Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

Might not be a bad fit for Tamworth. I've got family in Tamworth and whilst I suspect they vote Tory they might think they're a bit lefty/liberal. Across the families they're either police (by marriage), army, doctors (by marriage) or retired school teachers. They would be if not out and out racist at minimum pro-British, and really that's pro white (but not gypsy) British, homophobic (at least two of them quit the National Trust after a story some years back of NT staff being asked to wear Rainbow Badges), the police lads are Masons, the blokes are for sure misogynists, really they'd love this sort of messaging. For some reason we'll be coming up on another Christmas where a lot of the wider family don't actually meet up

If the Tories lose in Tamworth it's going to take a special effort on their part

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

[Tichtheid]

Possibly a fairly unusual constituency in that it'll have UKIP, Reform and Britain First candidates alongside the Tory.

I saw some vox pops with constituents the other day and while I appreciate that those available and willing to talk to the camera during the working day are often not a particularly representative cross-section of society, this lot seemed considerably more rabid and stupid than their equivalents from other constituencies.

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.

We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.

[sockwithaticket]

The example of Brexit and UKIP is that the Tory party brings the nutters into the fold or steals their turf. I would imagine that's why Suella is making such horrific speeches.

Now the hope would be that their current lurch ever rightward will keep them unelectable because it's too much even for most dyed in the wool Tories. The fear is that we've actually got far more people in this country who are at the least comfortable with far, far right politics than previously thought.

[Sandstorm]

The example of Brexit and UKIP is that the Tory party brings the nutters into the fold or steals their turf. I would imagine that's why Suella is making such horrific speeches.

Now the hope would be that their current lurch ever rightward will keep them unelectable because it's too much even for most dyed in the wool Tories. The fear is that we've actually got far more people in this country who are at the least comfortable with far, far right politics than previously thought.

Cameron was fooled, the stupid, smug twat.

[fishfoodie]

How long will that be unusual?

The scary scenario is that these extremist rights wing parties replace the Tories and become a viable election choice - that may sound alarmist until one looks at the lurch the Tory party has taken in the last dozen years since it came into power.

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.

We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.

I've always thought about it the other way around.

With FPTP, they never got any seats, & the POV of the people who voted for them never got acknowledged, & so eventually got shown to be complete bollox; so their voters somehow felt they were being ripped off.

Do this for a few Election cycles, & you get yet another knob end, disconnected, Tory leader out of Eton+Oxford ignores decades of experience from Countries that actually do Referendums regularly, & who; surprise surprise, decides that he knows better than people who've done this shit for decades, & who have voters who've done this shit for decades.

There were a line of Irish PMs, who'd held & lost Referendums, in exactly this kind of circumstance, who saw the potential outcome, & warned about it; but they were Irish, & so were ignored.

There's a damn good reason that the Irish CS started planning for Brexit the day after Cameron announced the plan for the referendum, & it's not because they had any particular foresight; but more because they understood the capacity for the Tories to fuck it up !

[Insane_Homer]

Summary

Labour has overturned huge Conservative majorities to win Thursday's two by-elections in Mid Bedfordshire and Tamworth

Party leader Sir Keir Starmer said the results showed "people overwhelmingly want change"

Labour emerged victorious in Mid Bedfordshire - Nadine Dorries' seat until she quit as an MP - where the Tories were defending a majority of more than 24,000
The Conservatives were also defeated in Tamworth, where Labour overturned a majority of more than 19,000

The swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Tamworth was 23.9% and in Mid Bedfordshire 20.5%

[C69]

The Tories are well and truly fucked.
Good

[tabascoboy]

That's two pretty massive results, they will still have too many rock solid "Tory till I die" seats but there will be a very large number of very nervous sitting Tory MPs this morning. Just hope it doesn't force them to get their shit together and that they continue this descent

[C69]

That's two pretty massive results, they will still have too many rock solid "Tory till I die" seats but there will be a very large number of very nervous sitting Tory MPs this morning. Just hope it doesn't force them to get their shit together and that they continue this descent

They can't get their shit together. They have schismed politically and are splintered.
Shit loads are now grifting like JRM and the others on GB News and Braverman amongst others on the right are actively challenging Sunak and briefing against him.
Time to rally round the Big Dog.

Like when the red wall crumbled. People are ready to change their alliances. Starmer is Blair lite. The Labour Party are eunuchs and don't give Middle England or anyone any cause for concern.

[dpedin]

Tories are toast now! Expect lots of Tory infighting, more pressure on Sunak, more radical culture wars crap, media and others switching allegiances, more small boats diatribe, more Tory MPs standing down at net GE, etc. It is going to get very messy as the Tory Party goes under - I expect the call for Farage to come riding across the horizon on his white stallion to be even louder now and for the Tory Party to transmogrify into the new NatC Party. Dangerous watershed point for the UK, or should I say Little England?

[colonel]

This thread certainly seems to be having the desired effect.

Kudos

[SaintK]

The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-parents

Fuck off you sore loser!

[SaintK]

So the day after another 47 schools are added to the "falling apart" list, Keegan gets her priorities in order.

The Department for Education said Keegan has written to teaching unions, “inviting them to discuss proposals on a voluntary basis in the first instance” that would keep schools open in some form during strikes. If they failed to reach an agreement, Keegan said she would open a consultation on imposing minimum service levels in schools and colleges, using legislation passed in July.

[dpedin]

So the day after another 47 schools are added to the "falling apart" list, Keegan gets her priorities in order.

The Department for Education said Keegan has written to teaching unions, “inviting them to discuss proposals on a voluntary basis in the first instance” that would keep schools open in some form during strikes. If they failed to reach an agreement, Keegan said she would open a consultation on imposing minimum service levels in schools and colleges, using legislation passed in July.

Distraction move - get folk talking about this instead of the disastrous by election results! It will probably never happen!

[Tichtheid]

while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely

The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.

We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.

I've always thought about it the other way around.

With FPTP, they never got any seats, & the POV of the people who voted for them never got acknowledged, & so eventually got shown to be complete bollox; so their voters somehow felt they were being ripped off.

I'm in favour of some kind of PR, but I remember the Tories clinging on and John Major being in thrall to the DUP. I can see the argument that FPTP means that kind of situation is less likely, but it's not impossible.

Do this for a few Election cycles, & you get yet another knob end, disconnected, Tory leader out of Eton+Oxford ignores decades of experience from Countries that actually do Referendums regularly, & who; surprise surprise, decides that he knows better than people who've done this shit for decades, & who have voters who've done this shit for decades.

There were a line of Irish PMs, who'd held & lost Referendums, in exactly this kind of circumstance, who saw the potential outcome, & warned about it; but they were Irish, & so were ignored.

I remember arguing with an Irish-exiter, she said that the Irish government were just asking the question until they got the outcome they wanted, which was not the way I saw it all. The pig-heads here had all sorts of examples to look at, like you say in Ireland and from experts (we all know about experts) like Prof Michael Dougan of Liverpool Uni, who wasn't advising one way or the other, he was just outlining the potential potholes, all of which have been proven correct.
The internet definition of a fuckwit is someone who will not listen to others and refuses to take advice. They really are fuckwits.

There's a damn good reason that the Irish CS started planning for Brexit the day after Cameron announced the plan for the referendum, & it's not because they had any particular foresight; but more because they understood the capacity for the Tories to fuck it up !

I've gotten past the anger, now I'm just sad at the state we are in

[fishfoodie]

[Paddington Bear]

The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch

[tabascoboy]

Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...

[SaintK]

Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...

.......and Cabinet Minister's in denial. Though she doesn't appear to know a "swing" from a "switch"

[Margin__Walker]

The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch

It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'

True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.

[tabascoboy]

Open season on leadership challenges in four days....but you'd have to think it would be untenable to have yet another PM with no mandate from a GE

Quite a variety of opinions in the Twittersphere on what's going wrong - but mostly:

• Sunak is weak, out-of-touch and the current government do not espouse true Conservative values!;
  
  UK needs hard Trussonomics and cut taxes!
  
  Stop the boats! Leave the ECHR! Deny Multiculturalism! Defy Net Zero!

Very few seem to concern themselves with the effects of Brexit, high energy costs, crisis in the NHS, crumbling schools, failing public services, fraudulent /corrupt use of public finds...

[Hal Jordan]

They will cling on until the very last second, culture warring, poisoning wells and ransacking the public purse so that when they are punted, the country will be so fucked that Labour will essentially be able to put a band aid on the stump of a freshly severed limb, and the electorate, with its famously long memory, will blame Starmer for the continued shithole we live in and go back to The Natural Party Of Government.

[Tichtheid]

[Paddington Bear]

The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch

It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'

True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.

Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out

[sturginho]

Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...

.......and Cabinet Minister's in denial. Though she doesn't appear to know a "swing" from a "switch"

Why aren't these ungrateful voters thanking me for doing such a fucking good job?

[Sandstorm]

The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch

It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'

True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.

Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out

Me too.

[SaintK]

The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch

It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'

True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.

Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out

I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970

[Ymx]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

[Margin__Walker]

It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'

True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.

Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out

I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970

Keir Starmer 1 - 0 Tony Blair

[C69]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

Whereas the level of competence shown by the incumbent government has been.....

Err wait a minute.
Btw I may even go out and vote Labour at the next election.
Something I have not done this century.

Hopefully Starmer will have a big enough mandate to jettison his wishy washy views and deliver a radical vision.

[Insane_Homer]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

[SaintK]

Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out

I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970

Keir Starmer 1 - 0 Tony Blair

[C69]

I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970

Keir Starmer 1 - 0 Tony Blair

Chapeau

[Stranger]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?

[C69]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?

Better the incompetent morons you know.
Stockholm syndrome?

[Ymx]

Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.

They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.

Sorry to derail the thread !

As you were …

So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?

Better the incompetent morons you know.
Stockholm syndrome?

Indeed.

That and the school fees thing.

[C69]

So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?

Better the incompetent morons you know.
Stockholm syndrome?

Indeed.

That and the school fees thing.

Perhaps move to an area with decent State Schools.
Regarding the school fees issue, Starmer needs a kick in the balls for watering down his stance.

[sockwithaticket]

Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.

If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.

Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.

If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.

Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).

Will that include a ban on home schooling?

What about tutoring?

A ban on sending your kids to schools overseas?

A ban on kids from overseas paying to come to school in the UK?

[Tichtheid]

I wouldn't ban private schooling, but I'd definitely go with full VAT, or VAT plus on the fees and also end the charitable status and make them pay tax on their profits. I'd also increase corporation tax and go after tax dodgers big time, they cost a fuck of a lot more than the odd swinger of lead who has a crafty job on the side and claims the dole.

Then we invest heavily in education, all the way up from primary to tertiary level, but including vocational training for those who might not need a degree, or indeed are not suited to that level of education. The chartered engineering institutes were saying that we should be doing this forty years ago.

Universities are on their knees, they haven't had a price bump in fees for over a decade, the government are washing their hands of it and their costs are rising, the only way they can increase their income is by taking in more students and, as per usual, their isn't the reciprocal increased investment the staffing levels to cope with increased numbers.

Yet another area where the Tories have failed miserably since 2010.