npradmin wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:58 am A gentle reminder to everyone, whilst we agree this is an emotive and somewhat polarising subject, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Agree to disagree is fine, but making it personal is not, if you dont like someone elses opinion, there is an ignore function, we suggest you use it.
Shut it, brown-nose cvntC69 wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:46 amWell saidnpradmin wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:58 am A gentle reminder to everyone, whilst we agree this is an emotive and somewhat polarising subject, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Agree to disagree is fine, but making it personal is not, if you dont like someone elses opinion, there is an ignore function, we suggest you use it.
Where is ER?npradmin wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:58 am A gentle reminder to everyone, whilst we agree this is an emotive and somewhat polarising subject, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Agree to disagree is fine, but making it personal is not, if you dont like someone elses opinion, there is an ignore function, we suggest you use it.
Rishi Sunak says al Ahli hospital blast 'likely caused' by missile from within Gaza
The prime minister also announced an additional £20m in humanitarian aid to Gaza.
By Alexandra Rogers, Political reporter @Journoamrogers
Monday 23 October 2023 17:26, UK
Rishi Sunak statement on Israel
Rishi Sunak has said the explosion at a hospital in Gaza was "likely caused" by a missile launched from within the territory and towards Israel.
The prime minister said the government had come to the conclusion "on the basis of the deep knowledge and analysis of our intelligence and weapons experts".
It means the UK is in agreement with the US, where officials said the information gathered so far indicated Israel was "not responsible" for the blast.
Shames me to say it took damned near a minute for the penny to dropC69 wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:16 pm Broken ER he went too far, Irael and the ME threads are too much for him I blame his demise and the destruction of Gaza on
Not sure what Israel hope to achieve with a ground operation. They levelled half of Lebanon before and Hezbollah came out of it pretty much unscathed.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:59 am
Hamas claiming they have 35k troops available right now inside Gaza.
2 weeks ago they apparently had 40k.
https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-isra ... 9878a0cfe4
Complete separation seems to be their goal. It won't completely shut down the rockets, but if they can build a massive wall, no gates, and basically try for peace by ignoring them for a generation or two, I suspect it'll be the only way. Supply nothing to Gaza, no connection etc.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:09 amNot sure what Israel hope to achieve with a ground operation. They levelled half of Lebanon before and Hezbollah came out of it pretty much unscathed.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:59 am
Hamas claiming they have 35k troops available right now inside Gaza.
2 weeks ago they apparently had 40k.
https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-isra ... 9878a0cfe4
They could possibly permanently station troops in Gaza to shut down rocket activity but that means putting them in harm's way.
Hamas are almost certainly counting on a load of air strikes and short ground campaign and then they'll go back to business.
So essentially hand the keys to the prison over to Egypt?Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:13 amComplete separation seems to be their goal. It won't completely shut down the rockets, but if they can build a massive wall, no gates, and basically try for peace by ignoring them for a generation or two, I suspect it'll be the only way. Supply nothing to Gaza, no connection etc.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:09 amNot sure what Israel hope to achieve with a ground operation. They levelled half of Lebanon before and Hezbollah came out of it pretty much unscathed.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:59 am
Hamas claiming they have 35k troops available right now inside Gaza.
2 weeks ago they apparently had 40k.
https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-isra ... 9878a0cfe4
They could possibly permanently station troops in Gaza to shut down rocket activity but that means putting them in harm's way.
Hamas are almost certainly counting on a load of air strikes and short ground campaign and then they'll go back to business.
I have no idea if I'm right. And if I was Israel, I wouldn't much care. No idea if they even plan on blocking sea ports (though i doubt they'd allow Gaza over Israeli airspace). They clearly don't want to be responsible for Gaza, and Hamas clearly don't want them responsible for Gaza either. Accept that, and leave them to it.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:22 am So essentially hand the keys to the prison over to Egypt?
Are they on board with this plan?
I can see the attraction of the idea but don't think it's practical or even remotely humane.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:26 amI have no idea if I'm right. And if I was Israel, I wouldn't much care. No idea if they even plan on blocking sea ports (though i doubt they'd allow Gaza over Israeli airspace). They clearly don't want to be responsible for Gaza, and Hamas clearly don't want them responsible for Gaza either. Accept that, and leave them to it.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:22 am So essentially hand the keys to the prison over to Egypt?
Are they on board with this plan?
I have no doubt that after this, Gaza will receive billions up billions of aid. More than enough to build sufficient industry to become more self sufficient. If they want trade, they will need to develop trade partners, just like every other nation.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:31 amI can see the attraction of the idea but don't think it's practical or even remotely humane.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:26 amI have no idea if I'm right. And if I was Israel, I wouldn't much care. No idea if they even plan on blocking sea ports (though i doubt they'd allow Gaza over Israeli airspace). They clearly don't want to be responsible for Gaza, and Hamas clearly don't want them responsible for Gaza either. Accept that, and leave them to it.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:22 am So essentially hand the keys to the prison over to Egypt?
Are they on board with this plan?
Blockade though?Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:33 amI have no doubt that after this, Gaza will receive billions up billions of aid. More than enough to build sufficient industry to become more self sufficient. If they want trade, they will need to develop trade partners, just like every other nation.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:31 amI can see the attraction of the idea but don't think it's practical or even remotely humane.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:26 am
I have no idea if I'm right. And if I was Israel, I wouldn't much care. No idea if they even plan on blocking sea ports (though i doubt they'd allow Gaza over Israeli airspace). They clearly don't want to be responsible for Gaza, and Hamas clearly don't want them responsible for Gaza either. Accept that, and leave them to it.
Egypt, sea ports.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:33 amBlockade though?Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:33 amI have no doubt that after this, Gaza will receive billions up billions of aid. More than enough to build sufficient industry to become more self sufficient. If they want trade, they will need to develop trade partners, just like every other nation.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:31 am
I can see the attraction of the idea but don't think it's practical or even remotely humane.
They are. I'm suggesting that Israel stops doing that.
Get you. Simply locking them up as before is not a sustainable situation.
I'd argue with the gate to Egypt, and if they actually used the pipes, and money, and concrete, and ambulances and everything else they're given to actually develop their country, they could get by even without sea ports. But I'd let them open anyway. As I said though, Air space would be restricted.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:50 pmGet you. Simply locking them up as before is not a sustainable situation.
You watched the sky clip? It misses out the bit where she says it was hellish and they beat her as they took her to Gaza. Also doesn't mention the fact that her husband is still in Gaza, so I can't imagine she's going to be too rude at the moment.C69 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:36 pm Pretty remarkable interview with one of the released hostages.
Pretty brave of her. I don't know if Netenyahu will respond to her condemnation of the failure of the Government and the security services.
She really is a ray of light in the darkness. Quite extraordinary.
She literally broke bread with her captors.
Wouldn't think Stockholm syndrome has had long enough. But the two released today both left their husbands still held captive.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:41 pm Yep. Other hostages released have been careful because they don't want to put others at risk.
Also Stockholm syndrome.
No I watched all of it. And that her husband was still a hostage and all it entails.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:05 pmYou watched the sky clip? It misses out the bit where she says it was hellish and they beat her as they took her to Gaza. Also doesn't mention the fact that her husband is still in Gaza, so I can't imagine she's going to be too rude at the moment.C69 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:36 pm Pretty remarkable interview with one of the released hostages.
Pretty brave of her. I don't know if Netenyahu will respond to her condemnation of the failure of the Government and the security services.
She really is a ray of light in the darkness. Quite extraordinary.
She literally broke bread with her captors.
The lady featured in this story (and her husband) has worked for years in peace efforts for Palestine, it's hardly Stockholm Syndrome when you're already aligned with a cause, however loosely.Raggs wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:43 pmWouldn't think Stockholm syndrome has had long enough. But the two released today both left their husbands still held captive.Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:41 pm Yep. Other hostages released have been careful because they don't want to put others at risk.
Also Stockholm syndrome.
Ms Lifschitz and her 83-year-old husband, Oded, are known peace activists who helped transport sick people out of Gaza to hospitals in Israel, according to their families.
Oded is a journalist who's worked for peace and the rights of Palestinians for decades, Sharone told the BBC.
According to the National Union of Journalists, he used to work for newspaper Al Hamishmar, and was among the first journalists to report on the massacre in two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut in 1982.
I believe Israel is generally more reluctant to negotiate with terrorists than other countries so doubt if tactics will change, even if Hamas use women and children hostages as human shields. Not that you should belive the figures from Hamas, they are also adamant that they did not kill any civiliansC69 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:25 pm According to Hamas 50 Israeli hostages killed in the decimation of Gaza by the IDF
Will this make any difference to Israeli tactics if their actions directly lead to the death of the HAMAS prisoners?
Crazy shit going on.
