper at seeing where Ireland were going and when they were going to try to play the pass out the back ... (after Aki's try) the system cranked into fifth gear and the Irish runners were shut down behind the gainline or they had to cut back into the middle of the field where there were more black defenders waiting with a numeric advantage to pick off the turnover.
“ ... (We had) had to look at the fundamentals of the defensive game within the All Blacks,” says defence coach Scott McLeod.
“A big part of that was that in Super Rugby in New Zealand, they tend to defend the man. They line up on a man and they defend the man, whereas that doesn’t work against teams like Ireland, against Italy and France and we knew we had these teams, more than likely, at this World Cup.
We had to develop our ability to defend the ball so wherever the ball is we have to put people in front of it and what we have learned is that Ireland make you do that over and over again.
“They force you to make a decision about the ball and that was the most pleasing aspect [of the quarter-final victory], we have built the players’ skill sets from last year and we have learned some really hard lessons and then against Ireland, for the majority of the time we got that right.”
... The All Blacks were torn apart by Ireland last year but not in Paris when it mattered, and the victory was a tribute to the strength of their analysis and rugby intelligence ...
Samer-same from the NZ Herald:
Gregor Paul in Paris
... Maybe the first half wasn’t perfect, but in the last 40 minutes of their epic quarter-final, the All Blacks produced a defensive effort that was 15 months in the making, by almost perfectly executing a system that was built specifically with Ireland in mind.
Of all the things the All Blacks learned in their 2022 series defeat to Ireland, the most important was that their defensive system wasn’t good enough, tight enough or cohesive enough to beat the best teams.
The Irish exposed New Zealand in July last year as a team that offered up too much space, and who were vulnerable to any opponent who could get the ball wide and attack them close to the touchlines.
Ireland pulled the All Blacks this way and that a year ago - tormented them with their ability to play the ball out the back and bring captain Johnny Sexton back into play via his favoured looping run.
...It was a painful lesson for Ian Foster’s team - one that cost two assistants their jobs and which led to defence coach Scott McLeod rebuilding the defensive structure, all with the view of unveiling the finished product against Ireland in the World Cup quarter-finals.
...the ultimate test would be seeing how well the team could shut down Ireland. Would they be able to read an Irish attack that has only improved since last July by using variations of similar plays more subtly?
Would they be able to stop Ireland endlessly playing the ball out the back door to put Mack Hansen, James Lowe or Sexton - all of whom love attacking wide on arcing runs - into the sort of space they used to deadly effect in New Zealand?
Would a system designed specifically to beat Ireland prove to be well enough considered and then well enough executed to do what it was designed to do?
... (Last year) we had some shoddy defence when we were defending their outstanding attacking system,” said Jordie Barrett.
“We had some wide spaces, and they picked us off all game with their short passing.
“We were a lot tighter this game, and we were happy to let them get to the edges a bit more and put a bit of pressure on there.”
... by the second half, the All Blacks were picking Ireland’s movements more instinctively, and they were good enough to get to the loop-runners early and hit them behind the gain line.
Time and again, Barrett in particular, but also Anton Lienert-Brown when he came off the bench, judged brilliantly when Ireland were going to throw the ball out the back door, and they didn’t miss with their tackles either.
It frustrated Ireland, made them a little panicky, and they lost some of their attacking shape, even though they were dominating possession.
But the ultimate test to New Zealand’s newfound defensive smarts was the way they successfully held Ireland out for 37 phases in the last three minutes ...
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6679
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm so totally in your head, pulling the levers and pushing the buttons.
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 6663
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Disagree, as discussed at length the draw has left us and Argentina a little undercooked, so it’s good to give us both a chance to try things before the big danceSlick wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:36 am Not sure I agree with these new warm up games for the finalists
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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Deveron Boy
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:51 pm
I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Saffas again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final or semi-final? Fking twats
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Saffas again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final or semi-final? Fking twats
Last edited by Deveron Boy on Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Insane_Homer
- Posts: 5506
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
- Location: Leafy Surrey
For the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
Argentina v New Zealand
Date: Friday, October 20
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
England v South Africa
Date: Saturday, October 21
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (Ireland), Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
Date: Friday, October 20
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Karl Dickson (England)
TMO: Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
England v South Africa
Date: Saturday, October 21
Kick off: 21:00 local (20:00 BST, 19:00 GMT)
Venue: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Brace (Ireland), Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
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topofthemoon
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:22 pm
Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4961
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
https://x.com/topofthemoongw/status/171 ... tRYAHubiTQtopofthemoon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:51 pm Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
Gardner is a break of recent trends.
Ben would be more excited if NZ lost and he had a chance at the final.Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:57 pmFor the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
I drink and I forget things.
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topofthemoon
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:22 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:57 pmhttps://x.com/topofthemoongw/status/171 ... tRYAHubiTQtopofthemoon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:51 pm Angus Gardner & Ben O'Keeffe will be the 15th & 16th referees to take charge of a men's RWC semi-final.
O'Keeffe is the 1st Kiwi to ref a semi since Steve Walsh in 2007.
Gardner is the 1st Aussie to ref a semi since Kerry Fitzgerald in 1991.
Australia - 3 RWC semis refereed;
England - 2;
France - 2;
Ireland - 2;
New Zealand - 3;
Scotland - 3;
South Africa - 2;
Wales - 3.
Gardner is a break of recent trends.
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Insane_Homer
- Posts: 5506
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
- Location: Leafy Surrey
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
Forgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4961
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
Remind me what this was?Sandstorm wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:31 amForgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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average joe
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:46 am
- Location: kuvukiland
Uncle fester wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:38 pmRemind me what this was?Sandstorm wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:31 amForgot about that!! Idiot.topofthemoon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:42 pm
Aye, my guess is he's the number 5 ref and taking the slot that should have been Peypers's. Means that Peyper has been bombed out of taking charge of a semi in back to back RWCs - injury this time and his photo with Welsh fans last time.
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Paddington Bear
- Posts: 6663
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Huge advantage of our time-slot. 8am when you're retired is perfect.Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
I drink and I forget things.
Yep, perfect viewing time in NZ.Enzedder wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:12 pmHuge advantage of our time-slot. 8am when you're retired is perfect.Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
1 hourPaddington Bear wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:30 pm Out both evenings farcically. Any Brits know how quickly ITV get the full games onto ITV X?
England had to go through the 91 world cup final trauma and the Grand Slam near misses in the run up to 2003 to finally become the team that could win it in Australia. Ireland will use this pain to win their next quarter final, no doubt. Whenever that may be.
Insane_Homer wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:57 pmFor the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
Indeed.It's hardly Bin's fault that Jaco pulled his calf in the QFs and couldn't take charge of the ABs - Pumas SF to determine who the Boks meet next. Things could've turned out very differently.Harveys wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:46 amInsane_Homer wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:57 pmFor the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet nextDeveron Boy wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:28 pm I am guessing its the same clown committee responsible for the Original draw now in charge of ref appointments?
on what planet after his performance on sunday was Bin the right man for the Safes again? Luke Pearce or Nika Amashukeli don't get quarter final ore semi-final? Fking twats
The swivel eyes in my post was directed at the author of the post I quoted.Gumboot wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:57 amIt's hardly Bin's fault that Jaco pulled his calf in the QFs and couldn't take charge of the ABs - Pumas SF to determine who the Boks meet next. Things could've turned out very differently.Harveys wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:46 amInsane_Homer wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:57 pm
For the same reason he got the SA v France game after the Ireland performance, a keewee ref to determine who the keewees meet next
The Saffers should be thanking Bin, with a nice watch or something of the like.
Yep, IH was my target as well.Harveys wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:32 amThe swivel eyes in my post was directed at the author of the post I quoted.
The Saffers should be thanking Bin, with a nice watch or something of the like.
