Does a god exist?..

[TB63]

Why?

So that everyone has to observe your particular version of the Great Fairytale?

Not at all. just out of respect. It's never about me.

OK he can leave it, I also believe in the mockers.

Oom, ek sal voorstel dat oom hierdie thread heeltemaal vermy. Hulle doel is om mense - gelowiges - uit the tart, reaksies uit the lok, en dan the probeer verkleineer.

Net soos die vêr linkses, is hulle opinie volgens hulle die regte, en enigste opinie. Hulle baseer hulle opinie op 'n oppervakkige verstaan van die Heilige Boeke; die lees wat beide ateïste en gelowe soos Jehova Getuienisse deel, en baseer hulle ateïsme daarop. Hulle verstaan nie dat alles net swart en wit is nie; hulle ignoreer die filosifïese aspek van geloof.

Moenie hierdie probeer debatteedr nie, en nog minder respek te verwag nie.

Daar is 'n baie goeie rede hoekom Vryemesselaars se belangrikste reël is om nie te praat oor godsdiens of geloof nie. Hierdie thread is die perfekte voorbeeld.

I neither want to taunt or belittle you, nor am I from the far left. Your holy books which you say non believers have a superficial understanding of, are, let's be honest, as valid as fairy tales.
No proof of any god has been found, you base your views on a faith, handed down over generations and used to control people..

[troglodiet]

Not at all. just out of respect. It's never about me.

OK he can leave it, I also believe in the mockers.

Oom, ek sal voorstel dat oom hierdie thread heeltemaal vermy. Hulle doel is om mense - gelowiges - uit the tart, reaksies uit the lok, en dan the probeer verkleineer.

Net soos die vêr linkses, is hulle opinie volgens hulle die regte, en enigste opinie. Hulle baseer hulle opinie op 'n oppervakkige verstaan van die Heilige Boeke; die lees wat beide ateïste en gelowe soos Jehova Getuienisse deel, en baseer hulle ateïsme daarop. Hulle verstaan nie dat alles net swart en wit is nie; hulle ignoreer die filosifïese aspek van geloof.

Moenie hierdie probeer debatteedr nie, en nog minder respek te verwag nie.

Daar is 'n baie goeie rede hoekom Vryemesselaars se belangrikste reël is om nie te praat oor godsdiens of geloof nie. Hierdie thread is die perfekte voorbeeld.

I neither want to taunt or belittle you, nor am I from the far left. Your holy books which you say non believers have a superficial understanding of, are, let's be honest, as valid as fairy tales.
No proof of any god has been found, you base your views on a faith, handed down over generations and used to control people..

You're assuming quite a lot about me, mostly wrong.

For one, I'm not a follower of any organised religion.

Two, you have no idea how I interpret God. I'm am reminded of a philosopher who was asked the same question as the title of this thread. He asked "in order for me to answer the question, please define God". The other person replied, by giving a full definition and description of God (as he sees it). The prophet replied "a god defined is not a God".

I can say the same about this thread. In order to give an answer, the term first needs to be defined: we already had hints of a bearded fairy in the sky", which is obviously hogwash. Yet that it's too often the interpretation of atheists and Evangelical Christians alike - a very literal and simplistic understanding.

As per my advice to OomPB, this is my last response in this thread too.

I am a believer. But don't assume what I believe based on your own beliefs.

[Raggs]

Vague deitiness is really confusing for me. I mean if you've got a book etc, there's something, however poor evidence, to base your beliefs on. But if you're just believing in spirituality, you're just creating your own god(s).

[sockwithaticket]

Well I am a Christian. I have a lot of faith.

Any proof of a god?..

Just to throw a grenade into things, it's called faith, we have faith that God exists, you prove /he/she/they don't and I'll just mention faith (think South Park covered this).

As long as the God squad aren't waking me up first thing Sunday morning they can go believe what ever they won't.

To paraphrase someone - Faith is like a penis, it's alright to have, but you shouldn't be showing it off to anyone who hasn't asked to see it.

I used to be a lot more militantly atheist than I am. As long as theists of various creeds don't try to impose their beliefs on any of the rest of us (that ranges from street preaching to lobbying politicians for policy influence), it's fine, just a bit odd to me.

Alas, too many fail to clear even that incredibly low bar.

[TB63]

I find it amazing, that watching a disaster unfold, ie, an earthquake, which is, "an act of god" that a survivor who's discovered his daughter is alive praise the same god for saving her life, whilst that god has killed his wife, his 5 other children, his parents, his in laws, his dog, destroyed his house, everything he's ever owned, but, praises god... what the actual fuck?..

[Gumboot]

I find it amazing, that watching a disaster unfold, ie, an earthquake, which is, "an act of god" that a survivor who's discovered his daughter is alive praise the same god for saving her life, whilst that god has killed his wife, his 5 other children, his parents, his in laws, his dog, destroyed his house, everything he's ever owned, but, praises god... what the actual fuck?..

Yep, same as the "miracle" of a rubber-boned infant being the only survivor in a plane crash that killed the other 287 people on board.

[Biffer]

I'm an atheist but conscious of what Richard Dawkins said in The God Delusion (arrogant dick that he is).

Something along the lines of if you have a scale from 1 to 7 where one is absolute religious faith, nothing could dissuade you and 7 is the opposite, absolute atheism, nothing could persuade you, nobody could ever be a 7 and hold a logically sound position.

[lemonhead]

I find it amazing, that watching a disaster unfold, ie, an earthquake, which is, "an act of god" that a survivor who's discovered his daughter is alive praise the same god for saving her life, whilst that god has killed his wife, his 5 other children, his parents, his in laws, his dog, destroyed his house, everything he's ever owned, but, praises god... what the actual fuck?..

This is the thing for me, if there is one then what in the living f@ck is He, She or Sam Smith up to.

Are we all one collective Etch A Sketch that still provides a few laughs after so many million years, given a stay of execution - or an odious early draft sitting at the bottom of a fridge somewhere, too embarassing and stinky to throw away? Whatever it is, He's either asleep at the wheel or a bloody sadist.

[Tichtheid]

I find it amazing, that watching a disaster unfold, ie, an earthquake, which is, "an act of god" that a survivor who's discovered his daughter is alive praise the same god for saving her life, whilst that god has killed his wife, his 5 other children, his parents, his in laws, his dog, destroyed his house, everything he's ever owned, but, praises god... what the actual fuck?..

This is the thing for me, if there is one then what in the living f@ck is He, She or Sam Smith up to.

Are we all one collective Etch A Sketch that still provides a few laughs after so many million years, given a stay of execution - or an odious early draft sitting at the bottom of a fridge somewhere, too embarassing and stinky to throw away? Whatever it is, He's either asleep at the wheel or a bloody sadist.

[dpedin]

I'm still waiting for definitive proof that God exists! I would settle for some definitive proof that heaven exists. Until then ...

[Tichtheid]

I would settle for some definitive proof that heaven exists.

I refer the Hon Gentleman to my previous reply on Talisker whisky, add some top quality dark chocolate and a view of the Black Cullin from a warm fireside after a day's walking.

The midges being the proof of the existence of Hell.

[average joe]

Heaven exists, for me it's between my wife's legs.

[PCPhil]

This may help.

[Raggs]

I'm an atheist but conscious of what Richard Dawkins said in The God Delusion (arrogant dick that he is).

Something along the lines of if you have a scale from 1 to 7 where one is absolute religious faith, nothing could dissuade you and 7 is the opposite, absolute atheism, nothing could persuade you, nobody could ever be a 7 and hold a logically sound position.

I guess I'd have to class myself as a 6.5 then? I consider anything I saw that was supposedly evidence of a god, either science superior to what I know, or simply attribute it to going insane (assuming I had enough sanity to still make that assumption). Insanity seems like the far more obvious option than god, every time.

[Biffer]

I'm an atheist but conscious of what Richard Dawkins said in The God Delusion (arrogant dick that he is).

Something along the lines of if you have a scale from 1 to 7 where one is absolute religious faith, nothing could dissuade you and 7 is the opposite, absolute atheism, nothing could persuade you, nobody could ever be a 7 and hold a logically sound position.

I guess I'd have to class myself as a 6.5 then? I consider anything I saw that was supposedly evidence of a god, either science superior to what I know, or simply attribute it to going insane (assuming I had enough sanity to still make that assumption). Insanity seems like the far more obvious option than god, every time.

Point being if you were a seven it's basically a religious position because you'd believe it in the face of all evidence, even if God help myself came down to earth and spanked your ass for you. His argument is that religiously believing in atheism, isn't atheism.

[Raggs]

I'm an atheist but conscious of what Richard Dawkins said in The God Delusion (arrogant dick that he is).

Something along the lines of if you have a scale from 1 to 7 where one is absolute religious faith, nothing could dissuade you and 7 is the opposite, absolute atheism, nothing could persuade you, nobody could ever be a 7 and hold a logically sound position.

I guess I'd have to class myself as a 6.5 then? I consider anything I saw that was supposedly evidence of a god, either science superior to what I know, or simply attribute it to going insane (assuming I had enough sanity to still make that assumption). Insanity seems like the far more obvious option than god, every time.

Point being if you were a seven it's basically a religious position because you'd believe it in the face of all evidence, even if God help myself came down to earth and spanked your ass for you. His argument is that religiously believing in atheism, isn't atheism.

I understand his point, and I'm not going to say nothing would convince me for sure. But I struggle to see what it could be that wouldn't be more likely for me to consider insanity on my own end. But then again, I'm not a god, I guess all they'd really need to do is click their fingers and wish it to be so.

[dpedin]

I would settle for some definitive proof that heaven exists.

I refer the Hon Gentleman to my previous reply on Talisker whisky, add some top quality dark chocolate and a view of the Black Cullin from a warm fireside after a day's walking.

The midges being the proof of the existence of Hell.

That'll do, I'm a believer!